Total posts: 4,222
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Of course, everyone wants the country to re-open as soon as it is safe to do so. But the critical part of that is "as soon as it is safe to do so". Trump wants to do it as soon as he can politically get away with it no matter what reality or doctors have to say about it. He was pushing to have it re-opened by easter. He kept saying it until eventually someone managed to shut him up because that was incredibly stupid.I don't understand the "opening up" argument that Democrats make. I am sure you want the country to open up as soon as possible while still being safe so life can return to normal. So why do you think this is negative?
Trump would let you, you family and friends die so he can re-open his gold club.
Created:
-->
@n8nrgmi
so will u vote for biden? why or why not?
I don't think i would vote for Biden. The leadership of the democratic party is full of corrupt, right wing, corportists. They do not represent what the majority of americans actually want. They represent what their rich, asshole donors want. The only thing they like more than money from their donors, is power. Until they learn that selling out america to rich assholes guarantees they lose power, they will keep doing it forever.
Trump is a trainwreck of a president. But he is too stupid to actually accomplish alot of the terrible right wing bullshit that he wishes he could. If corrupt, right wing democrats stay in control of the democratic party, nothing will ever change and America will stay broken.
The bottom line is that a candidate should try to win over voters and appeal to them. Biden does absolutely nothing to appeal to the left (or the working class in general) and just expects to guilt them into voting for them. That is a shitty strategy. If he actually wanted to win, he should actually try to appeal to people. but he can't do that because he is a right wing, corrupt, asshole.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Exactly. You can't just assume everyone has Covid and shut down the country with 9 confirmed cases
you seem to be missing my point. By the time america had 9 confirmed cases, Trump had already colossally fucked it up. He had months where he was being warned this was coming and he did absolutely nothing about it. He continued doing almost nothing about it right up to the point where it couldn't possibly be denied any more.
The reason there were 9 confirmed cases is because trump's administration didn't have the tests ready. So the dozens or perhaps hundreds of cases that america actually had went unconfirmed. Even though trump had way longer to prepare than places like south korea, he did much less to prepare. And even now, he is scheming to try to get businesses back open so he can stop losing money. He doesn't care how many people have to die to do it either.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Feb 2, 2020: 9 total cases of Coronavirus in USA https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-health-usa-california-idUKKBN1ZX01PShut down travel to China to this day.
No, you are misunderstanding. There were 9 confirmed cases in the US. Trump had not tried to actually have tests available. So if you aren't testing almost anyone for COVID, then there are almost no cases confirmed. At that point, there were probably hundreds of cases in the US. But due to trump's incompetence, the testing was not being done to know that.
Created:
I agree that trump is a disaster. he is a terrible president. But i have no delusions that biden would be a good one either. For one, his record is awful. He has been wrong on most major issues for most of his career. He is further right than hilary clinton was. He won't fix any of americas problems because he doesn't want to. Also, he is very clearly having significant cognitive decline. He can barely get through a prepared speech anymore without forgetting what he's talking about, where he is or other critical details. He has, on many occasions, been unable to remember Obama's name while trying to name drop him.
Even if Biden could win, we would just get a temporary reprieve from insanity. A window of 4 years when the decay and decline of america slowed down. But by Joe's own admission, "nothing would fundamentally change". So after 4 (or maybe 8) years of joe and the corporate democrats doing nothing to help people, they will turn to whatever ridiculous options are available. Maybe it'll be trump again. Maybe it'll be his children and america will be ruled by a dynasty, who knows.
Bottom line, if Joe wins things will continue to get worse for a few years, then we will end up with an even more right wing president, probably one that isn't quite as stupid as trump. If Biden loses, then people will be horrified and perhaps the corporate demcrats will finally learn they can't ignore and spit on the left and have any hope of winning an election. They didn't learn it with hilary, maybe they will learn it with Biden.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
i have no idea what you are talking about. But i don't feel the need to watch propaganda videos made by right wing, racist, assholes. Make an argument or don't pretend like you actually have an opinion on the subject.Why not? Don't you want to have a laugh at the people you want to kill? Hitler did.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
i'm not going to subject myself to videos from racist, homophobic assholes. Make a point for yourself.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
When there is a worldwide pandemic the deficits are obviously gonna increase.
He's been running record defects the whole time. It had nothing to do with pandemics.
You are taking the bad from Corona and stereotyping it with a Trump campaign.
No, i'm describing things he has been doing from day one. You are pretending like he only started doing it yesterday.
He took advice from the WHO, who ultimately hid the cases in China to lessen the impact. When it spread, WHO was forced to take action, that's when crackdowns happen. Trump locked down China earlier than the other countries and if it were not for that, we would certainly have more cases.
By the time he shut down travel to china, it was mostly irrelevant. The US already had tons of cases inside it's borders. At that point, it was already too late. They needed lockdowns to prevent the spread inside the country. And trump was still out telling people it was no big deal. And anyone who said otherwise was pushing "a hoax". Governors refused to shut down events like mardigras and spring break, in large part because trump was telling the country it wasn't something to worry about. As a result the virus spread at those events.
Then again, Bernie bros aren't voting so who do I care? Trump will win 2020
True. Biden is a terrible candidate who likely won't beat trump.
Created:
-->
@Imabench
Reason #2) Bernie didn't bother actually looking around at the surroundings Bernie had the youth vote on lockdown, there's no question of that, but it takes a bigger coalition than just one segment of the population to win the nomination,
You are aware that bernie had the most diverse coalition right? He was leading among young voters, hispanic voters, black voters under 49. these vary be state obviously. The idea that bernie only appeals to young people is a silly argument that MSNBC pundits like to say, but that simply wasn't true.
Reason #3) His platform wasn't practical.Medicare for All, free college education, massive Wall Street Reform..... Bernie's biggest campaign cornerstones were very leftist ideas popular among his base, but the simple truth is that none of these things are even remotely able to be enacted into law.
This is kind of one of america's biggest problems though. People consistently saying that horrible problems can't or shouldn't be fixed. It isn't practical to keep millions from going bankrupt. It isn't practical to keep banks from preying on the poor. This kind of thinking is why Biden can't beat trump.
Reason #4) Bernie couldnt even win Progressive voters.Let me pose this question. In early October, Warren registered at 26.8% while Biden was at 27.0% When Warren began sliding all the way down to 14% two months later in early December, most of her voters did not go to Sanders, they went to Buttigieg
You seem to misunderstand though. the people who switched from Warren to Butigieg weren't progressives. They were upper middle class neo-liberals. They liked the wonky, technocratic plans of warren. They were never progressives though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Every president after Clinton has done it, but Bernie would exponentially increase it
trump is running record deficits right now. He cut revenue and ramped up spending. It's funny how little Republicans care about fiscal responsibility once they get control of the purse strings. I'm sure they will all be crying about the deficit again once they are out of power though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bmdrocks21
sorry, the previous post was a response to you, i forgot to tag you.
Created:
Posted in:
I'm not saying it is an optimal position, but saying that we should continue to export millions of masks that are currently manufactured when we are suffering from shortages is a much worse position. Sure, we could stay on good terms with Canada by saving their citizens instead of ours, but I doubt it is worth it.
this doesn't make sense though. You are talking about disrupting the supply chain needed to make the medical supplies, in order to have more medical supplies. It is self defeating.
Yes, work on slowly bringing back supply lines in the future, but right now, worry about keeping hospitals in America stocked up. I'm really not buying the idea that the only place to get sufficient materials are from Canada,
True, they might be able to find other sources. But there is no telling how long that would take. You will disrupt production for days, maybe weeks or months when that production is critically needed.
even, or that they will stop supplying us (their companies are also capitalists trying to turn a profit).
so you are banking on the Canadian government allowing companies to ship the raw materials to the US while the US refuses to allow any medical supplies sold back to Canada. Why would they do that? They would order those companies to redirect the supplies to a Canadian (or some other country) manufacturer who will sell masks to Canada.
Apparently there was a deal worked out to import over 100 million of its masks from China and continue to export masks to Canada. I'm fine with this development.
essentially, trump completely backed down from his threats because he got some promises that they would import masks.... which they were almost certainly doing already. It sounds like trump reacted like a child and threw a tantrum and they told him what he needed to hear to calm down so they could get back to work.
hey really haven't helped us out recently. They try to dictate how we act through the UN.
umm, that is what the UN is for. It is for people to come together and agree on a course of action. Do you disagree because they don't just automatically do whatever the US says?
They don't help fight terrorism in the Middle East, which is more their problem than ours.
why? In large part the US is creating the problems. From arming the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, to propping up the Shah of Iran, to invading Iraq, the list goes on and on and on.
Not even helping combat predatory Chinese trade, which hurts them as well.
combating it how? The US isn't doing anything to combat it.
They don't even contribute as much to NATO as they AGREED to.
agreed, that agreement needs to be lowered. NATO doesn't need to spend that much. The US needs to spend a hell of alot less.
We have carried their burden long enough- I think we can take care of ourselves.
but "carried their burden" do mean constantly kicking hornet's nests, then insisting the rest of the world obeys, then whine and bitch when other people don't want to go to war for no reason?
These just really show the need for policies that allow us to survive alone. We are better off with allies, but we shouldn't need them.
This is stupid. The reason america is powerful, is because of it's allies. Do you think the US did it alone?
punishing successful people: you are against low taxes
Of course i am against low taxes. low taxes translates as the rich crushing everyone else. The government needs those taxes to provide services to the people. If you cut taxes, you are hurting the poor and the working class and helping the rich. You are bolstering oligarchy.
Shipping out jobs referred to high regulation and corporate taxes, which make America a more expensive business environment to operate in.
Are you advocating for turning americans into sweat shop workers? Because that is what cutting those regulations and taxes would do.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
With allies like the UN and WHO giving a pass to China for helping create and spread Covid19...who needs enemies?
What does this even mean? They didn't create it, that is just an outright lie. And they did far more to control it than the US has.
Trump kept telling everyone it wasn't serious. That it would miraculously disappear as soon as it got warm outside. Then he sat on his hands and did nothing. As a result hundreds of thousands will probably die who otherwise might have survived.
<br>
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bmdrocks21
I am advocating for moving supply lines back to the US through protectionist policies so that they won't be disrupted during a crisis.
and doing that slowly through government policy over years would be one thing. Doing it by order during a crisis that is almost guaranteed to cause further shortages and will certainly piss off America's closest ally, is a shitty way to go though.
I want necessary materials to go to American citizens. I guess you just care about Canadian citizens more than Americans... for some reason.
Canada is america's closest ally. They are supplying the materials needed to make the masks. Without Canadian products, there are no masks. So ordering a company to refuse to sell any masks to Canada, and likely destroying their ability to make masks at all is both counter productive to supplying america with masks as well as screwing over other co-operation that might have come from Canada during this and other crises.
When did you become the hands-off government-type? Being libertarian just to contradict me?
establishing good government policy and implementing it with proper oversight is one thing. Doing a seat of the pants seizure of power that is almost certain to cause as much, if not more, harm than good is a terrible idea.
I'm more concerned about the future implications of all of this and how it proves that we cannot suffer this outsourcing of necessary industries. However, I would say that 3M should certainly give preference to Americans, not necessarily that they should stop sending all masks to Canada. We had a government worker put in an order and offer money because he needed masks for our medical workers. The order was rejected, and that should not be allowed.
even if they sold no masks to anyone else, they couldn't meet the demand in america. Are you advocating for america saying "fuck you" to all of it's allies and screwing them over in a crisis? Because believe what you want, but america cannot survive and thrive without it's friends and allies.
I see. so you want the worst aspects of both. Punishing successful people domestically and shipping out vital industries so that our national security is constantly threatened.
no, that is not even remotely what I am saying. where did you get that idea from?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
only a psychopath or an idiot would think it is "retarded" that everyone should be able to get healthcare.Free bandaids and Tylenol. Human right.
America has a system where if you don't have money, you don't matter. You will get sick and die or bankrupt yourself trying to pay for it. There is literally no upside to this system.
It isn't more efficient. In fact the chaotic insurance system and the price fixing of drug companies and medical providers actually makes it much more expensive.
Since it is punitive to use the system, people avoid seeking care for relatively minor issues. This lets them escalate and get more serious which is then much harder to treat later. This causes more strain on the system.
In a national emergency, a privatized system is completely inadequate to deal with it. there is no reason for health companies to cut people any slack or provide additional services. They only care about profit. They only want to squeeze money out of people. So when we need our healthcare system the most, in America, they are standing by to gouge you or throw you out to die.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
do you realize that most modern countries have some version of medicare for all?And it's inefficient. They are fucking up.
America's system is wildly inefficient. America spends way more per person on medical care.
If you are going to go retard, it's way better to go full retard.
only a psychopath or an idiot would think it is "retarded" that everyone should be able to get healthcare.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
financial benefit of the rich.You misspelled doctors.
1) Most doctors would qualify as rich
2) the system is designed to benefit lots of very rich people. Drug companies, health insurance companies ETC. not to mention the politicians those rich people donate money to. The problem is the million of working class people it bankrupts and the millions of people who can't get care and suffer and/or die needlessly.
It's far, far easier to put a gun to a Doctor's head than putting a gun to every taxpayer's head. Way fewer guns involved.Efficient authoritarianism. Castro style.
do you realize that most modern countries have some version of medicare for all? America is pretty well the only 1st world country that doesn't ensure all citizens get healthcare. But yes, it is everyone else that is wrong. America is right to let poor people die and go bankrupt trying to stay alive.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
If socialist doctors don't believe in free healthcare, then why should I? They should be giving heathcare for free as it's a human right.Greedy doctors shouldn't deny poor people healthcare, right?
the fundamental flaw with your "logic" is that you are proposing that only a tiny group of people should have to sacrifice anything at all. Healthcare is a something every single person needs. It is something we should guarantee every single person gets.
I guess we can compromise here. Poor people can pay their doctors with boxes of macaroni and cheese. That's affordable healthcare for all if doctors refuse to work for free.
or, america could have a real modern medical system and not one where poor people are left to die for the financial benefit of the rich.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
yes, because giving people healthcare is greed.It's funny that doctors in the democratic party still draw a salary. Greedy bastards. Compassionate greed.
What are you talking about? Why would doctors work for free? they have to feed their families too. You know what is a much better plan? Have the government actually pay for people's healthcare so that poor people aren't dependent on charity to be able to live.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
As opposed to the compassionate greed of the left.
yes, because giving people healthcare is greed.... somehow.... while denying healthcare to everyone who can't pay through the nose is somehow compassion.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bmdrocks21
I don't care what this makes me. I am advocating for state coercion of companies if they act against the country's interest during times of crisis, such as a pandemic or war. During the rest of the time, they should be left on their own because state direction of resources is not viable is the long-run whatsoever. In the short term, a little inefficiency is worth it to protect medical personnel.
wow that is completely fucked up. You want government controls so that companies will be forced to disrupt their supply lines and cause people to die during a crisis. But no government controls when companies are cutting corners and killing people during the rest of the time.
Masks are being given to foreign countries in preference to ours, when some cities are running into shortages. Federal employees had the funds and put in an order at 3M and the request was denied. Companies operating in America should have a duty to America first. The argument that "there will be less masks overall" is just a BS statement put out by them to justify making a larger profit by selling to the highest bidder.
no, the materials needed to make the masks come from canada. If the US refuses to allow the masks to be sold to Canada, then not only can they not produce the masks for Canadians, they can't produce any for americans either. You are saying that 3M should stop producing masks for as long as it takes to get a new supplier, which could be weeks or months.
Well, in the past month, I have become more nationalistic, but hardly a communist. Not to big of a fan of the "free market". Still like low taxes and little regulation, but more protectionist and not really tolerant of letting companies sell out America.
i see. so you want the worst aspects of both. Cruel authoritarian control, but also cruel, heartless greed.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
Afghanistan isn't a race. This isn't even an opinion.
says who? There is no internationally recognized definition of what constitutes a race. It is a cultural term, not a scientific one. It has no set meaning.
Afghanistan isn't a race.Mexico isn't a race.China isn't a race.
lol those are countries, not groups of people.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
well at least you are finally showing your true racist colors.Afghanistan isn't a race.
if you want to believe that "Afghani primitive" isn't a racist slur, then you are either delusional, a racist, or just like to be an apologist for racists.
Created:
-->
@ethang5
Your implication here is that with a "functioning immigration system", THEY would become citizens. Does that sound like you think any of "them" would/should be rejected?
My implication is that with a functioning system, there would be a legal method they could use. If you remove any chance of a legal method all you are doing is guaranteeing that they will use an illegal one. You are creating criminals.
Or again here in post #55It seems like the logical solution to what you are complaining about is to make them citizens so they can pay the same taxes as everyone else. Problem solved.Which immigrants are you rejecting HB? Looks like none of them.
lol you seem to be incapable of understanding words. I said give them a legal path they could follow, you choose to believe I said "let all of them move here" which is not what i said at all. You see how you constantly straw man me?
i want to change the laws of the land so that those "foreigners" can become citizens who will then pay into the system too.Which "foreigners"? The illegal immigrants who sneak into the country. Tell us, who are you restricting HB? It is clear you want ALL of them brought in.
Again, I did not say all of them. So if I don't give you an exact number, i must mean everyone on earth? You aren't even trying to understand what I am saying.
But you will lie when pressed because, just like Bernie and the DNC, you want to hide your true intent.
you do nothing but lie and use straw man arguments, then deflect by saying the other person is lying to avoid having to come to grips with the insanity of your own argument.
You think America has an economic problem of not enough tax payers, and that importing busloads of Afghani primitives will solve the problem
well at least you are finally showing your true racist colors.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bmdrocks21
We should be investing in our country to make sure we can also create materials for masks. We shouldn't have to depend on foreign countries for our own safety.
so let me get this straight. you are now advocating for state controls on companies. You realize that makes you a communist right?
Because when there is a global emergency, such as the one we are experiencing, a nation has a duty to look out for its citizens. When it comes down to it, Canada would screw our citizens over to save theirs. If another country is starts stockpiling medical supplies and using it as leverage, as we are seeing China do, then we are entirely at their mercy.
Ok. so your argument is that you should screw over your ally, and therefore reduce the amount of masks available both for them and for Americans because they might theoretically do the same to you? do you see how you are advocating for causing the problem you think you are avoiding?
And the "protectionism" I was referring to was for the future about what I just outlined above. We need to make sure that we protect domestic industries vital to our national safety and ensure that we cannot be left out to dry if something like this happens again. We need to bring our supply chains, especially medical supply chains, back to the US from China by any means necessary.
so you want the government to control what companies are allowed to do, who they can trade with etc. When did you become a communist?
Created:
-->
@ILikePie5
Thats the point. It’s a pipe dream that neither you nor I know.
exactly, you have no idea when, or even if, there is a point where immigrants coming to america would have a negative affect on your life. You simply want to reject all of them out of fear.
And how the hell is that a conspiracy theory when that’s exactly what you believe in lol. Accepting every single immigrant.
and yet more straw man arguments. I have never said America should accept every immigrant.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bmdrocks21
Personally, I have no issue with the tax credits. But that is something that should be pushed in a separate bill. It has nothing to do with helping out Americans affected by this crisis, and its intention was to cause a partisan divide.
It was something that is objectively good for america that republicans refuse to enact due to partisan and corrupt reasons. Why is it a bad thing to try to pass an objectively good thing?
Voter fraud is bad for democracy.
There is no evidence there has ever been significant amounts of voter fraud.
You're missing the point. You can disagree or agree with a lot of what they tried to put in the bill. The point is that a crisis is no time to attempt to slip pork barrel BS into a bill to further your ideology. The bill's sole purpose should be to help Americans as quickly as possible. If the American people want these unrelated things, they will elect you in the future so you can pass them.
you appear to be missing the point. This was extremely relevant to the crisis. Having people go into cramped election booths is a surefire way to spread corona virus. Having people vote by mail is a way to have elections, but not spread deadly diseases. Trump was pretty clear, if you passed a law where everyone could vote easily would destroy the republicans because the only reason they are able to win is by suppressing the vote. Their concern is not voter fraud, it is that people would actually vote.
It was easy to fix to make it accepted by the other side. Simply add oversight and then they have no problem passing it.
Just because both sides are extremely corrupt does not make it acceptable. It makes them both reprehensible that they chose a crisis to try to make their donors richer.
Other items like voter ID need to be taken out entirely. There is no fixing that part of the bill. It doesn't belong there.
of course it does, we need remote voting in order to have safe elections. We need to start implementing this stuff now to have it ready for the next presidential election.
Nice framing. Holding Americans hostage to push tax credits and hoping to increase voter fraud. See? I can frame things too. Doesn't contribute much to the discussion, though.
it doesn't hold americans hostage. It is called negotiating. Trump wants to dump billions into companies that don't need any help. The democrats wanted to invest in technology that would help america's future. But for some reason the democrats are the problem?
And the Democrats are complicit in it. Don't try to make this all about Republicans. I'm angry about it, too. Every day the news is making me much more populist.
agreed. The corporatist dems are fundamentally republicans. Their economic policies are extremely similar (corrupt and corporatist). The only difference between the 2 parties is social policy.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bmdrocks21
3M says that they don't want to jeophardize their trade relations with other countries under an export ban. They would much prefer that we countries get into bidding wars with one another. Canada is worried that their medical workers may be imperiled when an export ban is implemented.
this post is a good example of how short sighted protectionism is. On the surface, people look at this and think "If they didn't export to Canada, then there would be more masks here". But if you stopped to look at it, you would realize that alot of the materials they use to make those masks come from Canada. So if the US won't export any of those masks to Canada, then Canada just redirects those raw materials to a company that will. Now the US has less masks because they don't have the materials needed to make them.
In short, all this would accomplish is hurting Americans, hurting Canadians, and potentially permanently damaging relations with an ally. It is stupid in pretty much every way.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bmdrocks21
Well, I believe it was a bill more tenable than the ones that Democrats offered, with solar and wind tax credits of all things.....
because investing in future technologies is bad.... for some reason.
Also trying to eliminate voter ID.
because in a democracy, people being able to vote without having to jump through hoops is bad.... for some reason....
Republicans' bill was an easy fix.
yeah, shovel as much taxpayer money as possible to billionaires as fast as possible. Super easy. Doesn't fix anything though.
Democrats did the same exact thing- holding Americans hostage to push a stupid agenda.
democracy and investing in new technology.... how evil.
Republicans just wanted a lot of money with no supervision, not attempting to make huge changes to the way our country operates.
they wanted to bleed taxpayers of trillions of dollars so they can funnel it to the richest people in america. That is a horrible plan.
Created:
-->
@ILikePie5
How many foreigners? Enough so that my standard of living decreases, or do you deny that that’s not going to happen?
how many is that? exactly? I'm guessing you have no idea and are just parrotting things you heard on some conspiracy website.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bmdrocks21
The real issue is how politics works. The Republicans made a really good political move that dicked the Democrats. They made a bill that had some good and some bad provisions.
so you recognize that the republicans intentionally created a terrible bill during a national emergency to try to screw over political rivals? They are literally letting americans die and be financially ruined for political points. I'm guessing that doesn't make you reconsider your support for them for even a second.
<br>
Created:
-->
@ethang5
Surely you know we can't do every good? Surely you know that America doesn't have enough money to do all the good there is? Your comments here implies you don't.
literally no one has ever argues that america does. That is a ridiculous straw man argument.
Here is what you liberals never address. First, it isn't your money. It isn't "free" money. Someone worked for that money and it belongs to them.
agreed. But that person benefited massively from things like schools, roads, protection by police, the military etc. Taxes are a necessary part of every society to pay for the services we all need.
Second, since it is true that the resource is limited, the priority should be on American citizens, not foreigners.
ok... but this debate is about bring immigrants into america. They then are Americans, not foreigners. They then pay into the system too and then we can do more good and help more people.
Third, when you are pressed, you start talking about "legal immigrants", but throughout your prior argument, it is obvious you see no immigrants as illegal.
i understand the concept, the problem is that when the immigration system has been intentionally broken, the line becomes very blurred. Most illegal immigrants would have absolutely done it legally if there was a functioning immigration system they could have used. But there isn't. If you want to reform the immigration system so that these people can actually do it legally, then I would be onboard for stricter rules around doing it illegally.
You disrespect the laws of the land, and want to force citizens to pay for illegal foreigners who break the law.
no, i want to change the laws of the land so that those "foreigners" can become citizens who will then pay into the system too.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Imabench
I think both sides were just too chicken-shit to actually try to question whether or not an industry should get bailout money. This was a bill that arguably needed to be passed more than any in history, it would almost be career suicide if someone tried to hold it up because of an objection they had over singular provisions in it.
but the dems did oppose it. They forced the republicans to make concessions. The concessions they wanted were just stupid. They made no attempt to put any curbs on the blatant theft from taxpayers or put in stronger measures to help working people. The issue isn't that they couldn't have opposed those things, the issue is that they do not oppose those things. Both the democrats and republicans believe the same things. They're both corporatists.
Created:
-->
@ethang5
Liberals believe that resources are limited because you selfishly want to spend YOUR money on YOUR family instead of on little Fatima from the Congo.Their solution?
lol it's sad how short sighted you are. I am talking about bringing in legal immigrants, increasing the workforce and therefore increasing the tax base. It is good for the economy, it is good for the country, and yes it also is good for the immigrants. Everyone benefits. You just want to scream about taxes and make semi racist comments.
1. A reasonable level of taxes is when you have nothing left.
america's top tax bracket has been falling for decades. No one is asking for anything unprecendented. They are asking for the tax rate to back to what it was not that long ago. But you just want to whine about "we'll have nothing left!!!"
2. Any "good" left undone while the taxpayer has income remaining is an immoral situation.
this is just stupid. no one has ever said that.
3. Liberals think taxable income is an unlimited resource.
no one thinks that.
It is constrictive to have to follow the boards rules when talking to people with such blindingly stupid and unfair ideas.
lol you repeatedly say things that are blatant lies, and straw man arguments, then call people stupid for thinking things that you are pretending they said. This is just sad.
Created:
-->
@Imabench
She made like one concession about free college tuition and then hardly brought it up on the campaign trail afterwards.
true, she was a truly terrible candidate that hard a hard time even pretending like she gives a shit about average Americans.
The truth is that Bernie shamelessly tried to plead to superdelegates to support him over Hillary, after initially starting out the campaign decrying the power Superdelegates had in the first place, and he flipped his script to currying their favor after it became clear that the majority of actual people supported Hillary over Bernie.
Bernie campaigned hard to abolish super delegates entirely. Hilary's team insisted on keeping them. Why is it shameless to try to use a tool that your corrupt opponent insisted on keeping?
Under those conditions, being stubborn is an absolute requirement.Opinion and a Concession to the original argument.
fair enough. I concede that he, like most people, can be stubborn. However as this is a virtue, not a failing, it still doesn't really support your argument.
Opinion and also Incorrect. Biden has released a plan for Covid 19 https://joebiden.com/covid19/
lol, so some paid staffers wrote out points that biden is completely incapable of getting across to people. The fact that his team has done the work for him and he can't even manage to read it in a way that looks like he knows what he is talking about is even more damning.
Created:
-->
@Imabench
My guess is incredible selfishness on Bernie's part based on 3 pieces of evidence:
You appear to be misreading all three pieces of information though.
1) He desperately wants power.... In 2016 towards the end of the Dem Primary
in 2016 he stayed in to force her to make concessions to actually do things to try to appeal to the left. Once she made those concessions he campaigned hard for her. It wasn't him looking for power. It wasn't him trying to hurt hilary. It was him trying to get a win for the people of america.
2) He's stubborn and has been made more stubborn thanks to his position...... Twice now Bernie has become the posterchild of the progressive left-wing faction of the entire Dem party.
of course he is stubborn. The democratic party has been completely ignoring the left for decades. They assume the left will vote for them because the alternative is worse. So both parties ignore them and shift right. Under those conditions, being stubborn is an absolute requirement.
3) He's an opportunist...... With the current pandemic gripping the country, Bernie sees this less as a historic problem that unites people to try to work together to defeat this
this is a complete misreading. Sanders has done nothing to attack Biden. Almost all of his energy lately has been to spread awareness and fundraise for COVID causes. He has done 10 times more to help with this crisis than biden has. You want to frame this as everyone should line up and unify behind biden. But he has no plan, and even if he did he couldn't get it out in a coherent way.
Created:
-->
@fauxlaw
What you perceive is entirely on you. I cannot climb into your head and tell you what to see, or what you see, hear, smell, etc. No, I'm not joking.
oh, well that is unfortunate. If it was a joke, it wouldn't be funny, but at least it would make sense. As it is you just seem entirely delusional about the world and how it works.
Created:
-->
@fauxlaw
How is it splitting hairs, exactly, when, as I've demonstrated, even by example, that your claim of present tense is really future tense, whereas the qualification for future tense is not present tense? Confused? That's on you.
If you are falling off a cliff and have no method of stopping it, thinking of the situation that will result when you hit the ground is perfectly reasonable. We will hit a recession. That is guaranteed. So saying it is wrong to discuss our situation in accurate terms because the inevitable is still playing out is splitting hairs.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
The fact that he can string a few sentences between the insanityStill better than Biden.
no. Biden is also incompetent. But at least he isn't openly corrupt. Trump is raking in millions through graft and corruption. He brags about it. He fairly openly makes national foreign policy decisions because of it. At least Biden keeps his corruption on DL.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
You misspelled illegal immigrant yet again.
You think that there aren't millions of americans who need government assistance to live in modern america? The problem is current economic system, not immigration.
<br>
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
If all I saw was an endless montage of CNN gaffes, I would think Trump was insane too.
ok, you are having a 5 minute conversation with someone. During this conversation he tells you he wants to kill you and eat your pancreas. At the end of your conversation do you think, "well it was only 1 crazy thing, everything else was fine"? Or do you think, "holy shit he is insane"?
Trump says crazy ass shit almost every day. The fact that he can string a few sentences between the insanity does not diminish the insanity.
Created:
-->
@fauxlaw
it cannot yet be a topic of conversation as if it was upon us. It is acknowledged that a depression is worse than a recession; therefore, it has more severe qualifications, as noted.
Your kind of splitting hairs. You are arguing that although we know that the definition of recession is going to happen, you don't want us to use that word to describe the situation until those things happen. You are just delaying our ability to accurately describe our situation.
The market has taken the biggest beating it has taken since the great depression, by some metrics it is worse than the great depression. Trying to keep people from describing it is not particularly constructive.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
The point is that we made many of these safety nets at a time when a tiny percentage of the population much less than 10% needed that safety net, so we can afford it.That's certainly not the case anymore considering the deficits in EVERY sanctuary city. The country isn't designed to have a "safety net" for over 25% of the population.
You are absolutely right. The current economic system in America is unsustainable. Right wing economics have devastated the middle class and forced more and more americans into relying on handouts to be able to stay alive. That is why massive reforms are desperately needed. That is why Sanders is the best candidate to be president.
Created:
-->
@fauxlaw
Panders? What's wrong with taking personal initiative to change your paradigm? If you're not rich, why not? Change your paradigm. Be rich instead of fighting the condition.
i honestly can't tell if you are joking. Do you think an economic system designed to extract wealth from people and concentrate it in as few hands as possible allows most people to just choose to be rich? It is so childish that i seriously hope you're joking.
Few Presidents have the gift of extemporaneous oratory. Does that detract from their ability to get the job done?
Of course it does. People have no idea what the hell he means. There is an entire industry on television based around translating what he says. IE trumps says something insane, stupid, borderline criminal, and people get paid a fortune to say "what trump really meant was..."
Trump told americans that COVID-19 was no big deal. It was a hoax. It would miraculously disappear. As a result america took little to no action to prepare. As a result hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of americans will die. One day he said it was an emergency, the next he wants to open businesses by Easter. His inability to have a clear message is literally killing people.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
so there are limited services they can access, what is your point? It seems like the logical solution to what you are complaining about is to make them citizens so they can pay the same taxes as everyone else. Problem solved.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
so there are limited services they can access, what is your point? It seems like the logical solution to what you are complaining about is to make them citizens so they can pay the same taxes as everyone else. Problem solved.
Created:
you explained your opinion, I'm not interested in getting into a back and forth with you so trying baiting someone else. The videos are proof enough for me as to the mental state of public officials.
agreed. And if you didn't know trump was president, watching him and watching a mental patient would be virtually indistinguishable.
Created:
-->
@Vader
That's literally Bernie Sanders. Sanders will destroy all the middle class with taxes and put them in large sums of debt.
that is the exact opposite of Bernie Sanders' plan. The current system crushes the middle class by corporate greed. Hundreds of thousands of people per year declare bankruptcy because of medical bills. If bernie sanders' plans were realized that number would be pretty much 0. No one would need to sink themselves is 10's or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt in order to get an education. Sanders' plans would save the middle class
And good thing so now Trump will be president and the middle class can be saved instead of being screwed by hypocrites
but things aren't getting better for the middle class. They are getting worse. Predatory companies are squeezing the life out of people while trump and the other billionaires sit back and collect all the money. He is running the economy into the ground.
Bernie bros have been attacking Whoopi Goldberg with terrible racist and sexist terms. The tolerant left of the Bernie bros really showing itself.
the bernie bro is a common misconception. It isn't a real thing. Bernie has alot of supporters and they are very passionate. Some of them are abusive online. But there are abusive people online about literally every topic. You can find people being abusive over my little pony. So pretending like people being jerks online is, in any way, unique or different for bernie sanders' campaign is a lie intended to discredit people who are trying to help people instead of sell out to the rich.
Bernie should be in the Senate fighting Covid, not spreading his communist agenda to the election
lol nothing about his plan is communist.
just proves how selfish he really is
yes, because spending your entire life fighting for the working class and the poor is selfishness....
Man owns 3 houses and claims the elite are controlling the USA when he is part of the elite
The man has worked his whole life to own 2 homes and a cottage. I have no idea why you think that somehow undermines his credibility in any way at all. He has fought for the poor and working class of this country his whole life, while republicans have spent their whole lives selling out to the rich and screwing over the poor at every opportunity.
Created:
i explained reality. You explained a fantasy world that exists inside your cult. We disagree on which world we are talking about.we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
what? They can't access most of the services that make up the social safety net. They pay taxes into services they can't use.Lol, tax the poor! Like any party has ever done that. They wouldn't be illegally pillaging our social safety net if it cost them more to do it.
Coyotes take in far more money than the IRS ever will from the wetbacks. Over 10,000 dollars a trip per person. Maybe if the politicians used the IRS to tax the poor as they do in Nordic nations, we wouldn't have an illegal problem.
lol, if there was a functioning immigration system then they could simply do it legally without any need for a coyote. Then they would be paying taxes like any other citizen. Everyone wins (except criminals and corporations that feed on illegal immigrants)
Created: