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@FLRW
As far as the Eric Garner case is concerned, Garner was arrested and then one of the police officers then used his hands to push Garner's face into the sidewalk. Garner is heard saying "I can't breathe" eleven times while lying face down on the sidewalk.The police sergeant called an ambulance and indicated that Mr. Garner was having trouble breathing, but reportedly added that he "did not appear to be in great distress". Garner lay motionless, handcuffed, and unresponsive for several minutes before an ambulance arrived, as shown in a second video. After Garner lost consciousness, officers turned him onto his side to ease his breathing. Garner remained lying on the sidewalk for seven minutes. When an ambulance arrived, two medics and two EMTs inside the ambulance did not place Garner on oxygen, administer any emergency medical aid or promptly place him on a stretcher. According to police, Garner had a heart attack while being transported to Richmond University Medical Center He was pronounced dead at the hospital one hour later.See the difference?
How is this related to the fact that it was labeled a homicide. Again: the ruling of a homicide by a medical examiner doesn’t mean Chauvin is guilty. It’s as simple as that. Burden of proof is on prosecution not the defense.
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@HistoryBuff
You seem to be conflating the words "Homicide" and "murder". They aren't the same thing. Homicide isn't a crime. It is a cause of death.Any time a person kills another person, it is homicide, but it isn't always a crime. If someone tries to murder me and I kill them in self defense, I haven't committed a crime. But I have a committed a homicide.In those cases you referenced, the homicide was ruled to not be a crime (self defense etc). That is why they weren't convicted of any crimes. But they both still committed a homicide. That was never in question.
Again: so what’s your point?
Based on the report you can’t determine guilt. Burden of proof is on the prosecution not defense. “Beyond a reasonable doubt.”
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@HistoryBuff
homicide means one person killed another. In this case, Chauvin killed George. What is unclear about that?
I literally don’t see your point on this argument. If homicide rulings mean so and so killed so and so, then how are the cops in the Eric Garner and Michael Brown free?
Both of their deaths were ruled homicides and both officers walked. Wanna explain that to me?
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@FLRW
Homicide is the act of one human killing another. A homicide requires only a volitional act by another person that results in death, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.
That’s not the medical definition of homicide. I defined the medical definition on the previous page. Medical examiners found homicides for Michael Brown and Eric Garner. Both officers walked.
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@Greyparrot
@HistoryBuff
ok. but that is completely irrelevant to this case. Homicide means the cop killed them. whether that is justified or not isn't something the coroner considers. That is for the police and/or the courts to decide.Both autopsies have confirmed that Chauvin killed George. Are you conceding that fact?
You’re admitting that homicide doesn’t mean that Chauvin killed Floyd and then proceed to say Chauvin killed Floyd. #Logic
Homicide is just a classification used when the other 4 aren’t applicable.
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@FLRW
You all know that In 2013, the family of 28-year-old David Smith successfully sued Minneapolis, Minnesota for $3.075 million, the "second-largest for police misconduct" in the city's history, when the Smith family's legal team—cited evidence from a Minneapolis police officer's body-worn camera (BWC) showing that the officers had used the "controversial" police technique called prone restraint to subdue Smith. According to a June 1, 2013 Star Tribune article, MPD officers had "forced Smith onto his stomach, then placed a knee in his back and held him down for about four minutes, which the family attorneys said made it impossible for him to breathe."[
You conveniently forgot to mention that the officers were never charged in this case
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@Danielle
That's cool, I never said anything was your fault lol. I was responding to your quip about how "the feds can try" by agreeing their efforts have often been historically futile.
Eh not all the time 🤷♂️
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@Greyparrot
the hands up oneYour signature
👍
You gotta access DART from your phone and then type it straight from your phone
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@Greyparrot
how do you do that emote?
Which one lol
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@Greyparrot
Compression with no bruising...lol...
The key here is the fact that Floyd was saying he couldn’t breathe even before he got put to the ground, which is a classic symptom of fentanyl confirmed by every medical witness the state put on. He was clearly delirious based on the shop owner’s account. He was actively resisting and couldn’t balance himself. It’s pretty simple. Either Floyd was suffering from cardiac arrest before he ever got put to the ground in which case the officers couldn’t do much about it or, he was ODing on fentanyl causing his brain to think he couldn’t breathe which caused cardiac arrest.
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@HistoryBuff
what? is andrew baker dead?
I meant George Floyd. Provide sources that state the medical examiner Andrew Baker stated in his report that George Floyd died to asphyxiation.
You are trying to distract by throwing out very specific medical terms.
That’s how courts work in case you didn’t know.
It's like if a guy was stabbed to death and some idiot just kept saying "the autopsy confirms he wasn't shot, so i'm innocent!".
This analogy doesn’t even make sense lol. The autopsy would state that he died because of cuts and like and therefore the guy would be guilty. Here you have the fact that George Floyd didn’t die because of asphyxiation but rather cardiac arrest. You can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin kneeling on him caused that when Floyd had 3x the OD level of fentanyl + methamphetamine + alcohol + he had adrenaline rush because he was being arrested.
Especially if you consider that Chauvin has pulled the same maneuver in the past and nothing happened then - he was neither reprimanded by his superiors, nor did anyone die.
2 Autopsies confirmed that Chauvin killed George. Why are you splitting hairs about the precise medical terminology of how he killed him?
Only 1 autopsy matters in this case and that’s the one done by Andrew Baker.
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@HistoryBuff
The finding of the autopsy is that he died as a result of "restraint, and neck compression" and that Geroge died by homicide. How is this unclear?
Because I don’t think you understand what homicide means in a medical sense. We know for a fact that Floyd did not die due to asphyxiation or strangulation because Baker said as much.
Homicide only “one of five categories medical examiners use to label causes of death and it indicates that “someone’s intentional actions led to the death of another person,” says Gregory G. Davis, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners. The other four labels are suicide, accident, natural, and undetermined, Davis says.
So in a medical examiner’s report “homicide” just means one person intentionally did something that led to the death of someone else. It doesn’t mean the death was intentional and it doesn’t mean it was a crime.”
This was the case in both the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. Both were labeled homicides by the medical examiners but both officers walked.
Still glad to see you’re walking back on your asphyxiation claims tho
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@Greyparrot
The defense Attorneys haven't even gotten started.
Ya I know. He deserves to walk.
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@Greyparrot
It’s horrible how much the media have controlled the narrative in this case. I pray the jury gets the same cognitive dissonance that’s gonna arise in the public
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@Vader
If you fall down and break all your legs and can't get up and I shoot you, is that murder?
Cause of death would be a bullet in this case lol. You’re not even making sense
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@Greyparrot
His friend, Morries Hall, the drug dealer who is now implicated in his death because he gave Floyd the drugs that he then swallowed in an attempt to destroy evidence is pleading the fifth. This isn't over.
There’s video of Floyd having a white substance in his mouth when the cops came
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@Vader
Even so, the proper conduct of a police officer is not kneel down on the victim for 9 minutes straight.
Time limit is never specified in training. Plus he’s done the same thing without incident in the past and no one said anything to him.
This was a misconduct that wouldn't have escalated if properly brought down and not be held down for 9 minute.
It wouldn’t have escalated that far if Floyd didn’t resist like his buddies.
It is third degree murder even if he had drugs since the ultimate factor was him passing out on the ground.
You need to prove beyond a “reasonable doubt” to convict on these charges. Clearly that’s not the case here.
Did he have drugs? Yes. Was he delusional? No I severly doubt he was that delusional.
He literally said he couldn’t breathe before he was even on the ground. That means he was suffering from cardiac arrest at that exact time. The medical doctor testified that administration of Narcan wouldn’t have done anything if he started suffering cardiac arrest.
He could properly hold a conversation. Either way, the cops involved are guilty of third degree murder. Floyd was unarmed and everything yet they held him to his neck for 9 minutes despite him being unable to breathe.
He was actively resisting for at least half the time. The other half was when Chauvin waited for EMS to arrive, something he and other officers have done in the past. Cause believe it or not people under arrest fake passing out.
The autopsy reports suggests that it was because of the knee that this is what led to his death as he was functional before.
Citation? The State Medical Examiner Andrew Baker did NOT say that anywhere in his report.
You saw the footage in the store. He didn't seem to be delirious and walked around fine.
He was clearly delirious lol. The shop owner who he handed the fake 20 dollar bill too said he looked like he had been drinking lmao
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@Vader
Not according to the Pathologist. So no I really don't think he was that delusional
Bruh that was literally according to the state medical examiner Dr. Andrew Baker lmfao. He clearly stated that Floyd did not die of asphyxiation or strangulation. It doesn’t get more clear than that.
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@Vader
Yes however he was not acting under the influence at all. He was still able to speak and hold a conversation audibly. If you are drunk to the point of blacking out, you do not speak that audibly. I'd imagine the same with whatever drugs were found. The triggering factors was the kneeling on the neck
No one ever said he was drunk. He was high on drugs and was clearly delusional considering he started saying he couldn’t breathe before they brought him to the ground - an actual symptom of fentanyl overdose.
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@Vader
This article uses the same report you had from an actual Pathologist diagnosing the case. You are not a Pathologist
The medical examiner said Floyd didn’t die of asphyxiation or strangulation. He died of cardiac arrest which was likely caused by the high amount of drugs, pre-existing heart disease, and stress caused by arrest.
I didn’t say this, the prosecution said this in their own criminal complaint
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@Vader
Nah. There wasn't evidence of drugs in his system to the point of OD'ing. Even so, the police officer knelt on his neck for 9 minutes. Even someone not doped up would probably die
Bruh he had 3x the OD level of fentanyl in his system lmfao
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@HistoryBuff
You haven’t cited any sources that state that Andrew Baker, the state’s medical examiner died due to asphyxiation.
Rather the prosecution themselves in their criminal complaint bring up the fact that Bakers “findings include that Floyd did not die from asphyxia or strangulation.”
Other “experts’” opinions are irrelevant since they didn’t do the autopsy or they’re biased beyond belief which is the case of the Floyd families person who did the autopsy.
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@RatMan
I’m not going to reply to you unless you unblock me.
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@Greyparrot
HB says the evidence exists, it's just not available to us peons.Meanwhile, court documents show multiple times no evidence of strangulation from the autopsies.how do you do that emote?
It’s pretty funny lol. The state is trying to discredit their own medical expert who conducted the autopsy. Normally it’s the defense that tries to do that.
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@HistoryBuff
Again, your argument is that multiple medical professionals agree that Chauvin killed george. But you choose not to believe them. That isn't based on facts or information. You are just choosing to believe what you want to believe.
Nice way to dodge. If you claim that Floyd died of asphyxiation, why is that NO WHERE in the autopsy?
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@Double_R
If you actually understood anything about climate change you'd know that it's effects are that once in a generation events continue to increase in frequency.
You’re actually out of your mind lol. No one makes a business decision that would take a generation to even come to fruition lol
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@Danielle
That's how sanctuary cities and counties responded to Trump's immigration policies :)Not only did the feds make little to no dent in the amount of undocumented people here, but now New York lawmakers want to give billions of dollars to undocumented immigrants including former inmates that have been excluded from federal aid packages lol. Unreal.
Not my fault King Cuomo like illegals more than actual Americans 🤷♂️
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@Double_R
And you claim you’re not a republican?
Why’re you assuming people’s political identities? You must be racist. Not to mention ableist.
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@Greyparrot
I wish there wasn’t Global Warming in Texas. Definitely ruined my summers when I was a kid cause it was too hot to play outside
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@Double_R
This is literally what the term “climate change” means
So a once in a generation event is climate change? Wow. We can’t tell the weather for tomorrow and you’re telling me people should’ve predicted this 10 years ago? Gimme a break.
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@Greyparrot
Like I said before, there are hundreds on hundreds of hours of bodycam footage showing suspects not overdosing on Fentanyl being restrained with a knee to the BACK of the neck being able to breathe just fine with no risk of death.
You must’ve watched a lot of Cops like me 🤡
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@Greyparrot
None of them would be able to cope with the consequences of living in a free State.
Makes sense considering they live under the governance of people like King Cuomo.
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@Greyparrot
I love people who think they know more about Texas than a lifelong Texan lol. I’d like to see any of the Northern liberal shills come survive a Texas summer.
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@Double_R
111 lives lost was the result of not weatherizing their power grid. There is nothing about enforcing that which causes people to not be able to make a single life decision.
You come here down to Texas this summer and see if you think it was necessary to do so. As someone who’s lived in Texas for literally 95% of my life, this was literally a once in a century event. Could it have been prevented? Sure. Could anyone who’s living in Texas have predicted this? Hell fuckin no lol.
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@HistoryBuff
It would still be a breach of procedure. But even if it weren't, that argument ends the second he stops resisting. Chauvin kept doing it long after this point until he had killed him. That's murder.
Then you my friend do not know police procedure.
If you said that, you would be lying. His own supervisor testified there was no justification for Chauvin doing this.
Have you considered his supervisor may have a political agenda and his testimony goes against published pieces that detail how prone restraint is legal and is taught during training?
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@Earth
@Greyparrot
@MisterChris
@WaterPhoenix
Endgame is up
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@Lunatic
@Vader
@whiteflame
@oromagi
@Speedrace
Endgame is up
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MAFIA WIN
Town in this game was disastrous. Three No Lynches in a row should never happen especially if it’s not MYLO. I don’t understand how there was not a lynch between Oro or Supa cause it was obvious one of them was scum. Role Cops should immediately be suspicious especially if there’s a Cop counterclaiming.
The second issue was the fact that if y’all didn’t even consider that if you lynched Grey, there wouldn’t be a town protective role in this game especially with a Judge and a Mafia NK present. Grey didn’t defend himself either which just hurt town, but the entire situation could be avoided if we lynched people earlier.
A third thing was that no one asked for justifications and there wasn’t any analysis into them either. Speed’s justification was so bad that I’m disappointed the political junkies in the game didn’t call it out right away. What Senator implement[s] the systems that track down domestic terrorists. That’s the job of the Department of Homeland Security, not a Senator. Committees are in charge of oversight, not implementing systems.
Overall Town was extremely lazy and so inactive that they deserved to lose this game. Even after the 3 No Lynches, they had an opportunity to win but it failed to materialize.
The theme was the two youngest senators vs everyone else. I was sad that there wasn’t more thematic analysis in the game cause that surely would’ve let to criticism of justifications and Grey’s role being justified.
In terms of balance, I thought this was pretty well balanced. In hindsight though I’d tweak the Gladiator role a bit to reset the time clock by a period of time like 36 hours or something.
MAFIA:
Speed - You are Jon Ossoff from The Peach State, also known as Georgia. As the Senior Senator from Georgia, you were elected during a runoff against the incumbent David Perdue. Prior to politics, you worked on a documentary production about corruption in foreign countries along with the staging of a play in Sierra Leone. Your political career started when you ran against Karen Handel in the Georgia 6th Congressional District Special Election losing by about three points; however, in your Senate victory, you carried the same district to victory. Throughout your career, you have experienced everything and worked in different areas from politics to film and now sit on a range of committees in different areas of the economy. You are the MAFIA SUPER-JOAT. Your abilities are as follows: 1x Strongarm, 1x Framer, 1x Lawyer, 1x Roleblocker, 1x Janitor, 1x Scout, 1x Lookout. You win with the Mafia.
Supa - You are Josh Hawley from The Show Me State, also known as Missouri. As the junior senator, you easily defeated corrupt Claire McCaskill 5.8%. Now with the retirement of Roy Blunt, you will become the senior senator from Missouri after the 2022 Senate Election. Prior to being the Senator, you were elected as the Attorney General of Missouri in 2016 by a landslide margin against Teresa Hensley, while Roy Blunt only won by like 3% against probably my favorite Democrat, Jason Kander. Throughout your tenure as the Attorney General, you were the leader of numerous investigations to determine the roles of different actors such as Big Tech, Former Governor Eric Greitens, and Opiod Manufactures in possible crimes against the people. You are the MAFIA STALKER. Each night you may visit another player. You will learn the role of that player. You win with the Mafia.
Fake Role: 1x Tracker
TOWN:
Oromagi - You are Richard Durbin from The Prairie State, also known as Illinois. You are the senior senator, first elected in 1996 and currently the Senate Majority Whip for the Democratic Party in the United States Senate. During your tenure in the Senate, you have never won by less than 10% against your Republican opponents even during wave years such as 2024, because of the help of Cook County, aka Chicago. Even though your state is known for corruption with something like 3 of the last 4 Governors being jailed for corruption, you’re the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Your primary job is to vet AG nominees and judicial nominees selected by the President to ensure they haven’t committed any shenanigans.You are the ODD-NIGHT COP. Each odd night you may investigate a player and will learn whether they are innocent or guilty. You win with the Town.
Lunatic - You are Cory Booker from The Garden State, also known as New Jersey. You are the junior senator, even though you should be the senior one cause Menéndez should’ve lost. In 2020, you ran for President, but were utterly defeated in the primaries, but luckily you were up for reelection and won against Rik Mehta by 16% in a landslide. You’re pretty much the male version of Kamala Harris, not just cause you’re black and young, but policy wise y’all have a lot in common too. Maybe it’s cause you had your Spartacus moment during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing that you didn’t get the nomination for President, who knows? You are the 1X GLADIATOR. Once per game you can publicly announce that you are challenging a certain player, which will cause only you and that player to be votable on that day. When this ability is used, all votes are reset barring a lynch threshold already being reached. You may not use this ability at LYLO. You win with the Town.
Whiteflame - You are John Cornyn from The Lone Star State, also known as Texas. As the senior senator, you were first elected in 2002 against Ron Kirk by 12%. In 2020, you won a comfortable victory against MJ Hegar, who didn’t even stand a shot even though the media preached about a Blue Texas. Funny enough your seat belonged to the Senate Majority Leader, Vice President, and President Lyndon B. Johnson, which was the last time the seat went Democratic. Prior to your senate career, you were the Attorney General of Texas, and even before that, you were a Justice on the Texas State Supreme Court. In fact you were even considered for a Supreme Court nomination, which luckily didn’t happen because you’d probably be John Roberts 2.0. You are the 1X JUDGE. One night you may choose to kill someone who was on the lynch bandwagon during the most recent day phase. You win with the Town.
Earth - You are Ben Cardin from The Old Line State, also known as Maryland. As the senior senator, you were first elected in 2006 against Michael Steele, by 10%, the smallest margin you’ve ever won by. The most interesting fact about you is that you became the youngest Speaker of the House of Delegates of Maryland during the early part of your career. As the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, you played a key role in the three COVID Stimulus Packages to help small businesses during the coronavirus pandemic even though Democrats are practically against small businesses. You are the BUSINESSMAN. Each night you may give another player a target. If the person successfully lynches their target the next day, they will be rewarded with a prize that you select from (1x Tracker, 1x Cop, 1x Watcher). You win with the Town. [Action Fails if either target dies]
Greyparrot - You are Susan Collins from The Pine Tree State, also known as Maine. As the senior senator, you are quite literally one of the most impressive politicians I’ve ever seen, even though I think you’re a RINO. Literally everyone thought you’d lose to Maine House Speaker Sara Gideon (well, except me), but you pulled off the victory by 9% avoiding ranked choice. Not a single poll showed you ahead of Gideon, but you destroyed her. It was mainly due to your bipartisanship, which I have to commend you for, but you’re still a RINO. I hate indecisive people, so pick a freakin side. You’re always the key vote, maybe you’re just an attention seeker. You are the 2x MEDIATOR. Each night you may target another player and choose to either protect or roleblock that person, provided that you did not have a standing vote against anyone at the end of the preceding day phase. You win with the Town.
MisterChris - You are Rand Paul from The Bluegrass State, also known as Kentucky. As the junior senator, you are the shine of the GOP, while your colleague Cocaine Mitch represents the rot in the GOP. You’re pretty libertarian, but always support your principles regardless of which party supports it, which I deeply admire. You were first elected during the 2010 amidst the Tea Party wave and still hold to their tenet of fiscal conservatism. If Donald Trump weren’t on the stage, I’d have supported you 100%, just based on a stance that you get from your father Ron Paul, who also ran for President previously. That stance is ending endless wars worldwide, but especially in the Middle East. The CIA and NSA would face a big foe in you. You are the PACIFIST. You cannot cast votes for players who are one vote away from being lynched. You win with the Town.
WaterPhoenix - You are Patrick Leahy from The Green Mountain State, also known as Vermont. As the senior senator, you are also the longest serving member of the United States Senate. As a result you are currently the President Pro Tempore and were the President Pro Tempore Emeritus while the GOP held the Senate. Just for context, you were elected in 1974 and were in office when Watergate happened. Even now, you’re considering a 9th term in 2022, which is literally crazy. As the President Pro Tempore, you can be the Presiding Officer while the Vice President is not there giving you the power to rule on point of orders. Essentially your vote cannot be overridden because the minority party doesn’t have to votes to overturn the ruling. You are the 1x DOUBLEVOTER. One time during the day, you may tell me that you wish to use your role, allowing you to place two votes however you would like to. You win with the Town.
NP1 Actions
Speed - Lawyer self
Supa - Stalk Whiteflame and Kill Lunatic
Oro - Investigate Speed
Whiteflame- Waive
Earth - If Chris gets Luna lynched (1x Cop)
Grey - No Action
NP2 Actions
Speed - RB Grey
Supa - Stalk Earth and Kill Whiteflame
Oro - No Action
Whiteflame - No Action
Earth - If Oro gets Supa lynched (1x Watcher)
Grey - RB Supa —> Action Fails
NP3 Actions
Speed - Strongman Oro
Supa - Stalk Grey
Oro - Investigate Supa
Earth - If Chris gets Water lynched (1x Watcher)
Grey - RB Speed
NP4 Actions
Speed - Kill Earth and Scout Earth
Earth - If Chris gets Grey lynched (1x Tracker)
NP5 Action
Speed - Kill Chris
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@MisterChris
@WaterPhoenix
Vote Count:
Grey (3/3) - Water, Chris, Speed
Speed (1/3) - Grey
Grey was lynched. He was...INNOCENT.
Endgame up when I’m done with Calc Homework
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Grey (2/3) - Water, Chris
Speed (1/3) - Grey
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@dustryder
Is there a source of illegals being let into America and a reason why they were so?
Democratic Representative Henry Cuellar said it was happening.
As for why it happening? I’ll let you figure that one out. You’re a pretty smart guy
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@Greyparrot
Liberals supporting illegals with Covid being released into our nation is definitely a new one for me lol
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Vote Count:
Grey (2/3) - Speed, Water
Speed (1/3) - Grey
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@HistoryBuff
If he followed his training then in my opinion he wouldn't be criminally responsible for it. The fault would be in the training or whoever wrote the training manual. However we know that isn't the case. He was not trained to to do that. He certainly wasn't trained to continue doing it after George stopped resisting. So the fact that he broke police procedure and continued crushing him even after George stopped resisting (after having been told repeatedly george couldn't breath) means he is guilty.
What if I told you that it was the case that the neck restraint was used because he was actively resisting and suffered symptoms of a condition that caused the active restraint. What if I told you that it was procedure to hold the knee on the neck until EMA arrived because of this condition?
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@Double_R
There are millions of Americans right now carrying COVID. We let out what, 100 illegals with COVID?
So we’re gonna let 100 illegals with Covid out in the nation so they can spread it and kill people, when it is avoidable if we just deport them? Are you really justifying that people diagnosed with Covid should be roaming around the nation? Cause I don’t know any conservative that supports that.
If you care more about the hundred than the few million, it’s clearly not COVID that you give a shit about.
You’re not even making sense. If you want to mitigate Covid you don’t fuckin let people with Covid wander around our nation if they can be deported back to their nation.
The days we have come to. Liberals defending Covid just because an illegal has them. You my friend are dedicated to a red herring. I don’t know anyone beside you who is fine with letting people with Covid wander around in our nation, when they can be deportef
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