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@fauxlaw
Doctor Who joke, yeah.
Though the dimensions might not be spot on, sounded close enough.
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@secularmerlin
Let's say there's a kid, and their mother gives him 2 pieces of candy, while telling him to give 1 of the pieces of candy to their other sibling in another room.
The first child eats both pieces of candy.
The stealing his siblings candy was an evil necessary to satisfy his sweet tooth and greed.
Or let's say there's a child at their blind parents death bed, and the parent asks if their other child who happens to be mute is there as well.
The child who is there 'lies and says yes they are.
Parent dies happy.
The lie was an evil necessary to satisfy the childs desire to make his parent's death happier by thinking their other mute child was there as well.
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@fauxlaw
a standing stone in the Great Britain plain has the virtual exact dimensions of a former common sight in London: the red public telephone booth. What's the cosmic significant of that?
It's a disguised TARDIS.
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@Theweakeredge
I'm a bit angry myself, and 'highly disagree with much of what you've said last few posts.
But I'm trying not to let irritation get the best of me.
So I think I'm going to try to drop the conversation at the moment.
My apologies if my words were construed in a way that insulted you.
When I stated,
To help me understand this (I'm not saying this in mocking or self righteous way, but actual confusion)''
My only 'intention in saying that, was that 'MY words and questions were not intended to be mocking or self righteous to you, but that 'I felt confusion, and did not think I fully understand other people's view.
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@Theweakeredge
Seems to 'me that you've 'ignored much of what I said in that debate, but perhaps I stated it poorly.
I 'really didn't go for the hunting angle in that debate.
I'd say my main two angles were a right to liberty and a right to defense.
Items fall into disrepair and need be replaced over time, thus by,
"Banning assault weapons and (I think) making laws where the government actually disband the manufacture of assault weapons for civilians period"
As you say will disarm Americans over time.
Your argument of intent, fails to address the homicide rate in England in relation to guns.
More over when someone is killed with 'anything, there is an intent to kill using that item.
Are people upset that people are dying, or are they upset by the concept of homicide.
I explicitly state in my argument that my use of statistics and graphs,
"I'm 'sure anti gun activists have many statistics and graphs arguing the other side of this debate, But my point with mine is not purely to say, Look at statistics, And be convinced.
But to say how 'confusing statistics can be.
How different countries have different variables, Ranging from what effects what the statistics are measured, To the measuring of the statistics themselves."
To help me understand this (I'm not saying this in mocking or self righteous way, but actual confusion)
Can you explain to me 'why current mass shootings are seen as crisis?
'Many people unrelated to mass shootings die, die of homicide, suicide, accident, die from self indulgent pleasure such as alcohol and cigarettes.
'WHY is there such concern to remove RIGHTS of Americans, that are instrumental to our LIBERTY and SAFETY?
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@Trent0405
Sounds like yes and no, to me.
Words often have many meaning and connotations depending on context.
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@Danielle
@Theweakeredge
Yes, but it wasn't 'certain that he'd try to ban assault weapons.
I also voted for third party rather than Trump for purely selfish reasons, of getting along with my family.
For my reasoning on guns in the United States, Online Debate: Gun Rights in the United States | Debate.org
Debate I intend to have with TheUnexaminedLife.
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@Theweakeredge
His support in recent days of banning assault weapons bothers me enough that if I were to vote again, I would vote for Trump instead of Jo Jorgensen.
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@n8nrgmi
I'd imagine,
That some figure the virus isn't that deadly,
That some figure they can still get it once other people safety test it.
That some just hate the idea of the population being administered anything en masse, that is controlled by a smaller population. Same fear some people have of GMO altered food, public water sources, cell phones that cause homicidal rage like in the Kingsman.
Many Public schools already require children get numerous 'other vaccinations to attend, and have for quite some time.
So what's different between 'that and 'this I wonder?
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@secularmerlin
@#1
If you want to understand that individual, their ideas, motivations.
Then listening, hearing them explain, usually does tell you more about them, than a quick demonization of them and their opinions.
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@fauxlaw
Good to be oneself, sure.
And in activities dull, can be found meaning or purpose to said individual.
Waste of time matters more if something time sensitive and important to oneself needs be accomplished, I suppose.
If winning the race was more important to the Hare, than napping, then I suppose he did waste his time.
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@secularmerlin
I think the structure is fine, it's something I've thought myself, to the extreme that I think a person should try to find ways to 'drastically extend their lifespan using technology.
Often interests are divorced from 'considering the idea of continuing them though, as much as some people like pleasure, if they wanted to maximize their pleasure they'd practice drugs, ease, and fast food in moderation, but often do not.
If they wanted to maximize their time and interests while alive, they'd stay in physical and mental health by exercise of both the mind and body, but often do not.
People 'would care to continue doing things, but also would care not to bother thinking and working at self care to greater or lesser extents.
Sure, it's logical to care for others. Though sometimes that care is that a man feels towards his chicken or cow, care until one slaughters and eats it. It's not care equivocal to the care one shows themself, though some people philosophy/religion argue for such.
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@Intelligence_06
Dunno, I looked up the definition on Google and Wikipedia, was hoping someone would define it more.
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@Theweakeredge
Just wanted to say I read it, don't have much to say, as I don't 'think you were quite asking for feedback.
Hope you're doing alright currently.
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@Theweakeredge
'Some people have multiple interests, yeah.
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@Reece101
People have their preferences I imagine.
Philosophy forum tends to have it's same band, politics forum same band.
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@janesix
I think the well fed probably have more 'time for idle thinking.
But as oromagi says, doesn't mean they'll 'spend that time on lofty beliefs.
And plenty of people with little or hard times, have held lofty beliefs.
Maybe in some times it's those hard times that spurred some people's lofty beliefs, or put them to the test whether they could hold those lofty beliefs.
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@fauxlaw
First, what is culture?
An individual or a group of people's mannerisms, way of acting, tradition, look, sound, whatnot.
Who first decided that culture could be cancelled?
What human 'first, American culture 'first, or 'modern America 'first?
Cause I'd imagine even Neanderthals had cancel culture at some point, wild speculation on my part though.
America culture, well, just look at us and many of the cultures we came from, especially the British. Though there's still a lot there.
Modern culture, eh, hard for me to pinpoint.
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@Bringerofrain
I'm not really familiar with the term Incel, though I've 'heard it mentioned numerous times before, never really looked into it much.
But I take it that Incels are 'averagely unattractive men, with averagely poor social skills?
Doesn't 'really sound like it prevents them from having relationships if they 'wanted to have relationships to me. Even for the 'really ugly ones, still don't look like
Joseph Merrick (The Elephant Man) I imagine.
Speaking of people with genetic differences,
Chang and Eng Bunker got married, had kids. Conjoined Twin brothers
Petrus Gonsalvus got married, had kids. Looked like the wolfman
Though maybe I'm thinking about tiny number of success stories. And committing fallacy by missing wide number of failed attempts by people.
I'll at least admit it people of worse looks or social skills have a harder slope to climb maybe.
But the world is large, and our ability to transverse it greatly improved.
'Sounds achievable to me.
Besides, genetic inferiority claim similar to how useful a tool is claim. Dependent on context.
Ancient Sparta genetic inferiority "Oh No!"
Current America, "eh."
Though of course some people are impaired 'severely.
Should society save other genetically inferior people to avoid social decay such as HAES advocates and INCELs?
If society cares about the people and itself, it should see to it that people who suffer 'severe difficulties get help. Doesn't matter if they don't have any legs or are mentally unstable.
Sports team runs better if you 'help teammates who are struggling, rather than leave them in dust, rather than purely work individually.
I 'do get wary of 'too much government though.
And a person may not always be 'much interested in teamwork.
Is a case for requiring a 'certain amount of ability shown by the people helped, I'd figure though.
If someone was severely mentally retarded, to the point they didn't understand sex, or could barely talk, doesn't make much sense to 'help them/force them/trick them, into having kids.
Not really great 'genetically for human race I'd think, if people whose genetics are thought inferior keep adding to it.
But maybe I'm a bigot.
Rambling.
I'm sure I'm genetically inferior to an Eskimo for the task of living in Alaska pre modern era.
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@Greyparrot
Do Ungrateful people deserve charity/welfare?
As the title says, just want to get an idea of your opinion and maybe some justification.
Well, to my values 'yes, though I don't 'act on that unless you count the times in my life I've been voluntold to help, given a couple homeless men $20.00 when they asked me if I had any change, and I don't carry change but feel a sudden empathy and shame about my 'lack of volunteer work, and just want to escape the situation. Then there's those donation asking card swipes at the store now and then, but anyway, I don't think I act in a meaningful way of my idea of the rightness of charity.
. . .
Hm, 'why do I think this?
Eh, I'm suspecting my justification hasn't much logic to it really.
My Christian parents installed the idea of empathy/sympathy/compassion,
I'm sure atheist parents, Buddhist, apathetic, and so on parents are equally capable of installing such values in their kids.
But anyway I was taught that other people are/should be valued, lifted up when brought low.
When I was a child, my mother leading me in prayers, I recall once she asked me who I prayed for, and I 'recall myself saying everyone in the world, even a man I thought of as a very bad evil man, a worldwide criminal. Said I prayed that he could find his way to God again, the right path in life, turn from the evil that he had done.
. . .
Course I'm an atheist now, but that my mother praised me for that, for empathy to even that (From our perspective) lost fellow, resonated with me.
Hm, rambling.
Anyway, my justification is it's just a value I was taught when young along with other values over a long period of time, habits and values often strengthen with time, clumping together with similar values.
For a laugh,
Google, Existential Comics, An Ethical Dilemma Finally Resolved.
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@Bringerofrain
Wouldn't say I have that issue with sexuality and my family myself, if I 'was gay, I think I'd find it easier to come out gay, than as an atheist to my family.
Though my eldest brother might glower briefly before accepting it still loving me and trying to convince me not to be gay, my mom would accept it, maybe be bit worried about me I'd imagine. Dad would accept it, maybe make some crude jokes or inappropriate comments, meaning well, but being a boor. Sister'd probably think weird, still love me. Not sure how my second brother'd react.
Still, atheism bother me more, hm, maybe it's just because I am atheist but not gay, so I feel the concern of the issue that is mine, rather than the other one I theorize.
Atheist coming out, may turn out pretty much the same I think the if I was gay coming out would go.
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@ludofl3x
20:6 says "Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.."Somehow this gives me pause, how do you interpret it?To me it means exactly what it says: the only text that counts is the text itself. This insulates against shifting interpretation because it makes adding non-scriptural references,i ncluding one's own reading, a sin worthy of rebuke.
'Feels a bit of a rigid way to take it, somehow.
Still, just something for me to think about, ponder for a time I suppose.
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@ludofl3x
Well, I'm an atheist, so I take the point of view that numerous different humans over a long period of time wrote the Bible.
The Bible changes as well, least how people apply it to their lives, maybe I don't talk to enough theists, but I'd think they'd understand and agree with such a point. The eating of ham for instance, or working on the day of rest.
Translations into other languages, words changing over time, councils of groups of people deciding 'what type of Bible they want.
It 'is a long lasting, surprisingly durable document 'I think.
After all, it's been around and propagated about so long, 'very much documentation about it and different versions of it.
I still don't quite understand what you meant by the 'literal word of God though, sorry I'm a bit slow there.
People fond of the Constitution 'do get in an uproar about what they think the Founders 'meant, people fond of their traditions, culture and such.
I'd imagine a number of Americans 'do see the constitution as a timeless document, certain articles or ideals of it anyhow, or how they interpret such.
Americans and their freedoms. . .
I wonder if the British have something similar with the Magna Carta, or if that's more just a 'link in a chain for them, of their history and views. Hm, Google search later.
Some people are rather certain of the existence of Biblical figures.
But well enough, I think you make decent posts regarding my Constitution argument, though I still disagree a bit, I think what's relevant has been said, saying more might be redundant.
20:6 says "Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.."
Somehow this gives me pause, how do you interpret it?
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@ludofl3x
Okay, but no one is claiming the Constitution is god's own words, a perfect document that not only was never meant to change, but even attempting to change it or adding your own opinion to it is a sin which earns federal rebuke (PRoverbs 30:6). In fact, the US constitution has been changed 27 times, on the average once every decade or so, and we're overdue for one as the last one was in 1993. I'd argue if the bible could be updated like the Constitution can, it'd be a much more useable document.
When you say God's own words, what do you mean by that?
Is the Constitution 'not the Founders/Framers own words?
Certainly the original document was their own words, but further I'd conjecture, that later versions of the Constitution, are 'still 'influenced, guided in a direction by the original document.
Meaning of word changes with context, with what tongue it is uttered, words meaning changes over time.
Different denominations, churches exist, and speaking to adding one's own word or opinion, the proverb 'right before the one you mention states,
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. - Proverbs 30:5"
Am I to take this 'literally as a physical shield shall materialize itself, or instead am to add some words, my own opinion of what is meant here?
I would say I am to take it figuratively/metaphorically, and further that I am to find how it 'relates to my own life, how it is to be 'used and incorporated into my life.
I do not think it is 'strictly wrong for believers to search for context, argue points of meaning.
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@ludofl3x
What does the text of the US Constitution mean I wonder, in regards to the second amendment?
Rhetorical question.
Just saying, because people disagree on how to interpret it.
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@zedvictor4
Well, I'm an atheist.
An 'objective and 'deep understanding of the Bible, seems to me too vast an undertaking for me to have an interest in it.
Would have to read 'records, and records, and records, learn languages, read history books, travel to places perhaps, be educated in various other fields.
Understanding the Bible as it is in 'reality, just too much effort to my eyes.
I'm happy enough staying out of the deep end, just reflecting on it (To my eyes) a mix of history, fiction, nonfiction, law, game theory, social understanding, philosophy.
And even 'that I don't do but on occasion.
. . .
It's 'really not the 'objective understanding of Abraham that interests me, as those who wrote the Bible are dead, so too those who 'experienced it, in the parts that I think be real.
. . .
It's the subjective that interests me, how do we interpret it 'now,
It's the aesthetic in me that feels resonance with some of it's ideas,
The loyalist to his ancestors, who appreciates tradition.
The scheming fellow who appreciates parts of human earnest, society, and game theory.
. . .
Heh, but truthfully I don't think on the Bible but on rare occasions, such as a debate site forums, or perhaps while walking and pondering on 'bits I remember.
The wicked flee when no man pursueth, makes me think of Edgar Allan Poe's beating heart for instance, or Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment.
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@Castin
Hadn't forgotten, just hadn't talked much to my eldest brother in a time.
His answer was that he thought belief in Christ was needed to enter Heaven, but also believed that people would be able to meet/learn about Jesus after they died.
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@zedvictor4
Not unreasonable thought,
(Though it isn't 'my view of Abraham)
Some theists seem to like the view that sorcery in the Bible was a reference to drugs.
And some atheists enjoy joking about the burning bush.
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@Stephen
Well, from your reply to my question, I have my answer.
I'd just as soon leave it at that, then.
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@Checkmate
Maybe this is a stupid question, in fact, I'm pretty sure it is.
But when you say 'right, or 'wrong, what do you mean?
By that, maybe I'm saying that one could say that using the gold club like a pool cue on their first shot is 'wrong, because it goes against the common understanding of how one is supposed to hit the ball,
One might say it's wrong because it's unlikely to achieve the assumed aim of whacking the ball a far distances off.
Though maybe it amuses one to poke the ball like a pool player, and is to his mind thus right.
But what I'm getting at, is the use of the words right and wrong in relation to 'aims, or 'context.
'Some people figure that it doesn't devalue the meaning of right and wrong, that they're used in context.
It's wrong to murder people for a thriving society because of game theory, or empathy, and so on.
It's right to murder people because it's amusing, or one wants their stuff, and so on.
. . .
Though the question is why murder is wrong?
Contextually speaking. .
Because people in certain societies value other people's happiness, lives, and rights.
Though then, one asks 'why do certain societies do that?
Because of sympathy, empathy, game theory, tradition, historical progression, nature and nurture.
. . .
Odd, I feel like I've heard that before, contextually speaking, Ah, now I remember, Jacques Derrida.
"there is nothing outside the text", I think.
Mm, still don't know what that means.
. . .
Mind you, I 'still consider myself a moral nihilist, doublespeak aside.
. . .
Just my opinions/idle thoughts on the subject.
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@TheRealNihilist
Though the people arguing about the question itself aren't 'wrong.
I see the drink, and I'm thirsty, I drink it.
Even a tenth of the way full, I notice, maybe also notice a bit it's nine tenths empty, soon to be drunk, but ah well, I'm thirsty.
. . .
So, half full, yeah.
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@MisterChris
Good points, I think.
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@MisterChris
Does it 'really matter if porn possesses the capability for harm?
There's therapists one can talk to I imagine, if they wanted help finding ways to stop using so much, or at all.
Same way a person can see a dietician or a trainer of they're eating too many cheeseburgers and not exercising.
Cocaine, sounds an uneven example to porn, but eh, I haven't done any research, so I have no sources or backing to my opinion.
I'd disagree with your statement on it not being moderated, as it 'is in ways. Laws about what type can be produced or owned, copyright, worker laws.
Still, I hesitate to say the 'consumption 'amount of it needs moderation, it's effect is hardly the same as a person chugging alcohol destroying their liver, being belligerent, blacking out.
Same with video games, except in extreme example, parents letting children die because too busy gaming, or dying from not sleeping for too long and consuming too many energy drinks.
But again, it's not something I've researched really.
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@ludofl3x
I'm not religious, and I haven't read about other people's interpretations much.
But the way I 'take it, (Not the way it 'is, as I don't know what it 'actually 'is)
Is if I was a Christian big on it being 'literal, then God chose some fellow (Abraham) who was known for his devotion to God, as a means to show and say to his people, it's great that you follow me, even to the point of sacrificing your children when I ask, but stop that, I've seen your faith, and that's great, but the true God is not like these other false Gods, so stop sacrificing your children.
In this interpretation Abraham is flawed, but devoted to God, and is thus rewarded, but the lesson 'I'd take away is human sacrifice is wrong, rather than do everything God says.
If I was 'less big on it being literal, then I could interpret it as some devout guy, without being 'literally spoken to by God, instead being 'spoken to by God by less literal means, whatever those might be. Making the motions to sacrifice his son as might have been common in the land he was currently in, and then 'not doing it, instead 'substituting the sacrifice of a human with an animal, and encouraging others to do likewise, speaking as it were that he believed it was not in the nature of God to demand such of man.
In this interpretation Abraham is devoted to God, but does not believe God would 'truly want such, but the lesson 'I'd take away is human sacrifice is wrong, rather than do everything God says.
If I was even 'less literal, then I might look on it as a story based on realities of the time more or less, but a story speaking of a people who believe that human sacrifice is wrong, and that their God does not actually want that.
But I'm sure there's people with different opinions of it than I.
. . .
I often doubt that the. . . media is 'everything so to speak. Some media is powerful and tends to evoke certain patterns of thought in people, but in the end it's just a mirror that reflects us.
. . .
Also I'm sure some people might want to complain what about Christ as a human sacrifice, well, I'm not a historian/theologian.
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@ludofl3x
Fair point.
And no, don't have a case to make at this moment.
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@Stephen
@ludofl3x
Just for novelties sake, why don't you try 'not taking the anti-theist approach?
And making an 'earnest effort to understand what positive views or values someone could take from such a story, or it's relation to their culture and history?
Some people's antitheism wouldn't bother me 'so much, if I didn't find it so shallow.
You can oppose a viewpoint without straw manning and insulting it.
. . .
Stating the obvious to atheists and being jerks, are two reasons I've never been impressed much with the 'New 'Atheists.
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@ethang5
Ah, but 'there 'is a point I disagree with you.
While I think that there are perspectives one can glimmer from the Bible, for a number of conclusions I do not believe one has a right of absolute 'certainty from those glimmers.
(Broadly speaking, as it seems reasonable enough to me to feel certain that ancient Israel existed for instance)
What's 'valuable in that interpretation, to 'my mind, is that regardless of the fact that I believe much 'cannot be concluded, truth I mean.
We still have to live in this world, have to make choices, and decide as best we can, what we 'think, is right.
Which would match with your rationality argument I suppose.
. . .
Truth can be. . . shifting, a number of people found it difficult to believe the dinosaurs experienced extinction as I recall, or that the Earth should be so old.
Hm, philosophical axioms/truths/practicalities, 'reasonable, such as a number of the commandments.
Though, I'm 'still an atheist and avowed nihilist.
As the truth 'I've concluded is that there is no afterlife, God, or 'RIght.
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@Theweakeredge
@Theweakeredge
Eh, I still think that the Bible is 'real open to interpretation.
I once ate my cereal and milk with a butter knife. . . And supping at the edge.
@NoOneInParticular
Semantical, is that really a word?
Google search, oh, guess it is.
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@Theweakeredge
How 'is your school structuring it's Covid19 precautions. (Out of curiosity)
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@TheRealNihilist
Oh yeah that was one of our disagreements. I said it would be better to not remember everything because it wouldn't really improve live something like ignorance is bliss whereas I guess you take the position knowledge equals happiness.
I'm not sure 'what my position is, as I'm not sure what the 'question is in that quite.
If someone offered to delete some memories I find painful or embarrassing, I think I'd rather refuse them.
. . .
Perhaps I 'would be 'happier without some memories, But I take an odd pleasure in being 'me. Though there's nothing outstanding or exceptional there.
Reminds me of a time ago odd debate, about the best of all possible worlds, I made the argument it's the current one.
Really just for arguments sake,
But I made the argument on the premise of valuing oneself.
Though I might have been happier without a scraped knee, might think it more 'right if I had not hurt some people's feelings by insult in the past.
If such had not happened, 'I would not 'exist.
And it's that 'existence that I placed supreme value upon, in that debate, and even now I suppose.
Though one 'cannot 'avoid changing/losing what one 'is. Ah well.
. . .
Really there's 'too much to 'know in existence, be a hassle to 'always be trying to know 'everything, be learning 'every minute of the moment, learning new equations, or what dimension the room one entered just is, and so on.
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@TheRealNihilist
Heh, myself I've been positively low keyed 'infuriated at times that I can't remember 'everything.
As one of the ways I like defining myself 'as myself, is memory. Information, identity.
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@TheRealNihilist
I'll probably just check everyday if you want to speak or other people then I'll reply but I'm not going to create debates or start forum posts.
Well, there's people enough to talk to on this site, even without new forum posts and such.
Friends are necessary as social creatures. If you fuck up they are still probably there whereas a random stranger would never talk to you again.
It's the sincerity, or 'depth, that I doubt in offers of friendship.
Besides, my friends 'tab or formally 'stated friends may be empty, but I'm not without acquaintances.
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@WaterPhoenix
. . .
Besides, perhaps one 'can't collapse time, I've 'no knowledge of the subject.
I don't really understand how it's logically 'possible to travel backwards in time anyway, I think I'd sooner think I'd gone insane, than 'actually traveled to the past. I 'think.
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@Vader
The USA, It's home, comfortable, familiar, relatively safe, have ties/similarities to others in the nation, wide variety, laws mostly good, born here.
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@WaterPhoenix
If reality can be broken so easily, how 'valuable was it anyway, is what I might figure.
By that I mean if it's existence and by extension 'ours can be destroyed 'so easy, we're as a soap bubble in the air, why make 'so much effort to guard 'such an ephemeral and false state of being.
Though I'm not really sure what 'entails when "the space-time continuum collapses."
Besides time travel wouldn't prove any afterlife to me I think, so to the end, I think I might prefer myself and my own happiness, even if it's to be short lived.
Might prefer to take my chances, that perhaps it 'doesn't mess anything up.
I've read a 'few books that included time travel, always hated the concept that I 'remember, to the point I try to avoid it.
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@seldiora
honestly i kind of wanted to troll you without doing any actual research lol
My assumption 'was that, but I also thought it 'likely you were a fan, it 'is a popular show, well popular enough that one sees it mentioned in popular culture often enough.
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@Theweakeredge
Well, for the blood draws they were always sitting already.
Be different if one feels it coming on while standing, or about one's day, I'd think.
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@seldiora
Well, I always figured there was 'something that appealed to a 'great number of people, regarding that show, though I've yet to check on it myself.
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@Theweakeredge
Patients in the hospital, we'd just have them sit for five or ten minutes, encourage them to have something to drink be it water or juice.
Though I suppose we'd often talk to them a bit as well, try to ease them about getting their blood drawn, being in a hospital.
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@seldiora
I like that it tells a story, and that it's neat, neat in 'form I mean, easy to read. Though neat as in cool too, I suppose.
Though I know such exists from older times, and I'm sure exists in modern times, the idea's been interesting to me before, of an epic poem.
A 'really long one I mean, to the extent of a hundred+ pager book.
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