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@3RU7AL
It's not that complicated.How would you act if you were king?How would you act if you were like superman (impervious to human punishment)?How would you act with no established rules or authority?
I don't know.
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@secularmerlin
@3RU7AL
Apologies for the disorganized thoughts and arguments.
The question is WHY?What is YOUR PERSONAL MORAL CODE?Divorced from any EXTERNAL rules?
Humans are programmed by, and consume the external world, and individual cannot 'be without it.
Indeed there is no outside world, there is only the world, of which an individual human is a piece of.
Semantics on my part, maybe though.
If one's PERSONAL MORAL CODE is used as a yardstick for external decisions, then it is not divorced from the external.
And one's personal moral code is made 'of the external, I say again.
I don't think you're arguing the Übermensch route,
But I do not believe in such, the Übermensch is only the illusion of the egotist/egoist/narcissist.
Semantics maybe, but qualifying statements are such when one speaks of the internal and external.
In The Silmarillion by Tolkien, the books Lucifer archetype is spoken of traveling outside of creation, as I recall, and into the void.
In such a way, a person might leave society or traditional thinking, but they are still born of some human society, with the exception of wolf children/feral children. And even those children are simply in another society, of the animals and wood. Though their genetics still bear their ancestors societal choices.
Rambling,
But when one returns to the world/society, he is again influenced.
Divorcing ones morals from the external is not as easy as you pose, I argue.
Do you think all the "good intentions" would short-circuit any and all "moral culpability" (requirement for punitive "punishment")?
No, people are punished, discriminated against, or even exterminated at times, for 'their or 'societies 'greater good.
Even when a mind claims to think of the welfare of others, at times it is instead a twisted branch.
examples,
Slaves are better suited to the lifestyle of slavery, whether until they become civilized, or because they can not rise above it.
Native Americans must be absorbed into our culture, because we believe our society to be superior.
A king without any selfish interest favors his second son, and so has his first son taken care of or executed, for the good of his second son, or the nation.
Humanity would be better off using eugenics thinks some world leader, and then discriminates against certain groups.
A nuclear family is an overall superior form of grouping thinks a politician, and votes against legalizing gay marriage.
It goes on and on, and I'm not saying I 'agree with such thoughts, But such is human history and existence.
Though I suppose one might argue the examples good intent is flawed.
Discrimination is human.
Perhaps you're way out in the middle of nowhere, driving along a road and you see a stop sign.Would you stop?Perhaps you're way out in the middle of nowhere, driving along a road and you see a campsite, and a large bag of money.Would you take the money?The question is WHY?What is YOUR PERSONAL MORAL CODE?Divorced from any EXTERNAL rules?
I'm aware people have personal codes at odds to those of society at times,
But it still seems reasonable to me for an individuals ethics to be justifiable by another's authority.
Humans delegate many tasks.
I would stop at the stop sign, because I live in a society where dangers are publicly warned to others in that society.
The practice of safety and caution, of following the law, is often advantageous.
I might take the money out of greed and self interest.
Depending on whether I believed it was dangerous or not.
Or I might be moved by empathy of the owner of the money, I could not say. Such a choice has yet to appear in my life.
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@Death23
I'm hoping for him to win, personally.
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@secularmerlin
Would China's One Child policy, be a case of 'intentional eugenics?
Not sarcasm, just curious of your view.
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@Intelligence_06
I agree with the first post, but I'd imagine vaguely, that antitheists tend to have motivations, that are going to keep them sticking with their argument and pursuit.
Whether because of childhood trauma,
Truth seekers,
Some form of utilitarianism,
First time considering the question,
Annoying religious family members and religious acquaintances,
Fit's their hobby of outrage and protest,
Or just have a bent for it, same as some people have a bent for baseball.
Well, also antitheists who want to improve people's lives and society I suppose, and believe religion is a harms people and society.
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Never really paid attention to the show myself, except for some parody songs by Aaron Fraser-Nash.
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@MarkWebberFan
Your words fit a bit well with another part of that chapter.
“Not the least bit. Might is right, and that is all there is to it. Weakness is wrong. Which is a very poor way of saying that it is good for oneself to be strong, and evil for oneself to be weak—or better yet, it is pleasurable to be strong, because of the profits; painful to be weak, because of the penalties. Just now the possession of this money is a pleasurable thing. It is good for one to possess it. Being able to possess it, I wrong myself and the life that is in me if I give it to you and forego the pleasure of possessing it.” - Wolf Larsen
Your argument on couch potatoes being unethical makes sense though, it's one that numerous cultures across time would have held I'd think. When they praise the strong in competitions such as the Olympics.
Or people are publicly shamed for their weakness, though that'd matter 'more in older days I'd think. When conflict and war was more prevalent in communities.
'Though, if I spend the time working out, I no longer have that time to spend on being a couch potato, and lounging in luxury.
No longer 'capable of spending as much time on what I might see as worthwhile, what people value being subjective at times.
Not being physically capable is not so bad, so long as I avoid ever 'being in a situation where physical capabilities are needed.
It's a gamble or a trade off of other skills.
Surely it's bad for a soldier to be physically lacking, but does a merchant who's ventures have paid 'still need physical capability?
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@Reece101
What was your take then?
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@3RU7AL
Preponderance
? One Google search later, ah I see.
Maintaining government credibility is a fools-errand after of a century of lies. [LINK]
I only glanced at video. Lying is a commonheld trait of humans, 'and their governments. Doesn't matter if it's now or thousands of years ago. That's not to say governments or individuals can't maintain a record of being well known for the truth, but when lies happens, it doesn't surprise me.
Just something to be aware of, and that we ought 'try to encourage truth, 'I think.
Doesn't mean 'everything the USA government is saying is a lie though, doesn't even mean the main meat of what they say is a lie, to 'me.
There's differences between the USA and North Korea, for an extreme example anyway.
Not sure I think people not on board yet are Absolute Morons, maybe just need to be convinced in the right manner,Perhaps with a preponderance of historical scientific data?
Eh, I took my crack at it, not something I feel zealous about.
I think common sense, historical knowledge, societal cues, and the links that I offered were sufficient evidence.
But if someone is not convinced by them, I don't really care enough to continue trying to lay on.
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@MisterChris
Economic Left/Right: 0.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.97
'Seems accurate to me.
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Well, Vice Presidential debate went better at least it seems.
Most mock-worthy events being Kamala Harris's condescending smirking, laughing and the fly that took such an interest in Mike Pence.
Though people might still mock how much the candidates didn't 'answer the questions asked, I suppose.
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He 'is a good source for some Stoic Philosophy.
“Look well into thyself; there is a source of strength which will always spring up if thou wilt always look.” - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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@Castin
Okay I have no recollection of making this thread at all and I'm kind of having a dissociative identity panic response, like there's another me or Doppelganger Castin I need to find and shoot in the head before she makes more threads that do not reflect any personality I am aware of.
Maybe you just forgot, I forget things often enough.
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@Barney
Was it racist and sexist of Biden, to make Kamala his running mate?
Due to how he thought America would respond to that pick.
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@Greyparrot
Feeling that you belong to a race that is genetically inferior is also racism. Note I said feel because there is no basis in science for multiple races since we are all mutts from one race in Africa.
Am I wrong to think that a significant number of Hutus and the Tutsis saw each other as different ethnicities/races/people?
I'm not certain about that, but from what little I've read, it sounds that way to me.
And seems to happen that way in other places as well.
The Brits, Scots, and Irish, for example.
Or Herman Goring talking about how different he thinks Germans are from one another, depending on what part of the country they were born to and grew up in.
Don't have the book with me, but he goes on about how unfeeling this group of Germans is compared to this group, or how much more artistic that group of Germans is.
And stated he thought it was due to blood and genetics, I mean.
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@Barney
However, as with your car analogy, believing cars are painted different colors, differs from the orcish belief that Red Paint will make the car inherently go faster.
Heh, Warhammer.
Alright then, more conventionally, I'd agree with what Greyparrot said earlier.
For him to declare any person is either qualified or incompetent in any way due to the color of their skin, regardless of any particular shade of skin.
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@Barney
I agree that my definition is probably too simply, but for whatever reason (I don't know why). It's what I addressed.
Recognized differences, results in different treatment I'd argue.
Doesn't matter if it was just something as superficial as the color of a car.
People argue that certain color cars get pulled over more.
Certain car colors are more in vogue, and thus more expensive than other colors.
Just the color of a car is enough to start a myth about “drivers of red cars have to pay higher premiums”.
Seems to me all the more, would peoples behavior change, if they believed certain races, by dint of genetics or culture, 'possessed differences from one another.
. . .
'Dint. . I've been using that recently a fair bit. Fun word.
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@Barney
Simply by recognizing differences between races?
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@secularmerlin
It's 'possible there is a red ball, but as there's 'no evidence that there's not any other color ball as well. No 'experiences to indicate a red colored ball over any other color ball. Just seems silly.
As TwoMan said,
"A more accurate version of this thought experiment would be that there are 5 billion people who believe (without physical evidence) that there is a red ball in the box. There also exist several books, each of which being a few thousand years old, that claim there is a red ball in the box.Might that be enough to convince someone? Probably but with no more degree of certainty that your original parameters."
Additionally there's side reasons going into effect, such as the belief in the red ball leading to fulfilling and successful lives and societies for many of those who followed their belief in the existence of the red ball. Even if they didn't understand 'why.
Beliefs such as cleanliness, which they mistook for having supernatural and sacred effects, rather than germs.
Society functioning at a higher level with certain 'give 'in's assumed to be true. Objective morality and such. The continuation of morals of the current time, and later on justification of new morals.
Such as the golden rule.
Or the helping of those dissimilar to oneself, such as the good Samaritan.
The 'success and side connotations 'proving it to those with the belief, and convincing other who did not previously believe. (Though I'm not sure of the reasons behind people who convert to religion)
Though I know you already gave an answer to that line of thought.
I'm just saying a real life phenomenon seems a bit 'too dumbed down in your example.
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@secularmerlin
I think that amount of certainty that the ball is red is impressive, though I disagree with it.
The person would have 'reasons why he possesses such belief I'd imagine.
Somehow though, a persons certain belief in God, feels more grounded, than some persons staunch certain in the red ball.
More nuanced I mean.
Though I still disagree that God exists.
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@zedvictor4
Well, they certainly feature prominently in sports.
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BEAST IN BLACK - Beast In Black (OFFICIAL LYRIC VIDEO)
Chain Breaker · Brothers of Metal
SABATON - The Red Baron (Official Lyric Video)
ORDEN OGAN - In The Dawn Of The AI (2020) // Official Music Video // AFM Records
Rime of the Ancient Mariner (2015 Remaster)
I Want the World... And Everything in It - Battle Beast
Joe Satriani Surfing with the alien!
Warlock - I Rule The Ruins
DIO - Don't talk to Strangers HD
Peter Gabriel - My Body is a cage
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@Intelligence_06
South Park, an American animated TV show.
Lot of crude humor and bad animation in early seasons.
Slowly develops over time to be 'slightly less crude, and to say more about relevant social events.
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@secularmerlin
Scenario feels lacking in context.
If I was on a treasure hunt, looking for a red ball, and you offered to sell me a box, that you claimed had a red ball in it.
I might be inclined to trust you enough to buy the box, depending on how well I know you and your character, and how much I want to complete the treasure hunt.
I would in any case want to verify that there is a red ball in the box after buying it, as 'just you claiming there is a red ball isn't enough for me to believe you.
. . .
Although, one often buys boxes in stores, that are claimed to contain various items.
And we believe them for various reasons.
. . .
Then again, fast food messes up orders now and then, 'even though they claim your order has been successfully put together and placed in the bag.
Rambling.
Weird thread to skim through the posts of.
@NoOneInParticular
Must be a bunch of gay guys on thus site if the most popular thread on the front page is about balls. - Tyronebiggs
Hahaha
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I disagreed with Biden claiming the American people are voting on the Supreme Court appointment.
While it's true that the people vote for who is the president, who then appoints a person to the Supreme Court, I 'still don't think the American people appoint for who is in the Supreme Court. Except in a roundabout way.
Seems to me that's the prerogative of whoever is president whenever one of them dies.
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@Castin
How can normal people exterminate human beings without feeling? - Castin
'Routine, Perceived Necessity, Dehumanization, Distancing, Sterilization.
But even then, I think you mistake what's occurring within the perpetrator, though I may be mistaken.
The history of the Holocaust during WW2, is 'unusually well documented, I'd say. Of interviews, journals, records, and administrative actions by those involved.
Rudolf Höss, the commandant of Auschwitz concentration camp, seemed to shock those he spoke to, the psychologists and such, I'd say. That they remarked heavily in their writings his apparent lack of emotions.
But the words and actions of Höss, contain emotion.
"On one occasion two small children were so absorbed in some game that they quite refused to let their mother tear them away from it. Even the Jews of the Special Detachment were reluctant to pick the children up. The imploring look in the eyes of the mother, who certainly knew what was happening, is something I shall never forget. The people were already in the gas-chamber and becoming restive, and I had to act. Everyone was looking at me. I nodded to the junior non-commissioned officer on duty and he picked up the screaming, struggling children in his arms and carried them into the gas-chamber, accompanied by their mother who was weeping in the most heart-rending fashion. My pity was so great that I longed to vanish from the scene: yet I might not show the slightest trace of emotion." 1
You yourself Casten, mention Himmler.
I also want to talk to you, quite frankly, on a very grave matter. Among ourselves it should be mentioned quite frankly, and yet we will never speak of it publicly. ... I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about -- "The Jewish race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite clear, it's in our program -- elimination of the Jews, and we're doing it, exterminating them." And then they come, 80 million worthy Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of all those who talk this way has witnessed it, not one of them has been through it. Most of you must know what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500 or 1000. To have stuck it out and at the same time -- apart from exceptions caused by human weakness -- to have remained decent fellows, that is what has made us hard.
He is able to recognize the horror of such action. But not enough to 'stop, unfortunately.
Anecdotal words of others, also claim to speak of Himmler's early reactions in person to the Holocaust.
"Himmler who visits Auschwitz and vomits" 2
"General Wolff relates that at Minsk, where a largish number of Jews were being shot by the SS in a trench mass grave, Himmler felt ill and had a vomiting attack. His adjutant had to fortify him with a good dose of cognac from the flask he carried." 3
Though the books are in storage, so I can't find the source, 'one of the Nuremberg books written, either by Gustave Gilbert or Leon Goldensohn relate, (I think), one of Himmler's subordinates relating how he asked some boy if he was sure that he wasn't Jewish, that he was an Aryan who did not belong there. The boy answered he was Jewish, at which Himmler replied he could not help him then, and walked away.
It's twisted, but it relates to me the humanity of those who perpetrated the Holocaust.
And that's the rub I'm trying to get at in this post.
The conclusion that a human is a monster, or devoid of feelings, ignores the truth of the matter.
They are human, and humans are capable of terrible acts.
There is a reason other than mechanical function, that the Nazi's turned to gas, rather than bullets.
The psychological toll, upon those pulling the trigger, face to face with other humans.
To speak in a more summerly manner though, of my opinions.
Routine. People desensitize themselves and their emotions, through repetition, and the following of regulation.
This applies to many social human interaction.
Perceived Necessity. People are willing to commit to many acts, if they believe it to be necessary to some end.
Dehumanization. A turning away of recognition of the qualities, that make the other necessitate and deserve that which we give other humans we recognize.
Distancing. The 'walls of a gashouse are not human, the 'ink in the order and ledger are not human.
A statistic, not a tragedy, to misquote a Russian.
Sterilization. Making it as nice and clean as they can. Similar to distancing.
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@zedvictor4
If I agreed with 'all his policies, he'd be me.
Difficult to find ideal person, easier to settle.
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Achmed the Dead Journalist, moderated over a better debate than Wallace's.
Though to be fair, Trump was far more behaved, during Achmed's debate.
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@Barney
Haunted drive-thru is actually a pretty decent idea, especially during a pandemic.
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@n8nrgmi
Yes and no,
To me it sounds like it would fit a dictionary definition.
"a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"
Though I might still think such a claim to be based on faulty premise.
Plenty of good and bad preforming people intellectually and physically in most races, that I've ever heard of.
And even if true, I don't like the implication that treatment of 'people of lesser ability can be disregarded so easily.
What defense can we make against the Vulcans when we meet them, and they declare humans inferior to their logical minds and physical strength?
I also think a number of the users before me, make decent arguments about how one's environment effects a persons development. Society, personal habits/inclinations/hobbies, effort.
I understand why people might implement or pursue policies based on racism, but much like my view of morality, at times it just feels like arbitrary aesthetics.
What one happens to value. Be it function, art, tribal loyalty, fear of the other, and so on.
edit,
Simply believing that groups of people can possess biological markers, doesn't really fit the societally 'negative 'racist term though, I'd say.
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A pandemic survivor, in the sense of surviving amidst a pandemic, not in the sense of having gotten and survived contracting Covid19.
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I like that south park has something to say about social issues, current events, sometimes.
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The presidential debate, could have used a 'literal method of shutting up a candidate, who's turn it is not, to speak.
Such as turning off their microphone.
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@Barney
In the novel, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Lu Bu, had three fathers.
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@sadolite
Eh, the existence of some people talking like Looney Tunes, Sylvester, moments face to face with the staff, or nearby other customers in a hallway, where social distancing might be broken. Seems relevant to me.
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@zedvictor4
You only think that whilst you can.Death is easy...Though dying is sometimes tough.To be successfully immortal you would need to stop physical ageing at specific point.So at what point would you choose to stop physically ageing.
Sure, it's human enough for many people to want to die at times, due to a persons nature, thought, or circumstance.
'Can be difficult to die at times.
Stopping my aging process right when I get it, would be fine with me. Be it my current age, 20 years from now, or if I had acquired immortality 10 years ago.
Though stopping the aging process at the 'prime of life seems the most functional.
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@zedvictor4
Is it wise to base your future expectations upon a hope.You are essentially hoping that a 74 year old self righteous, hypocritical, racist, extreme conservative is somehow going to change for the better....No chance.In terms of being a figure head for the U.S.A. Donald Trump is undoubtedly the most inept President in living memory, if not of all time.I once had high hopes for Donald....But I was so wrong.
I'm not hoping he'll change into a better person, I'm hopeful he won't screw up as much as I'm afraid he might.
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@TheUnderdog
Better being alive, than being dead, I'd say.
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@Analgesic.Spectre
I'm not sure about the far reaches of the future.
But same I do as a mortal, eat, sleep, read, listen, experience.
Far reaches, as many others have said, probably go insane at some point.
Or perhaps weary of existence as occurs in some fiction.
On a philosophical level, rather than scientific level, I sometimes worry we 'already die far more often than we think.
If my nature changes to something 'new, then didn't my previous nature die in a sense.
Does a caterpillar live on as a butterfly, or did he die, and someone else emerge?
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@sadolite
The study of societies and the relationships, is a science.
Less tongue in cheek though, if a mask helps prevent someone from breathing so many droplets into the air, surroundings, and people on their way to the table,
Seems to me it could be argued scientifically to 'help prevent the spread of disease.
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@3RU7AL
What stood out to me was the part near the end, when "YHWH" actually "explains itself".The case is an appeal to complexity, which is a classic appeal to ignorance.I'm so great and smart and you're a worm who can't possibly comprehend the true scope of my ultimate genius.And (IFF) you accept that argument as fact (THEN) "YHWH" is incomprehensible and any words or laws attributed to it are twisted and unreliable "interpretations" by mere mortal worms.It also drives home the point that being rich =/= good and being poor =/= bad.I also find it shocking that the story seems to imply that after the death of your entire immediate family, everything is just great when you get remarried and have double the number of kids.How luck is that Job guy!! Because every0one knows that your immediate family are just, you know, basically FUNGIBLE ASSETS.
Though I may be mistaken, I'm not really sure that it's 'meant to be taken that way.
God knows everything and you know nothing, so shut up, I mean.
The way I take Job and Ecclesiastes are as bits of existential and questioning despair, the 'voicing of doubts and feelings that humans might possess when faced with the unfairness of life, and yet at times receiving no answer that they find to explain it all at the moment of their life on Earth.
But, being that we exist, we must still make choices, follow some path in life, and being that it was religious fellows who wrote said books, I imagine. They reach the religious conclusion and lifestyle as meaningful.
I may be mistaken and reaching based upon my 'own conclusions in life unrelated to religion, but even as an atheist, I find Job and Ecclesiastes inspiring, when I read them, which is rather rarely honestly.
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@janesix
I think that certain environment/phenomena/circumstance can appeal to aspects of a humans psyche, pull at certain strings and aspirations within them.
Foreknown knowledge of a place, such as where a great battle once occurred, though overgrown now by fen. One's imagination and sentiment wells within themself.
When coming to great works such as the Pyramids, Easter Island, or Stonehenge, again the mind or the heart can be effected.
Coming to view the majesty or terror of nature can evoke such, I'd argue, the mountains view, a terrible storm.
Personally I'm rather fond of a butte in my home city, which overlooks part of a state park, the beach, and an island.
Perhaps it was the exercise working my blood and breath on my way to the top, or the view which evoked similar emotions in me as the stars.
But it's a place that'd often leave me in a subdued state of awe and thought.
The Beautiful and the Sublime
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@zedvictor4
I actually had 'incredibly low expectation of Trump when he was elected.
Now that he's served for a bit, they're merely low expectations.
But I'd still rather vote for him than the Democrats (Currently).
Even though I liked Hilary more last election, and would have rather she won.
Politics feels like it's become extremely polarized, perhaps the process was already starting before Trump, but it sure sped up during his presidency feels like.
Some people mock the idea of voting for Trump because one dislikes the Democrats, but then a justice dies and everyone is speaking about the vital importance of what way the replacement leans politically.
Anyway, I've 'never been able to judge Trumps intelligence really.
Personally I think he has a 'type of intelligence, but it's not the type I like myself.
I liked Obamas intelligence and well spoken manner, I liked Bill Clinton, and Bush Senior what little I've seen of him. Not that I agree with all their policies or actions. But their manners and types of intelligence appealed.
Still, I'm probably going to vote third party, upcoming election.
Honestly even now, my 'hope for Trump isn't a hope for him to do great things, but just not to cause any problems and long term problems.
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@zedvictor4
When is a Native American not a Native American?
Not sure myself, though I am surely not any of the different cultures and people of my ancestors anymore.
Now I'm a white American, though that's not bad either of those.
Nor is it bad to be any other ethnicity or nationality, I'd say. A person should take pride in themself, I think.
Is an Italian a Roman, a Greek an Athenian, A Frenchman a Frank, A Mexican an Aztec.
And so on, I'd say yes and no.
A history is written, continues on, is sometimes venerated and followed a bit by descendants.
But the culture and blood is not what it once was I argue.
Not that I place 'such a high emphasis on it personally, I like myself most after all, just sometimes I muse on it.
Somehow, I'm reminded of some Science Fiction book, in which a large group of affluent humans paid for and developed their own space program, so they could settle some distant planet.
One of the backers was a group of people who had the blood of Native Americans, though such could not be told by appearances.
Anyway, there wasn't much room on Earth anymore, and that faction of the backers, wanted to revitalize a nomadic lifestyle.
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@secularmerlin
Interesting video, I agree with it.
Brings to mind Talleyrand, Machiavelli, and some book about dictatorship that I forget but talked about higher education in dictatorships often resulting in revolution.
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@secularmerlin
Seems to me it was the times that the Native Americans practiced stronger nationalism and confederacy themselves against the 'other, that they did better.
edit,
We build armies, because war ends up being a reality.
edit,
Somehow, you remind me a bit of Mencius, what little I've read of him.
What I remember, though likely a bit mistakenly.
Is Mencius being granted an audience with some ruler, and being disappointed by how focused the ruler was on improving his countries military and technology. Yet giving little thought to humane considerations, or improving his peoples ethical lot in life.
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@secularmerlin
Well, logically, if a person thinks there 'is a coin, they would think that a person is losing out by not possessing the coin.
And logically if there 'was a coin, a person 'would be losing out by not possessing it.
Though I don't think there's a coin.
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@zedvictor4
Perhaps, all I mean to say is, I think there is no coin.
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@bmdrocks21
@Main Point
I don't much like broad sweeping policy, it seems to me difficult to implement/calibrate.
Seems better that people implement such policies on smaller, more community minded level.
@Well the disappearance of certain subgroups would make the world a whole lot worse, so we should attempt to keep certain subgroups around
Subjectively I'd agree, objectively it's a bit harder.
Subcultures being born, aging, dying, seems as natural as such for a human.
History is full of such occurrences after all.
Though when subcultures are 'stomped out, it does send a bad message, one of devaluation of others.
I don't think zedvictor4's arguing for that though.
I suppose you could make the argument, that the world is better with certain good people in it.
But it's the nature of humans to die, and some other good people will replace them ideally.
Though sure subcultures can still use healthy exercise, diet, and medicine to stick around, spread good will and ideas.
Subjectively though, I feel you bmdrocks21.
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@sadolite
One could argue, that such action encourages social consciousness about the issue, and ideally their follow through of obeying mask laws.
And really if someone's going to piss in the pool, I'd rather they do it a far distance from me, rather than right next to me in the water, as I start wondering why is the water warming up.
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