Mharman

The machine goes way back, yknow?

Internet archive

MIIIIIIIIKE WHERE ARE YOU MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE

Mike moved out of Russia. I don’t know where he moved to, though.

One of the biggest threads on DART btw

If DART is shutting down soon, sucks to lose this thread

We’ll be able to start a new one tho

Awesome parable

Oof

That last one is actually super friendly to search engines

DebateArena

DebateOnline

Fuck it

Debate.com

Full circle

Wow.

There are so many more people you can ping btw

Also, what were the hidden agendas and what did mafia guess?

/in

My point here is that, despite to evils in history, good can come from it in the end

K. 

You going with 7 or 8 players here?

No need Casey I’ve explained it

Tagging people is hard for me lol

Well, town is always gonna turn on themselves throughout the game. And that will usually result in at least one mislynch occurring solely because of poor information. That’s usually a given, a “freebie” if you will (usually happens DP1). Beyond that, if every member of the mafia team is pulling their own weight, they should get one mislynch before going out themselves. There’s obviously going to be some variance from game to game (town could turn on themselves extra hard, or one scum player could carry and lower the burden on teammates) but on average, that should be the expectation.

Ex. 9 players, 7v2: Town freebie is one mislynch, if both scum carry their weight, they secure a mislynch each, for a total of three that wins scum the game.

Same thing with the other increments of +4, starting from 1.

Keep in mind that a mislynch costs town two players, because of night kills.

9 player 7v2 requires three for scum to win. 13 player 10v3 requires four mislynches. 17 player 13v4 requires five mislynches.

Poe depends on what roles town has and didn’t mislynch. Also depends on fake claims from scum, as well as night actions from both sides, but mostly scum

And as for the reliance on town fucking up, that’s something mafia always has to do anyway. There’s only so many mistakes you can force if you’re scum. At the end of the day, if town gets the calls correct, you just lose. Consider basketball, where you can contest the shot to make things harder for them; if  they keep scoring on jumpers, however, you just lose. C’est la mafia.

I'm curious. Did you even try to guess town's hidden agendas?

frustrated, not exhausted.

I reset every night phase. I would've been fine.

the rule i operate with is that town should be able to survive as many mislynches as there are scum. Vaarka taught me that, so I refer to it as Vaarka's Golden Rule (he may have been taught by someone else, but idk who). I taught the concept to Whiteflame and Casey btw

9players, 2 scum. 13 players, 3 scum. 17, 4. So 5,9,13,17,etc is a sequence

in those numbers halfway between numbers in a sequence, I put 0.5 scum, a tp

+1 over any number in the sequence, I give scum a little more power. -1, I give town a little more power. In both cases, I round to the nearest number in the sequence when determining how many many scum i put in the game

It should be noted that the rule isn't rigid. You can balance games in ways where you can break the rule. For me, the rule is just a good framework I like to start with.

I know there wasn’t a tp this game. And I can think times of where the survivor didn’t help town. It more or less comes down what the survivor feels is optimal. I don’t entirely hate 8v3s, I just prefer 8v2+1s.

Your setup is your choice. I’m not gonna quit ur games bc I disagree with something lol 

i like night phases :(

Sure I’ll /in

I know players already somewhat understand that different types of roles work in different ways (most know that passive roles can’t be roleblocked or redirected), but there are many more cases where players and mods don’t know… this is made worse because it varies from mod to mod.

we have a community problem where mods don’t wanna clarify role interactions cause they don’t wanna fall victim to mod psyche cheese.

But the only reason mods can get psyched by something is because players tend to ask about interactions that mods aren’t ready to answer, bc they haven’t thought about said interactions, which players can pick up on and make judgment calls

I want to create a massive list of roles that can appear in my games, with them classified in a specific way that clarifies their interactions with other classes of roles. Then I want to persuade other mods to adopt the standards

That way, if a player is unsure of how a role will work, they can look at the role by its type and figure out the interaction without having to ask the mod… or the mod can just figure out the answer from it as well

I got distracted before I could really hammer any of the points hard… but I did ping everyone to read the case in its entirety. I bolded stuff to draw attention to it as well.

I worded that specific question in that specific way to throw Lunatic off too, before I posted that read on Mikal. He refused to give a clear answer when I got more specific.

10a

I get it man, reasonable mistake.

But I had the function of an alert townie with a different name. Some of the older mods do that because different communities have different names for different roles. Iirc the first mafia players on the old DDC were from mafiascum, so I think the origins from MS, to the uniqueness of DDO, to the modern influence MU is having on DART has changed the terminology in some cases over time.

That’s not as bad as claiming an extra function to a role that didn’t have a justification, that also clashes with other claims (rolecop) and goes against the incentives of observed behavior.

Villainous Villains. Pie told you DP2 that he was a town gramps in that game. That was a Lunatic game.

If I got the sensor I would’ve hard pushed Moozer and Mikal at first, but Moozer not hammering Banana immediately would’ve made me think about Banana + teammate, and I would’ve felt it was you in that scenario. Maybe I would’ve had more time to consider the hard bus, but eh.

I did think about this for a second after Banana flipped town. But then I realized scum would know anyone who wants to bait a night kill would not be too obvious with it. So I just concluded all the wack stuff that needed to make Mikal be town must’ve been true.

Well yeah that for the double jeopardy and rolecop/doc idea… but not for beloved princess and jeopardy.

I did call that out. Post 196 DP3

If someone visited me, yeah. I wasn’t even thinking about it. Preoccupied with scum hunting

The idea is that the survivor will take the side of whoever is doing better, so they count as 0.5 scum

Sorry, I meant 8v2+1

8v3 is really hard for town imo. Roles can help I suppose. I know when I see 11 players, my mind jumps to 9v2+1

Yeah, I think i mentioned this in my interrogation of Mikal, but I had felt he may have been selling that early interaction with Whiteflame a little too hard

Targeting down me was definitely the right play on your side.

Dude I wanna get a scum game with you as my teammate now. I’m on a five scum game win streak

So, do you still think I suck?

I would’ve seen through Banana, but scumreading you prevented it.

I had felt, that since you were defending Wylted for a bit DP1, that your tendency was to defend your teammates. So the idea that you and Banana were hard bussing since DP1 was very difficult to me to seriously consider.

And “the rambling” is just me trying to piece things together, exploring other ideas and thoughts and logical paths and whatnot. I do it all the time as town and I pointed it out to Savant.

I thogubt I asked that in my questions to him, during the interrogation?

I do eat fake claims for breakfast tho

At which point it was fine for you to sacrifice your position as the free townie and give it to someone else who could need it

The idea was that I VTL myself, scum sees it and types up their own VTL, and I beat them to the punch and Unvote before they post their VTL, exposing them for trying to quickhammer. The would post it, and to their horror, the page was refreshed to show I unvoted first

But yeah i am happy to be proven right about mikal.

If there is gonna be any endgame discussion, you might wanna lock the thread Whiteflame

It threw me off.

If it’s any consolation, Mikal would’ve hammered if I didn’t