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This is how you cheat to win an election. Remove the competition.
Oddly enough, I'm not talking about Trump getting dirt on Biden.
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@3RU7AL
@Athias
It is logically impossible for "anything" to be fundamentally "independent" of "the mind"
This in essence is Kant's philosophy as indicated by 3ru7al's association with noumenon(which literally means manifestation of the mind in Greek) with ultimate reality.
I don't think it was the case Kant used this term on accident or incorrectly, I think he used the term because it expressed what he was really trying to say.
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@3RU7AL
Deism doesn't include those things but it doesn't exclude them either.
I am a deist. I believe God exists.
What you believe about God is your theology. If you were to say God is unknown even, this is an expression of theology.
Your corrupted usage of the word comes from the fact that in more recent times those who believed in God but couldn't accept the religion of their day called themselves deists.
Corruption of language leads to silliness like people professing to believe things that don't match their words, or worse yet, the making unintelligible of true enlightened teaching.
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@3RU7AL
I think Kant's use of that word and understanding the true Greek meaning it is the key to understanding the essence of Kant's philosophy.
There is only one meaning of the word "catholic" that is relevent to me, and that is the meaning the church uses. That meaning hasn't changed.
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@3RU7AL
No, I am saying that your definition is nonsense because it implies that what it states in place of revelation isn't itself a type of revelation.
I maintain that theism and deism etymologically mean the exact same thing, the difference being the former is Greek and the later is Latin.
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@3RU7AL
No it doesn't, it is a Greek word.
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@3RU7AL
Facts =/= The Truth.
Noumenon literally means a mental object.
Your mind pervades your experience certainly, but it does not pervade mine. We have distinct minds. God on the other hand, Ultimate Reality, truly fills all things as all existence has its existence in God.
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@3RU7AL
I would say that is a nonsense definition because in this case God would be revealed through reason and observation of the natural world. An opinion I myself have expressed.
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@3RU7AL
Deism does not necessarily exclude theology. In fact, I find that very difficult to believe. Plesse explain.
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@3RU7AL
@Athias
The One True God is evident. Ever present, and filling all things.
When we examine ourselfs and confess our errors, and make earnest to correct those errors out of a love of the truth, God is more and more revealed. When we stop thinking of the truth as being an intellectual apprehension and more of a way of life, God is revealed through the things that are made. It doesn't matter where you are from or even what place in time, God can be witnessed in the things that are made. Experience itself testifies that God Is Real.
And it is only after love of The Truth is seen as a walk and not simply the dead faith of intellectual assent that it is realized in truth, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
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@BrotherDThomas
It is written,
"Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity."
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@3RU7AL
Deism simply means belief that a deity exists. Of course this wouldn't inform you.
Atheism does not believe that a Deity exists. Of course this wouldn't inform you.
Belief in the existence of a deity is not the same as devotion or faith toward a deity.
It takes more than intellectual assent for the belief to do anything. Our scriptures say that even the demons believe, but thid does not stop them from being demonic. There are many so called believers in God, even ones that claim to worship God that behave in a way indistinguishable from those who are pagans or even deny God outright.
Theism and Deism mean the same thing belief in a god/gods/deity/deities/God. Even the etymology of these words demonstrate this as deus and theos both mean the same thing.
What is the difference?
Deus is the Latin equivilent of the Greek word "Theos". They even sound pretty similar!
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@3RU7AL
Belief in the existence of a deity is not the same as devotion or faith toward a deity.
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@3RU7AL
Deism means the opposite of atheism, because it admits a deity.
Belief in God does effect how some people behave, but to others it may not. That doesn't make deism functionally the same as atheism. They are opposites.
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@zedvictor4
This topic is not about me.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Imagine the etiquette of a mental hospital.
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@zedvictor4
Considering they lock people in reeducation camps and do not allow them to have freedom of belief, that accusation isn't sticking with me. You seem to be defending something indefensible for the sake of expressing your own hatred of Christians.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
RM has a reputation for exercising his ability to block people.
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My biggest issue with the climate change push is that it is going to be the justification that is used to stage a government takeover of the economy... maybe even lead into some population control in the name of sustainability business.
Well, excuse me if that makes me suspicious, but I eat a plant based diet and recycle more than I throw away, so what are you doing? We ought to be good to the environment. That takes personal accountability that just isn't compatible with the hedonistic culture of consumption and decadence that practically defines America at this point in history.
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@RationalMadman
Or ya'll could like... you know, unblock eachother, and maybe exchange ceremonial peace muffins or something.
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@BrotherDThomas
Your embarrassing silence is deafening to my post #48, which is obviously proof that.....
That could be evidence to a lot of things. Not all of which fit your narative.
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I am not so clever. I look at the cup and say there is something in it.
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@3RU7AL
Well, our theology is communicated through living it, so I am not surprised.
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@3RU7AL
The particular God I believe is The Ultimate Reality.
Is this your deist God?
So why pretend it is different and I need to prove something else?
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@3RU7AL
We are deists in the most ancient sense. That is, we believe God exists.
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@BrotherDThomas
Taking a few falsely interpreted and out of context quotes to deny free will when 90% of everything else that is written in scripture tells us to repent, direct our hearts, obey, etc. Does not make sense. Denying freewill is an opinion that has been discerned as heretical by The Orthodox Catholic Church, the true body of Christ.
That all being the case, I am siding with the authorities I respect on this matter.
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@BrotherDThomas
That is not in line with what the church has been teaching for thousands of years. Denying free willl is tantamount to blaming God for making you sin.
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@BrotherDThomas
We make the choice. It is God that gives movement to everything. We do not move on our own, it is God that gives us the grace to move.
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@janesix
However you see it, describe it if you would. If you don't know what it is...
What is prana?
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@zedvictor4
"Godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition."
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Interestingly enough, the ideal of a Jain saint seems to be someonee who wanders off into a cave and starves themselves to death.
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@Fruit_Inspector
In a way, the God spinning the universe like a top and watching in spin and fall is not too far off from Orthodox theology in the sense that God doesn't violate our free will.
However, the main difference is that we see God as being present in creation. In a way, we decide to do something and God gives us the ability to make it happen(or even chump it). In a great way, God moves with us... or more accurately is our movement.
Or to quote a proverb "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps."
I see you might have discerned that deism in its most true to language form simply means the belief that God exists (or more accurately still, a deity).
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@janesix
How do you know what you feel is aligning chakras if you don't know what aligning chakras looks like?
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@zedvictor4
I don't feel any cognitive dissonance for hating the Chinese government, which has functionally made my religion illegal.
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@PressF4Respect
The fact that you are having an experience is all the scientific evidence you need to know that there is some form of existence.
If there is some form of existence, there by necessity is an existence as it truly is.
I would hope you have all the scientific evidence you require at this point to be aware that the reality you experience is different from reality as it truly is.
The Ultimate Reality is God, there is no other like it.
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@Athias
@PressF4Respect
"there's evidence for a particular God's existence" if and only if "people arguing for the existence of that particular god would [use] it to prove their own god's existence."That is literally the premise I have been using all along. I’m still working on the full proof.
There is only One True God, and whether there is evidence or not is irrelevant to the absolute necessity of this God existing. There is none like it, The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, who we can witness through the uncreated divine energy that permeates creation. We are speaking of it aren't we? There are many witnesses.
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@3RU7AL
Your descriptions of god are indistinguishable from NOUMENON
That is because descriptions are by nature noumenon, and God is not a description.
Do you believe the holy-scripture as-written is 100% infallible?
Writings cannot be infallible. Only God is infallible.
I accept that the church's interpretation and use of scripture is inerrant.
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We already agree that god = NOUMENON.
No, I do not agree. This is bad language. It implies that God is a mental construct, not The Ultimate Reality.
You've stated before that holy-text is not considered dogma by the Eastern Orthodox Church, so you've kinda pulled the rug out from underneath yourself there.
I am certain this is a misunderstanding on your part, because we have scripture and we take it very seriously.
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@zedvictor4
A true Christian wouldn't exhibit hatred
Unless of course you are trying to paint Christianity in a negative light, then it is very Christian.
But you aren't attacking Christianity, you are attacking me. You are making thiis argument out of convenience not because you believe in it.
Why wouldn't I hate the false religion of communism, especially when the eradication of my church is built into its agenda?
So I say screw China, we should stop giving their government money. Stop trading with them all together. Forget about making a deal with them.
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@3RU7AL
@PressF4Respect
You don't need a holy text to know God exists. The Ultimate Reality by necessity must exist.
Going from this to Christianity is not a matter of now proving a different God than this. Orthodox theology has more to do with the relationship God has with creation and our relating to God in creation.
So the question is a little bit misguided in the case of Orthodox Christianity.
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I believe The Ultimate Reality is God.
Obviously this God exists.
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@WaterPhoenix
There are no communist countries, they are all socialist countries on their way toward communism!
Well, in theory. Maybe one day the robots will help us to experience what state enforced anarchy looks like.
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@TheRealNihilist
Nonsense
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@TheRealNihilist
My hatred is toward a satanic ideology, not toward the people who are held captive too it.
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@zedvictor4
I don't think it is necessary to trade with a country that persecutes the church. As well as anyone who follows a religion that isn't state worship, as is typical of communist states.
I love the Chinese people. I don't like their government.
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