Total posts: 8,050
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands, we are in the position of children." ~ Saint Basil the great
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@TheRealNihilist
You assume God doesn't exist, and that is why you are struggling. There is no debate about the existence of God. The Ultimate Reality either exists or there is no reality.
As you can see, there is some form of existence, so that conclusively disproves the idea that there is no reality.
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@TheRealNihilist
I don't have to prove that The Truth exists.
The Truth is God.
The Ultimate Reality.
You are not talking about my God.
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@TheRealNihilist
God is in everything so much as that something cannot exist unless it exists in truth. God is not a concept. We use a concept to talk about God. God is The Ultimate Reality. The concept is like unto the fleshly nature of The Son. That which the concept points to is like unto the divine nature of The Son. 2 natures united in this single hypostasis or person of The Trinity.
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If you don't believe there is an ultimate reality, the only thing other option is nihilism.
As it is self defeating to say, "It is absolutely true that there is no absolute truth", the nonexistence of God isn't a reasonable alternative.
By necessity, God exists. There is no other alternative.
There is no debate. You either accept the existence of God as a given or you are very confused.
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@TheRealNihilist
That is what "God" means. The Ultimate Reality. That is what we mean.
There is nothing to prove here, only that you accept what it is we mean by the concept.
Otherwise you are making a srawman god.
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@TheRealNihilist
I certainly don't see "what is going on" the same way as you.
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@secularmerlin
In other words, you want what I say to fit into your way of understanding things.
It is this hubris that keeps you in the dark.
It is this hubris that keeps you in the dark.
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@secularmerlin
There is no sin in reasoning together, neither is speaking the truth.
Quarreling for the sake of strife is the type of debate that is sinful.
You are certainly guilty of the later to your own shame.
The Orthodox Catholic Church is The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The papalist church is not with us.
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@secularmerlin
The only people who complain about others having the last word are those who care about having the last word.
In truth, you will die, and God will have the last word.
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@TheRealNihilist
It is easy to mock what one is unwilling to understand until their arbitrary demands are met.
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@secularmerlin
I dispute that the church of the papalists is representative of The Church to begin with, as they broke away from Orthodox Christianity, which is The Church.
And it is not a "no true scotsman fallacy" to point out a very real identity fallacy.
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@TheRealNihilist
God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud.
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@TheRealNihilist
I am not paying attention to you anymore, as you are obvious not listening, simply being argumentative.
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@secularmerlin
Nihilism has a funny way of equalizing everything. Really attractive to those who can't tell shit from shinola.
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@secularmerlin
As long as you are content to end the conversation with you exposing yourself as a fool, sure.
But if you had any good sense, you would confess that the ultimate reality necessarily exists.
You know what it means. Your unreasonable demand for me to rigorously define it is absurd, and you know that to be true as well. You are playing a fool's game.
If you can't admit this, I will know you are a nihilist, and a blasphemer of the holy spirit. I will pray that you repent of your wicked ways, but I will no longer feel obligated to entertain your demons.
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@secularmerlin
You lack discernment, you are simply being haughty.
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@secularmerlin
No, wizard. We are not even. You are simply being haughty.
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@secularmerlin
You cannot circumvent the uncircumventable God with defining, wizard, you do not understand what you are asking.
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This would be a good place to point something out about Christian theology.
Note that I described "The Ultimate Reality" as The Word. The Word is God. The Ultimate Reality is God.
What we see here as the word, with letters and such is the fleshly nature of The Son. What the word actually means and points to, is the divine nature of The Son.
And so The Word of God, The Most Perfect Image of God, is shown in the two natures united without confusion in the hypostasis of The Son.
The Divine Word made flesh in the incarnation of The Word. G O D.
If you don't accept that The Word is who He says He is, you are crucifying Jesus! But of course, The Truth cannot be killed. So though the incarnate word may be crucified, the divine nature does not die, and the Word rises again.
If that is hard to understand, realize that I am speaking of a great mystery of The Orthodox Faith. I am speaking of the incarnation.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Self declaration is not proof of identity.
Unless you think a man in drag who says they are a woman is actually a woman...
Because that is exactly where that leads.
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@secularmerlin
You want a conception of The Ultimate Reality so you can dismiss a conception.
The Ultimate Reality is beyond conception. You want an image.
The Image is The Word itself.
The Ultimate Reality.
Admit you are a nihilist. You sure do reason like one.
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@secularmerlin
We do not define God, that is not a very Orthodox thing to do.
The Ultimate Reality. It Is exactly what it Is.
You know what it means.
Now do you believe The Ultimate Reality exists or are you a nihilist?
You look like a nihilist with an irrational fear of being exposed as an idiot.
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@secularmerlin
Obviously a conception of The Ultimate Reality is not The Ultimate Reality.
Now answer the question.
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@Greyparrot
Pascal's wager is the kind of garbage scholastic western theology comes up with.
Have some comfort in knowing that Roman "Catholic" church broke away from The Orthodox Catholic Church, and is a perversion of real Christianity.
We know that The Truth is God, and anyone who doesn't believe The Truth exists is very confused.
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@secularmerlin
You are maiing absurd requirements for answering this question.
You clearly have an irrational fear of being exposed as an idiot.
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@secularmerlin
You clearly have an irrational fear of being exposed as an idiot, otherwise you wouldn't keep avoiding the question.
Pointing this out is not an insult.
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@secularmerlin
I think your irrational fear of being exposed as an idiot is the reason you are incapable of understanding the very simple things I say.
You should get over your irrational fear of being exposed as an idiot. Believe me, it will be a very smart decision.
I repeat...
I AM IRRELEVANT
Do you believe The Ultimate Reality exists, or are you a nihilist?
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@secularmerlin
Both of us know it exists.
Now admit that it does or confess your nihilism.
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@secularmerlin
I am irrelevant.
So do you believe The Ultimate Reality exist or are you a nihilist?
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@secularmerlin
Utter nonsense.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
You don't believe in God.
If you don't believe The Ultimate Reality exists, you are a nihilist.
If you believe The Ultimate Reality exists, you believe God exists!
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@secularmerlin
You may be an ignorant nihilist, but you are still a nihilist.
The proof is in that you don't believe in God. That is what a nihilist is!
Your behavior is exactly what is expected from a nihilist. Don't kid yourself.
Get real.
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@secularmerlin
More meaningless nonsense from the nihilist.
Get real.
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@secularmerlin
You can't prove anything to a nihilist.
I don't need to prove The Supreme and Ultimate Reality exists, it is self evident.
As this is what God means, your denial of God makes you a nihilist.
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Nihilism, the spirit of our age, has reduced (pseudo)intellectual discourse and debate to who can be the most destructive!
I know you can know nothing!
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Nihilism destroys everything, including itself.
It's stupid.
It is the absolute truth that there is no absolute truth!
The Truth? Meaningless!
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@secularmerlin
More meaningless and unsubstantiated babble.
You can't prove anything.
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@secularmerlin
I telll you nothing!Or you hear nothing.Probably the former.
The fact that we communicate through text proves conclusively it is the later.
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@secularmerlin
I only can know what you tell me.
I have no idea what you believe
I telll you nothing!
Or you hear nothing.
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@secularmerlin
First you say you don't know what I believe, now you say you do.
Obviously you aren't a reliable source of information.
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@secularmerlin
Productive? You can't prove that this is anything other than subjective non reality bunk.
Meaningless!
Look at you saying I am in the wrong place as if there is a right place. Everything you say is meaningless.
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@secularmerlin
There is no such thing as "nice", how meaningless.
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@secularmerlin
I have no idea what you believe as you refuse to give any definite answers and retreat to vague circular definitions whenever pressed for details
Exactly the kind of response I would expect from a nihilist.
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@secularmerlin
You aren't actially interested in what we believe.
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@n8nrgmi
Well, whether he is or not, we certainly are praying for him in The Orthodox Church.
We pray for our governing authorities, even when they are overtly anti-christian.
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@secularmerlin
It makes a better case at proving it than anyone else, which is one reason I am Orthodox to begin with.
It is the ancient church.
And every other nominal Christian church looks unenlightened by comparison when you compare them. Well, at least it is plain to me. Orthodoxy has the Mystagogical aspect of the faith down. Something that acts as further proof, for me certainly.
To you it is all the same. You would probably prefer it if the most superstitious, gibberish speaking, emotionally manipulative, maybe even hateful church was Christianity. It isn't though, there is a real church. And we know where every other church came from. They can all be traced.back to their deviation from Orthodoxy or a schism from orthodoxy.
Original church.
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@TheRealNihilist
I argue against specific points. I quoted what was I was rebutting. If I didn't then you would have to figure what I am opposing asking or something else.
The only thing I am seeing is someone who can't avoid interrupting someone when they are talking.
And as you are talking in terms of "rebutting", I have further evidence that proves to me that you are more interested in looking smart than listening.
But fyi, it doesn't matter how good a teacher is(not that I am even claiming to be a good teacher) if the student doesn't respect the teacher, they won't benefit.
I can't make you learn anything.
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@ludofl3x
The Orthodox Church certainly sees itself as The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. We are the Christian Church.Careful what you're getting into there, dude, this guy's first language is jibberish. His username should be No True Scotsman
That being the case, it isn't a fallacy to say that nominal Christians outside The Church do not represent us, The Christian Church. It also isn't a fallacy to say that Orthodox who go against what The Church teaches do not represent our teachings.
But I as for your charge that I only speak jibberish, perhaps this is less an evidence that I am speaking jibberish and moreso an evidence that you have comprehension issues.
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@RoderickSpode
I'll take your word for it.
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@ludofl3x
Roderick is certainly not expressing the Orthodox Christian position.
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