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@Theweakeredge
There is no such thing as an innate crack addict.
There is no such thing as an innate alcoholic.
There is no such thing as an innate homosexual.
If you want to cheapen who you are by identifying with where you choose to rub your genitals, HAVE A BLAST.
I don't accept that as being you.
There is no such thing as an innate alcoholic.
There is no such thing as an innate homosexual.
If you want to cheapen who you are by identifying with where you choose to rub your genitals, HAVE A BLAST.
I don't accept that as being you.
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It's very simple.
There is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Your ignorance of what the church fathers said about what this means is no refutation of it. The ecumenical councils were held by our bishops. You simultaniously claim to uphold them while at the same time making an attempt to undermine them.
It's very simple. The ecumenical councils declared anathema on the heresies of your church centuries and even a millenia before it arose. I believe The Holy Spirit guides The Church. The Church I speak of is the one described by the church fathers.
Not yours.
What else is there to discuss? You will not convince me with your deluded and heretical reasonings. You are after all, not with us. You have made it clear that you are even against us.
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@Theweakeredge
I'm sure you believe that.
The word "Psychology" can be understood through Greek etymology. "Psyche" meaning "soul" and "ology" meaning the study of. Basically, psychology is soul science.
A great deal of Orthodox spirituality is psychology. No one understands it better. We are experts. What can I tell you about what we know?
You are not the thoughts that come to you. You are not the feelings that come to you. Understanding that, let me go over again what I am saying.
The first stage is when the thought or feeling comes to you. At this point you can either choose to ignore it or entertain it. We have many different methods to stop a demon when it first introduces itself, the primary method being prayer.
As you are not orthodox, chances are you don't really know how to pray properly. That being the case, I have a more fun method when the demon comes. Tell him to go away. He'll respond, "Why should I?". Then, tell the demon "Oh, I'll give you a reason!" And smack yourself with a stick. Now you might think that sounds silly, but eventually the little bugger will get the picture. Really though, it will create a psychological adversity towards having these thoughts.
Now you may be thinking, "Oh, he just thinks the idea of me beating myself with a stick is funny!" And you are correct. It is a legitimate method though, but nothing replaces prayer.
Now if you do not drive the demon away, the second stage is coupling. During this stage, your mind is entertaining the thought, feeling, demon. It has found a place in you. You let it in! Don't think otherwise. It is easy to get taken advantage of if you do not know how to wage spiritual warfare. At this stsge of coupling you are now fantasizing about the thought. You are being controlled by the emotion. It is this stage that the devil gains strength in you. It becomes harder and harder to resist. The dangerous part about this stage is what comes next.
The third stage is when the fantasy itself turns into action. How did it get to this point? Consent, it was consent the whole time. And now you find yourself giving your will over to a demon.
The longer you stay in this sin, the duller your conscience becomes. Early on there may be feelings that what you are doing is off in some way. Through repetition, it becomes more and more natural to sin without feeling wrong about it. This is not because it is harmless or not wrong, but because you have become desensitized at this point. The devil has control.
The good news is that these demons can be exorcised. While they hold you in chains now, those chains can be broken. All it takes is a little faith. Faith the size of a pea. That little bit of faith allows The Spirit of Truth to work in you, and clean you. To consent to the healing of Christ Jesus.
But as I said, it requires faith, and faith isn't simply a belief you have in your head. It is a movement, a real work. That is something you have to want for yourself. No one can push it on to you.
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@Intelligence_06
Sounds like nihilism.
Even these feelings are meaningless.
Chunk it all into the black hole.
I completely disagree with this making arbitrary of truth, but of course, you could simply just dismiss what I say as a feeling. Then I could dismiss what you are saying as a feeling.
Then it can all be dismissed.
Chunk it all into the black hole.
Nihilism. The doctrine of negation.
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This argument more than any makes the people who use it sound racist.
Like what are you trying to say? Black people are too stupid to get IDs?
For the record, most black people have IDs. For real, what made you think otherwise?
It's got nothing to do with standing up for blacks, it's a load of crap. Just like most of the racist white knight politicians and their bought out media propaganda machine.
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@Theweakeredge
Of course you choose to be homosexual.
Some orthodox spiritual warfare 101
When the thought comes to you, what do you do? Entertain it.
Now that you have coupled with this thought, what do you do? You fantasize.
What next? You act.
It all started with consent to demons. When you do that, they make nest in your soul. You chose to let it in. Now it doesn't seem like a choice because it has dominion over you. But make no mistake, the demon can be evicted.
Your homosexuality is no more innate than addiction to crack. Who you truly are is so much better than this lie.
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@Tradesecret
More accurately, we ask for the saints to pray for us. We do honor them as servants of the lord. The veneration we have towards them is in no way apart from the Christ that lives in them. You say you are educated in our way, you even claim to have been taught by those among us. Well, we are educated by the saints. The historical doctors of the church. You read a few excerpts from a handful of western saints, then get everything else from the reformers and those who followed after them.
Every single one of the church fathers believed in the apostolic succession of the bishops. So well known and obvious was this fact that it was hardly worth mentioning. It was a given. If you deny apostolic succession, you are in direct contradiction to what the church has taught since the start. What was one of the things apostoloc succession was supposed to help distinguish? The real church from the heretics. The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. What does apostolic refer to here? It is a mark of the church, an unbroken continuity from the apostles to this day through the bishops.
John Calvin was an innovator. "hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." Is what the scriptures say. The Church has that Holy Tradition, and keeps it. Passes it down. Calvin created his own tradition, and that is what you follow. You have made the choice to trust this man over all the church fathers and the millenia of Christendom that came before. Why though?
Know this, Calvin will never be accepted by us. He was an iconoclast. And consistwnt with his iconoclasm is an ecclesiology that if accepted would destroy the church. The very church which Christ entrusted to his disciples. The disciples who entrusted the church to the bishops. The bishops who have kept the church intact despite constant persecution from pagans, heretics, invasion, genocide, and all manner of evil.
That is how we can discern that your church is being utilized by anti-Christ to make war against the faith. If you were truly Christian, you would join with us, the very church of Christ. Instead, you prefer schism. Then you judge us for doing what the church has always done! We will not compromise with heretics, for to do so is not loving. We cannot be equally yoked with unbelievers. Least of all iconoclasts.
Can you even call Mary theotokos? Or do you impiously refer to her as Christotokos as Nestorius did? Well know this, the ecumenical councils declare anathema to those who cannot call Mary the theotokos. Just as they declare anathema against the iconoclasts. Just as they declare anathema who hold the impious opinion that it is idolatry to venerate the saints, and ask for their prayers. Just as it is anathema to act in schism from the church. How no church is properly so without a bishop! How a church cannot be a church without an altar! Without the relics of a saint!
Rather, you would do things apart from us. And why is this? Because you are against us. And who are we? Not the church that was founded a hundred years ago or even five hundred years. Ours is the ancient church, the mother church. The very church that all can trace their deviancy from. And rejecting the heretical papalists, you did not return to the church from which she deviated. Rather, you started your own church in opposition to us! And surely as Christ's body is not divided, you are against us. Yet you would desire false unity with us. You in your arrogance would desire to reform our church. You want to destroy us. Why? To legitimize yourselves, and justify your heresy.
God forbid it should ever happen. If you wish to be one body with us, then come with humility as everyone has. Become orthodox. Be taught by us, not our enemies. There is no other path to unity. The church that has taught the same throughout the ages soundly rejects union with heretics. We do not share the same faith.
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@Username
This is the enemy that is waging war against the hearts and souls of mankind. Its end is death.
If you don't know the enemy, how can you resist it?
Maybe someone will see the truth of what I am saying. It may change the course of their life. If not, I lose nothing by saying it.
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@Username
In this post-modern age of deception, confusion, and truth relativity, someone has to point out the underlying philosophy of this age.
Nihilism.
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@Elminster
Maybe cresting another topic would be better, already at risk of hijacking this one.
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@Tradesecret
Calvin rejected apostolic succession because it makes him a schismatic and a heretic.
The apostles certainly appointed bishops, and the bishops who followed them certainly considered themselves successors ro the apostles. The church fathers certainly took this apostolic succession as an outward sign to distinguish the true church from the heresies that popped up in opposition to The Church.
It was Saint Athanasius who you claimed to honor that said "God became man so that man could become God."
But such a statement would be an enigma to someone who doesn't understand salvation in the same manner that the historical church does.
It is written in the 7th ecumenical council, "We salute the voices of the Lord and of His Apostles through which we have been taught to honor in the first place her who is properly and truly the Mother of God and exalted above all the heavenly Powers; also the holy and angelic powers; and the blessed and altogether lauded Apostles, and the glorious Prophets and the triumphant Martyrs which fought for Christ, and the holy and God-bearing Doctors, and all holy men; and to seek for their intercessions, as able to render us at home with the all-royal God of all, so long as we keep His commandments, and strive to live virtuously."
And even before this, there is much in the writings of the church fathers concerning the saints praying for us in heaven.
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@Elminster
The Orthodox Catholic Church.
That is, the church the Roman Catholics broke away from a thousand years ago. Their falling deeper into heresy sparking the protestant reformation.
It is the original church. It is the very church of the first millenium, of which it was always understood as being the only church.
The type of ecclessiology you are expressing is not how the church has historically understood itself.
But this is probably not the topic to discuss this in. I instead point you over to
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@Elminster
That is an easy thing.
But without The Church, there is no Christianity. The fruit of this "Christianity" outside of The Church is the modern atheistic and anti-Christ worldview that dominates the world today.
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@Elminster
There is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
The opinion you are expressing is certainly not the teaching of The Church.
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@Tradesecret
"At the Lord's table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps." ~ St Augustine
John Calvin certainly didn't agree with blessed Augustine's view on asking the saints to pray for us.
But all of this is truly irrelevent anyway. In the west, a great overemphasis was put on blessed Augustine. As if he was the supreme authority! We certainly have a more balanced approach. We do not elevate any one saint to such an extent that the west did with blessed Augustine. Not everything blessed Augustine wrote was accepted. He himself wrote retractions.
St Augustine himself was a man who was loyal to The Church. Calvinists, finding themselves cut off from the church, had to invent a new ecclesiology to justify themselves. That is why John Calvin rejected apostolic succession, something St Augustine certainly accepted as proven by his writings and even by the fact that he himself was a carrier of the torch of apostolic succession!
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@Elminster
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the rightful interpreter of scripture, and the guardian of the true faith.
Apart from the life of The Church, scripture is always out of context.
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What is the logical conclusion of this type of "maximize well being, minimize suffering" type of morality?
Some kind of sci-fi dystopia. That is what it seems like to me.
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@Elminster
The God of the Old Testament is the same God as the God of The New Testament.
To say otherwise is definitely not the orthodox opinion.
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Number one reason for rejecting God according to the top 5 threads on this forum...
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@Theweakeredge
Look, I don't know about this group or this rally.
But I will say this. If the perverts don't go back into the closet, they are eventually going to lose the privledges society has given them. People are going to draw the line with their children. You can't go around luring children into sleazery, getting them to think they are the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body, and filling their heads with all sorts of perversion that they are too immature to process without some kind of push back.
But I will say this. If the perverts don't go back into the closet, they are eventually going to lose the privledges society has given them. People are going to draw the line with their children. You can't go around luring children into sleazery, getting them to think they are the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body, and filling their heads with all sorts of perversion that they are too immature to process without some kind of push back.
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@Theweakeredge
Perverts don't have any moral authority.
In fact, if pervert lobbies keep focusing their efforts on corrupting children, it may not be too long before our society stops tolerating them all together.
In fact, if pervert lobbies keep focusing their efforts on corrupting children, it may not be too long before our society stops tolerating them all together.
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@BrotherDThomas
No, I'm calling you a heretic. One that I do not take bible lessons from.
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@Stephen
I know, it must be sad for you that we aren't the monsters you wish we were.
It might be the case that your bigotry is unfounded.
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@Stephen
The church doesn't teach to go around stoning people to death.
The fact that you want us to do so is very telling.
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@Stephen
Context is everything Stephen.
Christians are not commanded to kill all the butt lovers. Don't worry, you are safe...
...for now.
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@Stephen
My post was intended to be childish.
I wouldn't be calling anyone childish. The way you react when people don't respond as you look makes you look immature.
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@zedvictor4
"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"
You want to know the truth before/without becoming a disciple. You have it all wrong.
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@Tradesecret
By the canons of the 3rd ecumenical council, Calvin is a heretic for refusing to call Mary theotokos, or mother of God.
By the canons of the 6th ecumenical council, Calvin is a heretic for teaching monoenergism.
By the canons of the 7th ecumenical council, Calvin is a heretic for his iconoclasm.
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@Tradesecret
I never considered myself a Calvinist.
As the church has deemed his teachings heretical, I have no good reason to study Calvin further.
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@Tradesecret
You don't really understand how our church works. It's not really any of your business either.
We all have the same doctrine. We all have the same liturgy. There is a great deal more unity in the church than you think. At the same time, there is plenty of room for varying viewpoints.
Guess what? If someone from Constantinople visited Russia to take communion, they would be accepted just fine.
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@Tradesecret
Blessed Augustine was the first church father I studied in depth. The church I spent the most time in at the time was a Calvinist one even.
I believe Calvin interpreted St Augustine wrong. That the big take away for me.
I was really interested in patristics. In the end, this prepared me to accept Orthodoxy.
St Athansius' "On The Incarnation" is practically required catechuman reading.
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@Tradesecret
I have been consistant from the start.
Unity with Rome can only happen when they abandon their heresies. As long as they hold this doctrine of Papal Supremacy in particular, it is impossible.
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"It is impossible to recall peace without dissolving the cause of the schism— the primacy of the Pope exalting himself equal to God." ~ St Mark of Ephesus
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@Tradesecret
My church is in communion with both Moscow and Constantinople. Most churches are. The bishops as I said are prudent about these things.
I guarantee that if he actually made a false union with Rome, he would be rejected. Even if all the bishops betrayed the church but one, we will have another St Mark of Ephesus!
The gates of hell will not overcome the church.
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I legitimately find your idea of unity offensive. You clearly don't understand the implications of this false unity for unity sake.
Union with Rome! What a joke. I wonder what Calvin would think?
Not really. No other reformer in the protestant movement has so thoroughly had their teachings deemed heretical as John Calvin. Like hell we'd join up with churches that still point to this man as if he were some great theologian.
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@Tradesecret
Excuse me, I know you protestants love to deliver long sermons(having even replaced your altars with the lecturer's podium), but I am not interested in reading through your long broken up tirades to get to the crux of what you are saying.
Stop breaking up my posts into pieces please. Make it shorter. Make a point or two at most. It is overwhelming for me to have to hold several conversations at once.
What am I getting out of what you are saying? That you have judged the church. Even unfairly so.
Of course we can't be one. We don't share the same faith. Union with your church is just as abominable as having union with Aryans or Nestorians. It's no exageration. If you want unity, if you want to end the schisms, do it the right way. Become orthodox. We aren't going to compromise. If a few renegade bishops betray the church, in the end they will be rejected.
I certainly could not return to my own vomit and become a protestant. It's orthodox or nothing for me.
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@Theweakeredge
Whether or not you acknowledge God, make no mistake, The Truth has dominion over all.
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See protestants, you opened the door for people like Thomas here to make a mockery of the faith. This is the natural course that sola scriptura takes.
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@BrotherDThomas
I don't take bible lessons from heretics.
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@BrotherDThomas
I don't take bible lessons from heretics.
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@Tradesecret
I would think it is a good thing to try and reconcile. Don't you? And there needs to be dialogues to determine where the heresy is?
We already know where the heresy is. Make no mistake, we would love to reconcile. It has been a constant effort from the start. However, we can't compromise the faith that was handed to us from the start.
I am concerned for the integrity of the whole church. I desire a reunion with all churches, so far as it is true reconciliation and not simply words which have no meaning. For example - the Orthodox Church not meaning it when it says that the anathemas are torn up.
The actions of one bishop do not constitute the view of the church. We desire unity too, but that will only happen when people abandon their heretical churches and join the real one.
As I indicated before, the two choices are either stop compromising, get out of the WWC and excommunicate the church of Constantinople or repent of your sins. Two ways. Standing in the middle like you are now - is to minimise sin. That is the only sure way to ensure that church will cease.
Bishops don't tend to throw around anathemas and excommunications haphazardly. The church moves slowly. Lleaves room for repentence.
The Patriarch of Moscow and The Patriarch of Constantinople are currently not in communion.
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@Tradesecret
The Orthodox involvement in the WCC is not intended to legitimize these churches. There is plenty written on this subject within the church.
The controversy is about bad ecumenism. That is, when legitimacy IS given to these churches. Our involvement is moreso intended to act as a way to introduce The Church to these churches who are largely ignorant of it.
Since the founding of the WCC, the prevailing view is that these meetings are mostly unproductive. The reason? The heretical churches want legitimacy. We can't do that, because to do that would be to compromise the truth.
As long as the pope of Rome holds to this view of Papal supremacy, reunification will not be possible. Don't get it backwards, the pope who makes himself king of all Christendom cannot in any way engage us with humility. That is why even contemporary saints have refused to even speak with him until he humbles himself.
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@Tradesecret
There has never been a period of church history without controversy. Nothing unusual here.
The Roman Catholics have been trying to force reunion for centuries. It won't work. Not as long as they cling to their heresies.
The problem here is you aren't arguing from an honest position. You yourself desire no union with Rome, even less so with us. Union with Rome couldn't happen without compromising the truth. It is the same with union with protestants.
If we were to do as you suggest, the church would cease to exist.
Could you do me a favor and crunch everything you are saying to a few points rather than dumping so much all at once? Short posts are better. Thanks.
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@Theweakeredge
Sexual immorality isn't just a gay thing.
But our understanding of morality has more to do with how it relates to our spiritual practice. It really isn't about weighing things like societal damage.
But our understanding of morality has more to do with how it relates to our spiritual practice. It really isn't about weighing things like societal damage.
Also, we aren't really supposed to hold those outside the faith to the standards we are held to.
Don't worry, if we ever ran into eachother, my God does not command me to stone you to death. I'm not a violent person besides, I don't even swat mosquitoes.
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@BrotherDThomas
God also says not to murder. We are also supposed to honor the governing authorities as having been given their authority from God. If the governing authorities make vigilante fag burning unlawful, that makes such activities murder.
As you aren't in the church, you are not even Christian. You use scripture as the tempter of Christ did when he was in the desert.
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For the record, the bible doesn't say to murder. Murder is an unlawful killing.
The laws in the bible that prescribe these punishments had to do with the secular government of the Hebrew people. That being the case, executing sodomites was a lawful thing, not a murder. An execution. Capital punishment. Very different from murder.
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According to our worldview, there is no such thing as an innate homosexual. Rather, homosexuality is a symptom of idolatry.
Being made in the image of God, that is the true identity. The walk is about polishing that image so God shines forth. When you start identifying with the smudges that obscure the image, that is when identity issues arise.
The church does not exercise secular or worldly authority. The Church has to maintain a distinction from the state.
That all said, sexual immorality is a real thing, and it isn't harmless. It spreads disease, corrupts the psychology of a society, and creates great instability. If a government passes laws against these behaviors, they are within their right to do so.
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