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@Crocodile
This is the post Oro is talking about. I thought you were talking about being an amnesiac IRL based on you forgetting you didn't claim. Can you clarify if this was a role claim?
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@Greyparrot
This strategy of killing off bad townies makes me sad.
It's more about the typical effort put into a game, then skill level.
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@BearMan
I doubt Croc would know about amnesiac or lie about being a mimic. VTL Pattern
Love how quick you jumped on that btw, any opportunity to wagon huh?
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@oromagi
Croc first claimed he'd been converted to VANILLA, narrowing TUF down to VANILLA or SCUM. TUF wisely and immediately claims VANILLA.
Explain the logic on how that makes me scum?
Now, Croc claims that he'd been converted to Amnesiac. That either makes Croc lying SCUM or TUF third party again!
Where did he say he was an amnesiac? He said he thought he had amnesia because he thought he already claimed his results, he wasn't actually claiming a role with that lol.
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Still feel like pie would have tried to fake claim better than that though, but I could be wrong. Maybe he didn't want to risk a CC.
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Oh that's true, totally forgot about Pie. Yeah as I said it would be an easy way to test the theme split.
Well technically we did that with speed but yeah I guess his is just a straight up villain-villain where the gaara and sasuke are more "grey area".
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Also I just did a google of Pie's character. She is quite clearly a villain and against naruto. So is Sasuke and Gaara though, so I don't really know what to make of it. I guess she takes the appearence of the 10 tailed fox at one point who is virtually the main bad guy for naruto if I remember correctly, and that definitely doesn't look all that good. I can get behind a pie lynch, and I guess soldier kind of makes sense with that, but I've literally never seen the soldier role in a game except for pies, and I can't let that go. I think I may end up on that wagon by the end of this.
Bear's claim kind of eases my suspicion, I'd say his character is in the same realm as mine though maybe he's less likable for being a glutton. I suppose that's debatable lol.
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@MisterChris
Hinata was meant to be the heir of the Hyuga clan, but she actually lost the title to her sister who is better at fighting. Her cousin Neji is also far better than Hinata at fighting andleading in general. Not sure where you're getting the "worse" from. Maybe Supa made a mistake... But Hinata was never meant to be the savior of her clan, just a powerful heir.
Supa says she is "worst" than her cousin Neji, which is basically what you just said if we are to assume that means fighting skill, which I didn't initially. Didn't bother to look up my character though, outside of the picture, because I vaguely remember her. I watched the show in 2016 though but I remembered she was a good guy.
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@MisterChris
Pattern claimed Hinata. She loosely fits the vanilla role
Funnily enough, the description I have makes it feel like I should have a power role. I am an heir to my clan's main branch and was the savior of the clain, but my cousin is "worse" whatever that means, and then I am randomly vanilla. I'd think someone who is the savior of their clan would be a power role. But regardless, that's why I told pie his theory on role description seems accurate prima facie, though supa could have just balanced that way because he needed more vanillas for balance.
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@Barney
Unimportant since you've outed your role, but would you mind telling us your character?
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@ILikePie5
Are you town reading Skitlez or are you null atm
I would say null leaning town, but the reasoning for the slight town is shoddy, I'll admit. I seen his play as scum in both of the last games, and his silence and lack of participation was much stronger there. His activity isn't a ton better here but I'd say it's almost double what he posts as scum. And even though he was a bit guilty of OMGUS when I was questioning him yesterday, he seemed more passionate about it then I have ever seen him as scum at being of risk of lynching.
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@MisterChris
I think that the best lead we have is Pie, even though he has acted pro-town. It would at least give us info on the theme split, as we know his character is on the evil side of things.
If I can't convince ragnar or oro that lynching bearman is the right move here, I can concede a lynch on pie based on the soldier claim. That alone is pretty scummy, though pie has been active and helpful so if he is town I feel the lynch will hurt a lot, so that is my reservation.
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@BearMan
1. You never claimed he was lazy.
He was included but I crossed him off based on claim and results, go ahead and re-read if you like.
2. The kid wasn't actually the doctor. Any mafia could already find out sakura was probably a power role. It was already anti-town by T1U claiming
You didn't know that though, and it was thought by you and misterchris that it was likely. Sakura could have been anything, and you decided to claim probably doctor. No other vet would get away with saying that.
3. What were your so called concerns?
Your reaction was what was scummiest about the whole thing; Rather than just admit you did an anti-town thing you doubled down and defended your actions, then OMGUS'ed me and took advantage of what looked like an easy mislynch when everyone thought I was a noob. You never directly admitted you made a mistake; Even now you are defending your action, but in replies you acknowledged that you made a mistake. Why won't you just admit ouright that what you did was not beneficial to the town? That and the fact that that1user died when several people still though she was doc is pretty sketchy.
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@ILikePie5
I don’t think he’s a noob anymore as you said. I’d be fine with a full claim from him to possibly get rid of the WIFOM associated with “outing” the doctor.Also one more thing I just realized. Why did Croc mimic you instead of GP who was a claimed tracker? To me it seems like scum wanted to see what role you have because you are the most experienced player in the game especially after you revealed that you were in fact Lunatic.
I mean you might have a point there, but still I feel uneasy about lynching him based on how strong his claim and role is. The choice of night action doesn't seem the smartest.
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@BearMan
Ok Pattern. Let's go for the lazies shall we. Somehow you are tunneling on me from the start of DAY 1, and this is even more shown when you MENTIONED CROC AS ONE OF THE NON-LAZIES. Seriously bro. More than half of his posts are explanations why he wasn't on. The rest were mindless blabbering of something that has already been revealed or something that is completely useless to town. Somehow Croc also ousted your role which you don't care about, but when I oust the doctor, who mind you ISN'T REALLY THE DOCTOR, it is scum?
1. I never said Croc wasn't lazy. Please qoute me.
2. Croc outing my role as vanilla is 100% less harmful than a doctor; Also I told him to do that so I could cross him off the list as potential scum candidates.
3. Tunnel vision, blah blah blah. You never addressed my concerns, you only doubled down and defended your own actions.
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@ILikePie5
I think Skitlez. He’s been on every wagon today. When it was started on me, his vote was on me. When it started in Croc he’s on Croc. That screams lazy to me. Croc is my second pick but he’s just lazy in general which I inherently think is scummy. Croc could very well be a role cop as you mentioned and his laziness plays to that as I’ve had to prod him multiple times to answer my questions. I’d be comfortable with either of the two
And Bearman?
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@WaterPhoenix
honestly, i'm very 50/50 on this issue. i don't really think him saying "i told you so" for speed as scummy. and the conspiracy about him thinking that1 was doctor and her dying doesn't really make sense. however, i do agree that him saying he didn't say sakura was doctor was anti town then not voting bear when bear said sakura was doctor didn't really make sense.
If you don't buy my argument for why I suspect MisterChris, that's fine. I would rather address him in the later game if possible anyways. Regardless, how do you read MisterChris? Is he town, and if so why?
why bearman? because he "ousted" the doctor (who wasn't the doctor) last dp? i don't really get it. why would scum oust doctor? that's just screaming "hey all you trackers and watchers, make sure to watch this person!". while it could be considered anti town, there's a difference between being anti town and being scum.
The point is that Bearman isn't brand new anymore, he's played in multiple games and should know that was anti-town. If I did that would I get a pass? The doctor ousting was one thing, it was the way he reacted to it that made it scummy to me. When I pointed it out he denied it was a scumtell and OMGUS'ed me, which seemed extremely defensive. After all that arguing about how he didn't do anything wrong, later in replies he acknowledged it was a mistake though he never directly said it was at any point. The whole situation felt like a kid being caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
The other reason I am focusing bear, is again because I don't want to go into late game with the lazies, and I am not sure there is sufficient enough dirt on any of the more logical players to lynch them. I would rather lynch a lazy/lurker. Out of those, the remaining are croc, grey, bear and and skittlez. I cross off croc for his claim and result, and grey for the same. Between skittlez and Bear, I already had a scum read on bear, and I do slightly feel that Skittles is barely putting in more of an effort than he usually does as scum, and I've just witnessed his last two scum games. So Bear feels the logical choice here for me at least. I still would like your thoughts on who you think is scummiest out of the lazies though.
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Out of the remaining people on the list, I'll cross of grey for now since he has correct results that coo-berate with ragnar, and obviously crossing off croc for his claim and results. That leaves the skittlez and bearman. I don't think I have to tell you who I would rather lynch out of the two based on what happened last day phase.
unvote, vtl bearman.
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@Barney
@ILikePie5
@oromagi
@MisterChris
@WaterPhoenix
Not sure what to make of crocodile. I hate to have to lean town on him, but I kind of do. For one he is right about what my role was. That could have just been a lucky guess, or mafia could have a rolecop/scout and may have figured it out that way. I was considering denying that was my role to see if I could reaction test him but changed my mind. Assuming that wasn't a guess or deduced based on a scum role, we also have to consider that Kakashi Sensei is a huge main character and definitely in the good guys pool. The claim fits the character. If mafia big brained that or were given it as a fake claim that will suck. I hate to excuse inactivity and lack of effort but getting croc to play and be active is like pulling teeth, and for the most part his claim looks really good.
It's time to move on and decide who we lynch today. The people I've tagged are the people I consider the least laziest in the game, and more willing to consider logic, so if you were wondering why you were randomly tagged that's why.
Now, any of you 4 could be scum, but I am utterly horrfied by getting into a MYLO/LYLO situation with any of the other 5 players on the player list. Also unless this is a stacked mafia team with vets (I don't think that's likely based on the night phase). There's probably at least 1 noob (by noob I mean player who plays poorly, wagons, is lazy, etc) on the scum team and I would like focus that person if possible this day phase. I suspect the hell out of MisterChris, and I suspect Pie for his claim, though I admit his behavior is pro town. That said, I would like to hear from each of you about which noob you are most likely to want to lynch and why. Barring serious results I don't like the idea of sending any of you off to the graveyard just yet. Thoughts? Agree, dis-agree?
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@Crocodile
You came back as vanilla apparently, i've already said it.
Which post did you say it in?
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@Crocodile
If you mimic'ed me say what my role is right now please.
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@Crocodile
I just picked a random guy, and it was you. i suck.
So you know what my role is?
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@Intelligence_06
Why are you banned in the first place?
Request
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@Crocodile
fine im kakashi hatake. I possess the sharingan so i'm a mimic.Don't think there's a better character justification than that
Who did you mimic?
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@MisterChris
What time??
from now until when people get bored I suppose. We usually play 3-5 hours
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@Buddamoose
@Danielle
@Vader
@That1User
@LikeMagic
live mafia tonight
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@Greyparrot
@Barney
@Discipulus_Didicit
@Speedrace
@WaterPhoenix
live maf tonight
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@ILikePie5
@oromagi
@MisterChris
@skittlez09
@BearMan
live maf tonight
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@MisterChris
Alright, let's sum up your argument here.In order for me to have "argued against a Speedrace lynching" I had to have:1. Fought tooth and nail against it2. Denounced everyone who hopped on board.3. Not reserved the possibility of me being wrong.Clearly this is ridiculous. I think what you're seeing is me being not entirely certain in either way. Truth is, I was 70-30 in favor of Speed.
The posts you made don't indicate that you cared overtly one way or the other if he was lynched, and your final post in regards to the matter indicated you were willing to lynch him expands on that. There are no specific pre-requisite's for arguing against a lynch, so I am ignoring that. If you had a 30% potential for voting speed, you can't logically jump in and say "I told you guys". The only reason someone would say something like that is if they were much more certain of someone's innocence.
A very mild form of lamentation.
Debatable. It isn't from my perspective. But as an argument that you didn't mean to sound that confident, maybe I can buy that. I'll have to consider. Until now, your doubling down on it has caused me to doubt this, where if you said this in the beginning it would have been an easier point to swallow.
You're reading into this way too much. Again: you too often use debatable logic to come to grand conclusions... you often REALLY push a narrative on little evidence.
The conclusions become grander based on the responses to them. I am 100% okay with being wrong, and I accept that the logic isn't impenetrable in every situation. In bear's case, the reason I came to scum read him harder was his OMGUS reaction and how he just counter voted so easy. In your case it seems like you were denying that you were in favor of lynching him at all, though in this last post your tone seems to have changed a bit on the matter. I tend to town read humility.
This entire game is simulating the proceedings of a jury... Even if it is not formal, I should hope that decisions are evidence-based. You act as if psychological evidence is not evidence. It is. The problem is, though, there needs to be a pattern of behavior. Taking a couple posts and extrapolating gargantuan claims is not psychological analysis, it is assumption.
I am not claiming that any of this logic is hard hitting enough for a death sentence, if I were, I'd be voting you now. Yes this is an assumption, I am explaining the reasons why I have come to the point where I am assuming what I am and you are arguing why you feel my assumption is wrong. If you feel this is gargantuan, it's because you are responding to it as if it is. I view this conversation more as me explaining where I am coming from to someone who doesn't understand, than some massive lynch attempt against you. Big posts often get mis-interpreted as that. I always try to reply to everything, just in my nature since way back on DDO. Not just mafia, any conversation.
It really wasn't my intention to fish for town cred initially with my first comment (i.e. post 25. RIP Speed. I TOLD YOU GUYS).The second one was in defense of myself. If defending myself is fishing for "town cred", I don't exactly see this being an exclusive scum strat. You apply pressure to me and you think I am NOT going to try to get the town's trust?
The "I told you guys" statement happened before I posted that I was still interested in hearing from you this day phase btw. The speed situation for town cred had nothing to do with me though.
Sure. Fair point. Just maybe reallocate your efforts to where they are actually useful.
I am exploring many different areas, if it appears I am only talking to you it's because your the only one responding. I think a back and forth with crocodile would be very revealing, but he's nowhere to be found, so I am having a discussion with my other scum read who happens to be better at responding.
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@MisterChris
I was convinced he wasn't scum, but if he starts to get tunnel vision on me that might change.
It might seem more tunnel vision than it actually is because I am back and forthing with you. I have several scum reads, you are one of the top ones, but I don't know if that means you are the day's lynch. Also I would have to sell the other townies on you which seems like an uphill battle atm. I full fledged am skeptical of you though, if you think that is tunnel vision your welcome to counter me. But your arguments haven't swayed my position on your behavior up until this point.
Though I will say I think it's Ironic that you are threatening to counter vote me here, after all the talk of how much I was "OMGUS'ing" yesterday.
Also I had no reason to mention you this day phase also, if I was scum, targeting you is not the ideal mislynch option. I haven't been viewed as especially persuasive in this game, so pursuing you makes almost no sense from a scum perspective.
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@ILikePie5
You think it’s a coincidence that all of ours don’t match but Oro’s does? Did you read about my mod psyche theory?
No. Just because the link doesn't make sense to us, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to supa. I can see a world where mine makes sense to maybe supa for example, but explicitly the way it is described to me it doesn't make sense. Looking in the graveyard we can see a difference in the two flips for example.
Look at Sakura's justification. The description doesn't seem to match the role in the slightest. It talks about her appreciating Naruto more after Sasuke get's kidnapped, then randomly she is a weak hider.
Then Gaara's role makes much more sense, his motives are all about killing and so is his role.
Basically the role links might only make sense to supa. That or he does what I do, and will BS a description to balance it the way he wants. In stormlight archive I wanted a watcher, so BS'ed a description for Wit to be a watcher, even though there are probably more appropriate theme related roles for him. I am okay with mod-psyching to an extent, but things like these seem a little harder to look into, and I find we are often wrong when figuring them out. In your game I remember people were way off with the split, myself included. It's hard to know what goes on in the mods mind. That said figuring out a theme split might be easier than finding a difference in this way.
Also why would mafia get a different role PM set up than town? I figure if there was a difference in role set ups, mafia would have been aware of it. It's more likely even if he is scum, he didn't stretch the role set up much. Giving oro some credit here for not being a total duntz. It's a good theory, I just don't know if I buy it all that much no offense. You may still be right about oro just for the wrong reasons. Look at what supa tried doing in the last game with his egg mcmuffin theory lol. He was wrong about his theory, even though I was scum.
Are you scumreading MisterChris atm?
Yes; I'll repeat the main reasons clearly for you:
1. Non-commital
He was one of the only people who didn't vote by the end of the day phase though it seemed he was online since his last post was just before speed claimed. He seemed very non-committal to me, and I don't get the vibe that he has any interest in figuring the game out. This is his first game, so I take that into account, but I also take him to be one of the more logical and thorough individuals, and I don't feel like he was even trying to scum hunt. After my lynch didn't seem plausible he had posted a few times about how exhaustive the phase was, but ultimately just didn't seem to be burning any reads.
2. Attempting to earn undeserved town cred with speed
In post 25, he says "RIP Speed. I TOLD YOU GUYS"
I mean to make it sound like he argued for him being innocent tooth and nail just isn't true. I looked into the end of that day phase to make sure.
"It's not ideal.. But I want to give Grey the opportunity to give us information through his tracking ability, and I also don't quite buy needing to lynch speed"
Not quite buying the need to lynch speed = / = arguing his innocence lol.
Then he was even considering lynching him! So this is a lie in general.
"Alright, maybe. But I'll only seriously consider a vote if it's clear Speed is going to be lynched. Get some more support and I'll be tempted (like 1-2 votes away). As much as I'd hate to vote without much evidence, if the town is in universal agreement I don't really see a reason for my biases to stand in the way."
If he was so convinced he was town why would he say this at all? From my perspective it looks like he wasn't too phased that he was about to be lynched at all, so trying to use his lack of vote on him as evidence that he is town does the opposite for me lol.
3. His vote on me last day phase when I went after bear is another one.
He mentioned he also thought That1user was a doctor, and didn't want to say anything publicly because it would be anti-town to do so, yet when I voted bear for ousting the doctor, he seemed to act all perplexed about my reasoning, accused me of tunnel vision while acknowledging my reasons were correct, and refusing to acknowledge bears defensiveness and later admittal to this being anti-town via responses.
4. Conspiracy theory point: He still thought that1user was a doctor, and that1user died
That1user did eventually say he wasn't the doctor, though I think I am one of the only ones that caught that in the midst of all the dialouge. MisterChris was still saying he thought that1user was the doctor by the end of the day phase. With that1user being killed, that looks bad for him. As for the other scum its possible they are among the many lurkers or also didn't catch it. If this is the case, it looks good for you pie. I'll admit this is among one of the weaker points, but still something that is bugging me.
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@MisterChris
Keyword ALMOST.Here is a compilation of me saying Speed is most likely town.
I've seen all of those posts, and it doesn't help you case because you were still okay with lynching if that's what the majority wanted (even though you didn't hop on the lynch, contradicting yourself), and then STILL had the gall to try and use your lack of joining the speed wagon to earn town cred. It just makes you look worse if anything.
Face it, there is no true evidence that I'm mafia. You're reaching for a lead where there is none.
Evidence? What do you think this is, a legal case? There's rarely "evidence" that isn't psychologically based. I am trying to delve into your motives, your motives indicate you used speeds mislynch for town cred. Town don't need to say "I told you so", they just buckle up and look for the next scum.
Maybe you should brake the wagon for sec and objectively consider who here is the most scummy. Croc has been lurky and Oro makes a good point about Pie.
My vote is currently on croc, I've recently asked the mod and croc where they are. I am considering pie being scum highly, mostly because of his claim being only ever seen in his own game, but something feels off about things. Just because I also suspect you, doesn't mean I am not looking into the others.
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@MisterChris
This could be true of anyone here. I don't really understand why you're zeroed in on me. Just because I happened to miss one post? LMAO please
It's that combined with the other stuff, like using speeds lynch to try and earn town cred, after not taking a real stance on almost anything last day phase.
Never said I argued well. You're putting words in my mouth.
You used the word argue, and argue you certainly did not.
Yes I did.
No you didn't you were almost considering lynching him yourself lol.
"But I'll only seriously consider a vote if it's clear Speed is going to be lynched."
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@Barney
I did visit pie last night. I'm Ensui Nara, a rollblocker.
Why did you choose to roleblock pie?
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@ILikePie5
Does your justification make sense?Cause I’m noticing a pattern that Oro laid out - Speed’s and That1s justifications didn’t make sense as townies and GP if he’s town which I believe he is doesn’t have a justification that makes sense either. Mine is also a stretch. Only Oro says his justification makes sense
Personally I don't think my justification makes any sense, no.
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@MisterChris
Yeah I missed this. Sakura being the doctor makes a lot of sense if you've seen the anime... In fact, it makes so much sense I might've maintained that she was just lying even if I HAD seen it.
What I am saying is the fact you didn't know she said this, it makes sense why she would have been night killed. If you thought she wasn't the doc, she wouldn't have been worth a night kill.
If you will remember, I argued for the protection of That1.
This makes even less sense if you thought she was the doctor. Who would have protected her?
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@MisterChris
Frankly, I said that I might lynch speed but never really intended to unless some new argument blew me away. And I always maintained that he was most likely innocent. I did not fight tooth and nail, I should've, but I didn't
I am not pointing this out to say that you should have fought him from being lynched. I am pointing this out to prove that you are lying about how well you "argued" against his lynch as a means to give you towncred.
"RIP Speed. I TOLD YOU GUYS"
You didn't "tell" us anything.
"I argued that he was most likely innocent."
You didn't "Argue" anything either. You using his being lynched as an "I told you so moment" just is a lie. You didn't seem like you cared all that much either way last phase.
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Another scummy thing is that after reading last day phase, it seems clear that MisterChris thought that That1User is the doctor even though she denied this at some point (he must have missed it). This makes her death look like a night kill instead of visit to the mafia.
Misterchris near the end of the day phase: "It's in the best interest of the doctor to lay low. She was outed, but didn't confirm it likely to keep at least a minimal amount of mystery about her."
That1user earlier: "He didn't oust the doctor"
So much happened that phase I can easily see mafia missing this, especially if there are lurkers or inactives on the mafia team. Misterchris definitely missed it, and that1user died. Just something that's bugging me and I have to get it off my chest.
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@ILikePie5
How do y’all feel about Oro? He’s seeming a bit lurky which contradicts his town meta where he’s usually more active and aggressively pressuring people
Oro always has questionable activity. I literally threw a tantrum about it at the end of lucky's game, about how he always plays just enough to get replaced. That said, his activity and interest seems ever so slightly higher in this game than in lucky's when he was scum. Though he was going through personal hardship during that game, which explains the overdue absence, but his activity is generally just low.
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@WaterPhoenix
why? it may be a bus but it's more likely than not it isn't from where i see it.
The situation just feels odd. Out of all the possibilities of what happened last night like the hider hiding behind mafia, the mafia targetting that1user, Ragnar instantly assumes there was no kill because he roleblocked the person carrying out the kill? The odds of that happening are 10 to 1, first of all. But even odder is that Pie's claim has only ever been seen in his own game before by most people here, which lends credence to him being potentially scum. I am just saying that it feels a bit planned like a bus. The fact that everyone is just going for this theory over the much more obvious and likely ones, and that it resulted in a scummy claim. Feels planned and shady af if you ask me.
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@MisterChris
I argued that he was most likely innocent. No one listened. So here we are. That's why post #25 exists. Also, the idea that I'd have insider info is bs. I always reserved the possibility of Speed being mafia. I just argued that it was most likely not the case.
I mean to make it sound like you argued for him being innocent tooth and nail just isn't true. I looked into the end of that day phase to make sure.
"It's not ideal.. But I want to give Grey the opportunity to give us information through his tracking ability, and I also don't quite buy needing to lynch speed"
Not quite buying the need to lynch speed = / = arguing his innocence lol.
Then you were even considering lynching him! So this is a lie in general.
"Alright, maybe. But I'll only seriously consider a vote if it's clear Speed is going to be lynched. Get some more support and I'll be tempted (like 1-2 votes away). As much as I'd hate to vote without much evidence, if the town is in universal agreement I don't really see a reason for my biases to stand in the way."
If you were so convinced he was town why would you say this at all? From my perspective it looks like you weren't too phased that he was about to be lynched at all, so trying to use your lack of vote on him as evidence that you are town does the opposite for me lol.
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