Total posts: 234
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
In response to Pattern’s suspicion, let me make some arguments in my defense.I have regularly expressed my distaste at both a Speed and Grey lynch, and I’ve turned out to be correct. The results of DP1 looks bad for everyone else, not me. As there was no other wagon to jump on, and no other leads to speak of, I withheld my vote and focused on gathering intel for DP2.
See this doesn't help me feel better about you though. I would have rather you been on one of the wagons and been wrong for a better town feeling. Scum will frequently stay off a mislynch knowing it will look good for them the next day. The fact that you didn't take a stance makes you look a little worse for me, and this post looks almost like your bragging about it. You couldn't have known speed was town unless you had inside information, and acting post confident about it looks like an attempt to build town cred.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
How many games do you see roleblocker as town as opposed to scum roleblocker?
Obviously not that many. Same with PGO though, and whatever else weird claim speed had. If you are suggesting that it's more likely ragnar is scum here, maybe. But if ragnar is scum, I would also so is pie. This situation feels a little weird, and at only 1 mislynch I am not sure scum ragnar would pull something like this unless they were to do it craftily, and this feels craftier than your average bus. Pie's claim for example, he had to have known that would be scummy. It almost seems like he is okay with being lynched so ragnar will look town. If pie is scum, I don't think we should clear ragnar for it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
I found it, it was actually singularity's role in pie's game.
That doesn't look the best for pie I realize. Still would like to hear from the people I mentioned though.
Created:
Posted in:
Some things I want to say before we get too into the day phase as I won't be around much in the evening:
1. Speed's lynch was unfortunate, I wasn't sold on him til the end because he had a mounting wagon and it seemed he was trying to act non-chalant about it where he was passionate about being mis-lynched in the previous game. I was wrong and that sucks. I don't think his claim did him any favors though, if I wasn't convinced about him before that solidified his claim. The claim was inherently scummy so I can see why he wouldn't want to claim it initially, but I also don't see why he claimed anything at all. At least this flip looks good for what GP was saying about his claim.
2. Why are we making assumptions about what happened with the night kill? I guess Ragnar roleblocking pie is one of many options, but I think it is more likely That1user was targetted because of doctor suspicions, considering that was a good portion of last day phases talks. That or he hid behind mafia is almost more likely. Considering he was town reading bearman pretty well, that doesn't ease my suspicions of bearman in the slightest.
3. Didn't supa have a solider in south park mafia? I know he likes the roles that are "different". I kind of believe the claim for now, though I will probably reflect on this; I don't see pie's behavior and reaction to speed's claim being non-authentic last day phase.
4. People I would like to focus on this day phase are as follows:
MisterChris: He was one of the only people who didn't vote by the end of the day phase though it seemed he was online since his last post was just before speed claimed. He seemed very non-committal to me, and I don't get the vibe that he has any interest in figuring the game out. This is his first game, so I take that into account, but I also take him to be one of the more logical and thorough individuals, and I don't feel like he was even trying to scum hunt. After my lynch didn't seem plausible he had posted a few times about how exhaustive the phase was, but ultimately just didn't seem to be burning any reads.
Bearman: Continued on the reasons from yesterday: Ousting the doc, denying it was anti-town, later admitting it was anti-town, got extremely defensive, unvoted the omgus wagon when it wasn't convienent, was town read by that1user who died, meaning it was likely that1user hid behind him, then he was all too eager to wagon at the end of the day phase.
Croc: Assuming this is a different person from bearman, all he has done is emphasize bearmans points, and admit to lurking.
Skittlez: Pretty much only responded to me last phase, made 0 use of the day phases time. Helped 0 towards progressing the game. Looked very defensive when he voted me. That said, this might be a town tell because from the past 2 games I've seen him as scum, he's been less likely to defend himself. That said, he needs to contribute more today.
Out of all these, croc is my biggest focus right now, if he isn't going to participate, he needs to do something to ease our worries of him, like claim or something.
vtl crocodile.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
The justification is the same as my PGO justification. I did not know there would be a policy on me. AND I LITERALLY SAID WHY I CLAIMED PGO like actually read sir
Pie has been pushing a policy on you for half the day phase and you've had a substantial wagon for half the day phase: you know the half wagon you kept ignoring as not a big deal? Now your acting ignorant of it? BS.
Created:
Posted in:
If speed is that role his actions make no sense. If he was trying to lie to prevent being night killed, why did he even claim in the first place? There was no reason for that. PGO claim would have scared town investigators though so it makes sense frmo scum perspective.
Created:
Posted in:
Makes no sense for town to have a strongman, that assumes mafia have protection, and it doesn't make sense for town to protect against town or for you to lie about it in that circumstance.
I really don't get why you lied. Or why you even claimed to begin with if thats your real role.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Bearman OMGUS's once + does something I consider towny = town read
Bears OMGUS is his only contribution to the game! LITERALLY HIS ONLY CONTRIBUTION THIS GAME lol. So how badly do you really scum read OMGUS or is that all convoluted BS?
You OMGUS more than once + do multiple things I consider scummy = scum readHow is that hypocritical
I question the motives of anyone who wagons without providing their own reasons, that's hardly the same as OMGUS. I haven't been adovcating the lynch of every person who has voted for me the way Bear has. You refusing to acknowledge bear doing is and forgiving him for it is sus af.
I haven't even gotten past 3 votes lol. No reason to put effort into steering something that's steering itself. Also I really love this description because it makes me seem to awesome
3 votes is a lot, and is plenty of reason to respond to. That's about where I was at when I started getting frustrated. Your air of confidence comes from knowing the day phase is ending soon and you think it unlikely to happen, but that doesn't erase that their is mounting pressure on you that you are not responding to similarly to the last game.
You're not even my top scum read lol, I've given scum reads on That and GP, and I might've on Croc as well
What changed? because as of last night I was. You didn't mention these other users until we were getting close to not getting a lynch.
No lol me thinking that outing a doctor is protown (even though I said it's anti-town) has no bearing on me thinking That1User is Doc or town
You make no sense.
Created:
Posted in:
Speed in bastard states mafia when he was being lynched:
"Why is town always composed of idiots!"
"Please don't do a mass claim tomorrow. Lynch Disc first thing.
SUPA DON'T YOU DARE USE YOUR COP ON DISC use it on LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE
Someone watch Supa if you can, or vig Disc if you can"
Where is that same passion at being lynched? He seems more calm and collected, and is even defending town actions in the game he was town and called them all idiots! Now he is defending that they made correct choices in his responses to me. There is a stark contrast to how he has played previously.
Created:
Posted in:
Okay we got another 2 hours, so we have a bit more time to talk about it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
@WaterPhoenix
@skittlez09
@BearMan
4 minutes left, wanna meet in the middle on speed? Otherwise its gonna be a no lynch and I am not as comfortable with grey
Created:
Posted in:
Vote Count
VTNL [1/7] Chris
Speedrace [5/7] oromagi, Pie, Grey, pattern, that1user
Greyparrot [5/7] Speedrace, Water, skittlez, BearMan, Ragnar
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Also, why has no one responded to my scum read of That? I would like thoughts on them
oh you mean that1user! I don't see where you scum read him, I'll go look. But prima facie that makes no sense for you to town read bear for ousting him if you scum read that1user, since bear was claiming he was doing it to help town, and if you agree with what he was doing was protown, then you should have believed that sakura claim was more likely town.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
Look, I just disagreed with your original reasoning. BearMan is just not hitting any of my scum alarm bells.
Are you doubling down on this because you don't want to be ashamed of being wrong, or do you really think his lurky behavior is pro town?He has done nothing but OMGUS me and then unvote when it seemed convienent to do so.
Both of you reacted equally poorly imo. Doesn't really amount to evidence
His response was ltieral OMGUS, denying he did something wrong, to later acknowledging he did something wrong by matter of reply.... Why couldn't he just outright say what he did was wrong? Why do you not think what he did was wrong when you yourself didn't want to out the doctor?
Bear just doesn't hit my mafia alarm bell man. It's not that I haven't been paying attention to him. We can revisit the subject in DP2
The majority of the qoutes are theme theory, that should be a null tell at best, unless you assume the mafia team have no knowledge on the theme.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
I already said that I think him outing the doctor is towny.
Thinking that defies all logic.
Also, why has no one responded to my scum read of That? I would like thoughts on them
What? I am confused what you mean.
Created:
Posted in:
Wanted to make a bigger case against speed, but since Supa is ending the day phase early, here is why I am voting speed:
1. Hypocrisy! Dude has consistently said I was OMGUS'ing everyone who has voted for me, which is objectively just not true; But secondly The whole reason I am really pushing bear is because Bear hardcore omgus'ed me for pointing out 1 scummy thing he did! Why does speed care about me "OMGUSing" but not bear? Ironically I actually see a world where bear is town and Speed is scum, and speed using bear as an avenue to try and get what he feels is an easier lynch on me by proxy of using MisterChris's bias here, rather than him actually buddy-buddying Bear. Though it is very possible he is doing that. The fact he doesn't even read bear except for a fake @ss soudning town read on him for the reason I suspected him doesn't help his case. The read feels convoluted, a way to double down after I have proven him wrong. Which leads into the second reason:
2. Speed behavior at his won wagon seems calm and calculated; He has an air of seemingly knowing he won't get lynched, and as such is why he isn't fighting his lynch. Him and GP are the two biggest lynch options right now and he doesn't even seem phased, and has put minimal effort into steeering the lynch elsewhere the way he did as town in the previous game.
3. This feels more calm and calculated. His reads don't seem broad, and all he has done is double down on me, seemingly not scum hunting or looking into anyone else behaviorally. This doesn't feel like town speed.
VTL speedrace.
Created:
Posted in:
Finding a theme split isnt possible til we have flips like oro said
Created:
Posted in:
Dude look how fast he popped in at the mention of his name lol. Dude is lurking like mad
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
@MisterChris
@WaterPhoenix
The fact that not a single user has independent reads on bearman just makes me suspect him more after the attempts to silence my opinion by dis-regarding it as tunnel vision.
I've already mentioned it wasn't the strongest evidence to say he is scum; The fact that he reacted to poorly to that pressure was what was scummy. Also the fact that he finally admitted it was a mistake in a reply, but defended his action at the same time was also the scummier part.
Chris, speed, water you can dis-agree with that specific read. Do you not have any other read on the man though? I heard people saying he was being helpful to town, can you elaborate on this? How has he been helpful? The fact that he listed a bunch of characters showing he has theme knowledge? Is that quite literally it? Please. I would really like some enlightenment.
Created:
Posted in:
Is bearman town confirmed by proxy with people not agreeing with me that his attempt to oust was not anti-town? Does anyone suspect him anymore, or are you so mad about my read that your are just gonna pass him off as town for the rest of the game? Interested to know lol because no one is talking about him. The only reason anyone has mentioned him is to tell me I am being foolish in my read. No other independent reads on the man? No? okay cool.
Created:
Posted in:
Town has gotta have some useless visiting role that can be used to test speedrace...
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
Pie and Oro maintain that Speedrace is fishy with mounting pressure. Pie says that a 1st day lynch is smart, and a policy lynch of Speedrace is the most sensible choice. Pattern jumps on board,
I did not jump on board sir
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Linking his is more efficient than typing out the exact same stuff lol. And the vote stuff is valid, just not allowed by the COC. As long as you can clearly explain the reasons if directly asked, you're justified.
To the bolded: But not many people actually do that. Both in debating and in mafia. I've asked multiple people to justify themselves this game. So far your among very few that have. Look at skittlez, I asked him to justify a read and he doubled down and voted me because of it. Btw I don't see you point to OMGUS at that haha.
I'm saying that whether or not it was anti-town is irrelevant because it's towny. And he did eventually explain his motivations.
Explaining motivations= not guilty?
If you become a cop I'd love to be your local robber.
Cop: "Sir did you just steal that thing?"
Robber: "Yeah but you see I really needed that thing, so ya know..."
Cop: "Ah okay, well now that I know your motivation I guess your free to go."
These are the facts:
Ousting doctors is bad for town.
Bear, not being brand new, should know this.
Bear doubles down and defends his action.
Bear never directly admits his mistake, but later in replies refers to it as a mistake.
Why does Bear have an excuse to do an anti-town thing? Would you let me get away with something like that?
I've read literally everything so try again.\
If you have, then you mis-understand what aggression is.
Looking back I think it was because you were roleplaying, the way you did it make you seem pompous and self-assured which caused an air of aggression, at least to me.And I should've said tunneled, being aggressive isn't inherently scummy
Pattern is a logic spren who doesn't understand human emotions, so I must have been roleplaying badly if I came off as pompous. There were certain points I was literally just qouting things from the book in situations where it humorously seemed like it fit haha.
OMGUS doesn't necessarily have to involve voting, it can be just general scum reading. You've scum read literally every person who has said something negative about you and a lot of them have given reasons.
This is objectively not true. Again, not every response to someone is necessarily suspecting them lol.
I've been in your spot multiple times, but I never self-voted, hence why you self-voting makes me think you're scum lol.
I don't usually self vote either, but I was feeling at a boiling point after the way the last few games have gone. And now I am genuinely more okay with the idea of a lynch of myself anyway. At least someone gave me the time of day and responded to something. Even though you are wrong, I am happy dying in circumstances where I got to say my piece and can confidently say it was listened to and reasoned with. I wouldn't judge you as hard in the endgame.
II'm very busy so linking Chris' post for example is just easier for me if I have to catch up on like 10 pages before going back to work. Next time maybe just ask "why are you voting me" instead of insta-scum reading someone
I asked you why you were voting me several times, remember? Your response to me was "For the third time, read this post" and thus the circle spins back around....
Also I didn't realize you were bald lol
Yeah TheFlyingSpaghettiMonster really had it out for me in the gene pool.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Because there were 12 players, so it had a perfect 9 to 3 town to mafia ratio. It's really unlikely to put 3-P's in games like those where the ratio is perfect
There's actually very few set ups where you can actually consider third parties balanced. You've probably noticed I rarely put them in games I mod, and that is why. They really only make sense in small game situations like 6 player counts, 1 maf, 1 3rd, and 4 towns. And mods should count them towards town numbers when factoring the win imo for best balance. All that aside, we have no way of knowing how a mod will design a game with thirds. Your own game, the one I wasn't lynched in, the balance made even less sense as it allowed for like 1 mislynch. Not shaming you for an old game, just pointing out that most mods don't really consider the balance implications when designing the game. They have a character that to them makes most sense as 3p and just throw it in and hope for the best.
This is what you sound like:You (mafia): Haha guys I'm third party rektttttTown: Uh that doesn't make sense because of the perfect ratio + behavioral reasons *lynches you*You: HOW DARE YOU LYNCH ME, I COULD'VE BEEN THIRD PARTY...but you weren't
The part with you quoting town? Yeah didn't happen. Supa is the only one who mentioned anything about numbers not making sense (again refuted above) and literally everyone else just voted.
For the investigating you stuff, sure lol. But the lynch was justified
If it was justified, I'd have liked to have heard why during the game, not after it ;-) Also supa was a hypocrite that game. In Stormlight he got mislynched dp1 before he even knew he had a wagon. He had a right to be pissed off there. But then went and did it to me in dp1 of the very next game. Remember he was "gut" reading me without a reason from DP1 based on a ridiculous argument (that was wrong btw) about mod psyching how roles were set up.
Supa: "Second, you seem to want to be kept alive, if you won already, you shouldn't care", "I have a strong time believing that justification at all. It just seems like a cop out fmpov", "Because I had a feeling your scum buddy was gonna try to drive the train away from you and focus on someone else. Furthermore, I think this is a gambit that you are doing to prevent yourself from getting lynched, playing the "third party" role. I have a hard time believing that was your motivation. I think you did that to prey on a noob. With GP, you were much more subtle and outted yourself in general", "Lunatic literally has no utility to town besides his "support." You don't even know if he's lying. ", "I still think your bullshitting this entire thing. It just seems to convenient IMO", "2) it's a 12 person setup, the optimal formula is 9v3, a 9v2v1 is a disadvantage.", "3) yes, but i believing you are lying just by behavior, and yes i am aware. i am saying you are lying",Did Supa have some bad reasons for voting you? Absolutely, but he had some very good ones too. The vote wasn't unsubstantiated in the slightest.
All of his "behavior" arguments were unsubstantiated 100%. Saying you read someone based on behavior and not explaining what that behavior is, isn't a behavioral read. It was a gut read. How do you respond to a gut read logically? You can't, and in general lynching people off gut reads alone is not encouraged the same way vigging people on them isn't.
"A guilty means you are anti town, whatever your role is. "He's technically right, the drafterman list cops 3-P who can win with town as innocent. I was too busy to say this in the DP. He didn't know that ofc but still.
Most mods usually mod 3ps as guilty as status qou, though I like drafters method. I think common understanding is 3p = guilty regardless of intent.
Also, warren literally says this: "For what it's worth I have [put third parties] in 10 player games before."
Which is what I was saying...
Also if I recall correctly, during one of the quickfires you literally said that we should policy lynch 3p's lol. I could be wrong tho
You're probably thinking of Pie. I'm generally pretty against policy lynches in general. I think the only one I've pushed is policy lynching troll behavior like greyparrots.
Also intermission, you said this in that game and I meant to respond but forgot but I was reading over everything and this made me remember: "Speed is a new mod, he literally asked me for help balancing his last game. And you... Well, how do I put this nicely?"New is a stretch, and just because I'm a new mod doesn't mean my style of counting 3p's is incorrect lol
Like I said, accounting for 3p's your generally gonna have badly balanced matches. That doesn't mean a mod is or isn't likely to include one in their games.
They agreed with his reasons. That's not a crime (although I'm sure there were some that voted with out thinking lol so you'd be justified for being mad at them)
People didn't say that. They just voted. You can assume they agreed with his reasons, but thats an assumption, and you know what they say about assumers...
...but you weren't, so this is a moot point lol
And you wouldn't have cared if you were wrong lol. That's even worse of a problem. That's "Bearman" logic. Bearman was lynching me in this game saying even if I was town he was justified. The mindset of "I'm not gonna learn from being wrong because I don't care" Is a slippery slope that leads to making repeat mistakes.
So this is really just you being mad that your gambit didn't go how you planned lol
The point is I would have liked to have been given the time of day and on almost any game of DDO I would have. The fact that players are too lazy to even care to think about why someone would or wouldn't do something and just vote on something based on face value says a lot about the current mafia community.
Clearly you did hear plenty of solid reasons as outlined above
Post game, not in game.
Totally different. In my game I literally said there was a 3P at the start lol. And the lynch would not have happened anyway because the factors that led us to lynch you in the first place would've been different (e.g., the ratio would've been acceptable for 3P, your attitude would've more closely matched your attitude when you were lyncher in my game, etc.).
The ratio was off from the start what you mean lol.
And if the factors weren't different well then you would've been lynched because logic pointed towards you being scum
But I wasn't.... OH sh1t see what I did there ;-)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@skittlez09
i dont think pattern is scum but so far hes proven himself to be unhelpful towards town an is wasting our timeVTL pattern
What do you consider to be helpful? I have given reads and contributed on nearly every page of this game. I make up over a sixth of the total posts.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Meh it's not really a nuclear war now lol it's kinda simmered down into a friendly discussion of the rights and wrongs of playing mafia. Still think he's scum but I'm ok leaving it up to a cop or whoever. Very much want to lynch GP
This x1000. Beat me to it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
So, I urge you two to call off the nuclear warfare... For now, anyway. If new evidence emerges, we can discuss... But I see little use in continuing drilling that rabbit hole further.
No, no, no! Stop using verbiage like this lol. That is an obligatory "lol" because I have to make everything I say seem light-hearted other wise it get's misconstrued as "Nuclear Warfare" or "Aggressiveness". I am not sure if you are reading the dialogue closely, but it's not aggressive or nuclear I promise. At least I don't see it that way, but maybe I am just socially mis-understood. This is a debate site right? To debate, two parties engage in discussion. If I dis-agree with something you say, I should point that out. That's part of the appeal of mafia! I feel like you guys see any long post or back and forth and instantly assume it's toxic. If you actually read through me and Speed's discussion, you'll see both of us agreeing in situations or conceding certain points. You got to get this visual of two people conversating as screaming at the top of their lungs out of your head lol. Not just you, everyone who thinks long replies = nuclear warfare. Maybe DDO was just different in nature, but most games had long discussions like this and I never usually thought of them as toxic.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Omw home should be there in like 40 minutes, and I'll respond to the rest
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@skittlez09
#444 speaks for itself
Not a personal attack; I genuinely think that user is multi-accounting. They wagon everything the other says and croc convienently pops online similar times to bearman just to come to his defense. But if supa is allowing them both in what do? I allowed them in my game too. Don't have hard evidence to say for a fact, but it's kind of obvious. Dude had also just got done insulting me, so I think it's fair to fight fire with fire. He had called me useless multiple times before that, which you fail to mention since it fit's your narrative.
you've also been calling lots of people lazy ex. #454
Again, it's a fact. People can prove me wrong here by actually playing and providing reasons with their votes.
ur still not explaining what wagons ive hopped oni wasnt on the wagon trying to lynch u and i still dont think ur scumive been out of the house basically the whole way im doing the best i can to catch upbeen answering any question thrown my way so far dont see what im doing wrong exactlyive given u my reads and opinions dont see how thats "bandwagoning"my opinions are my opinions.
I didn't say you hopped on a wagon? You opined about potentially hopping on a wagon. This game requires you to substantiate opinions.
willing to lynch yall isnt the same as believing u guys to be scum
Lynching townies is anti-town. Why would you do that?
f the rest of town wanted me to lynch u guys i wouldve given some respect to their wishes an gone along with it despite me disagreeing with it
That's bandwagoning. Don't do that.
again, u still havent explained the "wagon" ive hoppedive said this before an ill say it again my opinions are my opinions and ive given u my reasonsthis is just a waste of time and i wont go any furtherif u wanna discuss this on endgame ill do it but rn we should focus on figuring out whose scum
All I am suggesting is that you explain your opinons and actually play lol. Relax.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
That's not how bandwagoning works lol. Grey, for example, is bandwagoning, because he does it for no reason. I'm not required to come up with an independent reason to lynch someone; if that was true, no one would ever get lynched. If I agree with someone else's read on you then it's justified for me to vote you based on the reasoning that the other person did.
Mmm so if I go to vote on a debate, and I agree with someone else's vote, can I just vote and say "yeah, what he said!"? That's like the definition of bandwagoning.
You say you agree with so and so, then point out what specifically you agree with in your own words. You literally linked Misterchris's entire block of text.
I already mentioned you in a post and explained why I think that it was towny of him to do that (it's possible for it to be anti-town and towny simultaneously).
Are you trying to say it fits in with bears meta to do something anti town where you wouldn't treat another player the same? If so that's fine and I buy the argument somewhat. But Bear's reaction to me pointing out that he did a bad thing was the scummier part of the exchange.
Read this post after I voted him: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4683-naruto-mafia-dp1?page=10&post_number=243
He says I was accusing everyone, rather than try to logically explain his motivations and persuade me to reconsider.
You've been extremely aggressive towards multiple players
The only person I was actually aggressive with was croc/bearman when I mentioned they multi account and still can't win a mafia game. That's literally all the aggression lol. Why does everyone see large blocks of text, refuse to read them, and just interpret any back and forth as "aggressive"? Or do you mean the fact that I am actually pressuring people is aggressive? If so that's ridiculous, and if anything a town tell. Town have to figure out who scum is so pressuring people for reactions is the only way to do that. If I was really aggressive, I've had several opportunities to join your or grey's wagon, and I'm still opting to no lynch. Kind of the opposite of aggressive.
All this aside... Why is "being aggressive" a scum tell? Even if I was 'aggressive' I tend to notice aggression comes from more of a place of honesty.
You've OMGUSd literally everyone who has even dared to say a bad word about you (exxageration but still)
Your understanding of OMGUS is not correct. If you assume I have jumped on the wagon of every person who has voted me, that's just wrong. I do have an expectation for every player that if they are going to vote, they justify that vote. If someone jumps on a wagon without justifying said vote, I will naturally lean toward suspecting their motives. Why is challenging someone to explain a read "Omgus"? There are certain players I expect this behavior out of. People like you, pie, chris, or ragnar I expect more from.
You self-voted
I'll concede this, and my vote is still on myself. I don't like doing it in general but when I did this it seemed my position was pretty hopeless and if you were in my spot I think you would feel similar. People kept piling on my wagon without justifying it (yourself included) and if the game is going to be played like that, I'd honestly rather mafia win and keep winning games until town decide to fix this behavior that has unfortunately become commonly accepted.
You're frustrations about your possible lynch this DP are very similar to your frustrations about your lynch as lone wolf
Again, it's not the lynch that's frustrating, it's the lack of knowing why I am being lynched. You for example didn't say any of these things when you first voted for me. If you had maybe I would have been less frustrated. I have the expectation of people to put an effort into the the game. I love mafia and I hate to see the gameplay dwindle regardless of my affiliation. Frustrated gameplay for me is not affiliation related, and you've played enough with me that this should be evident. Remember office mafia? That was the epitome of frustrated Lunatic, and you used that to your advantage.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
Going to bed early. No DP1 lynch doesn’t seem like the end of the world, even if it definitely shouldn’t be repeated later.
+1
Plus there's been plenty of dialogue, gives investigators plenty of options for tonight.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Yo Can we please leave the previous game out of this
Even the relevant parts relating to behavior?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Unrelated to game right now: I said the same thing, yet he claimed to hear the defense. I think it's salt tbh, nothing more and nothing less. If anyone was to fake a CC, they are a top scum read
Again, MCU mafia. Why was I allowed to live and help the town there? Supa, supa, supa. You are generally a nice guy, but don't try to deny you aren't as lazy as the rest of them son.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Okkkkkk, first of all I genuinely believe that you are scum.
Feel free to explain why at any point. Literally any point. When I last asked you, you just linked misterchris's reasons, which is a bandwagon. I also pointed out the hypocrisy in MisterChris's reasons, since he literally agreed with me that ousting a potential doc was anti-town and which was why he didn't do it himself. Bear plays like a noob, sure, but he isn't one. He's played in several games and knows that behavior is scummy. Maybe it didn't make as much sense coming from pattern who you supposed was new, but do you see why an experienced player finds his actions scummy? If not please let's go through this point by point. Don't just link someone else's case and pretend like that isn't wagoning. Say what you agree with in said case.
Secondly, in that last game I also believed you were scum because there was no reason for there to be a 3-P
Why was there no reason to be a 3rd party? How could you know that?
also because you had an almost snarky attitude that you didn't have when you were lyncher in my game
I get snarky when talking to brick walls. I do that as town and scum. Im bald, and somehow supa had me wanting to pull my fvcking hair out lol. Dude kept saying "I know you scum" without substantiating it. And everyone was bandwagoning him. If I was actually 3rd party you guys had wasted a lynch. It's not the lynch that pissed me off, it was the extreme lack of dialogue. The whole point of the gambit was going to be talking my way out of it like I did with the miller claim. If I heard plenty of solid reasons about why I was scum and still got lynched I would have been okay with it. That lynch would have happened regardless of if I was or wasn't actually 3rd party because it was the easy option. At least in your game I was able to help town afterwards.
the only reason I insta-hammered instead of talking with peeps about it is because I didn't want someone to unvote because I figured at that point there'd be no way that you'd get lynched.
Fair enough.
1. There's no serious threat of me being lynched, more players are against my lynch than for it, so there's no reason to be urgent. Last game the lynch was mounting very quickly on me.
Fair enough, I guess but these wagons can happen quickly.
2. Last game, Disc lying directly told me that he was almost definitely scum. In this case me being PGO doesn't tell me who is scum lol so I can't say who to lynch next DP.
Disc actually had the telescope though lol
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
It's just he keeps saying he's "planning something." But he's never openly questioned anyone here, or expressed any interest into what's going on. He has given no evidence he is following the conversation, much less concocting a master plan. I feel that either the tracking role is wasted on him, or he is more aware than we think.. and his inactivity is intentional.
The hard thing with greyparrot is that he acts that way as both town and scum. You can go and look at any game he is been in to see this. He frequently claims dp1 if he has a power role, and then just bandwagons. If he is scum he does the same thing. I used to be for policy lynching him for it, but he still doesn't learn, and still plays the same way. He's played that way for years, going back to DDO. It's just what he does. He could easily be town here, and his non chalance is not really a scum tell. I as third party counter claimed him once because I was a lyncher. He was totally calm and cool with it, the same he is here about being lynched. He plays this game without any cares. All I am saying is that it's hard to read into. If we lynch him here, it would be kind of a policy lynch, so in a way I'd be a bit hypocritical to pie, but I think it's different from other policy based lynches.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@skittlez09
first of all you've made several personal, attacks, made tons of false accusations, and now that im catching up im finding out that youve been lunatic this whole time
Several personal attacks? Please link said attacks lol.
secondly how am i bandwagoning exactly?
Your not caught up on the game, you popped on saw a couple of wagons and only opined on them. What about every other player in the game?
im not even voting to lynch u im voting for a vtnl cuz i dont think neither of u are scum
You said you were willing to lynch either of the wagons though, if you didn't think either were scum why would you say that?
everyone else was tryna lynch u not me
Yet you were willing to hop on a wagon
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Actually I forgot to account for a Mafia Scout. Another question for you: is there a scenario where you see both Speed and GP as scum
Yes, grey's not beyond bussing.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
I disagree. As I said, it’s a last case scenario for me when we as a town don’t have a consensus.
Last case scenario or not, policy lynching is not a precedent I would like to set based on how often it results in mislynches.
Between that and before MYLO/LYLO are the parameters. I don’t agree with a GP wagon because Tracker is a bold claim for any scum to make unless you think it’s a fake claim. Millers and PGOs require more effort from a town member in my opinion. They have to actively try in the game to scumhunt to stay alive which is beneficial to town. We’ve had millers go to MYLO and LYLO where it has worked out for us because of scum hunting. Speed should 100% be lynched over GP tho
I'll consider it. Actually now that I think about it, he doesn't seem to be putting in a lot of effort to defend himself. In the last game he was lynched, he seemed a lot more passionate, and was telling town who to take action on the next day phase. If I end up voting for him, it will be closer to the phases end. We still have plenty of time. The problem with greyparrot is the usual one; If he's scum he could skate by the whole game with minimal activity while we tear each others heads off. Remember: "An active town will eat itself in the presence of inactive scum. Inactives should always be pressured."
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
honestly what I gave you was almost a direct cut and paste from the PM from Supa.When I die youre gonna be like...wtf that's what Supa gave him as a role justification? For tracker???Seriously.
Fair enough.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Greyparrot
Yeah you are too much of a loose cannon to expect you would go with what town wants, probably best to lynch ya.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
I highly disagree with this course of action.
I've changed my mind on it anyway, because public discussion of night actions generally allows mafia too many ways to manipulate.
Why do we want GP, a claimed, unCCed tracker to test Speed’s PGO? If you don’t trust Speed then help me policy lynch him. You know PGO is a scummy claim and my partner in the live game did it outright. We should waste a power role on a PGO?
I don't want to policy lynch people who claim millers and pgo's, because mods aren't gonna stop putting them in the game. All policy lynching will do is get millers and pgo's to stop claiming which will result in more harmful effects for town. Wasted cop results and dead power roles. Grey is a bigger risk in my opinion and I only slightly scum read speed for wagoning, but it's not like half the player pool aren't guilty of the same thing. But I am scarred from the PressF game that happened 8 months ago where grey got away with being inactive and bandwagoning. The circumstances around grey's claim were sketchy and he never really answered what his role link was just listed off random information about sasuke. Also sasuke as a character is way worse than Gaara. Gaara is more likely town or 3rd party based on the show.
Created:
Posted in:
Btw this is more productive than I'm used to seeing water in mafia. It's a stark contrast to his play in stormlight and I am thinking he is probably town. That also combined with the fact he didn't get his role pm til late.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
but...none of this has anything to do with tracking...
If he is town, it's more likely because grey is too lazy to understand that we were asking for a link to his role from his character.
If he is scum it's a random list of information about his character he either researched or his mafia buddies gave to him though it still doesn't technically answer the question chris was asking.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@skittlez09
in regards to ur question earlier is vote u over speed cuz you've been acting a bit off in the game
explain "off" please
i think ur just a noobish town whose making some mistakes weve all been there i aint got no beef or nothing
My old account was lunatic, I am not a noob... Also what mistakes did I make? This has nothing to do with beef just wanting you to actually substantiate instead of bandwagoning. Laziness will get you no where, just like the last two games man.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
also, your plan is assuming that mafia won't just let gp run into speed's pgo (assuming speed is pgo). making it so that there's two people dead.
Why would two die? Should just be grey, and assuming theres another night kill speed would look town. Though I suppose maf could forfeit the nk to make him look town...
also, if there's only one death, wouldn't the pressure also be on gp as he could've just not gone to speed cause he was mafia?
I mean grey might not go along with it anyway as town so its probably a bad plan.
I guess we can lynch grey.
Created: