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@FLRW
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@FLRW
I do not know much of the individual agenda of Oz, so I will not comment. I can tell you that Islam is a fundamentally problematic ideology for left-wing Progressives and Liberals in theory and practise. Sharia is as right-wing as it gets, point blank period.
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Warning, this is a hot take
I have been a significantly worried left wing progressive due to the increased population and influence of Islamic immigrants in western culture for some time and kept my mouth shut for fear of bigotry calls but it is not just them at all.
The actual cultures and ideologies that the left of US wing defend immigrating heavily to their nations are as far right as it gets.
Who?
Mexico? Syria? Brazil? Argentina? Peru? Puerto Rico? Ukraine? Pakistan, India (which has Muslims and even the Hindus are quite right-wing depending on subculture variation, the Sikhs lean left).
I support the immigration, I do and I love the refugee influx from Ukraine (but resent that Ukraine hasn't allowed its men to surrender and flee, they are trapped for slaughter or capture at this point, I am a realist not a fairytale writer, I loathe Putin but a lost war is a lost war).
I support the immigration, I repeat it to make it clear.
I do not support the lack of direct integration. Only Scandinavia does direct integration, they force the immigrants to study for exams on western, leftist values if they wish to become true citizens at any point and even to do business and long-term work there they need to do it.
This is something the left puke at but do you really think no immigrants are voting for Republicans? These are severely conservative Christians and Muslims, use your damn head!
We must realise that we, the Left, fucked ourselves over by embracing the most homophobic, anti contraceptive, anti-abortion, anti-social-democracy cultures out there.
It is time to seriously sit and consider if it remains a smart idea to amicably be embracing the same ideology that all Sharia nations are based on and the very Christian conservative cultures of South America, which are anti-LGBT, anti,-abortion, brutally anti-feminism and basically anti-left altogether.
I am saying we need to show them respect, not disrespect. We must respect their core values are deeply right wing and conservative and ponder if the right wing has actually been inadvertently been a taboo deterrent to their own agenda's success.
If this offends you, I dont say this irl for a reason. Please let me have a safe space here free from cancel culture.
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@rbelivb
I am left wing, I vote left wing, I breathe left wing and I know left wing for what it really is.
I support making society fairer and merciful on the struggling and do things here and elsewhere to always approach even website moderation from a left-wing perspective, let alone irl situations but I'm also a realist, if I help my neighbour or somebody in general and can get a gain out of it financially or otherwise, I'm not going to be some super humble socialist.
I also do not know how or why I need to support slaughtering fetuses as an okay thing, I see abortions up to 12-14 weeks as a necessary evil since society (in most places) isn't truly left-wing yet and some irresponsible morons will fuck unprotected even if you provide them contraceptives.
I am so left-wing that my left-wing philosophy also applies to how I want to nurture and protect the fetuses.
I know what I am, I know what I support. You see a thread here or quote there about cancel culture and think you know me. I would fucking risk my safety to assist a victim of anti-trans hate crime irl and stick up for somebody being severely bullied for something. You don't fucking know me, I know when it's time to stick up and when to keep my head down and not pick beef.
I pick the battles that matter, go ahead and say I'm not a real left-winger like you know my fucking life and values. I know what matters, I know where it genuinely counts to be left wing and screaming LGBT pride, waving a rainbow flag and celebrating the right to slaughter fetuses loud and proud is not what being left-wing is about. Being left wing is about quietly doing volunteer work here, helping your family and/or friends there, being a helpful, useful person when you can and when it truly matters. Being somebody people can rely on and who would stick up for anybody in your workplace against even your closest ally there when injustice occurs.
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@Mharman
To my understanding Danielle is a form of right-wing Libertarian who sides with Dems becuase she hates conservative social policy.
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@Intelligence_06
Not true. It is very clearly stated in 2 different places in the old testament but I find strong bisexual or even gay vibes from Jesus throughout the bible, I think he genuinely did things with John.
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@SkepticalOne
As long as you also stand by that psychopathic mindset for the rich helping the poor, elderly and/or disabled, I can see consistency in your core framework.It seems you are having difficulty addressing my arguments. There is quite a difference between being required to allow one's body to be used for the benefit of others and charity.
I talked about welfare and public institutions and services, not charity itself.
A premature born baby is needy, drains resources of others to sustain and you would say it is cool if we terminate it if the hospital and parents say bye to him/her.What are you talking about? Infanticide is, and should remain, illegal.
Unless they're unborn, then it's free pickings to you.
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@sadolite
What's the moral difference between spaying and nuetering those who wont control their reproductive system and aborting the babies they produce. Isn't the ability to control your reproductive system one of the key differences between being human and just another animal?
Very true. We have all kinds if foreplay to enjoy and dildos, flashlights etc to use if one needs the sensation.
Contraceptives exist but should be more readily available to the poor.
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@Intelligence_06
In the Allah iteration it was made crystal clear that himosexuality is a terrible sin to the deity portrayed in the trilogy.
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@SkepticalOne
As long as you also stand by that psychopathic mindset for the rich helping the poor, elderly and/or disabled, I can see consistency in your core framework.
A premature born baby is needy, drains resources of others to sustain and you would say it is cool if we terminate it if the hospital and parents say bye to him/her.
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@Intelligence_06
Nothing about am abortion is natural.
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@SkepticalOne
The dehumanisation of a fetus that we do to justify slaughtering human beings in the womb is no differentI have no need to dehumanize a fetus to justify abortion. I consider the personhood argument against abortion to be irrelevant in fact.
Do you support murder being legalised?
Would you support a mother murdering her infant as it's too inconvenient for her?This question is irrelevant in a different way. Murdering someone in cold blood is not analogous to disallowing use of one's organs.
It is absolutely relevant except that because it's legal we can call it slaughter instead of murder.
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@Intelligence_06
And how do you suppose we miraculously stop a miscarriage?
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Three corners, all-seeing eye in the middle.
God is the illuminati leader whom is also the devil.
OT God becomes Satan.
Lucifer becomes Jesus, not Satan yet he is Satan via Trinity.
Holy Ghost becomes Allah.
This is how and why there were three iterations. It explains every plothole including the problem of evil since the god has three personalities.
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@Intelligence_06
@PREZ-HILTON
Yeah I think he likes the CCP.
He said 'abortion in case of miscarriage' like it is even a point.
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@whiteflame
Yes I did. I didnt strawman, I offered you to choose to strawman yourself or clarify your stance.
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@whiteflame
That is not at all true, you said you refused to say your position out if fear, you still are.
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@whiteflame
Cowards are good at avoiding problems.
Keep avoiding it, at least you admitted you are afraid. At the very least you could admit that abortion is an unbiased variant of psychopathic eugenics.
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@sadolite
Any effort cool. Money and loneliness aren't a factor, eh, easy as pie. Can find a new job just like that.
Have you ever been poor, like truly dirt poor?
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@sadolite
Well I would support the US splitting up, as in allowing the most right-wing States to secede. Not just for abortion at all, it's not about that alone.
I think that the right-wing states have a huge amount of arrogance about themselves and need to appreciate that they rely on the left-wing states for the strong US economy they pride themselves on. I think this is the only way for the US to become a proper modern-day social democracy where the poor can get healthcare and education to standards that are sufficient, let alone existent at all in terms of healthcare.
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@thett3
I'll quote myself from another thread:
To me, as a progressive who is truly on the fence about abortion (and completely against anything past the first 3.5 months outside of medical emergency to save the mother), I see the attitude that the left-wing in general and right-wing Libertarians have towards abortion as akin to what the right-wing have to welfare recipients except this is worse; the welfare recipient at least has been able to live their life.The dehumanisation of a fetus that we do to justify slaughtering human beings in the womb is no different, not one fucking iota different to the dehumanisaton of blacks during slavery or the poor right now today that the right-wing do to justify letting them perish.If we are to say we defend people truly against abuse for the convenience of the lucky/fortunate, we ought to note that the mother got to live her life out, that fetus never did and is 100% a human being, it's a being and is human.Would you support a mother murdering her infant as it's too inconvenient for her?Yes or no.Ask yourself.Is it worse to abuse children or adults? Who actually should we protect harder?
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@SkepticalOne
@Barney
@whiteflame
@oromagi
@FLRW
To me, as a progressive who is truly on the fence about abortion (and completely against anything past the first 3.5 months outside of medical emergency to save the mother), I see the attitude that the left-wing in general and right-wing Libertarians have towards abortion as akin to what the right-wing have to welfare recipients except this is worse; the welfare recipient at least has been able to live their life.
The dehumanisation of a fetus that we do to justify slaughtering human beings in the womb is no different, not one fucking iota different to the dehumanisaton of blacks during slavery or the poor right now today that the right-wing do to justify letting them perish.
If we are to say we defend people truly against abuse for the convenience of the lucky/fortunate, we ought to note that the mother got to live her life out, that fetus never did and is 100% a human being, it's a being and is human.
Would you support a mother murdering her infant as it's too inconvenient for her?
Yes or no.
Ask yourself.
Is it worse to abuse children or adults? Who actually should we protect harder?
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@sadolite
I understand where you are coming from and I think that it's very accurate to say in terms of that if we turn a blind eye to the human rights violations happening in North Korea, let alone Russia rn without true intervention of a forceful freeing sense, we can't then pick and choose when the US government blackmails a 'state' to respect its people's 'rights' in terms of what it deems appropriate, especially if the federal law doesn't stop them restricting it.
I also think another silver lining which you will hate is that this is now allowing a stronger reasoned and concrete 13th Amendment to be instated, guaranteeing the right to abortion.
We will see how this pans out, right now the left-wing media is in a state of hysteria saying this is taking Americans in certain states back to the stone-ages and that contraception etc will get banned. I really hope not.
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@Greyparrot
And we are far from infallible.
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Every dead fetus is the child if the female killing them and the male sperm c9btributor as well.
I am not sexist, some rich men pay women to abort their conceived child if it was an affair.
I think about victims of drug addictions that ruin their body, financial plus mental wellbeing and whole life and ask myself what if that were my loved one or friend. What I ask you is why you do not ask yourself the same question.
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@Vader
Unborn children are not babies or living and have no rights according to the Constitution.
The bolded word is a sheer lie.
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@Greyparrot
Jefferson encouraging a coup
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@Greyparrot
Drunk drivers need help but so do sex addicts and/or people who fuck while high, and drunk and forget to use protection.
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Fuck you. You don't know me, you know nothing about me and using my son ain't going to make me feel bad. I would legalize all drugs. And as long as a person hasn't been talked into it and they chose to do it themself I have no problem with suicide. And grown adults who are with it enough to make decisions should be allowed to be prostitutes and sell their body if they want to. Fuck you.
Alright, so if your son or someone close to you ends up in such a horrible scenario, I hope you will thank the government for not giving a fuck, well the hypothetical government that has enabled severe addiction and self-harm with no interventions permitted unless the person themselves begs for it.
I feel that is a disgusting outlook and understand that you and I are very different in our core morals. Class A drugs being legalised is almost a joke stance to me.
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@Double_R
it wasn't a joke, it was of course comedic but was highlighting that until you make conduct worth 50% of arguments instead of 33.3%, everybody should happily risk losing conduct lol... Especially if it can make the opponent lazier or alternatively more impulsive.
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@zedvictor4
And let's be honest...Most "right wing" baloney in the U.S. is underwritten by biblical bullshit....Or a selfish and hypocritical version thereof.
Focus less on the ad hominem, more on the actual specifics of their hypocrisy.
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@zedvictor4
Protecting life by taking life....That's the baloney for sure.
the words of a man whose privilege of peace is protected by cops, military and Mi5/Mi6 doing it for him.
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@zedvictor4
their stance with guns is also about protecting life but I agree they are hypocrite due to right-wing policy that neglects the poor, disabled and mentally unwell in many forms and shapes.
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@zedvictor4
I don't understand, sorry.
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So long as she isn't a threat to others (though I support intervention if one is self harming, deeply destroying themselves with drugs and/or suicidal)I don't think we should interfere with people's rights to kill themselves or ingest drugs if choose to. Who the f*** are you interfere with their life?
You have a son, you have mentioned him. I need to get personal so you understand how much I genuinely care for my fellow citizen and human being.
What would you feel if he got hooked on drugs? What would you feel if the only way to save him was forceful rehabilitation?
I ask you about him not to start any serious anger or something, you clearly are very emotional about this but I approach the laws of protecting people very seriously.
Would you genuinely legalise heroin and meth?
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A woman has a right to privacy.
Humans have a right to privacy that is strongest when they are past the age of consent and are not mentally unstable or disabled, I agree.
This is true for women, men and genderqueers alike.
She has dominion over her own body.
So long as she isn't a threat to others (though I support intervention if one is self harming, deeply destroying themselves with drugs and/or suicidal).
Whether you like anything she does or not is irrelevant.
Actually if enough people dislike something that someone does, it is relevant but me personally to each and every woman I of course don't matter enough for that to be relevant to the legalisation of the thing they do which I don't like.
I don't care if you think she's a whore, fat, ugly or stupid you don't get to have any say over her decision making.
That is correct and incorrect. We have laws that apply to people and restrict their decision making options if they want to remain legally operating and without law-enforced repercussion when caught and prosecuted.
It is correct that it is regardless of sexual promiscuity, BMI and attractiveness.
Even the man she's chosen to bind her life with, her husband, doesn't have a say over her body.
In a healthy relationship, both should agree to some boundaries though, even if it's open and swinging. That said, I agree and she shouldn't control him severely either unless it's some bdsm dynamic where one likes being set rules and bossed around.
To think a stranger should is the dumbest s*** I've ever heard.
Should have a say over a person's body? What would justify a say then to you? Does anything justify legal intervention restricting what a murderer, rapist, thief, fraud etc can do with their body and activities done with said body?
This is no different than the men who are complaining about trans women they can't stand the idea of females having any sort of power
I am confused. Do you mean complaining about trans men? That would be a female-sex individual who has the male gender role.
or Independence outside of what men decide they should have.
I am again confused, a trans woman is a male-sex individual who became a woman.
Even a so-called open-minded, liberal men can't stand the idea of a man wanting to be a woman cuz women are less than men.
I am not sure how to interpret the context of the 'women are less than men' part of what you wrote. Do you believe liberal men think that or do you agree with that? I disagree with it.
It's no different than when you talk about the the rape of children in the Catholic Church, it's always men raping boys no one ever talks about the girls that were raped because that's normal for a man to want to do and it's also why you get more time for drugs than you do rape.
Actually nuns have raped and abused girls, the reason it's typically homosexual is that Catholic churches put authority figures in charge that are the same gender and sex as the minors they have power over.
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@ILikePie5
The second amendment is so shady in its wording, it's basically allowing a group that want to coup to justify it as a given right.No it doesn’t lol.
I would not dare challenge you to an official debate on that as my interpretation is so taboo it isn't something I want to go into.
I have thought about many ways to interpret the second amendment and the only one that truly is loyal to its wording and the way it pits the armed militia against the government is to realise it is defending coups.
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@ILikePie5
Their enemies weren't the US military and police force.You mean the entire West
Not really... Barely any weapons and assistance was given by the end this 'resistance' was more 'we oppose your way of life' not 'we are actively stopping you militaristically'.
As for how the Taliban won, you can thank Trump for that deal. Not sure what's going on with you as a Trump fan asking that question... The answer is Trump let them win.
Vietnam was won by making Americans themselves oppose the war.And this matters how? American military families that support the government would go through the same thing. Even during the American Civil War, sentiment for the war was dying in North. Victories in places like Atlanta were the reason Lincoln was re-elected. If George McClellan became the President, he would’ve strived for peace.
It matters because it proves that the core way to stop tyranny is backing the first amendment not the second, though the first amendment is ridiculous in how wide its range is, it basically allows literal verbal and madia-based bullying. It is clear to me that people are more worried about defending against criminals who are able to access firearms, the issue is that they can easily access them, focus on stopping that.
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@ILikePie5
The thing is either you allow literal 'freedom fighters' as in organised (t****ist) militias to operate and oppose the government or you drop the act.
The second amendment is so shady in its wording, it's basically allowing a group that want to coup to justify it as a given right.
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@ILikePie5
The Taliban's enemies in Afghanistan recently weren't the US military and police force. It was won because the only enemy left was the Afghanistani military.
Vietnam was won by making Americans themselves oppose the war.
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@thett3
@ILikePie5
I am aware of the techinalities involved. That is also what I tried to discuss with someone I know irl but they don't understand that even people pro-abortion would want to replace Roe v Wade with something harder to remove or attack.
The problem is that the division is so 'this vs that' that progressives who are against abortion and pro solving the societal issues that drive the poor to avoid contraception and need to abort and even the fact that sex is often the only good thing in their life that isn't drug related, needs to stop.
There are left-wing reasons to be against abortion as a solution to unwanted babies but the whole issue is that america is so far right wing it will never fix these issues for the next 2 decades at least.
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@Greyparrot
Because your trusty revolver's gonna save you from military grade drones, machine guns, tanks and next level weaponry that you don't even know exists yet because it's not been revealed.
The people will truly 'win' a war against the military and police force if a tyrant took over because of their gun, that's very clearly what the guns are used for and good for...
I wish I could let that sit there and be obvious sarcasm but this seems to be the genuine belief of enough Americans that I need to add I AM BEING SARCASTIC!
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@thett3
Why exactly does it matter if it is not mentioned in the rights that... what? Seven seriously privileged men at the time put together based on their morality at the time; hardly the pinnacle of idol to follow or adhere to the whims of.
I can understand the pro-life perspective, I cannot understand blind constitutionalism to the point it's like a religion.
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Roe v Wade allows abortion without restriction, if a federal pro-choice law comes back I hope it restricts by time and circumstance or human beings will be killed without true justification.
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I just had a very heated argument with someone/people close to me about Roe v Wade and what the implications are and where things are going. It didn't end friendly or well.
I believe we are developing into a generation where love is just not even a factor anymore. It's not about 'sex is immoral' it's about are you really going sticking your dick in a woman or opening your legs to a man and going 'hmm I can justify killing this conceived being later based on my pleasure, my needs, my everything because I want this pleasure now, me me me me me'?
If you are actually selfish, be smart and disciplined. I can honestly tell you that I don't empathise with or understand people who genuinely can't enjoy foreplay if they have no condom around and are not on the pill, who 'need that risk' to get the thrill. I don't think it's justifiable or 'yeah yeah I get it you were drunk and high and whatever else, maybe you just love each other that much'.
The whole mentality of the left-wing who are pro-unrestricted-abortion is becoming do what you want, when you want and to hell with the consequences. It is the mentality of an impulsive teenager yet I know middle aged people who have it (at least for others) because they feel a 26 year old woman has no way to control how she acts on her urges.
I am not here to say I am anti-abortion in the first trimester or that I am totally against plan B whatsoever but please understand that's a human you just killed and living beings are not to be toyed with.
How the fuck can the left wing say that dependent homeless people, the disabled, the elderly and the poor should be cared for and nurtured at the sake of the rich and then say differently when it's a foetus and the mother has already harbored it inside her for several months? Hell, what the fuck is a woman doing for 6 months to just go 'na let's ditch it'?
I don't say I don't get it, I actually do and I am a passionately progressive guy but progress and libertinism are not the same damn thing and it is clear to me today that I am not a sheer liberal, I am a progressive and they are not the same brand of left wing.
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@ILikePie5
That's fine by me, the game doesn't need to start at all. Mharman can do it now if he wants to.
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@Double_R
1 Round?
I could call you double R the Retarded Raasclaat and win a debate right now. Challenge me to a debate and I will call you it and win, yes I am saying I think I'd beat you right now on most topics.
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@Double_R
I am of the opposite ethos.
There is a reason I laugh and win debates where I forfeit a Round.
Conduct is a third of arguments and half of sources.
They are all that matter at the moment.
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@Double_R
Arguments should stay 3 and the rest 1.5 each. :)
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