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Your claim was that Abraham Lincoln wasn't racist and that this claim in particular was outrageous for me to make, I first posted a single link for you to read, to which you replied that in the Lincoln-Douglas debates, Lincoln makes crystal clear that he is a defender of black rights.
I then used quotes from the fourth Lincoln-Douglas debate where he irrefutably admits being racist to shocking degrees in many different sentences and ways of expressing said belief.
You then try to divert and distract, making clear to everyone reading this which of us dodges things when we're wrong and which of us stands up and proves, let alone investigated and informed their self before making claims.
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Typically, when you're proven wrong by the own words of the person you're telling me I falsely accused, you apologise and say you were wrong.
What you are doing only further highlights that deceptive nature of your real agenda and way of debating about things, especially racism amongst the Right Wing.
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You accuse a man who died 156 years ago.
Yes, I do.
The conditions of his time are radically different from your time, so don't paint Lincoln with a 2021 brush of conditions.
I'm not, I'm quoting his own speech from a series of debates that you tried to use to depict me and my original linked article as liars and exaggerators.
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@Theweakeredge
To answer your overall question, this should be in Politics subforum, not Philosophy.
Individualism is shallow philosophically, it is basically the idea that opposes Utilitarianism which noone has usually heard of.
Utilitarianism is normally held opposed to the idea of 'intrinsic moral value' to acts. It actually has another opposite in the other direction.
Utiliarianism asserts that the individuals' pleasure or pain ought to be undervalued even by each of the individuals, if the collective net-pleasure vs net-suffering ends up increased. Conversely, Individualism asserts the opposite but it does have a loophole because if the individual feels empathy towards the collective or concern over the collective's net outcome, then Individualism and Utiliarianism can at times coincide.
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Vote Count
Earth (1/4) - Pie
Not voting (6/7) - WF, Luna, Supa, Bullish, MC, Earth
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It's Kamala not Kamela, just so you know.
It isn't actually to be pronounced as Kamilla, it is to be pronounced as Kah-muh-lah.
It is from her Tamil parent that she is named, the letter 'a has just as many pronunciations as in English (with one more, as 'eh' is one of the softest pronunciations). In tamil the symbols that comprise her written first name are 'kah' 'mal' and 'ah' most likely, I don't knwo for certain but basically it goes by syllable combinations, not letter by letter.
Her name COULD be Kaa( as in 'bat' becoming Ba) meh (Kama being Kaa-meh) but there is absolutely no female name combination in Tamil where this would be followed by La, it would be Kamani, or Kamahai something structured like that. Even in Kamani it's 50/50 what type of 'a' sound it is and there's no Hindu goddess or anything amongst Muslim or Christian Tamils that would lead to such a name being realistic anyway.
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Vote count
All voting noone.
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One last thing,
For balancing reasons, at least 1 scum has been given a fake role to claim that is guaranteed to not be counterclaimed.
Noone has been given a fake character claim.
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Unvoting is allowed but not required, if you vote someone after voting someone else, it switches immediately.
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@Bullish
@MisterChris
Have fun,
Also the final rule: play to win, don't gamethrow but gambits are allowed.
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.
Voting must be done as:
Vote: username
or
VTL username
You can say shorter versions of a username or misspell, I won't allow 'trick votes' to bait others, if I think it's a vote, it's counted.
It must be bold though.
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@Earth
@Lunatic
@Vader
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
Rules:
- I know people here seem to think CoC doesn't apply but please don't bully each other to a degree where it's really bullying, banter is allowed but don't keep teasing the same individual over and over.
- No outside-game bets or influence to pressure someone into or away from a vote. This includes 'swearing on something sacred' type things, either doing it or making someone else need to do it.
- No threats or bluffs involving screenshotting or cheating of any kind.
- No racism or LGBTphobia. To my knowledge every player in this game is male but no sexism if that's somehow a topic. The cast is majority female regardless of theme (possibly 100% female but I am not confirming or denying, just saying).
Have fun, day starts now and will end in 72 hours, if I'm offline please don't post. After eliminating a player, you can talk a little bit in what MafiaScum calls 'twilight zone' but please be sensible.
I reveal full role PMs upon death, not the next day if it's a vote-off.
I call voting, voting and 'lynching' eliminating.
I will not use the L-word in this game but you can say VTL or use the word if you want as this website hasn't ruled that out.
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Some other theme-split ideas that may be at play include:
- Happy vs Sad
- Angry vs Calm
- Only deceives to gain an advantage vs Deceives as an end in itself
- Has an agenda beyond the gambling whenever they gamble vs Has ever gambled for the sake of gambling itself
- Cares about the order of the school's society vs Thinks it's a bit of a sham
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IN ALL THEME SPLITS, EITHER SIDE MAY BE TOWN. This may or may not be good vs evil. There is guaranteed to be at least 1 Council member who is scum, however the opposite is not guaranteed (nor denied).
I am assuming everyone is able to watch the series in some way, you won't be able to catch the theme-splite solely from the fandom Wikias, in my opinion.The theme-split is abstract to the point where you could argue the game is themeless, however after it is over, I will explain what it was.The theme has 2 separate layers to it (actually 3 but one is very unlikely to be noticeable at all).It can be anything from the following (or even something not mentioned):
- Stoic approach to gambling vs Nihilistic
- Passionate approach to gambling vs Calculated
- Willingness to cheat vs Apprehension
- Neutrality on cheating vs Singular approach
- Psychopathic traits vs Empathetic traits
- Deceptive demeanour vs Honest demeanour (matching the real self)
- Tendency to win when gambling vs Tendency to lose
- Having no clear allegiances vs Clear allegiances
- Embracing defeat vs Avoiding defeat
- Loathing risk vs Adoring risk
- Having ever participated in cheating vs Having not done so
- Having actively stopped cheating vs Having noticed it but consistently not directly stopped it
- Tendency to conform vs Tendency to stand out
- Having gambled and/or cheated on behalf of someone else vs Having never done so
- Having exposed cheaters at any point in the series vs Having never done so.
These are some core concepts.I promise you the theme-split is not something as simplistic as Council vs non-Council or merely family vs non-family, the theme-split is something abstract. I have designed the split such that it is viable for town to accidentally correctly lynch Day 1 based on a false concept of the theme, this is to make it fair.The same idea goes for the images, the images are not clear on what they have in common at all, I even made sure that the 4 town have quite a few exceptions where 3 have something in common while 1 does not.There are 2 true commonalities in the images and they are both subtle indeed, requiring a lot of discussion. One is less subtle than the other.There are 3 or 4 commonalities in images in actuality but the thirdparty has been granted 2 of them being the same as town with the other 2 not.
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The theme split is abstract, do not expect every character to stereotypically fit their alignment or even role (though some will/might).The images you have been sent after your role PMs do not matter too much in the same way that specific sentences don't matter in a role PM.You are 100% disallowed to link the URLs of images of the characters in-game other than the specific ones of the fandom wiki(s) as I haven't used them.Treat the image you have like specific wording inside the role PM, you should feel free to describe it perhaps even more detailed than your PM but never show it directly, not even trying to draw it and showing that. There are one or two commonalities between the images Town members received vs what the scum did. This was calculated to be difficult but not impossible to solve, there are many misleading commonalities and differences. I incorporated this to give 4v1v2 Town a real chance at eliminating scum day one, this game is going to be cutthroat.Lunatic is Yumemi (family name Yumemite, yes that similar) the Superstar/Celebrity. He is role-confirmed only, his alignment isn't revealed/naked.
This is what a superstar is: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=SuperstarThe role (or flavouring of role) means he is essentially the role version of what alignment is to the Innocent Child.Your thinking about the characters and setup can start now, let's use the time Whiteflame has requested as making it worth what I assure you is a complex/cryptic setup and theme-split.This is officially my first ever hosted mafia game in history of debating sites, I am new and experimenting, please bear with me.
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In general you are correct - and a good portion of asexual people simply do not have libido, do not derive pleasure from sexual intercourse - however - people who simply feel no sexual attraction towards others also fit into this category - as in specific reference to sexualities - not sexuality.
How is that reply to Athias and not to me?
You said what I said basically.
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Not showing up to court case is FF not single-round Forfeit. There's actually no equivalent to court at all.
A better example would be staying silent during some but not all questions in a debate where it's a question-from-host style thing.
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@fauxlaw
I will repeat; Lincoln was a pragmatist. He played things to stabilise America and ensure he'd maintain power. He sided with the North out of convenience, not actual ideological allegiance with those who loathed racism.
I will like to explore to some quotes from the debate you refer to:
At the fourth Lincoln-Douglas debate, held in Charleston, South Carolina, the “Great Emancipator” began with the following [transcript courtesy of the National Park Service]:“While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great Laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. … I will also add to the remarks I have made (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject,) that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.]”
- Abraham Lincoln
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@fauxlaw
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I am confused, if someone doesn't want to have sex at all but has a high sex drive, something is clearly amiss or deceptive if they say they're asexual right? I think so, unless sexuality refers solely to socially acceptable orientations.
If you masturbate to porn or whatever, you're still attracted to that or maybe I am misunderstanding it. I would not psychologically categorise a high libido individual who simply masturbates instead of having sex as asexual. During Covid lockdown, those that didn't engage in sex weren't suddenly asexual correct?
So if you want sex but don't feel any sexual attraction to anyone then perhaps you have a taboo attraction? I am genuinely confused, I just wish for an explanation how someone who has high libido and genuinely enjoys orgasms can claim to have no sexual orientation that is considered sexual. It's more probable that maybe they have a taboo attraction they don't want to reveal, if you ask me, or otherwise what is it they feel the sexual urges and masturbate over the fantasy of/towards?
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My results are:
- 41.7% Left, 44.4% Liberal
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@Athias
You are a devout anarchist, I'm not going to 'deconvert' you by one clever post. Your devotion to anarchy is akin to a Nun's devotion to Christ almighty and Lord God.
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@Athias
In autocracies like China and Iran, yeah they are brutal thugs indeed. In more democratic nations not so much but partially at times.
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@Athias
Anarchy is all cute and fun until the thugs who fought to free you end up ruling you with an iron fist.
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No, that is why you must surrender.
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Some asexual people still have sex, because A) It feels good
No, they don't. Reason B, however, they do.
Just clearing up a misconception.
Asexual people have either got extremely low libido or are wired to not respond to orgasms and stimuli that lead to orgasms how others do, they find them dull overall.
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@Athias
Your anarchy will solve it all.
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If anyone with any input worth reading will like to post please @ me, I'll leave this thread unopened otherwise.
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I've made a sticking choice alright. You are a nasty fucking piece of work.
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@fauxlaw
Shitpost all you want and say send flowers if it makes you feel good but don't @ me with this shit.
I forget why I unblocked you but it's not getting undone again.
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@fauxlaw
Nothing you say is even relevant. Literally nothing. Even if it were true that your lie of Dems sabotaging Republican policies via loopholes is done moreire often, what I said to Athias would still be true.
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@fauxlaw
Loopholes that the Ds have made far more hay, and imposed far more often by count than by Rs.
Baseless lie.
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@fauxlaw
I am not only talking about the acts, I am talking about the enforcement of them. They existed but were barely enforced and cops were abusing blacks far worse back then than now. That's all changed bit by bit almost 100% due to Demcorats and the Left Wing. GOP helped slavery end and voted in favour of certain acts when they saw no way out.
Idk why you are even trying to pretend that Reoublicans are the less racist party. It's actually becoming ridiculous to read the shit you're posting and the reach you're going to to find outlandish cases to justify it.
Why are you dodging the core topic or main things I'm saying and cherry picking things to find some weird technicalities to deny with?
Literally everyone knows Republicans ar ethe more racist party in this day and age, every racist knows that.
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@Athias
The Left Wing programs don't go wrong when passed untik the Right Wing plot to sabotage it. That's a fact, not a theory. This is precisely what occurred with Medicaid that devolved into Obamacare.
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@Athias
You didn't tell me why I'm wrong.
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@Athias
No, they wouldn't.
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@Athias
The reason they do come up empty is often due to the Right Wing filibustering them to hell and back via Senate loopholes in procedure and things along those lines.
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GreyParrot, I have explained this already. The less productive the State is, the less it tends to have as high of an upper tier to compare its poverty to. The issue with America is cultural favouring of Right-Wing ethos combined with a lack of any Federal enforcement of things that can not be a State-level thing, such as welfare, affirmative action, benefits and more. US may eventually need to push the entire nation to unite or acceot it isn't working and break up into negihbouring, allied nations instead.
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What does that have to do without anything? If the old Democrat Party were posers who were actually Right-Wing what the fuck does that have to do with this topic?
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@Athias
It's not a trick. When it's absent you get the tier of poverty that nations like Ethiopia see.
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@fauxlaw
And the R-Party in the South eschews the KKK today, and always have.
Bullcrap, your most recent leader even called Proud Boys decent people.
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@fauxlaw
I know that, that's the only reason Lincoln sided with the North.
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@fauxlaw
produce for the benefit of all by providing jobs. Nobody poor makes jobs. I've never worked for a poor person
... Well some lower-middle class people can own convenience stores and then hire others, or own a small garage where they hire mechanics. Those are some examples.
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@fauxlaw
The KKK only backed the Democrats because it was GOP in power and they wanted anarchy to let them do as they pleased with their barbaric practices.
The Democrat Party did never ever reward them. From the moment after Lincoln where the first chance came, Dems did everything towards assisting the Civil Rights movement. Lincoln was racist, by the way, he just was pragmatic and realised too many sympathised with slaves so he saw it as strategic to side against the South at the time.
The South generally supports which party ever since then?
Funny that, isn't it?
All, yes all, white supremacists vote Republican post-Lincoln, do you deny it? Prove me wrong.
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Okay I will like to say I don't agree with the OP's actual reasoning to get to the conclusion.
Evidence does matter, circumstantial evidence is still evidence. Anecdotal evidence from other formerly silent victims is witness testimony once uttered under oath. We need to stop making conspiracy theories on EITHER side.
I am not denying there are disgusting coverups. Epstein is the most significant middleman who was probably assassinated (let's not beat around the bush) but he is not some new phenomenon or enigma. Sexual abuse is as ancient as our species itself. We need to make the victims feel comfortable coming forward, that is paramount for justice to take its course.
Do Michael Jacksons, Epstein's clients and Kevin Spaceys exist? Yes. Some filth does make it through the cracks. That's not just unfortunate, it's devastating. However, had the victims felt they would be believed and not be hullied into silence scared senseless of what to do or say, then we'd possibly have been able to find far more circumstancial evidence to put Jackson, Spacey, Weinstein and more at a place at a time and we could analyse damage to furniture in the room and any kind of CCTV type footage of the running away in the aftermath to put pieces ofnthe puzzle together. It's not easy. Rape is one of the most difficult crimes to solve even after having the evidence as ultimately the difference between the roughest BDSM and rape is one thing; consent. This was also a major factor in how Kobe Bryant got away with what quite likely was rape. He paid off the victim to say that she consented after the victim had the guts to come forward the next week (which he had not expected). We have a habit of glorifying the dead or vilifying the living but dead or alive, rape is rape. I am also empathetic even to the monsters who do it, not sympathetic at all, empathetic. I guarantee you that a significant % of rapists were emotionally, if not sexually and physically, abused in childhood and adolescence. It's what scars them so much and corrupts them. It's not an excuse at all, it's a reality.
We need to fix people, help them cry and say sorry and mean it. I'm not lessening the wrongness of their acts. I'm saying I don't think some of you are aware but there are rape victims who don't come forward out of fear of how bad prisoners will treat their rapist. I am not joking. When it comes to therapy and psychology, I don't make shit up. Trust me on this, the victims sometimes literally didn't cime forward as they are often the kindest, most giving people who got preyed upon and their nature is to care for others, even their rapist.
We need to understand that. The prison system is so utterly flawed idk what idiot even thought that this is the magical cure to hanging. Neither do anything close to rehabilitation.
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California and New York have had 50 years to let all "succeed"Instead, they are the highest GINI value for inequality in the country.
Yes, in America, a Right-Wing nation where the "Left Wing" is centrist and even Right-Leaning compared to other highly developed nations, especially Social Democracies, the most productive States have the highest amount of poverty. I wonder why that is? Couldn't be an ossue with federal-enforced policy or lack thereof? Has to be the States' fault right?
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@thett3
The core right-wing stance, from the right-winger's perspective is that we are in a merciless, ruthless world where only the strongest survive.
They go on from concluding that to basically seeing everything through that lens and either try to embrace it with what they conclude is absolute meritocracy or try to fight against it in the sense of seeing all in any position of power as corrupt, unless they use that position of power to corrupt things in favour of the interest groups and/or policies that that right-winger cares about.
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@fauxlaw
Do you see the KKK as left-wing?
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