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@Allah
O’Marra also found a lot of good in the accused, noting his above-average IQIf age of consent is 16, going after 15 year olds is literally retarded.
Don't you dare say that about this elite human capital that's going to save the West!
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@Mharman
Toyotas are ridiculously enduring. I love those cars
I got t-boned in a 15+ y/o Toyota, side of the car was caved in, totaled. Didn't want to pay for a tow truck so I forced the door open and drove it to the junk yard. Drove like it was brand new - the things are indestructible.
EVs once the batteries go bad are just bricks, and those batteries have way less life in them than your average tranny and are more expensive to replace. Anyone buying one is just getting scammed. With 100k miles? I'd think a lot of Teslas would be out of warranty in that case.
EVs once the batteries go bad are just bricks, and those batteries have way less life in them than your average tranny and are more expensive to replace. Anyone buying one is just getting scammed. With 100k miles? I'd think a lot of Teslas would be out of warranty in that case.
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Khant pleaded to attempting an indecent act instead, which has a maximum penalty of two years’ jail. Crown prosecutors asked for 90 days, but they didn’t get their wish — and much of the reason why came down to the fact that the accused was not a citizen.Originally from India’s Gujarat state, Khant came to Canada in 2019 for school, specifically, a master’s of engineering. He finished in 2021 and obtained permanent residency in 2023. Also, in 2023, he married his wife, who is currently here on a work visa set to expire in September. This was an important consideration for Justice Paul Thomas O’Marra, who joined the Ontario Court of Justice in the Kathleen Wynne era."Mr. Khant is a permanent resident seeking Canadian citizenship and professional licensing,” wrote the judge. “A conviction would not only delay his citizenship by four years but could also prevent him from sponsoring his wife and obtaining his engineering licence."These immigration and professional consequences are far more severe than those faced by (an offender in a similar previous case), who was a Canadian citizen with no such vulnerabilities. Courts have recognized that such consequences can justify a more lenient sentence, including a discharge.
Logically, Khant would be getting a higher sentence if he were Canadian — which is why this sentencing practice is so deeply unfair.O’Marra also found a lot of good in the accused, noting his above-average IQ, his first-time offender status, his lack of mental illness or criminal record, his “modest and reserved” nature, and his low likelihood of reoffending (he did show “some response to younger females” in phallometric testing, but he agreed to take therapy in light of the finding).In the judge’s eyes, these overcame Khant’s flaws, such as his apparent intention to see the fictitious 15-year-old on a regular basis: “we could do this a lot depending on how this goes,” he told the officer-in-disguise. After he was caught, he told the risk-assessment psychologist that he never intended to go for underage girls.
Just another piece of evidence that Canada is a dystopian shithole. Catch a predator in a sting trying to rape a teenage girl? Can't send him to jail, if we did that, he might not be able to stay in our country!
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Nobody is intellectually honest. Man isn't the rational animal, he's the rationalizing animal. Every single person who has ever lived has had their understanding bound by mores and customs that were themselves bound to a specific time and place, and every person's thoughts were completely contextualized by their surroundings. The march of technology isn't the constant adding of new knowledge, we also forget and leave things behind. Human knowledge is in motion and it also decays. Even one person could spend an entire lifetime leaning the nuances of one little piece of land, and his whole lifetime of knowledge might be summed up in a couple of lines in an obscure technical manual if he's lucky, most of it will go with him into the grave.
"There is, it seems to us,
At best, only a limited value
In the knowledge derived from experience.
The knowledge imposes a pattern, and falsifies,
For the pattern is new in every moment
And every moment is a new and shocking
Valuation of all we have been."
- T. S. Eliot -
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I think that the essence of humanity is the capacity for evil and good coupled with the inability to every truly reach either absolute. I do think that often the most damaging people are those who think that they've reached 'good' and then start to project evil out onto other people, searching for it everywhere but within themselves.
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@Lunatic
A role I never lied about from my soft claim up until now. I never expected to have to hedge to explain away night actions, I guess.
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My claim is gold or golden bunny. I'm apparently a rare golden rabbit and am worth a lot of money. Going off of memory here and never played the game. My role is Millionaire, that if I die I can type out a final message to town. Kind of a waste, because you can probably guess what it's going to be if this mislynch goes through.
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In fact my very next post you quote explains this but you leave out that important fact in your analysis and only quote the last part of that quote about Supa feeling honest.
To town: go through that post of Lunas. Read the posts he links to. Then read through his summaries and ask yourself whether he's accurately presenting my reads last DP and what events caused them to change. Then ask yourself if town would need to make so many misrepresentations to lynch scum. Maybe I'm omgussing because I'm so pissed at not being able to respond to this bit by bit because phonepoasting and my reception right now sucks ass, but the whole thing is just so off.
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Starts diminishing his read on Vader by saying it doesn't qualify as a "LAL thing": https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=15&post_number=435 ('This isn't shaking out to be one of them')
Another flat-out lie. Read the post. I said there are EXCEPTIONS to LAL and this (Supas claiming Mharman told him something that other players got different answers) 'isn't shaking out to be one of them' - meaning this isn't an exception to the LAL policy and we should lynch Supa for lying. I changed my stance on this when the mod stepped in to say this wasn't true, something Luna knows is the case and is lying about it. Does this seem like honest scumhunting to anyone? Luna wanted to lynch Supa on an LAL justification yesterday. He's lied twice about his role for very suspicious reasons (why would scum NK someone with a role like Strengthener?), there's good reason to suspect he's lying about Ultras visit, and I've lost count of the number of times he's lied about me.
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Can't respond at length now but anyone can do an iso on me right now and see this is am abject lie. Never did I ONCE put Mikal in my scum pile, I read him as town since the second he was confirmed and sought his help reading you.I didn't say you put mikal in your scum pile, who is the one lying now? Wtf are you even talking about? Im guessing your drunk? Sounds like some good wine, share it with me next time. I said you were riding his coat tails and stopped boarding the supa train the second he did.
You said I moved him to my town pile. He never left my town pile. To have moved him to my town pile he would have had to be in my scum pile at some point.
In case you forget, I got on the Supa train 24 hours before the DP ended while Mikal stayed off it till the bitter end. I've directly quoted the post several times - that outside a policy lynch of an inactive, Supa was my top scumread and that I would support a lynch.
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His scum slip revealing TMI about how many claims mafia received, just for fun: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=15&post_number=443Blatant 5th Offense: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=17&post_number=481Blatant 6th Offense: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=17&post_number=492Blatant 7th Offense: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=17&post_number=505More Supa defense: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=18&post_number=528Randomly puts vader back in his scum pile despite defending him: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12994-terraria-mafia-1-dp1?page=22&post_number=642
Please read every one of these posts, other town players. Me 'defending' Supa is just me investigating his slip, which was incredibly convoluted and confusing to multiple other players, and weighing the pros and cons of his flip. The 'scum slip' that Luna points out here was me thinking there were three full claims provided to the scum team, which caused me to think it would be insane for Supa to make up a vanilla fake claim in that scenario. Once that was cleared up and I realized that I had misread Mharman's post I changed my read on Supa 24 hours before the hammer and then hammered him.
Please, please, please do an iso on me. Read all my posts. Multiple other players agreed woth me last DP and saw the Supa slip as debateable. Those people were on whiteflame's wagon at the end of the day, a wagon I was never on. A lot of them gave much worse reasoning for their reads. So why is Luna so fixated on me? He went hard against me as soon as I said I would be away from my computer and notes with limited internet access on a camping trip. This is a naked mislynch attempt on an easy target based on contrived reasoning being selectively apllied only to me. I might not be able to reply again. If you do end up mislynching me, please lynch Luna next DP.
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@Lunatic
More lies/lazy scumhunting. I even already referenced this in a reply for you. I scumread Supa in my final list of reads (#642), put him as one of my top lynch targets, and then hammered him when it looked like the clock might run out with a NL.Lazy scum reading? You are riding the coat tails of MY lynch you dumb mother fvcker. Who was the first one on supa? who lead the fvcking lynch? You argued against it at every fvcking turn retard. You hammered him because it would have been scummy as f not to at that point.Supa was literally my only lean scum read, my strongest scum read, I opposed the people pushing for a NL over a Supa lynch, and I said:And the second mikal started waffling you put him right back in your town pile. Don't try to change the narrative guy.
Can't respond at length now but anyone can do an iso on me right now and see this is am abject lie. Never did I ONCE put Mikal in my scum pile, I read him as town since the second he was confirmed and sought his help reading you.
Your fixation on getting credit for your lynch also reeks of a bus
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@Lunatic
You are not “we”. You constantly made excuses for Vader and avoided that lynch like the plague until the last second and only joined it because it looked inevitable. Acting like you thought this was obvious in hindsight is sus af.
More lies/lazy scumhunting. I even already referenced this in a reply for you. I scumread Supa in my final list of reads (#642), put him as one of my top lynch targets, and then hammered him when it looked like the clock might run out with a NL.
9. Vader - Lean scumNow that I'm not longer eliminating the possibility of him coming up with a fake claim his behavior seems a lot more plausible from a scum motivation standpoint. I'd like to hear more from him on his claim.
Supa was literally my only lean scum read, my strongest scum read, I opposed the people pushing for a NL over a Supa lynch, and I said:
I'd prefer lynching one of the more inactive players as I think that scum is more likely to be hiding there DP1, but I would settle for a Supa lynch. I hate no-lynching DP1 because it's one less flip to shed light on DP1 behaviors during DP2. I don't care about the math.
I logged in towards the end of the DP, looked at what Supa had to say about his claim, found it dissatisfactory, and hammered him. It's not like I had a billion posts between these all in which my read and support for that lynch could be forgotten. A simple iso on me would have revealed it. So, are you scum reading me without even looking at an iso? This post was at 07.09.2025 12:30PM I hammered Supa at 07.10.2025 10:59AM, so I had been scum reading him and holding him out as a lynch target for almost 24 hours. Why are you lying/lazy?
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
I think we leave Ceru alive for now. Tomorrow if there’s not a message then it’s even more suspicious.
Agreed
I don't think a strengthener is a scummy claim. Its towns only recourse against a roleblocker, thats pretty powerful.
A commuter is also a very powerful role for town to have, but it's scummy because it's alignment neutral. Strengthener is also alignment-neutral and can be used to explain away visits for more nefarious purposes. I didn't say that it wasn't powerful, only that it's a claim that scum would make.
Something about this post bothers me. It’s like my logical thought was if an anti poison role does exist it was to counter TVs role. It sure I believe thatBut you went a step further and say the justification for his claim is because you think mafia or someone likely had another poison ability.It’s almost like knowledge that should not be there. I did not even consider a second poison role exists which is why I didn’t buy the claimKind of agree with the TMI here btw
This seems scummy. I can believe Mikal missing Ceru's post that I originally got the idea from (#48). I don't believe that you missed that post, my correction (#83), Casey's noticing of Ceru's post (#81), and Mikal's acknowledgement of this and retraction of the post that you quoted (#85). The fact that you posted this immediately after I said I would be AWOL for a while and apparently were just skimming the DP for scum reads to agree with (while not actually investigating the substance of them) does not feel town at all. It feels like scum trying to get the ball rolling on a mislynch when somebody can't defend themselves.
Haven't mentioned it yet, but I townread your claim. The flipped Poisoner at least suggests the existence of some capacity to respond, whether scum have it or not. And regardless of who else has a Poisoner role, if you are scum, this would be a pretty ballsy claim to make given the number of unclaimed we still have. I don't see Mharman giving away that this role doesn't exist to scum, either, since that could potentially give away to scum that there is a town Poisoner in the game. It's possible, but unlikely, and I'd sooner believe you just went for it.
There was no flipped poisoner. There was a flipped 1x JOAT town poisoner. Why give town a role solely devoted to counter a 1x town ability? Unless there is a scum poisoner, the role makes no sense.
Something about whiteflame has been niggling me the whole game and I think I just grasped a little bit on it. It seems to be that Whiteflame is very concerned about not being nightkilled, is very concerned about not being lynched, and is not very concerned about hunting scum. The claim is designed to not draw the NK because it's scummy and makes him a potential lynch target (if not mafia) while posing no threat to scum so dissuades a NK. The cursory scumhunting that mostly ends with suffusing active scumreads with doubts and misgivings and subtly buddies people by taking the wind out of the sails of wagons (horrible mixed metaphor) combined with a general lack of activity is just enough to dissuade lynches targeting him. The lack of aggressive, effect scumhunting also stops scum from seeing him as a threat. I think he lied about his role, and people townread him for it because it's not a typical whiteflame carefully constructed fakeclaim but a very sloppy one. What if it only seems sloppy because he's trying to avoid being NK'd? He might be non-mafia scum. Some sort of survivor. Or maybe a cult leader, the visits could disguise recruitment attempts and the game is big enough for it. I've long kept the theory in the back of my head that there is some sort of recruitment mechanic in this game because they usually require big games to be balanced and Mharman was very, very assiduous in making sure he got enough players for this big game. What could make a big game difficult to pare down and require you to go full roster or bust? A recruitment mechanic.
Something about whiteflame has been niggling me the whole game and I think I just grasped a little bit on it. It seems to be that Whiteflame is very concerned about not being nightkilled, is very concerned about not being lynched, and is not very concerned about hunting scum. The claim is designed to not draw the NK because it's scummy and makes him a potential lynch target (if not mafia) while posing no threat to scum so dissuades a NK. The cursory scumhunting that mostly ends with suffusing active scumreads with doubts and misgivings and subtly buddies people by taking the wind out of the sails of wagons (horrible mixed metaphor) combined with a general lack of activity is just enough to dissuade lynches targeting him. The lack of aggressive, effect scumhunting also stops scum from seeing him as a threat. I think he lied about his role, and people townread him for it because it's not a typical whiteflame carefully constructed fakeclaim but a very sloppy one. What if it only seems sloppy because he's trying to avoid being NK'd? He might be non-mafia scum. Some sort of survivor. Or maybe a cult leader, the visits could disguise recruitment attempts and the game is big enough for it. I've long kept the theory in the back of my head that there is some sort of recruitment mechanic in this game because they usually require big games to be balanced and Mharman was very, very assiduous in making sure he got enough players for this big game. What could make a big game difficult to pare down and require you to go full roster or bust? A recruitment mechanic.
I was keeping quiet about this because I thought he might be a mason but I just reread this DP and realized that he visited Banana, who was the top scumread at the close of last DP. There is zero reason for a mason to make that visit. IMO the top likely scenarios are some sort of role that wouldn't clue a town player in to the fact that something was being done to them. Not a roleblocker or something like that, but a third party recruiter (which would clue them in while changing their alignment so they wouldn't squeal) or a scum framer. At first, I thought from a role perspective that a framer actually makes the most sense. Banana's clumsy claim makes me shift lean town on them, and if they were town they were the perfect target for a framer as the cop would likely have investigated them in the night. The cop being killed puts a dent in this theory but they could be worried that the cop was protected, and in that case if their NK failed they would likely have a guaranteed mislynch the next day if Banana were framed.
I'm questioning the wagon analysis and POE based on that. It's standard scum practice to not all be on the same wagon. There is probably one scum on the WF wagon but I think it's unlikely that all of them were.
I'm questioning the wagon analysis and POE based on that. It's standard scum practice to not all be on the same wagon. There is probably one scum on the WF wagon but I think it's unlikely that all of them were.
This DP Pie seems a lot more town than Luna. His scumhunting seems more pointed and driven, he's asking the right questions, he's analytical. Luna reads like the scumhunting is very lazy and that he's coasting on towncred, which makes me give the bus theory a bit more credence.
VTL Luna
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Leaving for my camping trip. Will try to post later tonight or late tomorrow night if I can get signal.
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So Mharman is understandably no longer answering questions in the DP but he confirmed to me that Casey's role as described would not have stopped a poisoner or a bomb. That does make me suspect Ceru a bit more and Casey a lot less. Where is the poisoner announcement? I don't see how scum would have known that there was a poison healer in town and held back. I also asked him if scum would be able to poison and kill in the same NP hypothetically and he said as long as two different people carried out each action. With losing a scum DP1 I don't see why they wouldn't take that route immediately to even the odds a bit.
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@Mikal
Something about this post bothers me. It’s like my logical thought was if an anti poison role does exist it was to counter TVs role. It sure I believe thatBut you went a step further and say the justification for his claim is because you think mafia or someone likely had another poison ability.It’s almost like knowledge that should not be there. I did not even consider a second poison role exists which is why I didn’t buy the claim
I got that from Ceru's post last page, he said that his role doesn't make sense with just a JOAT town poisoner and there must be another.
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@Mikal
I haven't had time to reread DP1 yet, I've got a pretty busy weekend (camping trip) but I should be able to phonepoast a bit later after I've had time to go over it, especially later Saturday/Sunday. I'll keep an eye out for what you're talking about.
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@Mikal
@Cerulean
Tv was a poisoner. I think that’s why ceru is claiming it lol.
Is Ceru that retarded? I don't think so. Mods wouldn't put a town role that can only counter poison if there was just one 1x town poisoner JOAT. He knows that, we know that, he knows that we know that.
Ceru, can you use your role on someone that isn't poisoned? Could that result in any sort of mod confirmation of your role?
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@Mharman
Also, could you publicly confirm what was said earlier, that a player who was poisoned would have it announced at the beginning of the DP?
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@Mharman
@Mikal
I do not buy cerus claim at all.
If we don't have a poisoner announcement by next DP I agree. The only thing that makes me hesitate is maybe the poisoner targeted town-Pie and it got blocked.
Mharman, would Casey's role as stated block a poisoner because it isn't immediately lethal?
Mharman, would Casey's role as stated block a poisoner because it isn't immediately lethal?
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The thing is I don't see why TV would ever reveal his role DP1 to dissuade town visits unless he planned to activate the bomb NP1. If he planned to cop or poison he would have kept his role a secret, no? It makes sense as a WIFOM gambit to tempt scum into a 50/50 chance to take out the cop. Trading a cop for a guaranteed scum kill is a good deal. Something protected the person carrying out the NK from that bomb, I'm pretty much sure of it. And Casey could be lying about that role not protecting against lethal actions anyway.
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@Mharman
@Casey_Risk
Fair enough. In that case, I will claim, as I believe I may have prevented someone from being poisoned. I am the Spear, a basic weapon which is useful for having high knockback, which helps keep enemies away from the player. Therefore, I am the Asceticizer. I can target players to make them immune to all non-lethal night actions. Last night I targeted Pie. After Vader's flip, I figured he was likely innocent and thought he might have been the target of mafia interference. Seems like I chose well.
Mharman, if an Asceticizer as described targeted someone carrying out a NK on TV's bomb role, would his bomb count as a lethal night action and still kill that person or would the fact that it's passive/reflexive nullify its effect on the asceticized person carrying out the NK and protect them from the bomb?
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@Mikal
The asceticizer claim seems like a scummier version of a rolestopper to me. It's just a rolestopper but it doesn't make them BP, right? How is that a town lock?
If Pie was scum bussing Supa they could have been stopping the night kill from being tracked. I'm sure there are other possible motivations too. It's town lean maybe, but town lock doesn't seem reasonable to me.
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@Mikal
I am not going to elaborate but I think Casey is a town lockI targeted pie and got a non successful result.
How do you figure? Scum have all manner of roleblockers as well.
Is "tiered NPC" a correct representation of the softs REF made? I'm not sure exactly what that would entail.
Yes. It is a bit bizarre.
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@Mikal
I am not going to elaborate but I think Casey is a town lockI targeted pie and got a non successful result.
How do you figure? Scum have all manner of roleblockers as well.
Is "tiered NPC" a correct representation of the softs REF made? I'm not sure exactly what that would entail.
Yes. It is a bit bizarre.
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@ILikePie5
I'd like a role claim from Banana, but what is your case for Casey? Is it just that they were on the Whiteflame wagon? Or did you have other reasons to be suspicious of them?
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@ILikePie5
You need some bullshit like a mass soft claim to get things moving DP1, the mass soft claim was that. You don't need it DP2. We have flips, we have an enormous DP1 thread, we have possible results. Talk about those.Sure, Banana because of the random vote. Casey cause she was “believing” Supa all day yesterday. You for the same thing until you hammered.
I started scumreading Supa a long time before his wagon even took off, I just used my vote to pressure inactives during the latter half of the DP and switched it to Supa to hammer him. I said multiple times that he was the best lynch target after I realized that I had misread Mharnams reply and that Supa wasn't guaranteed a fake claim, which was why I was originally skeptical.
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@Cerulean
Who? Which remaining claim exactly are you calling scummy?Vader was lynched because his was the worst.
There was a strengthener, an obligate visitor off the top of my head, and I think one other that's slipping my mind as I'm not home right now. But a lot of them were roles that are common scum fakeclaims.
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@ILikePie5
We already lost the cop. We are just formulaically demanding claims from any scum read, if we keep doing this either we'll reveal more power roles or give the scum better POE to hit the ones that remain hidden. It's lazy and accomplishes nothing.Not really. We caught Vader because of his inconsistency with his claim. Sure, role solely won’t determine lynch, but it gives a better idea for sure.What is the point, honestly? We already have several scummy claims out there. Have we lynched anyone based on that? The one scum we did catch we caught through behavior and motivation, not because he had a scummy claim.He actually did have a scummy claim because of all the contradictions that he made in claiming.I'm rereading DP1 in light of the flips. Will be pretty busy today but should be able to post at some point.
We saw contradictions in his behavior and story; the soft claim was just the catalyst that generated that original activity. Mikal sought out soft claims only. Now you want over half of town to have claims out there DP2 when we're down a cop.
You need some bullshit like a mass soft claim to get things moving DP1, the mass soft claim was that. You don't need it DP2. We have flips, we have an enormous DP1 thread, we have possible results. Talk about those.
I also find Banana suspicious, but I also find Ultra suspicious too. Both have been very quiet and were on the Whiteflame wagon. I would like their reads.
You need some bullshit like a mass soft claim to get things moving DP1, the mass soft claim was that. You don't need it DP2. We have flips, we have an enormous DP1 thread, we have possible results. Talk about those.
I also find Banana suspicious, but I also find Ultra suspicious too. Both have been very quiet and were on the Whiteflame wagon. I would like their reads.
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@ILikePie5
I would like claims from Banana, Casey, and REF
I hate this version of town play. I don't think anyone else should claim. I don't think Tvell should have claimed. We already lost the cop. We are just formulaically demanding claims from any scum read, if we keep doing this either we'll reveal more power roles or give the scum better POE to hit the ones that remain hidden. It's lazy and accomplishes nothing.
What is the point, honestly? We already have several scummy claims out there. Have we lynched anyone based on that? The one scum we did catch we caught through behavior and motivation, not because he had a scummy claim. I'm rereading DP1 in light of the flips. Will be pretty busy today but should be able to post at some point.
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@LucyStarfire
Basically just doing body movements alpha lion does makes human brain think you are alpha.
The next time I'm in a tense business meeting I'll attempt to lazily lick my ballsack and project alpha energy.
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I agree with the Supa lynch. To avoid a no lynch I'll just hammer now. Was pouring here and my basement started to flood last night so haven't been able to get on.
VTL Supa
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Reads so far:
1. Lunatic - Strengthener - Lean town
Initial scum read was based on a lack of behavioral analysis, hyperfocusing on roles and stuff like that, and having a hard-on for Supa for what seemed to me to be spurious reasons. As I reread the DP I realized I initially scumread Mikal for the role fixation as well but was clearly proven wrong by the town confirmation. Maybe the meta has really changed since I last played. As for the Supa lynch, the fact that I was wrong about the fake claims makes Luna's position seem a lot more reasonable.
2. Mikal/Castin - Town confirmed
3. Ultra - Null/Lean Scum
I would really like to see more activity from Ultra, it's incredibly paltry.
4. Whiteflame - Null/Lean Town
His reasoning seems town-motivated and genuine overall, but it's just a gauzy impression at this point and I think he's a good enough player to fool me. Been waffling on it all day.
5. Pie - ?
Asking for feedback on Pie from players who are more familiar with his style. Is he normally so bombastic? The very brazen and decisive reads make me lean town because scum are usually more risk-averse DP1 but is this just his playstyle?
7. Casey - Null
I'm just not confident in my ability to read Casey. I've heard that he's a good player and I'm not at all familiar with his playstyle, and he's being very reserved. I do agree with a lot of what he posts but he also could be buddying me, which I'm paranoid about.
8. Savant - Lean Town
He's the only inactive with a really good excuse, and the vanilla counterclaim just strikes me as something that scum wouldn't do. You put yourself in a potential 1v1 and risk a third vanilla claim coming out of the woodwork for... what?
9. Vader - Lean scum
Now that I'm not longer eliminating the possibility of him coming up with a fake claim his behavior seems a lot more plausible from a scum motivation standpoint. I'd like to hear more from him on his claim.
10. Irontoaster - Pressure Plate - JOAT: 3x Cop, 1x Poisoner, 1x Bomb Null/Lean scum
One of the reasons that I didn't articulate at the time when I was trying to get a read on Tuff/Luna is that his claim really doesn't make sense to me alongside this one. If town has a strengthener, what is the point if the cop is also a bomb? The role is already of limited use to town, the one person you'd want to use it on is the cop, but with this role doing that would be suicide. And since when is poisoner a town role? At first I town read Iron for this very bizarre and brazen claim but what if scum was given cop as a fake claim? This would be a really good way to both dissuade investigation and explain watcher results/deaths. Unless town has a lot of non-cop investigative roles it all makes little sense to me.
That said, half this read is due to inactivity and the other half is due to me now believing that Luna is more town than Iron is. He's said he will be more active, and I look forward to being able to get a better read on him.
11. Joebob - Null
I'd really like more reads and feedback on behavior from Joebob, his activity hasn't generated a lot of that and he seems to be on the periphery of every discussion.
12. Wylted - Null/Lean Town
If I recall correctly, Wylted plays quite brutally as scum and is willing to bus scummates who aren't pulling their weight and is also not shy about pushing mislynches. Correct me if he's changed his playstyle over the years. But I can't see that Wylted going against the grain on the Supa wagon the way that he has. If Supa was scum Wylted would have bussed his ass and if he was town he wouldn't be going against the grain to tap the brakes on that wagon.
13. Banana - Null
I'd really like more activity from Banana. She did at least give reads, which was more than we've gotten from the other inactives, but if I don't hear more from her by the end of today it will start to become a bit suspicious.
14. Cerulean - Null/Lean Scum
I still think the opening post was suspicious, and I haven't heard enough to solidify a read. The quieter he becomes the more suspicious I become. I'd really like Cerulean to pipe up. He said he was catching up earlier. His early reads of Mikal did make sense to me but then the activity dropped off a cliff.
I'd prefer lynching one of the more inactive players as I think that scum is more likely to be hiding there DP1, but I would settle for a Supa lynch. I hate no-lynching DP1 because it's one less flip to shed light on DP1 behaviors during DP2. I don't care about the math.
I'd prefer lynching one of the more inactive players as I think that scum is more likely to be hiding there DP1, but I would settle for a Supa lynch. I hate no-lynching DP1 because it's one less flip to shed light on DP1 behaviors during DP2. I don't care about the math.
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To be honest this is making me reassess my read on Supa/Vader in light of the possible lack of a fake claim. I'll revisit the whole thing again in the morning.
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@Mikal
It was mostly in how I wrote things in my notes. I wrote down that scum were given fake claims and that they were full claims as two separate lines and later on it just cemented in my head that they were given multiple full claims. I honestly didn't even think about them being given separate role and character claims. When Mharnam said 'both' I assumed that he meant they were given them coupled together.
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I guess it could be two technically that was an oversight on my part. But it definitely isn't one otherwise there'd be no plural.
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@ILikePie5
Going to bed now, but I had in my notes that somewhere in the first DP someone asked the mod to confirm if they were given full fake claims or partial and he said full. Then Luna I think had some posts where he said he estimated three scum players and the math made sense to me. So I've been acting off the assumption that we have three scum players with full fake claims.
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@Lunatic
Resurget seems to be going out of his way to defend Vader for him so if Vader is scum I think we should look into him. Ultra, banana, have been null and inactive, and are in the POE. You’re technically in the POE. Right now I’ve been mostly focused on whose been online and interacting.
Trying to get a read on you. In case you haven't noticed, the wagon on Supa has evaporated. I just don't find your read on him as 100% convincing so it's of interest to me.
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VTL Ceru
What's your take on the Vader/Supa situation? Who is your strongest town/scum read?
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@Lunatic
It's this:
If he is slipping up reading his PM and he is reading off his actual PM, he could be doing that as town or scum. It's affiliation neutral.
If he is slipping up because he is making up a fake claim and has no PM to read off of, it makes zero sense to do that as scum if he is going to claim vanilla.
In case one it's not a scumslip, just a Supaslip that he apparently makes as town or scum.
Case two seems very unlikely based on the vanilla claim.
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@Lunatic
My take on it is that he needed a wiki to see what a 'category' was in Terraria, and judging from what the wiki said it would be understandably confusing as someone who knowns literally nothing about Terraria. To be honest I'm glad the role shit got conversation started but I never put much stock in Mikal's analysis of your role or yours of Supa's. The bottom of the line for me is motivation and behavior. From what I understand, Supa getting flustered when claiming is pretty normal regardless of affiliation. So I look for motivation. Vanilla is literally the worst fake claim to have as scum because you're expected to never move and will be lynched if you do and scum picks up on it. Why go out of the way to claim it? No matter what their fake claims were, I feel like they could be used to explain movement during the NP. So why go out of the way and make up a different claim that could be ccd to claim vanilla of all things? Just give me a scum motivation where that makes sense.
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@Lunatic
My argument has been consistent since I initially called you out for it in 232. Mikal has issues with something else than me entirely. I don't even necessarily get mikals full argument."Going to redo this because I got a mod clarification. I have no identifier and apparently I read this wrong. So my item does not have a category period. In the pm it was looked like 2 words when it really should’ve been 1. So no I have 0 sub category"I asked you how you read your PM wrong and you said:"I didn’t read it wrong. My role should’ve been 1 word, not 2. I was confused cuz the wiki showed 1 but the PM showed 2. I asked a question and got a clarification. Didn’t read this wrong"I don't understand why you are using the wiki instead of just reading from your role PM.
The more I think about this the less sense it makes. What's the claim here? That scum were given three fake roles and fake claims and that Supa, a player who, from what I gather, is notorious for being unable to keep his story straight as scum or town, decides 'instead of taking one of these fake claims that are guaranteed to work, I'm going to invent my own fake claim?' Yeah, there's several reasons to make up your own fake claim outside of the ones your given, but none of them that I can think of end with you claiming vanilla. Can you think of a case where you would take that additional risk and what you get in return is that any night actions become more suspicious? The whole motivation doesn't make sense from a scum perspective. Lying about mod feedback is what sold me on the lynch, but now that that's 'deconfirmed' there's not a whole lot there really.
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@Castin
This is a tricky game, a lot of the time it seems like you guys aren't basing your behavioral reads on very much at all.
It's DP1, odds are we will mislynch. The important thing is to generate as much behavior as possible in order to be able to look back on that activity in light of the flip. To get that started requires a lot of bullshitting. This is also why I like to policy lynch inactives DP1. Scum is more likely to be subtly directing a DP1 wagon.
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A thought I had recently when I was looking at Savant is that at first I town read him for being the first person to claim an NPC instead of an item. But then I realized that it's a null read at best, because when it comes to theme analysis (if Luna is right about there being three scum), then they have access to six genuine claims (three real and three fake). They know waaaay more about the theme than any of us right off the bat and are unlikely to make silly role errors - in fact they'd be less likely to do it than town.
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