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@coal
From this, I don't know what you think about free will.
Yeah, I could have worded it a bit clearer. The part you omitted from what I said, "if there is such a thing as free will and that people experience it to degrees", then that would be my view on what free will is all about, that the average person has a higher degree of freedom than someone with a mental problem. You reworked my question by adding in degrees of freedom(which I thought was good) and that's what my view would be if I were to believe in degrees of freedom.
My specific views start with "For me, the buck stops at recognizing..." as I don't believe in any degree of freedom, you either have it or you don't, the origins of your choices are rather obvious(such as a brain tumor) or they are more complicated(a family history of alcoholism, what's my predisposition towards developing it, etc).
Now with that cleared up, I'll read your second post and use it to inform my views of free will.
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@coal
to what degree is a will free, if it is free in the first instance?
I think that's a better way to frame it. My view, if there is such a thing as free will and that people experience it to degrees, is that the average person has a high degree of free will when compared to a mentally ill person, whose thoughts, behaviors, etc are often manifestations of something wrong with their brain(a tumor, neurotransmitter issues, 'whatever').
And since there really isn't anything different about the human brain other than it being more complex than other animals' brains, humans would be at the top of the ladder with respect to how much degrees of freedom we experience as opposed to a frog or an insect.
I would be interested in hearing why you believe what you do.
For me, the buck stops at recognizing that free will doesn't arise out of a deterministic universe, and even if one wants to invoke indeterminism into the equation, the concept of free will doesn't become more tenable. Humans are made of nothing extraordinary and were shaped by the forces of nature. Evolving a complex brain doesn't separate us from our humble beginnings; it may distance us and create the illusion of free will or degrees of freedom. So, I'd say that there are no degrees of freedom and that we are bound to the physical universe. Maybe that's being "vacuous" but I've read/experienced nothing that would suggest I'm authoring my own thoughts and actions.
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@coal
Do you believe in free will, the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces?
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@bsh1
Sorry. It's spring cleaning, and we have to declutter.
lol it's ok. Even if it is unpinned, there's not enough activity in the forum for it to be buried and lost under 'whatever'.
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Probably some type of bird of prey. Pretty broad category but they are all pretty cool imo.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
How Did You Become An Atheist?
I became one simply by becoming more aware of the world around me. I grew up in a somewhat Catholic household, my family didn't stress it too much, but there were Christian influences, etc.
I became aware of other religions, how people believe in other deities with just as much conviction as people believe in the god of the bible, how there is no good evidence in support of any deity, so I stopped holding God in such high regard. The way I see it, these religions have been around for thousands of years and they still can't get their story straight amongst themselves.
And then I looked at stories in the bible like Noah's ark and realized how implausible they were. And then how the bible assumes we have free will opens up another can of worms as free will doesn't exist, so to base an entire religion on that false premise messes up everything else.
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@NoodIe
I heard unstobs are pretty nutritious. Sounds like a balanced breakfast!
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The internet has made our lives easier. Talking to people around the world in a timely manner is possible, getting information and conducting research is a lot easier, etc. Lots of benefits we experience due to the internet.
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@NoodIe
I'm doing well. Are you unstob? Who are you?
Funny vid lol. Check this one out, which is where I got the Hitler pic from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fsJGrx99R4&
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That song captures her entire existence perfectly. If people want to know what she's been all about for the past few months and beyond, feel free to hop in a hangout sometime.
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@blamonkey
@Discipulus_Didicit
Very nice hangout. With summer break coming up, hopefully, these things happen more often.
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@blamonkey
Here's one for later today or whenever
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@RM
She was flirting and cheating with the guy who kidnapped her now ex bf. Emily is a nut job
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@Vaarka
@blamonkey
@Discipulus_Didicit
A hangout tonight or this weekend would be cool
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I literally quoted your revised picture for me and said that I like it lol
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I didn't care for the cigarette
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I like it
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1. Something that radiates power, similar to a lion... or an Abrams tank...
2. Elusive
3. I would strive for somewhere in the middle, but I guess alpha.
4. I like competition.
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@Human
This site has real potential. Too bad its internet address doesn't pop up more in search results, like debate.org's for example.
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@Vader
We don't need people like you trying to take over the website and cry and bitch when they don't get their way
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@TheRealNihilist
lol it is a touchy subject for him.
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Someone, give RM a pacifier!
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Someone, give RM a pacifier!
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@ResurgetExFavilla
The only book deal he should get is being hit over the head with one lol
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@Alec
The moon is really the only sensible thing that we should try to colonize at the moment. We haven't even made a trip with people to Mars yet.
It would be pretty cool to transform the moon into some place that's habitable. Create an atmosphere, introduce agriculture to it, etc. Perfect place to test how we fair with regards to colonizing other celestial bodies.
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@Castin
It's ridiculous. Mayor Rahm Emanuel has said that the city is sending Smollett the bill for the investigative work in the hoax, which is $130,000.
I don't know how Smollett can recover his career after this entire situation. Although Trump weighed in on the matter via a Tweeet saying that he's going to have the FBI, etc probe the matter as well, Emanuel made clear that Trump's involvement and commentary of the situation is not welcomed and that Trump helped create the toxic atmosphere that allowed Smollett to think he could get away with staging a hoax.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
I've been a believer ever since my keto diet cured my eczema.
These liars need to be burned at the stake.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
XD noodleesque
dont forget pencil neck too, among the things that are solved with a keto diet.
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@blamonkey
The Alternative Hypothesis evidence is not compelling to me for a few reasons.First, the science on the correlation between brain size and intelligence is far from concrete. The Scientific American explains that when volunteers undergo MRI scans on their brains, researchers typically find a weak correlation between brain size and intelligence. Brain size only accounts for about 9-16% of variability in general intelligence according to the article (1). The article also explains neanderthal brains are actually bigger than the brains of the modern day human. Despite this difference in brain size, the modern day human is accomplishing more in the realms of technology and medicine than ever before.
I don't know if comparing the brain size with Neanderthals and using them as a benchmark to measure our growth in tech and medicine is fair. I think we were more or less on the same page as they were when we co-existed, and since their extinction, we are now thousands of years removed from that time period. Who knows what they could have made had they not gone extinct or if their brain size, etc would give them an advantage in today's society.
A large portion of the evidence provided in the article you cited came from Rushton's studies, some of which are littered with major logistical issues. Specifically, his 1995 study, in which he suggested that Mongoloid brains were bigger than Caucasian brains, which, in turn, were bigger than African-American brains. In the study, Rushton controlled for body size when making the measurements. Michael Peters of the University of Guelph cites 3 separate studies which show that body parameters are independent of brain size. Also, he shows that when not accounting for body size, whites have larger brains than Asians (2). Rushton acknowledged that Asian children had higher IQ scores than other races (3). Unless these IQ differences are somehow eliminated by adulthood, there emerges a major contradiction. If Asians have less brain mass, then how could they be smarter if brain size determines intelligence?Second, there is a large potential for bias in the work done by many of the researchers cited. I understand that in the era of "fake news," it seems redundant, (some might even say impertinent) to show bias within the sources. However, at least 2 of the people in the link, Rushton and Lynn, were at one point members of the Pioneer Fund (4). This fund is a non-profit group founded by people who were inspired by the Nazi eugenics program, and, later funded people such as Roger Pearson. Pearson was not only a eugenicist, he was also the creator of the Northern League, a neo-Nazi organization.
That was my concern, 'what exactly are they all about?'. I read the site's 'about' section and they are clearly among the alt-right and all that entails. I can acknowledge the possibility of brain size differences between races, but I personally wouldn't use a site with a lot of 'baggage'.
Third, and most importantly, the conclusion drawn does not seem to have much support. Even if there are physical differences between races, why would that necessarily stop people from reaching success? Great strides have been made to further the rights of blacks, and many have been able to become doctors, lawyers, politicians etc. Intelligence, which you seem to suggest is lacking in blacks, is determined through more than genetics. The U.S. National Library of Medicine suggests that nutrition, education, and home environment all affect IQ (6). Given the persistent gap between white and black earnings, perhaps some of these observed differences on IQ scores are to be expected (7). Poor households are ones that cannot afford tutoring, medicine, or healthy food.I suppose that IQ and race could be correlated. However, I am confused as to what US lawmakers. or in fact, anyone is supposed to do with that information. Creating a caste system by which only certain races can take certain jobs seems ridiculous. Obviously, not all black, white, or Asian people have IQs which are average for their race. If you don't believe me, listen to Jimi Hendrix and tell me with a straight face that the man was not a musical genius.IQ tests happen to be antiquated as well, and not good predictors of actual intelligence. A study published from the journal "Neuron" found that there are multiple, independent components of intelligence that a single integer cannot describe (8). Multiple "compartments" in the brain are used for different functions. These functions are largely determined by the external environment. For instance, those with chronic anxiety are less capable when it comes to short-term memory storage, and yet, could have extraordinary planning skills (8). Smoking, playing video games, and other choices that people make can also influence IQ (8). If the IQ is supposed to be an instrument which analyzes people's natural ability to learn, retain information, and analyze, then how can it change with external factors and still be considered to be a flawless test? In truth, science can do a lot, but it cannot reduce someone's brainpower to a mere number.Interesting post by the way. It is not letting me tag you for some reason Zarro. It is probably my computer.
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@coal
Forensic Files- pretty interesting to see all the different ways a person can be forensically linked to a crime.
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@Analgesic.Spectre
If RM isn't another New Zealand shooter in the making, I'm not sure who is.
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@Analgesic.Spectre
Discussing race and the various differences we see in humans due to it is definitely a sensitive topic and one where it's very easy to take it to extremes, as we've seen in the past and currently(Nazi Germany, KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc). The differences that divide us do not warrant the sentiments that define these groups/movements of intolerance, slavery, and genocide. In my opinion, to make this topic much more approachable, one should look at dogs to make sense of what variance within a subspecies can look like. We all acknowledge that some breeds are smarter than others, that some have better and worse attributes, and that some are predisposed to health issues while others are not. Some are clearly superior and inferior to each other, depending on what you are using to compare them.
With dogs such as pit bulls, it's completely fair to say that they are predisposed to aggression, courtesy of their genetic makeup and its effects on brain development, which can have negative outcomes. Couple that with the fact that many pit bulls come from less than ideal situations(dog fighting, abuse, etc), it's understandable that a lot of them will lash out, thus creating a negative stigma around them, which people use to issue bans on
pitbulls and say that they should be euthanized. There are plenty of parallels to be made in recent human history when people obsess a little too much about what makes us different instead of trying to bridge differences. Proper training goes a long way in remedying a pit bull's issues, and the sentiments surrounding them would be improved if people were willing to invest the time and effort to raising the dog properly.
If we were to look at health issues, we could draw a comparison to our situation where we have Neanderthal DNA(and the health implications it entails) to what dogs inherit due to their breed. German Shepherds are inclined to experience hip problems due to their lineage just as some of us are inclined to experience allergies due to inheriting Neanderthal DNA.
While brain size may differ and may be a manifestation of race/differences between us(I would like something other than 'alternative hypothesis' as a source), I believe that is generally a poor indicator of a race's intelligence. A chihuahua has the highest brain to body ratio of any dog, yet there are many breeds that outshine it when it comes to trainability, learning commands, etc. https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/pets/g4748/top-smartest-dog-breeds/
If we were to look at human brain size directly, males generally have a larger brain to body ratio than females. Despite this, men have shown to have a lot more variance with their IQ, which means you'll have a lot more men deviating from the average in both directions. The result is that, sure, more men may have higher IQ's than women, but you'll also have a lot more men that are idiots despite having a larger brain on average. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/study-finds-some-significant-differences-brains-men-and-women
Differences between us have inspired a lot of evil in our past. Some people literally make up silly metrics to divide us. It's understandable that a lot of people would not want to talk about us as inequals based on our race. However, it's important to acknowledge our differences and work to remedy them. In acknowledging them, it is also important not to take a wrong turn and demonize people or say that they have less of a right to live or that they are destined to live in poverty due to their race.
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@disgusted
But of course anyone who agrees with Nazism and Fascism is in need of serious medical intervention.
Anyone who takes out their political frustrations on innocent people needs an intervention, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum.
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