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@Alec
Let's say that this is the average murder involving a firearm, that they killed a person because they were angry, wanted to get revenge, etc.
I'd say that since murder is among the worst single crimes you can commit, it would be justified to subject that person to an array of torturous methods, as they have the same thing in common with the Christchurch shooter, a disregard for human life and others.
A gray area may be this: In this situation, this woman was playing with a gun and pointed it at a guy's head under the assumption it was unloaded only to have it fire, leaving him with life long disabilities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT1CuulU5H4
In this case, although she was charged with aggravated assault causing serious bodily injury, she expressed complete disregard for others and should be subjected to the same punishment for murderers.
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@Alec
so they aren't really suffering a lot for their life, they are just being tortured slightly until they adjust.
In this reality where we have the death penalty entailing someone being eaten by a lion, life in prison could be characterized by subjecting someone to waterboarding on certain days of the week, subjecting murderers to microwave weapons that torture them mentally and physically. I mean, no one is getting used to that stuff and that's not being tortured slightly.
I mean to the typical person, they wouldn't be interested in watching some murderer in prison because it's boring.
You can always show highlights of prisoners as they are in the middle of a waterboarding session, as they are being bombarded by microwaves, as they endure 'whatever'. It does not have to be boring.
would give the prisoners time to fear for their lives.
What do you do with the people who want to die? People who failed to commit suicide before being taken into custody? People who want an easy way out courtesy of a 5-minute session with a lion or who want to be in front of a firing squad? Not everyone who ends up on death row will be fearing for their lives.
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@Polytheist-Witch
well, you clearly care enough to provide us all your misinformed idea of what being an atheist entails.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Atheists believe in nothing, identify as nothing, care about nothing. What is to argue, their whole existence is based on not being something.
One can lack a belief in god(s) or disbelieve in god(s) while still caring about stuff and identifying as something.
Theists want to say X, Y, and Z is true when they have no evidence to back it up... so yeah, I will not believe what you claim about the universe while still caring about stuff.
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@Fallaneze
I disagree that our thoughts and behaviors are produced by deterministic forces.
I think mental illness goes a long way in showing that we do not have free will.
Pick a mental illness like schizophrenia... no one who has that wakes up one day and decides that they want to hear voices or to suffer from depression. The actions of one with schizophrenia are manifestations of the illness/when a brain doesn't work right.
They are literal victims of their own biology, with their thoughts and actions being determined by how their brain is structured, etc.
For the rest of us, just because we don't have an issue, doesn't mean we are any more free than them. We are bound by how our brain works, by our hormones, genetics, etc.
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Also, do you know what you are going to think of next?...
No one knows what they are going to think of next. Our thoughts merely pop up into our stream of consciousness. Intrusive thoughts are a clear example of this. No one wills them into existence yet they plague many people.
Just because your thoughts and actions are relatively normal and don't cause you to question whether or not you have authored them, does not mean they a product of free will.
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@ArgentTongue
Because consciousness entails a specific awareness and acknowledgment of the universe around the entity which has it. By this measure, free will, which is defined as action carried out within the parameters of discretion, and discretion defined as choice, it is clear conscious perception of options inherently constitutes free will.
Consciousness is a product of the right chemistry and biology coming together to create a brain, a product of the physical universe. When something disrupts the brain, your conscious experience is directly affected by that.
Personally, I've thought of this analogy:
A wing is a collection of stuff shaped in the right way to produce lift.
The brain is a collection of stuff formed in the right way to produce consciousness.
If you bend that wing, your flight performance is reduced or ceases to exist.
If you suffer a stroke, your consciousness is reduced to varying degrees or can cease to exist in the case of death.
Sure, the phenomena that arise from a specific arrangement of chemistry and biology that we know as consciousness is innumerably more complicated than lift/flight, but they both have their origins in the physical universe and are both bound by it.
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@Alec
Because life is extremely valuable.
To an extent. Some people would rather die on their feet than live on their knees. Or die on their own terms instead of being forced to deal with a myriad of issues that result from disease and sickness, or what typically follows a murder(guilt, shame, fear of retribution).
Who is willing to see some murderer in prision? It's just not entertaining for the average person to watch. Watching them get painfully executed, or eaten by a lion or something will deter many more people from committing murder and would help pay for the execution via ticket sales.
Chances are, if people are buying tickets to watch a person getting eaten by a lion, they see it more like entertainment and you'd have a select few who actively try to get their 15 minutes of fame by killing someone in order to fight a lion on national TV.
"Who is willing to see some murderer in prision?"
Exactly. Where is the appeal in knowing that if you murder someone, you'll be stuck in a prison cell actively getting tortured and having your life prolonged in order to continue a painful existence, ultimately serving a grim reminder of what awaits murderers? There is no excitement of fighting lions and having audience cheering. You have a camera panning over you once in a while to show everyone your pitiful existence and there is no fame involved.
Suffering is only experienced so long as they are alive, so if you are willing to entertain the idea of feeding people to lions to give everyone 15 minutes of painful fun at the expense of someone and hoping people learn a lesson from seeing that, you should be willing to get behind the idea of having someone tortured for life without all the glamour and excitement that a modern Colosseum would bring.
Any cameras in the cell ruins the whole point of solitary confinement which is to be as isolated as possible. Once the murderer discovers the cameras, he would be happy.
In this reality, the murderer doesn't have free range of his cell. He's tied down to a bed and forced to experience what I described above. There is no dancing and acting like a fool in front of the cameras.
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@Fallaneze
Random does not mean uncaused. The universe is either deterministic or not deterministic.
Or, some combination of the two. We can determine a lot of things in this world, like the trajectory of a bullet or what side a coin will land on; we can determine the paths of celestial objects and the weather to a certain degree. You run into randomness, defined as without definite aim, direction, rule, or method, when you look at the quantum level.
Regardless of how you classify the universe, as deterministic or not, nowhere does free will arise. Either your thoughts and actions can largely find their origins in the various factors(genetics, neurochemistry, upbringing, etc) that make you, you or they are just the results of random interactions courtesy of the quantum level. I don't see free will in either situation and neither should you.
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@mustardness
Correct. Biological or non-biological stems from the exact same elements of Uni-V-erse. Biologicals do not some special kind element that all other aspects of Nature//Uni-V-erse //Cosmos does not have.
Free will doesn't exist. The universe is either deterministic or random, and any combination of the 2 doesn't produce free will.
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@Alec
I'm pretty sure that living anyhow is better then not living at all.
Living anyhow(?) is better than not living at all? There's plenty of situations a person can find themselves in where death is the ideal option. Have you ever had any pets? Euthanizing an animal that is suffering from cancer, a ruptured gall bladder, or etc, and who has a questionable chance of survival with surgery is objectively the better decision than having it suffer just because. I can totally see why someone suffering from a terminal illness would like to go out on their own accord than lay in a bed as they succumb to whatever is killing them. You can extend this illness to a sickness of the mind for those who are crazy enough to kill someone. That's what they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Withholding treatment and forcing them to live a miserable existence is more effective at achieving justice than letting them out the back door.
I'm very scared of death
Why are you scared of simply ceasing to exist? Unless you believe in an afterlife that may be characterized by people spending an eternity in hell for simply not believing in the right God(s), there's nothing to be scared of other than the fact that death can come at any moment and cut your life short. This just means make the most of your life, not to be paranoid about when death will knock on your door.
I personally would rather have an air conditioned cell and 3 meals a day then to get executed if I were a murderer.If executions are public and broadcasted, and the murderers die a painful death
Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. If a person is convicted of murder, they should not be in an airconditioned cell. IMO that should be reserved for non-violent offenses, etc.
The ideal sentence for someone convicted of murder, if your aim is to put them through a painful ordeal and to dissuade others from murdering, is to simply torture them for life, broadcast it if you wish, as opposed to a public flogging or whatever that leaves them dead in a short period of time.
They only suffer so long as they are alive and hosting public executions in a way shortens what could be a life long broadcast of what results when you choose to murder, rape, etc.
But, since we like to think of ourselves as a civilized people, life in solitary confinement without all the amenities is the next best option lol.
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@Alec
Life imprisonment is not strong enough for a crime like murder.
Couldn't you view life in prison as worse than being executed for murder? Let's assume that when a person dies, their consciousness dies along with them. The murderer is essentially having their life, and everything that entails, terminated, but it's also an escape from what they've done. One could view it as putting a demonstrably dangerous person out of their misery as they have no chance of redemption, they are too far gone and there is no chance of them being reintegrated and rehabilitated into society. Plus, many people kill themselves to escape justice or the feeling of guilt after committing crimes like murder, so idk if them dying really is worse than life in prison.
When you kill someone, their punishment ends the second they lose consciousness as opposed to them being subjected to a lifetime of sitting in incarceration, experiencing the 'pleasantries' of prison life, as life passes them by due to their actions. I'd say forcing someone to live with the guilt of what they've done, or simply denying them a way to kill themselves to escape their reality and situation, is worse than killing them. A lifetime in solitary confinement would be stronger than simply removing someone from existence.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
That's a pretty accurate way of describing what's going on. The attempt to purge the politics that the left doesn't agree with out of the media only serves to strengthen the motive and resolve of people who feel like their only way to be heard is through killing other people.
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@Uther-Penguin
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@Uther-Penguin
Having another one this Friday would be cool if people are up for one.
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@blamonkey
@Uther-Penguin
Maybe have one later on
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lol, no longer, for reasons that I'll explain to you and others if they want to know.
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@Vader
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@blamonkey
@Discipulus_Didicit
Maybe we could have one this weekend.
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@blamonkey
Bump. Maybe we could have one later on.
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I am taking a break from this account for 15 days. I was able to bring that down from 3 weeks to 15 days. Despite this being my first ban, I'd say it was worth it.
I'll make appearances on the hangouts to hang out with the regulars. I do not know if the hangouts are under the Code of Conduct; therefore I will NOT discuss uncomfortable truths about a certain user with other people who have also picked up on, looked into, and arrove at the same conclusion as myself.
Discord is always an option, not too familiar with the platform... And I look forward to the predictable words and actions by those who will view this as a personal victory. I can't necessarily blame them since it was so easy for me to get under their skin and make them cry or show that they are not who they say they are.
At the end of the day, it is what it is, and it was a lot of fun.
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@KingLaddy01
I searched google for autistic children and this random guy's pic came up.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
*brofist*
Yeah, I'm a fan too. Dealing with autistic children can be tiring, as we've come to know courtesy of RM.
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@blamonkey
I'll join in like 40 minutes if you are still there.
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@KingLaddy01
Hopefully, his looks have improved since that weird video he took. If they have, we may be in for a treat ;)
I might just lose it if he decides to try his hand as a cam girl.
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Why ask them? Because it shows that you are wrong about me not going without the mask and that you talk out of your ass.Why should I ask them, why not show me?
Also, it's kinda hard to show you when you run like a little girl from the hangouts when I join. Remember when you dropped an insult in the chat and ditched right as I joined? Classic lol
But don't let my face be the topic of discussion. You said it was a selfless act for you to make us laugh, so the next time you decide to rear your head in the hangouts, make us laugh by turning on your cam so we can see what you are working with ;)
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Bitch you're the pussy who hides your face while turning the cam on to encourage others. You called yourself a fucking burn victim trying to convince others that was your face and to Con them into showing their face.
Bennett and Cody saw my face in a hangout, just ask them lol.
Now hop in a hangout and show us those arms and that pencil neck ;)
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@KingLaddy01
he wants a book to be published about him to.
I think one already has been published about him:
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Spin your weirdness however you'd like, compare yourself to the Einsteins and the Eminems, it didn't stop you from making an absolute ass out of yourself in the hangout and elsewhere.
Since you see it as a selfless act to bring laughter to us, hop in a hangout sometime and show off those noodle arms of yours ;)
Since you see it as a selfless act to bring laughter to us, hop in a hangout sometime and show off those noodle arms of yours ;)
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Lots of people wouldn't be able to keep up with you as you descend down a rabbit hole of mental illness and delirium.Sane bullies vs nutcase eccentrics, you guys will get outplayed to hell and back with brains incapable of keeping up with us.
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Finally you made yourself look like you have half of a brain. By saying this “A forum is where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.” It just unfortunately you failed on this level. You never did bring any new ideas, and your only view was a troll. I was ready and willing to expand our discussion further, it just you were unwilling to, or lack the knowledge to go further.
@whatthef
In case you didn't pick up on it, my posts to you provide ideas and tips on how to actually come across as a well-intentioned individual who has actual ideas of site betterment and how to remove the lack of consistency in your words and actions. The particular issue at hand is how you conducted yourself in the conversation with blamonkey and how your decorum(or lack thereof) was not in line with your aim of site betterment nor was it conducive towards getting what you wanted-the site owner into the hangouts to discuss real things as it pertains to the site.
I've been very consistent in providing my view on your general ignorance of how you come off to others. I told you the appropriate medium that you should have a conversation in if you don't want people 'butting' into your talk. I told you how your actions are grossly out of line with someone who allegedly wants to better the site. I highlighted and told you how your lack of consistency only serves to discredit your attempt to improve discourse on this site.
In exchange for these entirely reasonable pointers on how to better your behavior, you provided denials, hypocrisy, and general stupidity. Ultimately, your poor attitude got you nowhere you wanted. It had the owner of the site telling you to knock off your nonsense and now it has gotten you banned.
You know how to do one thing, that's digging your own grave XD
I've been very consistent in providing my view on your general ignorance of how you come off to others. I told you the appropriate medium that you should have a conversation in if you don't want people 'butting' into your talk. I told you how your actions are grossly out of line with someone who allegedly wants to better the site. I highlighted and told you how your lack of consistency only serves to discredit your attempt to improve discourse on this site.
In exchange for these entirely reasonable pointers on how to better your behavior, you provided denials, hypocrisy, and general stupidity. Ultimately, your poor attitude got you nowhere you wanted. It had the owner of the site telling you to knock off your nonsense and now it has gotten you banned.
You know how to do one thing, that's digging your own grave XD
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@whatthef
I don't care if this is a public forum. Point is you jump in for no apparent reason… You can't dispute that you not a troll. Point proven!
You should care. A forum is where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. If you don't want an open discussion where this takes place, the forms are not the place for you.
And I can prove that I'm not a troll. Join the hangouts and find out who people consider to be the troll ;) Or you can just look at your own forum history and see quite clearly that you are the troll. Despite claiming it is your mission to better the site by having adult sized conversations with the mod and others in and out of the hangouts, all your posting history reflects is that you keep replying to a conversation that you said was over and done on your end. You failed hilariously at proving that talking to you in a hangout is worth the owner's time and you keep making an ass out of yourself.
Now look who name calling. I didn't name call you at all in my lost post.
You may have not name called me, but you sure did display your general ignorance of the site. You said that blamonkey and I never wanted someone who could "actually do thing's" to join the hangout, even though that is false. Bsh, the head mod, has joined hangouts in the past and is always welcome to join future ones... not that you would know that(after all, you decided to sit around and lurk for 3 months before making yourself look retarded in the forums).
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@whatthef
You step into this conversation without being invited.
No one has to be invited to step in. It's a public forum. As said before, you want privacy? Take it to a PM, then no one step into your little conversation ;)
BTW, you keep going on with this conversation too. Not just me.
Who's the one who keeps saying that they are done with the convo yet they keep on posting long, drawn out replies that only serve to illustrate their idiocy? That's you lol. I created the thread, I frequent the hangouts, and I'll keep posting here so long as you keep spamming your stupidity. Don't like it? Stop replying and get off of the thread, crackpot. I enjoy seeing you make a fool of yourself with each post so I won't be leaving this conversation so long as you keep replying.
In the words of the site owner(someone you want to talk to so badly), knock it off ;)
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@Zeichen
@blamonkey
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@whatthef
Firstly, I don't care what other people think of me.
That much is obvious lol. You continue to act like a troll, people have taken note of your behavior, and it only serves to discredit what you have to say. If you want to act like an ass, don't be surprised when people don't take you seriously or when the one person you want to talk to in a hangout tells you to knock your nonsense off XD Your behavior defeats your mission of site betterment.
As for this conversation it is getting tiring.
You said it was a waste of your time prior, yet you keep responding. Make up your mind and stop being stupid. The only thing you've managed to do is discredit yourself, ideas you may have, and go against what you allegedly want to do-better the site.
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@whatthef
BTW me talking to blamonkey, isn't prove of anything.
It is proof that you have no idea of how to have an adult-sized conversation and that your attitude displayed in that conversation was not conducive towards improving anything. And I'm not the only one saying that lol, join the hangout and ask how you are viewed.
And I'm sticking to what I said earlier. I won't join until I get the site owner on.
You pick and choose what you decide to stick to. Before, you said how you were done with the convo yet here you are still posting crap.
But again I just feel like I be wasting my time in there.
*doesn't want to join the hangout without the owner due to a perceived waste of time
*continues to engage in a conversation that they say is a waste of time
Talk about being inconsistent, you are all about 'not wasting time', yet here you are continuing a conversation you said is a waste of your time.
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