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@Yassine
Yassine- Take a deep breath there buddy
You are rather quiet on this subject. Are you on the side of the Iranian Morality police?
--> @Shila- Which subject is that?
The one you are responded to titled: The beauties of Islam.
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@Tarik
I never said The Bible was or wasn’t the word of God, I simply made a general statement
Your non-committal position and generalization was not helpful.
K_Michael’s error wasn’t helpful, and I resent that notion of me.
Your non-committal position quote: “I never said The Bible was or wasn’t the word of God.”
And generalization quote: “I simply made a general statement.”
…….was not helpful.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You're going to sit there and tell me the Democrats can't fix democracy now?When Democrats had huge majorities, from 1932 to 1970, they transformed this country. Presidents like Roosevelt and LBJ signed hundreds of bills from those Congresses into law. We got SS, unemployment insurance, laws to protect the environment, civil rights laws, Medicare benefits, on and on. The Republicans resisted all of it but when they realized they couldn’t stop it and the laws were popular, they eventually joined in.
Biden achieved a lot even with the slim majority the Democrats have in both House and Senate? Look at how Trump spent the last two years as Biden made America well again.
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@Avery
And what are police officers and society doing to help cops be seen as friendly protectors that have a code in the eyes of the predominantly black communities in US?That, TWS, is the real root cause and real solution.What an ass-backwards and wrong way of framing the situation lol.The correct question is this: what are the civilians doing to get shot? In this case, it appears to be grabbing the gun/taser of an officer. It shouldn't be up to the officers and "society" (whatever that means) to make that situation PR friendly to the black community. It should be up to the people not to commit the serious crime in the first place.The crime is the real root cause, and the real solution is prosecuting criminals.
Which is exactly what the officer did not do when he shot Pamela. She was not a criminal, she had some mental issues.
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@TWS1405
-> @Shila->@TWS1405--> @ShilaI hat you just wrote absolutely zero sense!!!Cops are trained to defend themselves from an assailant using their taser against them. Because if they don’t and the cop gets tased, the assailant could and would take their service pistol and kill them and then others in their escape.Why wasn’t the taser secured before the officer approached Pamela Turner?Can you prove it wasn't secure?Do you know what kind of taser holster he was issued?Yeah, didn't think so...
The reason she went for the taser was because the officer already had his gun in his hand. She needed to defend herself. And seeing the taser not secured reached for it.
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@zedvictor4
-->@ShilaNo idea what you're getting at.
Whites set the standard for beauty. One would expect they would at least meet it. But ugly vs attractive is a white issue after they passed the albino standard for white set by whites.
Albinism is the congenital absence of melanin in an animal or plant resulting in white hair, feathers, scales and skin and pink or blue eyes.
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@TWS1405
--> @Public-Choice--> @TWS1405I'm waiting to see how being black will somehow tie into this. After all, you blame them for everything else in life.“Everything else in life”? Nope. Just half the violent crime in this country and the segment that’s overtly racist towards anyone not black (namely whites).
Why are you blaming blacks for white racism?
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@Stephen
Those were your arguments affirming Josephus was both a historian and PRIEST and had access to the temple scrolls.
So Josephus)s account of Jesus had to be even more accurate than just a Historian.
And therein lies your problem. It has not ever been established that these few inserted lines were written by Josephus as I wrote in my very first post here> #3
But you said , “What I said was that Josephus was in a better position than both you and I to understand the theology of the times because he was given the temple scrolls after the fall of the city. AND THAT HE WAS A PRIEST.”
Those were your arguments affirming Josephus was both a historian and PRIEST and had access to the temple scrolls.
So Josephus)s account of Jesus had to be even more accurate than just a Historian.
shila wrote: The first non-Christian writer to talk about Jesus was the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (born Yosef ben Matityahu),who lived around AD 47-100.
Stephen wrote: This will be the very much debated The Testimonium Flavianum, which other scholars believed was added by the Christian apologist Eusebius. Indeed many modern scholars reject it altogether. And further, Josephus doesn't refer to him as a god.
The thread is about the case for the Historical Jesus. That there is evidence Jesus existed as a person. Josephus provides such evidence.
I also wrote : What Josephus appears to say is extremely very little concerning the biblical Jesus which amounts to just a handful of questionable lines, and these are rejected by many scholars. I am sure Josephus - a priest himself- would have afforded the son of god a little more than a handful of lines, don't you? #14
So you are not saying Josephus did not write about Jesus. You switch to comments by scholars who were not there even though you affirm Josephus was both a historian and PRIEST and had access to the temple scrolls.
And I have also written - It appears to me that you have run out of steam and can only repeat what you have already said and are now reduced to simply repeating your blatant lies and no doubt you will invent new lies. I honestly believed I was going to have a decent conversation on this thread.
You appear stuck in your own contradiction first attacking the credibility of the Historian Josephus after affirming Josephus was both a historian and PRIEST and had access to the temple scrolls.
And second you attack Shila for building a case for the Historical Jesus with evidence from Historian Josephus even though you affirm Josephus was both a historian and PRIEST and had access to the temple scrolls.
I will only respond if I feel it is necessary.You simply couldn't stand the pace you deceitful fkn amateur.
You have accepted the historical Jesus. That is the objective of the case for the Historical Jesus to get people to accept Jesus existed as a person.
Read your post,
Stephen wrote: “And I accept there was such a man that lived in 1st century Palestine - minus the miracles. “
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@zedvictor4
--> @ShilaYep, as I stated Jesus/Joshua/Yeshua is/was a character recorded in historical narratives and we know roughly where he was said to have lived, there's no denying that.And that's about all one can say for certain.And yep 1632, that's the point I try to get across. All is made up after the event
So I can count you as one who accepts the case of the Historical Jesus. Thank you.
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@Public-Choice
--> @BrotherD.ThomasDid you get your theology diploma from a cracker jack box?If you go to the Greek and Hebrew you'll find that your analysis is completely uncalled for and taken entirely out of context from its original purpose.Shila isn't preaching a sermon or leading a church right now. This is a public forum where a discussion is being had. There is nothing in the Bible that says sharing the gospel is a sin.
Thank you.
Shila was building a case for the Historical Jesus. I am surprised at the interest it is generating.
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@Vici
--> @ShilaGreat post!
Thank you. Let me repeat the great post.
Stephen wrote: “What I said was that Josephus was in a better position than both you and I to understand the theology of the times because he was given the temple scrolls after the fall of the city. AND THAT HE WAS A PRIEST.”
Those were your arguments affirming Josephus was both a historian and PRIEST and had access to the temple scrolls.
So Josephus)s account of Jesus had to be even more accurate than just a Historian.
Shila used Josephus as evidence in the case for the historical Jesus.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
A Accidental honor killing.
Is that your conclusion that it was an accidental honour killing?
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@Tradesecret
--> @BrotherD.ThomasI have never changed genders. My gender remains the same as it was the day I was born.Of course on the forum page for profiles - the characteristics I have identified have changed numerous times.I have offered as an explanation for this several factors:1. I was being stalked by both Brother Thomas and Stephen.2. I may have been hacked.3. I felt like changing it because I can.4. It is actually a similar tactic that Brother Thomas used - since his profile is a fake profile.Any and All of these factors are individually or taken together sufficient explanation for the change on my profile.And honestly, the repeated attacks - and defamatory abuse by Brother, Stephen and now Shila or harikrish whatever its name is now - demonstrates reasonable and overwhelming excuse for my behaviour.In any event, au revoir
Are you admitting here your gender change was because of external pressure? You have to become a woman to please all your critics.
You gave other reasons for your depravity.
In relation to God calling me. That is the point. I did not choose God - he chose me. I would never have chosen God - since I was totally depraved. Total does not mean so evil I was evil - but so totally depraved that I could not save myself. There was no deceit in what I said.
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@Tarik
--> @K_MichaelIf the Bible isn't the word of God, then what indication do you have that He agrees with it?I never said The Bible was or wasn’t the word of God, I simply made a general statement
This is why the conversation continued without you. Your non-committal position and generalization was not helpful.
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@oromagi
--> @ShilaWhy are Americans so fascinated by British classics?They speak English. I'd argue that the English are even more entranced by Americans.
Americans invented TV. The Brits were forced to learn how English should be spoken.
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@Elliott
Getting old sucks.
You need to pick younger partners for what you do to them.
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My record still stands.
The Five Worst Sports Cities, According To Futures Betting Odds · 5. Chicago · 4. Seattle · 3. Minneapolis/St. Paul · 2. Washington, D.C. · 1. Detroit.
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@Greyparrot
--> @Double_RTrump started no wars, fact checked true.Another disgusting fact to add on to a disgusting man. When do we get to see some blood for god's sake?
Trump’s vision of global peace was to have a Trump tower in every country starting with Russia and North Korea.
But the American tax payers refused to pay for it and booted him out of office.
Republicans have changed their mind since and now support Trump’s vision for Trump Towers.
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@Avery
You can list all the awards you want, but that doesn't excuse the disastrous consequences of this man's actions.Anthony is partly responsible for Covid. He helped secure funding for the gain of function research conducted in Wuhan. He is also on record lying about this ("does not fund gain-of-function research and if it is" -- massive contradiction): Exchange between Sen. Rand Paul and Dr. Anthony Fauci - YouTubeKeep all this in mind as Anthony talks about the "profound ways" Covid impacted these students
I believe one of them has a fake degree.
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@Reece101
--> @ShilaThe cognitive regression of boomers is more of a natural process.
Are you attributing the decline of America to a natural process of cognitive regression?
How much long term damage do you think the lockdown policies will have on children in addition to the natural process of cognitive regression?
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@zedvictor4
--> @ShilaAlbinos are albinos.And the colour scale darkens from there on in.Interestingly there are black albinos, which is to say, people who are racially black who display albinism.Which sort of puts the old black white issue into perspective
Whites set the standard for beauty. One would expect they would at least meet it. But ugly vs attractive is a white issue after they passed the albino standard for white.
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@TWS1405
--> @ShilaI hat you just wrote absolutely zero sense!!!Cops are trained to defend themselves from an assailant using their taser against them. Because if they don’t and the cop gets tased, the assailant could and would take their service pistol and kill them and then others in their escape.
Why wasn’t the taser secured before the officer approached Pamela Turner?
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@Swagnarok
This is a joke of a ruling, and Alex Jones can rest certain that it'll be overturned or whittled down to less than 1/10th its current size upon appeal.
George Floyd’s family got 27million for his death. Alex Jones is fined almost a billion for someone else’s killing spree. Even Alex would wish the victims were black.
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@sadolite
--> @ShilaAre you going to honor my request to not respond to my posts? Or are just going to continue to be a fucking asshole? I think I already know the answer and so does everyone else.
I am not responding to your post. You haven’t posted anything that needs responding to. But you are attacking my asshole and I am forced to defend myself against perverts.
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaYour main struggle is with miracles.
You have accepted the historical Jesus.
YES, minus the miracles,
So your problem is with the miracles in the Bible.
I don't have any struggles at all. I have many problems with much of the NT and not just the so-called miracles.
Now you are admitting you have many problems with much of the NT and not just the so-called miracles.
Wrong again you clown. In many of those threads of mine I have clearly stated that I believe that a man called Jesus existed but that I can never prove my belief...... and neither can YOU! and my position hasn't changed or waivered since the day I joined here.
So you could not build a case for Jesus.
Correct, and neither can you.I simply believe a man named Jesus existed. He believed himself to be- or was led to believe himself to be rightful heir to the throne of David as king of the Jews and Jerusalem. And that it was this belief that got him executed. He performed no miracles and failed miserably to fulfil the requirements of an expected messiah as many messiahs had before him and since.
But Shila did in this thread.
Speaking in the second person again!?
You even affirm Josephus researched the temple scrolls to search for the historical Jesus.
I have just covered this blatant lie told by you. And I have shown that I said no such thing. HERE>>
shila wrote: Remember Flavius Josephus was an Historian and not a theologian.
Stephen wrote: Josephus was a high-ranking warrior priest; of some royal decent, so I am sure he understood the "theology" of the day much better than either you or me. And if you have read all the works of Josephus, you will know that it was he that got his hands on the collection of the sacred temple scrolls after the fall of the city. #14Have you actually read the works of Josephus? Because I have.#14Do you see that clown? No mention at all concerning Josephus' reasons for having the scrolls at all is there? I mention nothing at all of researching Jesus or research at all.It appears to me that you have run out of steam and can only repeat what you have already said and are now reduced to simply repeating your lies and no doubt you will invent new lies. I honestly believed I was going to have a decent conversation on this thread. You simply couldn't stand the pace you fkn amateur.I have made my position more than clear and more than once.I will only respond if I feel it is necessary.
Stephen wrote: “What I said was that Josephus was in a better position than both you and I to understand the theology of the times because he was given the temple scrolls after the fall of the city. AND THAT HE WAS A PRIEST.”
Those were your arguments affirming Josephus was both a historian and PRIEST and had access to the temple scrolls.
So Josephus)s account of Jesus had to be even more accurate than just a Historian.
Shila used Josephus as evidence in the case for the historical Jesus.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
--> @Shila.Shila,CEASE AND DESIST NOW!!!How dare you go against Jesus' inspired words by being a woman and preaching to men?! Just who in the hell do you think you are?! Remember, you are nothing but a 2nd class pseudo-christian citizen in being a mere woman, where the man rules over you at all times!You have RAN AWAY from the following Jesus inspired passages THREE TIMES NOW in embarrassment not only to you, but to this Religion Forum and Jesus the Christ! ENOUGH OF YOUR BLASPHEME!You are in complete violation to Jesus' words shown below in what He thinks about your unsatisfactory gender of being a woman, by not following His doctrine regarding you being a defective women! Therefore, where do you get the authority to slap Jesus in the face with you creating a thread about Him as a 2nd class woman that is not to "try" and teach men in any way whatsoever and other demeaning biblical facts of your female gender?!1. "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)
It is logical God would not want Adam’s rib (Eve) to be smarter than Adam.
But remember Eve ate the fruit of knowledge first and then offered it to Adam so he would not be dumber than her.
2. “ But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman in man. For the man is not of the women; but the woman of the man.” (1Corinthians 11: 3,8 )
It is logical God would not want Adam’s rib (Eve) to be smarter than Adam.
But remember Eve ate the fruit of knowledge and then offered it to Adam so he would not be dumber than her.
3. “I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare.” (Ecclesiastes 7:26)
The weakness here is in man.
4. "The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)
It is logical God would not want Adam’s rib (Eve) to be smarter than Adam.
But remember Eve ate the fruit of knowledge and then offered it to Adam so he would not be dumber than her.
5. "Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)
Women are needed so a man’s prayers may not be hindered. Sounds like a dependency.
6. "It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife." (Proverbs 21:9)
It is now called man cave. Small space reserved for the man of the house. women get the rest.
7. "It is better to live in a desert land than with a quarrelsome and fretful woman." (Proverbs 21:19)
God gave the man limited choices.
8. “ It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.” (Proverbs 21:9)
God gave the man limited choices.
9. "A quarrelsome wife is as annoying as constant dripping on a rainy day. Stopping her complaints is like trying to stop the wind or trying to hold something with greased hands." (Proverbs 27:15-16)
Women are unstoppable. It’s biblical.
10. " Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire." (1 Timothy 2:9)
Women should be prepared to accept men with low means.
11. "For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior." (Ephesians 5:23)
Aren’t women glad Jesus did not marry. Jesus remained unemployed throughout his life.
12. "For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1 Corinthians 11:8-9)
That contradicts Genesis 2:18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
Shila dear, do you want to call Jesus' inspired words above towards demeaning women as LIES? Then you dig yourself deeper into the hole you have provided for yourself because of the following JESUS INSPIRED passages:
I checked my red letter Bible. None of the quotes above came from Jesus. Jesus was never an authority on women. Even at 30 he remained single. But hung around with 12 men. One lied to him the other betrayed him.
“EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5).“And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.” (Luke 4:4)“Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.” (James 1:22)Therefore, every word of Jesus is to be followed, and a TRUE Christian does what it says to do relative to the two-bit woman, period! Understood Bible fool SHILA?!
Jesus was crucified and the 12 disciples were eventually killed. It was always a man’s club.
Shila, Close this thread of yours to save you from further embarrassment in front of Jesus as He watches you discard His words relative to what He thinks of the lower class woman! "And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account." (Hebrews 4:13)
Shila was the first on DebateArt to built the case for the Historical Jesus. No woman betrayed Jesus in the Bible.
NEXT STUPID AND IGNORANT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WOMAN LIKE SHILA THAT GOES AGAINST JESUS' TRUE WORDS REGARDING THE INFERIOR WOMAN WILL BE ...?
But remember Eve ate the fruit of knowledge first and then offered it to Adam so he would not be dumber than her.
But the delay could not be avoided. Nor could circumcision restore the differences in IQ.
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@Stephen
You have accepted the historical Jesus.
YES, minus the miracles, !!FFS how many times? But I have also said that I cannot prove the biblical Jesus existed. And I have disputed your offering as any type of evidence for his existence too, which has gone completely unchallenged by YOU!.If you want to derail your own thread by continuously repeating what you offer as evidence, then knock yourself out. But your thread will die a death before much longer.
You accept the Historical Jesus. This thread is titled: The case for the Historical Jesus.
You even affirm Josephus researched the temple scrolls to search for the historical Jesus.
Stop telling lies you deceitful fkr.I have said nor suggested any such thing. What I said was that Josephus was in a better position than both you and I to understand the theology of the times because he was given the temple scrolls after the fall of the city. AND THAT HE WAS A PRIEST. I mention nothing about it being to do with Josephus "researching or search for the historical Jesus". If this is how you mean to go on you may as well throw in the towel now, you clown because you won't win a argument by being deceitful and blatantly lying.here is my full quote and what caused me to say it:
Read your argument. You even affirm Josephus researched the temple scrolls to search for the historical Jesus. After all Josephus was in a better position than both you and I to understand the theology of the times because he was given the temple scrolls after the fall of the city. AND THAT HE WAS A PRIEST.
Stephen wrote: “What I said was that Josephus was in a better position than both you and I to understand the theology of the times because he was given the temple scrolls after the fall of the city. AND THAT HE WAS A PRIEST.”
shila wrote: Remember Flavius Josephus was an Historian and not a theologian.Stephen wrote: Josephus was a high-ranking warrior priest; of some royal decent, so I am sure he understood the "theology" of the day much better than either you or me. And if you have read all the works of Josephus, you will know that it was he that got his hands on the collection of the sacred temple scrolls after the fall of the city. #14Have you actually read the works of Josephus? Because I have.#14Stephen wrote: If you are going to tell blatant lies such as this, you can fk right off.
Those were your arguments affirming Josephus was both a historian and PRIEST. “And if you have read all the works of Josephus, you will know that it was he that got his hands on the collection of the sacred temple scrolls after the fall of the city.”
You have contributed 198 threads. But not a single case for the Historical Jesus. Well you have one now!!
Wrong again you clown. In many of those threads of mine I have clearly stated that I believe that a man called Jesus existed but that I can never prove my belief...... and neither can YOU! and my position hasn't changed or waivered since the day I joined here.
So you could not build a case for Jesus. But Shila did in this thread.
You have contributed 198 threads.
To your one.Off you go now you deceitful little fkr
Your main struggle is with miracles. So what hope do you have of change?
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@Sidewalker
That is so great, what is disgusting is that he has that kind of money from being a whackjob lunatic, sad comentary on our society.
Trump is being investigated for being more than just a lunatic.
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@sadolite
--> @zedvictor4Actually you are wrong, there are ugly people and there are attractive people in appearance. It is absolute undeniable fact. It isn't some made up social construct.
Are you giving more reasons why racism goes beyond white and black?
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@Yassine
--> @Best.Korea- Take a deep breath there buddy
You are rather quiet on this subject. Are you on the side of the Iranian Morality police?
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@Stephen
Public-Choice : And all this time I thought you weren't actually Catholic.
I was accused of being a bot. But all this time you thought I was actually Catholic. I guess the mods had to make a choice. They banned the bot.
And I am not sure they got that correct. You keep referring to yourself in the second person..>>>
There are a number of places where Jesus refers to himself in the third person. The most common is when he uses the title 'Son of Man' (by my count, there are some 78 times Jesus uses that title in the gospels!). For example Matthew 16:13(NIV):
Shila wrote: You accepted Jesus as a historical person. The case built by Shila has achieved its objective.
You are here asking for more specifics. I have raised your curiosity. The case built by Shila has achieved its objective.
And I am not religious in the slightest.
My thread was not started for only the religious. It was started to build a case for the HistoricalJesus.
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@Stephen
The objective of this thread was to build a case for the Historical Jesus and to get as many people to accept this simple historical fact.
I know that you clown!!!
The fewer members who dispute my case for the historical Jesus the more successful by case will be viewed.
And I have disputed the evidence that you put forward that was supposed to support your case for the existence of a biblical and historical Jesus. So simply stop repeating your flimsy evidence and either challenge my disputations or admit they are valid and accept them for what they are, and we can all move on.Simply repeating and presenting the same argument that I have already challenged won't get us anywhere.And I have disputed the evidence that you put forward that was supposed to support your case for the existence of a biblical and historical Jesus. So simply stop repeating your flimsy evidence and either challenge my disputations or admit they are valid and accept them for what they are, and we can all move on.
You have accepted the historical Jesus.
Read your post,
Stephen wrote: “And I accept there was such a man that lived in 1st century Palestine - minus the miracles. “
Simply repeating and presenting the same argument that I have already challenged won't get us anywhere.
You even affirm Josephus researched the temple scrolls to search for the historical Jesus.
So using Josephus as one of my evidence for the case of the Historical Jesus was well founded.
Josephus was a high-ranking warrior priest; of some royal decent, so I am sure he understood the "theology" of the day much better than either you or me. And if you have read all the works of Josephus, you will know that it was he that got his hands on the collection of the sacred temple scrolls after the fall of the city.Have you actually read the works of Josephus? Because I have.
You have contributed 198 threads. But not a single case for the Historical Jesus. Well you have one now!!
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@rosends
--> @ShilaSo you are disputing the spelling of Yeshua, Yehoshua, Jesus. But you are not disputing the person is a historical person behind the name/names.I am not commenting at all about the historical existence of anyone, nor am I disputing the spelling of anything -- just the claims made in your statement.
My claims are simply the case for the historical Jesus.
You must be pleased the name Jesus further separates the man from his Jewish roots more than yehoshua would.
Must I be? Because I don't really care.
Another uncaring Jew. It’s 2000 years since Jesus was crucified. Jesus’s crucifixion was demanded by the Jews of his time. Yet to continue to harbour the same strong Jewish resentment whenever Yehoshua is mentioned.
I did, notice, though, that you couldn't counter the statements I made so you are changing course. Did that website not have anything for you to copy and paste in response?
Your post was addressed.
So you are disputing the spelling of Yeshua, Yehoshua, Jesus. But you are not disputing the person is a historical person behind the name/names.
Just a side note, the following statement was made:"Jesus' name in Hebrew was “Yeshua” which translates to English as Joshua"that statement is wrong on at least 3 different levels.The biblical nickname Yay-shOO-ah is a shortened form of Yehoshua. That name, Yehoshua, is generally rendered into English as Joshua.So the name "Jesus" would not have been written in Hebrew as "Yeshua" because it was not a formal name, just a nickname. The sound of the Hebrew nickname is the same as for the word Y'shu'ah, which means "being saved" and it figures that someone would conflate them over time and through the lens/agenda of theology.
We read “Jesus” in our English Bibles, but what is Jesus’ name in Hebrew?
Jesus’ name in Hebrew is Yehoshua (Yeh-HO-shoo-ah), which, over time, became contracted to the shorter Yeshua (Yeh-SHOO-ah). Yehoshua, and therefore Yeshua as well, means “the Lord is salvation.”
In the Greek New Covenant, the word used for Jesus is Iesous (ee-ay-SOOS). Iesous is not a translation of Jesus’ name in Hebrew, but rather it is a transliteration.
A translation takes the meaning of a word in one language and assigns it the equivalent word with the same meaning in a different language. For instance, translated into Spanish, the English word “red” is “roja.”
A transliteration takes the letters of a word from one language and finds like-sounding letters of the second language to create a new word in that language. For example, the English word “baptize” is a transliteration of the Greek word baptizo (bap-TID-zo), meaning to immerse.
In the late 4th century, Jerome translated the Bible into Latin, a manuscript known as the Vulgate. In it, the Greek Iesous became the Latin Iesus. The English Bible eventually changed the Y sound of the Latin I to the letter J, which we now have in Jesus.
So, from Yehoshua/Yeshua – Jesus’ name in Hebrew – we get the Greek transliteration Iesous, which was transliterated into Latin as Iesus and later became the English name, Jesus.
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@Public-Choice
--> @Shila @StephenAnd all this time I thought you weren't actually Catholic.
I was accused of being a bot. But all this time you thought I was actually Catholic. I guess the mods had to make a choice. They banned the bot.
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@Stephen
The objective of this thread was to build a case for the Historical Jesus and to get as many people to accept this simple historical fact.
And I accept there was such a man that lived in 1st century Palestine - minus the miracles. But I cannot prove it on the bases of there is so little evidence. It's called being honest with myself.You on the other hand have offered nothing more than extremely flimsy so-called "evidence".
You were not asked to prove anything.
So what is the whole point of your thread if not to prove an "historical biblical Jesus" existed?
Shila has already built a case for the historical Jesus. You were not asked to prove anything.
The evidence was a collection of accounts written by those who lived during Jesus’s time and followed him.
But there is absolutely no evidence that any of them were alive at the time as the Christ. We only have stories passed down to us that have gone through many translations.
There were also accounts by historians who reported these events.
What events? And what historians? The same historians that didn't live at the time of Christ in 1st century Palestine.
We are talking about the Historical Jesus. Historian Flavius Josephus wrote about Jesus and the events surrounding his life.
All you had to do was accept the case for the Historical Jesus built by Shila in this thread which you did.
But we have to face facts at the same time. And I do not accept the New Testament as it has been passed down to us. AND I don't accept your ( or as you put it, shila's ) case as "evidence" enough for the existence of a biblical Jesus either.
We are discussing the case for the Historical Jesu.
The gospels are another source of evidence for the historical Jesus.
The case for the Historical Jesus was built by Shila in this thread
Why are you speaking in the second person? Am I conversing with someone other than shila herself?
You are talking to the author of. The case for the Historical Jesus.
You said: “And I accept there was such a man that lived in 1st century Palestine.”
I do. But you omitted from my quote "minus the miracles". Here> #15 So please, if you are going to use a quote of mine, use the whole quote.
That is good enough for now. We can deal with other specifics later.
I don't agree. These flaws have to be ironed out as the conversation moves forward.You should be prepared to be challenged on your comments, theories, ideas and most of all your "evidence".If it is of any consolation to you, I don't believe that you will find many here that do not dispute the possibility that the biblical Jesus existed. So, the quicker we do get to the specifics the better for your thread and the conversation. imo
The objective of this thread was to build a case for the Historical Jesus and to get as many people to accept this simple historical fact.
The fewer members who dispute my case for the historical Jesus the more successful by case will be viewed.
More specifics on other aspects of Jesus which are of interest mostly to Christians will be revealed as the thread gains momentum.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Wow, if you’re not President of the United States (Trump) lying can cost you a lot of money.
If the judge knows you don’t have money the fines could be lower. Why Trump gets away is simply because he claims a bankruptcy every time.
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@TWS1405
Finally the proper and just outcome of an officer falsely charged for killing a so-called “unarmed” arrestee who was resisting arrest and armed with the officer’s own taser.But as usual and like clockwork, some within the black community are calling for protests (which we all know will only result in more rioting and violence directed at law enforcement) in the wake of the “not guilty” verdict.Some commentary on various social media platforms include statements like the judicial system is “fixed.” That simply couldn’t be any further from the truth. A random selection of community members were selected to serve on the jury of no personal relations to the defendant. They heard the evidence and agreed the state failed to meet its burden of proof. Thus, the not guilty verdict.Claiming the deceased had a mental disorder isn’t a get out of jail free card. And neither is having several so-called run-ins with the accused either. They lived in the same apartment complex where she assaulted the property manager, which is what the warrant was for. The officer knew her and attempted to serve the warrant. But many in the black community feel entitled to be combative with police, resist arrest and attempt to take their tools off their utility belt and use them against the officer as she did in this case.Pamela Turner reaped what she sowed. Her fault. Not the officer’s just trying to do his job. Like all officers who just try to do their job. It’s the citizenry with an attitude that’s the tried and true problem in these all too familiar scenarios that place the officer in a position to defend their life and potentially the lives of others.What are you thoughts on this case?
If he knew she was grabbing for his taser and he had a gun. There would be no need to kill her. Another poorly trained police officer.
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@Greyparrot
An Asian person would comprehend the comment. A chat bot would not. But thanks for yet another non-sequitur.
A pardon would stop Alex Jones from committing more serious crimes against the Sandy Hook families.
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@Lemming
--> @bibliobibulimaniacDoes it matter if,Fellow in the South lynched someone because he hated Blacks, and thought he was decreasing their number in his land as good,orFellow in the South lynched someone because everyone else in the mob was doing it?Seems more likely than not,That the instigator was hateful, than noncaring,Shouldn't the leader who led and incited, ordered and planned be 'most responsible?Not that the go alongs were 'good.
You are rehashing the confusion the South was going through regarding the proper treatment of blacks. It took a civil war to resolve it.
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-> @TarikYou can agree with something without it being your word.K_Michael: If the Bible isn't the word of God, then what indication do you have that He agrees with it?
Are you seeking Tarik’s help to guide you through your Bible study?
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@Stephen
1. What evidence do we have that Jesus was in fact a Historical person?
The four canonical gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are the main sources for the biography of Jesus' life, the teachings and actions attributed to him.
None of which are eyewitness accounts. Although I have no actual reason to deny a man, believing himself to be rightful heir to the throne of Jerusalem existed.
The Gospel authors recorded the accounts of eyewitnesses who followed Jesus everywhere in their Gospels and even referenced these eyewitnesses in their titles. Eg. Gospel of Matthew according to Matthew.
Ok I can see this going circular, so, show us all the evidence.
You accepted Jesus as a historical person. The case built by Shilahas achieved its objective.
The first non-Christian writer to talk about Jesus was the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (born Yosef ben Matityahu),who lived around AD 47-100.
This will be the very much debated The Testimonium Flavianum, which other scholars believed was added by the Christian apologist Eusebius. Indeed, many modern scholars reject it altogether. And further, Josephus doesn't refer to him as a god.And as it is you that mentions historian Flavius Josephus, he relates to us a very interesting story that causes me to doubt the whole of the crucifixion story and its timing in particular. It may sound very familiar to many readers of the New Testament:And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands, while the third recovered...'The Life' of Flavius Josephus.Two died where one recovered! An interesting coincidence when we read the account of and Joseph of Arimathea from the gospels:“And after this Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus”. John 19:38-42.KJVThe similarities cannot be denied. Isn’t Josephus’ crucifixion story identical to what happened in the case of Jesus’ crucifixion where we are told that there was only one survivor of three and that survivor’s body was asked for by a man we know as a “secret” disciple of Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea?Is it at all possible that historian Flavius Josephus and Joseph of Arimathea are one and the same person regardless of what we are supposed to know of these apparently two different people?? I suggest that you study and research the origins of the names of both historian Flavius Josephus' and Joseph of Arimathea, you may be surprised what you discover.
We are talking about the Historical Jesus. Historian Flavius Josephus wrote about Jesus and the events surrounding his life.
No, what Josephus appears to say is extremely very little concerning the biblical Jesus which amounts to just a handful of questionable lines, and these are rejected by many scholars. I am sure Josephus - a priest himself- would have afforded the son of god more than a handful of lines, don't you?Please read my replies to your comments. It will save me having to continuously repeat myself.
Being a Historian, Flavius Josephus wrote about Jesus and the events surrounding his life.
This is why he remained objective in his record.
Remember Flavius Josephus was an Historian and not a theologian.
Josephus was a high-ranking warrior priest; of some royal decent, so I am sure he understood the "theology" of the day much better than either you or me. And if you have read all the works of Josephus, you will know that it was he that got his hands on the collection of the sacred temple scrolls after the fall of the city.Have you actually read the works of Josephus? Because I have.
Flavius Josephus is recognized for his historical records and not for his theology.
Were the 12 disciples who followed Jesus historical as well?
All cult leaders of the time recruited followers and an inner circle.But I have always found this particular recruitment story more than suspicious. Have you actually read the sequence of events. Well no you haven't because there is no sequence. We are simply asked to believe this in itself was a miracle of sorts. Tell me would you just drop everything leaving your home, employment or business, wife and children simply because a complete stranger, that you know nothing at all about, simply walked up to you and said " follow me" without a by you leave? It makes no sense at all on the face of it does it? But we are asked to suspend simple common sense and believe this is exactly what happened.
Did Paul and Peter start the church in Rome?
Irrelevant, it neither addresses my point and neither does it prove yours.
We have the evidence from Josephus who tells us about the martyrdom of James, the brother of Jesus, who was the leader of the Jerusalem church. Josephus also relates the execution of the apostle James. We also have the evidence of the early church writers. The first important church historian, Eusebius, wrote in the early fourth century.
Ah yes, Eusebius again, putting words into the mouth of someone that lived hundreds of years before himself.
We are talking about history which is a study of past events.
Stop being so patronising. And we don't even know who wrote these unreliable ambiguous half stories that make up the scripture. Many theological scholars agree that they are the work of "unknown authors".
Did Jesus claim he was God?
No. In fact it appears while everyone around him was speculating who he might be, Jesus seems at pains to avoid the subject and repeatedly refers to himself as"the son of man" i.e very human. He didn't even say that he was the son of god, although, IF he was the rightful heir to the throne of David then he would have also inherited the title -son of god- as other Hebrew kings did before him.
The thread was to first establish the fact Jesus was a historical person , that he existed and left am impression behind.
I know why you created the thread. And it was YOU that brought the question of if or not Jesus made the claim that he was god.And let's be perfectly honest, with what you have offered in the way of proof thus far concerning a HISTORICAL Jesus amount to nothing.
Today 2 billion Christians believe Jesus is God. All the modern science and research has not diminished the Christian position.
And billions of Muslims believe Jesus was only a prophet and not a god or even a son of god. Appealing to numbers is not evidence.
[Jesus said:] “I and the Father are one.”
This more than likely means that he and his god are in agreement. Jesus understood the scriptures by all accounts and hadn't come to change them, if the bible is to be believed.If this is not the case then it is a baffling statement that Jesus made here. Because he also says many things that contradict his own statement. Such as here>“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only. “ (Matthew 24:36) , clearly showing the two to be separate entities and clearly talking about what he knows and what only his god knows.
Jesus did not want his disciples to get ahead of themselves and for good reasons. More was to come before that dreadful day. We saw the destruction of the Holy Temple and city Jerusalem in 70AD.
It was also time to spread his teachings to the world and not just the Jews to save the Gentiles.
This hasn't explained this particular clear contradiction of which there are others. . If Jesus didn't want " his disciples to get ahead of themselves", wouldn't it have been better to stop offering to them ambiguous statements and to keep things on a need-to-know basis? So your reasoning behind this particular contradiction makes no sense whatsoever.Please do not repeat yourself unless it is necessary. Is all this does is stifle the conversation.
Jesus wanted his disciples to show faith and let the Holy Spirit guide them after he was gone.
John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
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@Stephen
-> @ShilaThe objective of this thread was to build a case for the Historical Jesus and to get as many people to accept this simple historical fact.And I accept there was such a man that lived in 1st century Palestine - minus the miracles. But I cannot prove it on the bases of there is so little evidence. It's called being honest with myself.You on the other hand have offered nothing more than extremely flimsy so-called "evidence".
You were not asked to prove anything. The evidence was a collection of accounts written by those who lived during Jesus’s time and followed him. There were also accounts by historians who reported these events.
All you had to do was accept the case for the Historical Jesus built by Shila in this thread which you did.
You said: “And I accept there was such a man that lived in 1st century Palestine.”
That is good enough for now. We can deal with other specifics later
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@rosends
Just a side note, the following statement was made:"Jesus' name in Hebrew was “Yeshua” which translates to English as Joshua"that statement is wrong on at least 3 different levels.The biblical nickname Yay-shOO-ah is a shortened form of Yehoshua. That name, Yehoshua, is generally rendered into English as Joshua.So the name "Jesus" would not have been written in Hebrew as "Yeshua" because it was not a formal name, just a nickname. The sound of the Hebrew nickname is the same as for the word Y'shu'ah, which means "being saved" and it figures that someone would conflate them over time and through the lens/agenda of theology.
So you are disputing the spelling of Yeshua, Yehoshua, Jesus. But you are not disputing the person is a historical person behind the name/names.
You must be pleased the name Jesus further separates the man from his Jewish roots more than yehoshua would.
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@Greyparrot
--> @ShilaWould you really have been happy if the 1st pardon ever for a civil infraction happened?Mashing X for doubt.
With a billion dollar fine a pardon is justified.
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@bibliobibulimaniac
--> @ShilaThank you so very much for being nothing but annoying in every forum I see your name.If you have nothing useful to contribute to this conversation, then why bother to post.
Can you decipher your title. bibliobibulimaniac?
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@sadolite
--> @Intelligence_06No sense of humor huh, that's OK, You don't have to look at them. Its a free country.
Busted again. Stick to the script, you are still being evaluated.
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@Intelligence_06
I don’t know if I have stated it here, but if I haven’t, now I have.The concept of sandwich should be interpreted abstractly. It should refer to anything in which one edible ingredient encases at least 180 degrees radially another edible ingredient. In this case, a hot dog, a tortilla taco, they all count as sandwiches. This is the expanded definition. Pasting PB&J on one slice of bread at one side also counts, as some sandwiches are topographically exactly the same. In fact, that is what a hot dog is, only with a much shallower trough and a substitute for a hot dog, albeit extremely different in taste. This also enables pizzas and pies to be sandwiches but if a hot dog is one, they are.But if you consider pizzas and hot dogs non-sandwiches, we can define x as a continuous variable(but in intervals) where the encased(not the encasing) edible ingredient is visible from the outside from certain angles, in which if x is in 2 intervals and both of those intervals are less than a given value, it is indeed a sandwich. This model can rule out absurd combinations such as covering a hot dog with green sauce, if we add a time variable t: where for a given continuous interval of t, X satisfy criteria that makes f(x, t) a sandwich. What this means is that if a sandwich cannot hold itself together stabily for a long time, it is not one. Covering a hot dog with green sauce does not work as the green liquid does spill. On the other hand, a ham within 2 slices of bread remains structurally the same even if any part of the combination goes rotten.
We were expecting some random though from you. Instead you decided to dissect a sandwich. Then went into other absurd combinations. Just order a Mac burger!
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@Lunatic
--> @ILikePie5I'm just hoping I can keep up this time lmao
With your long deserved rest you should do better.
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@Greyparrot
The actual "big lie" that people are waking up to is the lie that the government actually fulfills their end of the social contract to protect American Citizens. Increasingly, from both the neolibs and the neocons, it is apparent that the government has abused the authoritative power given to them from the people with the social contract to promote global interests over American citizen interests. See Ukraine for exhibit A; illegal immigration for Exhibit B and the wholesale destruction of the American economy for corporate pharmaceutical and green energy interests for Exhibit C.
After America withdrew from Afghanistan and Iraq they have very little global influence left as a superpower. They withdrew in disgrace from every country they invaded.
Now the leaders are turning on the American people. America needs wars to fund their vast military complex and having exited from the Middle East and Asia they need to create other distractions or maybe even another civil war.
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@Elliott
--> @ShilaJesus' name in Hebrew was “Yeshua” which translates to English as Joshua.Yes, you are right, I used the English translation.
I was right about the translation too!
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