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@Tradesecret
--> @ShilaHere you are admitting you are not particularly interested in pursuing a conversation which has gone down so many rabbits holes. But you make no attempt to address your depravity and gender dysphoria.As I said rabbit holes.
Now you want to divert our attention to rabbit holes. Can’t your m8bd stay out of the gutter Reverend?
You also appear very judgemental despite links and evidence that confirm your depravity and gender dysphoria.No judgmental bones in my body.
Is that your proof you are soft on depravity and your gender dysphoria?
Everyone appears to you like they don't have anything better to do. But you are the only one obsessed with your depravity and gender dysphoria.There are always people wanting to jump in and have a discussion, nevertheless, it is you and Stephen who are being the model litigants. Not.
Why are you against the very people who are trying to reign you in Reverend?
Let us help you Reverend so you can continue your mission to help others discover the historical and biblical Jesus,What size is that paper bag again?
It is just big enough to cover your head Reverend. You can take it off during your depraved excursions.
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@Tarik
how do you know "there is a standard"Based off of subsets of His standard I do know, like what Shila alluded to in post #840
The standard alluded to in post#840
John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
oh, good
now we can just throw all the haters in prison
How can there be haters if we all love one another. Even the haters will be loved.
This must all be very foreign to you. But that is what John 13:34 says.
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@Tradesecret
The oldest manuscripts of the works of Josephus in their original language of Greek date to the tenth and eleventh centuries. Portions of the works are also quoted in earlier manuscripts by other authors, particularly Eusebius (fourth century). There are also versions in other languages, notably a Latin translation made about the fifth century. These are all codexes, bound books, not scrolls.https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/16970/are-there-any-extant-original-first-century-manuscripts-of-any-of-josephus-workGiven that the oldest record of any alleged work of Josephus is not found until the 4th century and then only in portion - we obviously have no eyewitness accounts that he is a real historical figure. He's probably a legend someone dreamed up.Since he apparently is the main source for many ancient legends we can probably dismiss most of his work as made up.Perhaps it was just one of many people in the 4th century who wanted to use a famous legend's name to give some credibility to their work. We know many did this sort of thing.What do you reckon and what evidence would you give to refute the fact that he is just a myth?
Who is Flavius Josephus and why is he important?
Flavius Josephus, original name Joseph Ben Matthias, (born ad 37/38, Jerusalem—died ad 100, Rome), Jewish priest, scholar, and historian who wrote valuable works on the Jewish revolt of 66–70 and on earlier Jewish history.
Jospehus’ Description of Jesus
3. (63) Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works-a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; (64) and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3
From The Works of Josephus,
translated by William Whiston
Hendrickson Publishers, 1987
Josephus saw the destruction of Jerusalem.
Jewish priest, scholar, and historian who wrote valuable works on the Jewish revolt of 66–70 and on earlier Jewish history. He was ideally suited to corroborate the historical Jesus and his difficult relationship with the Priesthood. Josephus could also connect the warning of Jesus to its fulfillment in the Jewish revolt of 66–70.
We can also understand why he said so little about Jesus. Being a Jewish priest he tried to avoid any blame for ignoring the historical Jesus which eventually resulted in the demise of the Jewish people.
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@zedvictor4
--> @AveryAnd I differentiate between base instinct and acquired behaviour.And sexual attraction at base level is a separate issue to physical attraction at a socio-conceptual levelThe stag fucks every doe irrespective of looks, and without the need for overthink.And indiscriminate sex is more relative to the human condition than it is to most other species.Indiscriminate sex is the outcome of overthink rather than the outcome of base physiology.That is to say that humans have developed the practice of copulating when it not necessary to do so.Recreational sex as it were.
You must have spent a lot of time comparing your sex impulses to that of animals. The only way you could have done that study was to engage in sex with them to record the differences. You called that recreational sex. Others would beg to differ.
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@zedvictor4
--> @ShilaSlavery might or not be better for the slave.
Do you know how many millions are desperate to leave their country to come to America? They are taking all kinds of risks to make the journey. Many are dying in route. Back then slave routes were well established. All one had to do was show up at the slave trade centre and they would be booked on a cruise ship to their destination.
That would depend upon the slave owner.Do you think that today, slavery is better for the young girl who is forced into prostitution by Eastern European thugs.
East Europeans thugs are no worse than American thugs. Both countries have a big demand for you ptostitutes.
Not all slaves were black.
You had to be specific when ordering your slave. Specify your choice of colour.
And not all slaves were/are put to work on sunny sugar plantations by jolly slave owners.
Unfortunately there was no refund guaranteed to the slaves if they ended up on a not so sunny sugar plantations. The South has cotton plantations as well.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaShowing them love no matter where they are will make prisons less isolating or stigmatizing.i agree
The same can be applied to atheists and humanism so they are less contradictory.
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@3RU7AL
But the persons existence is no longer in doubt.
your sources can still be in doubtdo you think the epic of gilgamesh is true because it is based on a historical king ?or the legends of king arthur, which are also apparently based on a historical figure ?
Most historians generally agree that Gilgamesh was a historical king of the Sumerian city-state of Uruk, who probably ruled sometime during the early part of the Early Dynastic Period ( c. 2900 – 2350 BC).
But was King Arthur actually a real person, or simply a hero of Celtic mythology? Though debate has gone on for centuries, historians have been unable to confirm that Arthur really existed.
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@Tradesecret
--> @ShilaMaybe if you followed the topic in each thread instead of making it all about your depravity and gender dysphoria you might get your views across as a Reverend and not what you are perceived as to the members.I'm not particularly interested in pursuing a conversation which has gone down so many rabbits holes by those involved - and without any particular parameters in which to make a point. To me it looks primarily like you and Stephen are measuring each other up. the rest of those involved are along for the ride and obviously don't have anything better to do.
Here you are admitting you are not particularly interested in pursuing a conversation which has gone down so many rabbits holes. But you make no attempt to address your depravity and gender dysphoria.
You also appear very judgemental despite links and evidence that confirm your depravity and gender dysphoria.
Everyone appears to you like they don't have anything better to do. But you are the only one obsessed with your depravity and gender dysphoria.
Let us help you Reverend so you can continue your mission to help others discover the historical and biblical Jesus,
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@3RU7AL
the point here iseven if the person's existence is verifiedthat doesn't somehow make all their stories automatically true
If the persons existence is verified then that person becomes a historical fact.
Stories about the person can be verified through eyewitness accounts. But the persons existence is no longer in doubt.
even if the jesus stories are based on a real personthat doesn't make any of the "eyewitness accounts" magically true
The case then shifts to why and what they are saying about a real person and how does it check out or corroborated.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaHow can there be haters if we all love one another. Even the haters will be loved.ok, are you suggesting we let everyone out of prison ?or are you suggesting we construct lovely prisons ?
Showing them love no matter where they are will make prisons less isolating or stigmatizing.
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@TWS1405
Wow. Talk about putting a new image next to the term "TDS troll" in the dictionary.
Talking about poor police training.
It appears the capitol police failed to secure the Congress building.
There was a failure of intelligence.
The FBI could not be trusted.
The Secret services deleted all records related to the Jan 6 riots.
You need to put a new image on law enforcement in America.
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@3RU7AL
But this thread is only about the historical Jesus. Look for other threads specific to your historical champion.
the point here iseven if the person's existence is verifiedthat doesn't somehow make all their stories automatically true
If the persons existence is verified then that person becomes a historical fact.
Stories about the person can be verified through eyewitness accounts. But the persons existence is no longer in doubt.
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@3RU7AL
John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
oh, goodnow we can just throw all the haters in prison
How can there be haters if we all love one another. Even the haters will be loved.
This must all be very foreign to you. But that is what John 13:34 says.
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--> @Double_RHitler did not personally order all the cancelling eeach other, in the end the Nazi people, not just staff, began embracing iy due to the influence it yad and they were peer pressured to feel disgust at any talk of free expression and harmony with Jews, LGBTQ and the disabled etc.One person alone cannot control a whole population, there are ripples and waves of influence. Kim Jong-Un is unironically eorshipped in North Korea and rebels are seen as devilish. The more you cancel your opposition, the more that the average citizen will irrationally assume they have no side to the story worth listening to nor that they have reformed later.
The people of North Korea are more united behind their leader Kim Jong-Un than Americans are with their leader Biden.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaFine Art Isn’t About Art. It’s About Evading Taxes.
Evading taxes is an art.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaEveryone needs a chance to say where they stand with the Historical Jesus.everyone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical joseph smitheveryone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical confuciuseveryone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical prophet muhammadeveryone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical abrahameveryone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical jemima wilkinson
But this thread is only about the historical Jesus. Look for other threads specific to your historical champion.
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@3RU7AL
--> @Tarikso, FUNCTIONALLY each person needs to figure out FOR THEMSELVES what they believe is "right" and what is "wrong" ?Yes, if what they believe aligns with God.how do we know what "god" wants ?
John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
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@zedvictor4
--> @zedvictor4
--> @YassineYep, the baying masses have always loved a good neck snapping
They must have toned it down. It used to be throat slitting. Turkey style.
--> @ShilaWell, the head is centre of operations.
But that is no way to convert a turkey.
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@Sidewalker
I was going to present the Biblical Jesus following my case for the Historical Jesus.
Instead I would like to start with what Sidewalker posted because he makes all the relevant points that serves as an introduction to the Biblical Jesus.
Sidewalker posted:
He came out of relative obscurity, but the way he lived and died profoundly changed the world.
Ancient history is necessarily a record of those who witnessed historical events, and almost everything we know about Jesus comes from the Gospels, which were put into their current form slowly, over a period of about three hundred years, a history that was shaped by the Christian experience. The historical Jesus had a movement following after him, after his death this movement grew exponentially and it was that movement that produced the Gospels. The Gospels are a history of the manner in which Jesus was experienced, both during his life, and after His death, so there are two voices speaking to us from the past, that of Jesus, and that of His followers. The Gospels are not simply about what happened to Jesus, they are also about what happened to Jesus’ followers, who experienced His continuing presence as a living reality long after his death. The historical Jesus didn’t found the Christian church by his ministry, the church came into being after His death, it is the resurrection that is the starting point of Christian religion.
Consequently, you cannot look to the historical for Jesus answers about what followed his death, Jesus was a Jew, he had no opinion about Christianity because Christianity did not exist during his lifetime. Consequently, understanding the social and political context of the historical Jesus in conjunction with an honest reading of the Gospels does appear to challenge many of the cherished and comforting beliefs held by Christians today.
An honest reading of what he actually said and did indicates that he was a Jewish rabbi who walked in the tradition of the prophets, was a teacher, a healer and wonderworker, a man that challenged prevailing systems of purity while associating with the marginal elements of society. There is no historical evidence that he ever intended to establish a new set of religious dogmas or found a new religion. The Jesus of the New Testament is not always omnipotent, or omniscient, and He does not appear to think of himself as divine, He rarely spoke of himself and His message was not about believing in Him.
His teaching "astonished" those who heard him. The things he did and said caused his contemporaries to think of him in completely new dimensions. There was something in this life that caused those who knew it best to reach the conclusion that it was divine in nature. Historically speaking, there is a boatload of contention about whether or not he actually rose from the grave but no one can reasonably doubt that his spirit jumped dramatically to life after his death.
It is certainly not my intent to contend that what was implicit in His life and was made explicit through theological discourse four hundred years later is not an image of truth; It is not to say that He was not God and Savior. It is only to say that these divisive things do not matter to me and I do not believe they are more important than his message.
Jesus almost never spoke about the detached metaphysical constructs so many focus on; apparently those kinds of intellectual disputes just weren't important to him and I choose to believe this was because He understood how these matters could digress into divisive contrasts and disunity. His words, his actions, and his life had nothing whatsoever to do with divisiveness and disunity.
Many have rejected the life and teachings of this man primarily because of the disputes over dogma and because of the unlikely historical accuracy of many of the doctrines held by the various Christian churches today. To many, the prevalence of sometimes vehement disputation and boastful contrasts in His name directly conflict with their understanding of what the Man and His teachings represented: consequently many have understandably turned away, throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.
An argument can certainly be made that the historical vision that is emerging provides a great advantage for those who have turned away as well as for those of completely different faiths. By allowing those who cannot embrace his tremendous impact because of disputations regarding his human or divine status, this historical vision can allow many people to concentrate on what he actually said and did. Maybe the emerging historical vision of Christ could eliminate the petty pursuits and trifling quarrels and through fellowship with the internal life, cut across political and ecclesiastical boundaries by penetrating beneath the external surface of all of mankind’s divisive religious doctrines.
Seeing how the historical Jesus reacted to the violence, corruption, and political and religious oppression he faced may help us all to see how the "Christ force" might act in us today and with what passion and unambiguous focus we may challenge the rather similar circumstances we face. Paying attention not to disputes about his divine status but to what he actually said and did could allow us to get past our intellectual detachment and take his actions and words more seriously while applying them more practically and with greater urgency. His word and his actions indicate he was proselytizing unity through the power of love and concerted action for justice and compassion. Jesus was inviting us to seek the Kingdom within, a house with many mansions, because he directly experienced the glory of God and he believed that all humans had at their core the spark of divine consciousness. He sacrificed his life to ignite it in us and that is what made him our Savior.
What if all you had to do for everybody to agree that you were a Christian was to follow the teachings and life of Jesus Christ and live in harmony with the same universal laws that he lived in harmony with. What if Christianity had no problem with others believing that the central fact of His life was the complete realization of a conscious union of this man with the God of his understanding, and that it was his realization of his oneness with God that made Jesus the Christ? The Bible gives no indication that he ever claimed for himself anything that he did not claim for all mankind and He spoke of his remarkable achievements as the normal outcome of a state to which all of us could attain. By completely realizing this, first for himself, and then by pointing out the great laws which are the same for us as they were for him, he has given the whole world an ideal of life, an ideal we can attain to here and now, one that we could not have without him living and dying the way he did.
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@Stephen
--> @TradesecretEthan gets more mentions than the rest of you together -Yes,for all the wrong reasons. Public Moderation Log (debateart.com)
The link says Ethang was banned for sexual harassment.
Is the Reverend defending his actions?
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@Stephen
Stephen you are a pathological liar.
Nope . You offered him an invitation. The brother only mentioned him as part of a related post
My thread is open to all and everyone
And so it should be.Until they are politely asked to leave.
No one has been asked to leave on this thread. Everyone needs a chance to say where they stand with the Historical Jesus.
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@zedvictor4
-->@Shila#87.You asked the question.I responded.All current and relevant worth was contained within that exchange of data
You were not addressed in post #87.
Post#87
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@Stephen
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@Sidewalker
Someone as disturbingly radical as Christ
Stephen: Will you define for us -radical - in this context.
Shila: Those are after the fact responses. The Jews of his time found Jesus very unconventional. Jesus was a religious reformer who challenged the religious establishment.
What is even more convincing is the prophesies that foretold his coming.
All this builds the case for the Historical Jesus.
Try to stay connected zedvictor4
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@Tradesecret
--> @BrotherD.Thomas @Shila @StephenBrotherOh yes I remember that well.You showed me didn't you. Brother D Thomas - superior in all that he purports.And yet for whatever reason, I continue to return.One might think that whatever blows you feel you have given me were not sufficient enough to send me running for the hills.Of course, and indeed - EVERY TIME I return and respond is sadly for you - EVIDENCE of your failure.Wait, what. Did I say your failure? Hmmm - affirmative. that means yes if you didn't know.the number one fake on this site is Brother Thomas. He can't even fake his religiosity. Or his atheism.Me on the other hand - just do what I do and all the lies and dogmatic assertions that you make well - as I continue to be quoted so lovingly by your only friend in the world - is like "water of a duck's back".Oh that I can disappear and be quoted by all of my friends. It's amazing really. Yet, you know what? I don't recall too many people quoting or referring to Stephen or Brother or even Harikrish when they disappear. There are occasional exceptions to the rule. Even our friend - you know the permanently banned friend - Ethan gets more mentions than the rest of you together - when you are not around.Hence - it is clear who are the ones who are missed because of their substance. but hey, you keep on dragging me back here.
Maybe if you followed the topic in each thread instead of making it all about your depravity and gender dysphoria you might get your views across as a Reverend and not what you are perceived as to the members.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaHave you considered the alternatives to "objectivity" and "freewill" that makes us complacent slaves?you can't be a slave to any human if your trajectory begins with the origin of all things
What if the trajectory of origin of all things began with slavery.
Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”
Genesis 3:17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.
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@Vici
--> @Intelligence_06This can be done by repeating every part except slavery. Obviously you can put them here in a more humane ship, grant them rights immediately, let them understand English and let them vote. Sure society could grow faster this way. But no, go pick your cotton and be a nuisance to society, slavers said.sure that part might not have been necceasry, but still HOLISTICALLY slavery was better then it was worse right?
Most Arab Muslims would agree with you that slavery was better for the slaves and owner and not worse.
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Less than 1% of Americans are very rich. The majority of Americans belong to the second group. So it makes sense the group with the largest number of Americans get taxed.
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The Covid 19 virus had to originate in America. Even Trump confirmed they was a single case of Covid found in a person returning from China before Trump imposed a travel ban to and from China.
China’s lockdown shutout the virus within months of its discovery.
That eliminates China as the source of Covid. But America reported the highest number of cases and deaths from Covid. This could only have been possible if America was the source of Covid and was too late to discover Covid cases because it confused it with the annual common flu.
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@ebuc
I love this weapon of least destruction. Kudo's to chinese and Japanese for using intelligent mind over matter policing instead of USA butt forward into the future thinking.
Maybe America should outsource its policing to the Chinese. They are just better at it and have the necessary equipment to guarantee safety of police and citizens.
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaStephen you are a pathological liar.Nope . You offered him an invitation. The brother only mentioned him as part of a related post
My thread is open to all and everyone who wishes to participate in recognizing the Historical Jesus. I am aware there are special attributes and qualities that Jesus possessed that might be of special interest to Christians and other religious groups. But in time the discussion will widen to include those special interests.
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@zedvictor4
--> @ShilaI wouldn't say that testosterone is a problem.Just a naturally occurring chemical that we all produce.My quip was more of a reference to the inevitability of the human condition and its uncivilising consequences.
So you find the human condition and it’s uncivilized consequences very unsettling?
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaYou and BrotherD have more exchanges with Tradesecret than Shila.Not on this thread. Your thread. You brought him into the thread as part of the subject matter and haven't shut up about him. thank the Lord rosends turned up.
Stephen you are a pathological liar.
Reverend Tradesecret has 2 posts in this thread and both are addressed to BrotherD.Thomas.
Don’t drag Shila into your threesome.
But I cannot dismiss the Reverend as I am sure he will comment favourably on Jesus’s ascension into modernity.It may be better to start a separate thread on the matter. You have managed to fracture this one to the point of being unreadable.
The thread has to deal with members who were never presented logical or evidentiary material on religion and developed uncivil tactics to deal with their boredom. But that is going to change as Jesus once again dominates the active discussion topics.
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@Stephen
--> @rosendsmaybe you could start by,,,,and then ....Then.......you can get back onto your favourite subject... Tradsecret, that seems to have dominated a sizable chunk of your thread concerning The Case ForThe Historical Jesus.
You and BrotherD have more exchanges with Tradesecret than Shila. But I cannot dismiss the Reverend as I am sure he will comment favourably on Jesus’s ascension into modernity.
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@rosends
--> @ShilaGreat, maybe you could start by explaining the phrase "ascension into modernity" as it, as a phrase, does not lend itself to any clear meaning, and then you can shift the entire thread into a discussion of faith and religion and not about any historical claims. Then you can point out that there are people today who believe in Jesus' divinity and those who don't, and you can draw whatever conclusions you want about those people (though it, too, will have nothing to do with the claim of divinity). Have fun with that. Shmini Atzeret is starting in a few minutes so I am signing off, still without having commented on the stated focus of the thread, intentionally.
The Bible concludes with Jesus having ascended into Heaven. But the fact that we still see Jesus as very relevant and still the central figure in Churches/Christianity demands we rephrase his ascendency, and to remain true to the case for the Historical Jesus we also have to acknowledge his ascension into modernity.
Once the case for the historical Jesus is settled I intend to deal with his ascension into modernity.
Your input is always appreciated.
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@Public-Choice
I'm going to say this once:Tulsi Gabbard is a honeypot. She is like Reagan in the 80s. A conservative who was planted there so the Intelligence Community could do whatever they wanted. Ronald Reagan was an FBI informant. He was deeply connected to the intelligence community for many years before becoming President.When Tulsi gave her speech on the threats to freedom from Democrats it reminded me of Reagan's "A Time For Choosing."That is what is going on here. She's going to be the President either following Trump's 2028 exit or after the Democrat candidate who wins in 2028.
Wow! I haven’t read such good reviews on her performance nor that America is ready for a coloured Woman President. Even VP Kamala Harris is performing poorly in the polls.
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@rosends
--> @ShilaThis was done to give a background of the people the Jews that Jesus had to convince before the gentiles accepted him as God.This explains the transitioning of Jesus from the historical Jesus to becoming a God. It also help us understand why he was portrayed differently in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and received differently in the New Testament culminating in his crucifixion, resurrection and finally the celebrated God in Christianity.Some would call my approach as different strokes for different folks. But in fact it is a case for the Historical Jesus and his ascension into modernity.So you are giving background about the claimed divinity when the thread is explicitly about the historical Jesus. Got it.
Sorry you missed my addendum.
Some would call my approach as different strokes for different folks. But in fact it is a case for the Historical Jesus and his ascension into modernity.
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@rosends
--> @ShilaBut at some point in time it has to occur to them they are up against 2 billion Christians who side with Jesus. And there are less than 14 million Jews who still reject Jesus.Stealing Palestinian lands isn’t improving Jewish security in a world dominated by Christians and Muslims, Rabbi Rosends.How do these statements advance your thread in the direction you chose when you started it? You stated in post 57 "The thread is about the case for the Historical Jesus." In post 68 you wrote, "This thread is about the case for the Historical Jesus." Post 10 has "The objective of this thread was to build a case for the Historical Jesus and to get as many people to accept this simple historical fact." You said something similar in post 24.Do those statements contribute to that?
This was done to give a background of the people the Jews that Jesus had to convince before the gentiles accepted him as God.
This explains the transitioning of Jesus from the historical Jesus to becoming a God. It also help us understand why he was portrayed differently in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and received differently in the New Testament culminating in his crucifixion, resurrection and finally the celebrated God in Christianity.
Some would call my approach as different strokes for different folks. But in fact it is a case for the Historical Jesus and his ascension into modernity.
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Why were Africans preferred as slaves more than the people of India.
Indians are hardworking, accept their Karma and relatively passive people. Because of the high poverty rate in India millions works as domestic servants. Indians are also known to breed profusely. They would make a better alternative to blacks.
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@TWS1405
-->@ShilaNot to forget whites came up with the idea of colonization and slavery.You’re so ignorant of world history it’s pathetic.
Historians generally recognize three motives for European exploration and colonization in the New World: God, gold, and glory.
Religious motivations can be traced all the way back to the Crusades, the series of religious wars between the 11th and 15th centuries during which European Christians sought to claim Jerusalem as an exclusively Christian space.
Europeans also searched for optimal trade routes to lucrative Asian markets and hoped to gain global recognition for their country.
Western colonialism, a political-economic phenomenon whereby various European nations explored, conquered, settled, and exploited large areas of the world.
The age of modern colonialism began about 1500, following the European discoveries of a sea route around Africa’s southern coast (1488) and of America (1492). With these events sea power shifted from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic and to the emerging nation-states of Portugal, Spain, the Dutch Republic, France, and England. By discovery, conquest, and settlement, these nations expanded and colonized throughout the world, spreading European institutions and culture.
European expansion before 1763
Antecedents of European expansion
Medieval Europe was largely self-contained until the First Crusade (1096–99), which opened new political and commercial communications with the Muslim Near East. Although Christian crusading states founded in Palestine and Syria proved ephemeral, commercial relations continued, and the European end of this trade fell largely into the hands of Italian cities.
Early European trade with Asia
The Oriental land and sea routes terminated at ports in the Crimea, until 1461 at Trebizond (now Trabzon, Turkey), Constantinople (now Istanbul), Asiatic Tripoli (in modern Lebanon), Antioch (in modern Turkey), Beirut (in modern Lebanon), and Alexandria (Egypt), where Italian galleys exchanged European for Eastern products.
Competition between Mediterranean nations for control of Asiatic commerce gradually narrowed to a contest between Venice and Genoa, with the former winning when it severely defeated its rival city in 1380; thereafter, in partnership with Egypt, Venice principally dominated the Oriental trade coming via the Indian Ocean and Red Sea to Alexandria.
What is the connection between colonization and slavery?
Slavery aided the colonial masters in their bid to colonise Africa and in subsequent resource exploitation, which they institutionalised under their imperial governance. Using largely secondary material, this study finds that slavery and colonialism laid the foundation for postcolonial conflicts in Africa.
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@rosends
In the Greek New Covenant, the word used for Jesus is Iesous (ee-ay-SOOS). Iesous is not a translation of Jesus’ name in Hebrew, but rather it is a transliteration.
A translation takes the meaning of a word in one language and assigns it the equivalent word with the same meaning in a different language. For instance, translated into Spanish, the English word “red” is “roja.”
A transliteration takes the letters of a word from one language and finds like-sounding letters of the second language to create a new word in that language. For example, the English word “baptize” is a transliteration of the Greek word baptizo (bap-TID-zo), meaning to immerse.
In the late 4th century, Jerome translated the Bible into Latin, a manuscript known as the Vulgate. In it, the Greek Iesous became the Latin Iesus. The English Bible eventually changed the Y sound of the Latin I to the letter J, which we now have in Jesus.
So, from Yehoshua/Yeshua – Jesus’ name in Hebrew – we get the Greek transliteration Iesous, which was transliterated into Latin as Iesus and later became the English name, Jesus.
Great, so you found a webpage which addresses the problems you made and you copy/paste from it even though it disproves your claim. Finally, jewishvoice.org is useful for something.
I don’t have a problem with what Jews have to say about Jesus or their reasons for demanding he be crucified.
But at some point in time it has to occur to them they are up against 2 billion Christians who side with Jesus. And there are less than 14 million Jews who still reject Jesus.
Stealing Palestinian lands isn’t improving Jewish security in a world dominated by Christians and Muslims, Rabbi Rosends.
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@Stephen
Who are the "they"?
The Jews who shouted Hosanna.
You are absolutely shite at following a thread created by yourself, so I suppose it's asking a little too much of you to follow what is going on in the bible.
They are also the same Jews who shouted crucify him when Jesus did not meet their expectation.
How do you know that they were the same Jews? Did you miss the part where on Jesus and his entourage entering Jerusalem the people were asking who tf is this clown?No one in Jerusalem even knew who he was Matthew 21:10
The crowds that followed Jesus knew Jesus and answered.
Matthew 21:11 The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”
That is why his followers had to shout out and wave palm trees to attract attention to him. This alone was an affront to the hierarchy of the temple authorities. It is known in scripture as Jesus' "triumphant entry". Some triumph that was. It was only a matter of days after this "triumph" when he was nailed up, speared and pleading to his "father why tf have you forsaken me". Sound like a loss of faith to me, to be honest.Learn your bible.
They were saying in celebration .
Matthew 21:A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, while others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. 9 The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted,
“Hosannato the Son of David!”
“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”
“Hosanna in the highest heaven!”
There are two completely different uses for “hosanna." One use is pleading for help, while the other is just showing gratitude for what was done.
Passover was a day for celebration.
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@Stephen
You could be a bigger freak than Reverend Tradesecret.
Yes a different grounded freak. So I was right!!
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@TWS1405
"Discuss"I find her incredibly attractive, smart and she has my vote for POTUS 2024!!!
She is also an Indian from Samoa. Very impressive.
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@sadolite
--> @ShilaYou are so unbelievably tiresome and pointless. Your existence serves no purpose. I will be glad when the mods ban you.
What will change when you become Sado (M)Heavy?
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@Stephen
-> @ElliottThat is a good example of the case for the Historical Jesus which is based on truth and does not require faith. It offers Simple answers without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth."Thank you.Shila, you seem have misinterpretation down to a fine art.He does, doesn't he. I'm not sure if he actually knows he's doing it, or he does it on purpose
The only one who is uncertain about gender is you Stephen. Your profile says gender unknown. In fact everything about you in unknown. You could be a bigger freak than Reverend Tradesecret.
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@Stephen
You wrote: I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.
Yes I wrote that. And stand by it. I mean exactly what I wrote. I could write it slightly different if you like but I would still mean the same thing. Here you go. I believe that there was once a man that believed himself to be king of the Jews that other men shrouded in myth.
Is it possible they wanted Jesus to be the King of the Jews.
Who are the "they"?
The Jews who shouted Hosanna.
Matthew 21:9 The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Hosanna in the highest heaven!”
They are also the same Jews who shouted crucify him when Jesus did not meet their expectation.
Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”
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@BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a “MAN TO A WOMAN,” and then to “OTHER,” then went to her being 53 years old, then 12 years old, then changed to being 14 years old, Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding the Noah's Ark narrative, SHE SAYS THAT OFFSPRING THAT CURSE THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE KILLED, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Timothy 4:3, and 1 Timothy 2:12. She obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, she goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, will not debate me on the Trinity Doctrine or the Virgin Birth, has a myriad of EXCUSES not to answer your questions, and she is "AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT!"
If you believe all this is true about Reverend Tradesecret you should be sympathetic towards the poor transgender instead of attacking him/her/it in your final analysis.
One can hardly call you normal obsessing over perverts at your age and limited income and education.
Dear, seriously, you need a new writer to "try" and combat my superior Biblically knowledge over your kindergarten knowledge of same! Look at your weak and wanting refutations to me in your following links, where how weak can you get, as usual!Tradesecret, listen, we know that you are worried about the equally Bible stupid SHILA taking over your #1 Bible stupid and ignorant position that you have held within this forum for a long time, AND, that was the only recognition that you had in being in this forum to begin with! LOL! You and Shila should have a debate on a simple biblical topic to actually settle in who is more Bible stupid, you or Shila! Yes?
You are hinting at a threesome to mix it up. Proof you are equally a pervert.
It would give this forum such great laughter again at both of your expense, at least think about it, okay? Thanks! Stephen and I can hand out the "laughter crying towels" for the membership when you start your debate because just like before, you made us laugh so hard with your complete Biblical stupidity that was easily refuted! ( My personal favorite that I have on file was your outright laughable position regarding Noah's ark, remember dear? That had to be the best Bible comedy ever written, and worth a spot on Saturday Night Live in the USA! Priceless!)
You must be very sick to join a religion forum because it compares will to Saturday Night Live in the USA! Priceless!
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@Elliott
--> @ShilaJust applying your truths to my case of the Historical Jesus. I will mention you in the acknowledgment.To quote Pilate ~ “What is truth?”
You will soon find out the historical Jesus was innocent as I build the case for the Historical Jesus. Jesus was misunderstood.
John 18:38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Added 10.16.22 12:50PM--> @Shila @Tradesecret.Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,In response to your ungodly rhetoric in your lame ungodly post #138, I proffer the following biblical axioms at your expense AGAIN, understood Bible fool?1. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)
The scriptures Paul is referring to are in the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible)
Remember the Gospels and Paul’s writings are a biography of Jesus his life and teachings. Paul never met or knew Jesus in real life or he would have known Jesus himself quoted scriptures from 24 books in the Old Testament. Even Jesus found the scriptures inspirational and often quoted them.
2. “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5)
Yes Proverbs is scriptures from the Old Testament.
3. “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God.” (Luke 4:4)
Jesus always referred to God’s word which quoted from 24 books in the Old Testament.
Jesus even confirmed he only spoke what God has commanded him to say. Just as God commanded Moses and others to say in the Old Testament.
John 12:49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.
You are embarrassingly excused at this time because of you trying in vain to REWRITE the scriptures to your Satanic liking! What a total waste of time and money in having your alleged Bachelors Degree that your poor parents paid for in your behalf, where it has fallen upon its proverbial face by you being so Bible ignorant. Sad indeed. :(NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE STUPID WOMEN EQUAL TO MISS TRADESECRET AND MISS SHILA, WILL BE ...?
I paid for my own education by working part time in the financial institution. I also fundraiser for Christian Charities which is why I am so fluent in Christian Theology.
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaSo you still want to discuss the Reverend rather than your own topic."Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead. Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian. #33"I don't like the idea of me or my family being lumped in with "most" atheist that he has met.
Reverend Tradesecret was recalling his days as an atheist and the life he led before his conversion. One could read it as nostalgia.
Nope. He was well and truly found by God at this time. His trouble is that he forgot this at time of writing. According to him, he had been studying religion for over 40 years and had ALSO studied and passed his law degree and was a criminal lawyer and much more in between. His trouble is, is that he has told far too many lies upon lies about himself that he forgot time frame. Time frame and chronology are not his specialist subjects. But that is his baby, let him rock it.Irony doesn't even cover it. For all of his high education in many fields of religious studies Matthew 7:1-4 seems to have continuously escaped him..I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily.
You have helped me take Reverend Tradesecret’s depravity more seriously.
If his behaviour concerns you at all, then it is his compulsive lying that you should take more seriously. I am not interested in his depravity, or his compulsive lying and would rather not speak about it unless I am given good reason to. That's the trouble with compulsive liars, they say that many they cannot keep up with themselves and will trip themselves up very easily. He of all people should know all this, he's a criminal defence lawyer, too with clients.... isn't he?
Compulsive lying is proof he has not mastered the truth and has to lie to cover his deficiencies. They used to crucify people for blasphemy in the old days.
You wrote: I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.
Yes I wrote that. And stand by it. I mean exactly what I wrote. I could write it slightly different if you like but I would still mean the same thing. Here you goI believe that there was once a man that believed himself to be king of the Jews that other men shrouded in myth.
Is it possible they wanted Jesus to be the King of the Jews. But Jesus replied differently.
John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
I maintain Jesus was misunderstood. The thorough study of the Bible reveals that.
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@Elliott
-->--> @StephenNice thought, but is that truth?Simple answer without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth." Faith doesn’t require truth but it can be based on truth.
That is a good example of the case for the Historical Jesus which is based on truth and does not require faith. It offers Simple answers without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth."
Thank you.
Shila, you seem have misinterpretation down to a fine art.
Just applying your truths to my case of the Historical Jesus. I will mention you in the acknowledgment.
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