Shila

--> @Shila

Genesis 2:15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

You've argued that the Genesis story is literal, if that is the case, then please explain the literal physical existence of a "tree of knowledge"?

--> @Elliott

Did Jesus actually exist or is he a mythological figure.

 I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church

--> @Stephen

 I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.

I agree, that’s certainly possible. I personally think there is a real person behind the story but ignoring the miracles I wonder how much of the end result was distorted through oral tradition and the imagination of the gospel writers.

 

There is one thing that makes me think Jesus was a real person and that is his name. A lot of work in the creation of the New Testament involved the fulfilling of Old Testament messianic prophecies. This is one of them and I would think an important one.

 

Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”

 

This to me this suggests Jesus existed as a real person and was reasonably well known by the name Jesus, so they were not able to change it to Immanuel.

Did Jesus actually exist or is he a mythological figure. Outside of the gospels there is no contemporary evidence and even the gospels were written after the events portrayed and were probably derived from oral tradition.

 

The thing is, it doesn’t matter. Jesus is a god or a god incarnate, he is not totally human because he has powers that make him superhuman and like all gods he exits through belief and belief is all that is necessary for him to exist, and the actual human Jesus or Joshua to give him his real name is unnecessary.

 

Even if some ancient scrolls were discovered that proved Jesus and his life was simply a work of fiction, I don’t think that would influence Christian beliefs one iota.

--> @Shila

1. What evidence do we have that Jesus was in fact a Historical person?

The four canonical gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are the main sources for the biography of Jesus' life, the teachings and actions attributed to him.

None of which are eyewitness accounts. Although I have no actual reason to deny a man, believing himself to be rightful heir to the throne of Jerusalem existed.

The first non-Christian writer to talk about Jesus was the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (born Yosef ben Matityahu),who lived around AD 47-100.

 This will be the very much debated The Testimonium Flavianum, which other scholars believed was added by the Christian apologist Eusebius. Indeed many modern scholars reject it altogether. And further, Josephus doesn't refer to him as a god.

 And as it is you that mentions historian Flavius Josephus, he relates to us a very interesting story that causes me to doubt the whole of the crucifixion story and its timing in particular. It may sound very familiar to many readers of the New Testament:

 And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands, while the third recovered...'The Life' of Flavius Josephus.

 Two died where one recovered! An interesting coincidence when we read the account  of and Joseph of Arimathea from the gospels:

“And after this Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus”. John 19:38-42.KJV

The similarities cannot be denied. Isn’t Josephus’ crucifixion story identical to what happened in the case of Jesus’ crucifixion where we are told that there was only one survivor of three and that survivor’s body was asked for by a man we know as a “secret” disciple of Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea?

Is it at all possible that historian Flavius Josephus and Joseph of Arimathea are one and the same person regardless of what we are supposed to know of these apparently two different people?? I suggest that you study and research the origins of the names of both historian Flavius Josephus' and Joseph of Arimathea, you may be surprised what you discover.

 Were the 12 disciples who followed Jesus historical as well?

All cult leaders of the time recruited followers and an inner circle.

But I have always found this particular recruitment story  more than suspicious. Have you actually read the sequence of events. Well no you haven't because there is no sequence. We are simply asked to believe this in itself was a miracle of sorts. Tell me would you just drop everything leaving your home, employment or business, wife and children simply because a complete stranger, that you know nothing at all about, simply walked up to  you and said " follow me" without a by you leave? It makes no sense at all on the face of it does it? But we are asked to suspend simple common sense and believe this is exactly what happened.

We have the evidence from Josephus who tells us about the martyrdom of James, the brother of Jesus, who was the leader of the Jerusalem church. Josephus also relates the execution of the apostle James. We also have the evidence of the early church writers. The first important church historian, Eusebius, wrote in the early fourth century.

Ah yes, Eusebius again, putting words into the mouth of someone that lived hundreds of years before himself.

Did Jesus claim he was God?

No. In fact it appears while everyone around him was speculating who he might be, Jesus seems at pains to avoid the subject and repeatedly refers to himself as 

"the son of man" i.e very human. He didn't even say that he was the son of god, although,  IF he was the rightful heir to the throne of David then he would have also inherited the title -son of god- as other Hebrew kings did before him.

[Jesus said:] “I and the Father are one.” 

This more than likely means that he and his god are in agreement. Jesus understood the scriptures by all accounts and hadn't come to change them, if the bible is to be believed.

If this is not the case then it is a baffling statement that Jesus made here. Because he also says many things that contradict his own statement. Such as here> 

“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only. “ (Matthew 24:36) , clearly showing the two to be separate entities and clearly talking about what he knows and what only his god knows.

-> @Shila

Jesus, fictional, mythical or otherwise is undeniably a historically recorded character.

Whether the accounts of his life and activities are vaguely true or not, is impossible to know.

Though I would suggest that most interpretations are embellished and exaggerated, such that we can only regard the biblical tales as myth or fantasy. 

For instance, would Jesus have been his given name?

--> @Tarik

so, FUNCTIONALLY each person needs to figure out FOR THEMSELVES what they believe is "right" and what is "wrong" ?

Yes, if what they believe aligns with God.

K_Michael: In other words, I can believe whatever I want so long as God says it's right?

That's the equivalent of letting a child pick out a candy at the store except they only get the candy bar if they pick the one you decided they should choose. Either the Bible (or whatever informs your flavor of religion) has clear instructions on how you should live your life and you don't get to decide for yourself, or the Bible isn't the word of God. 

--> @Shila

Your guess is as good as mine.  I am amazed by his subsequent behaviour.  He seems to have some issues to work out though. 

if determinism holds then whether we blame or punish wrobg-doers is iteself pre-determined, as is the outcome of this debate.  'Que Sera Sera'.

Sorry i'm not very motiated by the 'free will' topic anymore. I'm faking it!

My primary aim is to expose the underlying mechanisms that inform "how we should act".

It appears that most of the identifiable "winners" of recorded history were primarily motivated by unadulterated self-interest (charismatic sociopaths).

The law in particular seems to be a thinly veiled cudgel used to intimidate and destroy the challengers of those privileged to wield it.

When I was young I thought the law was an unfeeling machine that grinds up anyone who crosses its path regardless of individual talent, wealth, or power.

Now I only wish that were true.

Ironically, the concepts of "objectivity" and "freewill" make us complacent slaves. 

“The text message suggests that Arizona GOP leaders had no intention of using donations to help pay for the audit effort, despite what it had been telling its supporters in fundraising pleas. In the end, the $6 million audit was bankrolled through a separate fundraising effort by election denier groups, along with $150,000 in initial taxpayer money”

“Pitch in to Help Us Finish America’s Audit!” and “Help America’s Audit” were among the dozens of pitches from the party.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/07/arizona-republicans-audit-fundraising/

“The pattern was evident around the country. In total, the House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol found that more than $250 million was raised off fraudulent claims that the election was stolen. Trump’s campaign continued to raise money for an “Election Defense Fund” that did not exist. Trump’s PAC has raised more than $100 million, much of it on claims the election was stolen, and he has largely hoarded the money while spending some on candidates and some on his own lawyers”

--> @TheMorningsStar

I do agree that technology was already diminishing healthy social interaction from a psychological POV, but I feel as if the Covid lockdowns dialed it up to 11. Also, what are your thoughts on the possible long term effects to the immune system via the hygiene hypothesis + lockdowns and over-sanitization?

I feel like you watched too much news. 

Anyway it’s reasonable to assume an overwhelming majority of parents were sane enough to allow their kids to take their masks off at home.

the strict mask requirements only lasted for a couple of years. When it comes to mental and immune development, children below the age of 5 would be most effected I would say. TV and smart devices were probably helpful in this circumstance for young kids seeing faces. Though this all just common sense to me.

--> @Shila

It means you don’t know Asian children.

I will neither confirm nor deny this. But what relevance does it have as it concerns the subject of this thread?

Soon as you advised him, he got banned.

Unless I advised him on his posts on the subject of pedophilia, then I don't see how I'm even remotely responsible for his getting banned. I don't know much on the circumstances that lead to his ban, so I won't state much on it.

--> @Shila

No one is white.

White is just a discriminatory remark made by people who have darker skin

--> @Shila

best.korea is a weird 

--> @Lemming

I understand it's a confusing question, and that is why I have brought it on here. 

I have a school assignment which is based around evaluating who was responsible for the Holocaust. I wanted to take a moral approach and analyse that area, and it lead me to that question. 

While I know it's confusing I have to tie it around responsibility as that is the assignment focus

Biden has said many recorded racist comments.

That’s a lie. He had gaffs but his statements were not meant to be prejudiced or hurtful or to advance white supremacy.

Biden apologized for telling a radio host that black voters torn between voting for him and President Trump “ain’t black,” He was talking to Charlamagne Tha God, a host on “The Breakfast Club,” a nationally syndicated morning show popular with black millennials. It’s likely Republicans never even heard of this guy or black millennials for that matter.

Some black people may like the Republican Party but the Party doesn’t like them. Just look at the makeup of the Republican Congress.

--> @Shila

You don’t seem to know Asian children. 

What does that matter?

We get that from your advice to Best.Korea.

You mean your erroneous inference?

-->

@Shila

@Stephen

@Tradesecret

Stephen,

In my post #809 above, have you EVER seen such a Bible ignorant and stupid woman that Shila represents, other than Tradesecret?  Watch Shila come up with a myriad of Satanic EXCUSES now to not bring forth her 2nd class woman Historical Jesus Thread! She will RUN and HIDE to prevent herself from myself and you, and the membership, in easily making Shila the continued pseudo-christian Bible fool regarding her proposed thread's topic!

"The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says."  (1 Corinthians 14:34)

Your scriptural ignorance is very telling.

-> @Shila

@ Brother D. ThomasFor your information I was asked by Stephen to start my own thread on the Religion forum. I have been doing research on the historical Jesus and thought  it would be a great  start to build a case for the historical Jesus so Christians would cease doubting and atheist start believing.

Indeed. I encouraged you to do so. And what's more, I am looking forward to it. 

--> @Shila

To debate publicly one needs to be knowledgeable, eloquent and have a certain amount of charisma.

--> @Best.Korea

Cartoons are for children. Are you children?

Everyone is someone's child. And while anime are cartoons, like any work of fiction, they spark the imagination; they spark interest; they spark emotional entry. Your rationale is flawed. If one were to watch a political show, which is for the most part "fiction," how would that speak to one's age, or as you implied, "maturity," as opposed to watching "Black Lagoon," for those of you who know is an anime with themes which I'm fairly confident most parents would not want their children watching? 

If you don't like anime/cartoons, then you don't like them. But don't fool yourself into thinking that it's because you're more "mature" than those who do. Your statement in and of itself is a testament to that.

--> @Shila

When left to one's thoughts the mind opens. What will you see? The true form of what you really are, or the empty shell of what you want to be?  Are you afraid? Do you fear Silence?

--> @coal

I am embarrassed for you.  

So? Relevance? Why do believe it necessary to state to me how you feel, rather than address the contention I provided?

I am disinclined to talk in circles. 

Suit yourself. Have a nice day, sir.

If the victims are black it's racist. If the shooter is black it's racist. If the shooter and victim is black it's racist. If neither is black it's racist (for leavin them out)

--> @Shila

I will need to get permission to post a picture of my hymen to both prove  I am not a bot and that I am a virgin.

That’s nuts

--> @Shila

.

Shila,

YOUR QUOTE IN YOUR UNGODLY POST #803 IN GOING AGAINST JESUS' TRUE WORDS AS YAHWEH GOD INCARNATE: "I am going to start my first thread which is a case for the historical Jesus."

What part of the following passages don't you understand as a mere "second class" woman, you Bible fool?!?

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp the authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (Timothy 2:12) 

“ But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman in man. For the man is not of the women; but the woman of the man.” (1Corinthians 11: 3,8 ) 

“I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare.” (Ecclesiastes 7:26)

NEXT SECOND CLASS WOMAN LIKE SHILA THAT GOES DIRECTLY AGAINST JESUS THE CHRIST'S TRUE WORDS WILL BE ...?

--> @TheMorningsStar

Somehow I find SupaDudzs description more alarm ringing than your own,

Has COVID effected the adolescent mentality? (debateart.com)

Wearing face masks doesn't seem that large an issue for development to me, but maybe having seen the face regularly during formative years is something I take for granted,

It's not as though 'all people are wearing a mask, family, TV, people are still seen without masks.

Also seems to me people still have time to encounter microbes, though maybe not 'as much as they might have had. . .

I 'do remember being sick way more when I was young, than as an adult,

Though I don't know if that's because children are more susceptible, or if there's a lot of sicknesses we get as a kid, become immune to as adults.

--> @Shila

I will need to get permission to post a picture of my hymen to both prove  I am not a bot and that I am a virgin.

And equally, I could post a picture to prove that I’m a penguin.

--> @Shila

Shila, 

YOUR QUOTE: "Because the Gospels are eyewitness accounts ofJesus and his teachings they quote the actual words spoken by Jesus."

You are correct, you ungodly woman that is not supposed to be within this Religion forum to begin with!  That being biblically said, JESUS SAID: “I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, "bring them here and slay them in front of me." After Jesus had said this, He went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.….” ( Luke 19:26-28)

Yes, the above KILLING statement by our Jesus is relative to His Second Coming. Nevertheless, Jesus promoted His disciples to bring anyone that did not want Jesus to rule over them to KILL these people in front of Jesus, therefore Jesus was an accomplice to this killing act!

Shila Bible fool, do we still promote Jesus as an ever loving and forgiving God (1 Timothy 3:15-16) because of what He said in the passage in question?  Or, do we just accept that Jesus is a serial killer within the scriptures and admit that we worship an horrific serial killer God of the innocents, like within the Great Flood that He enacted that murdered innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies?

Bible fool Shila, when are you going to actually READ the JUDEO-Christian Bible and understand that your position here is to STFU and remain silent towards the man that outright own you and what you do? “But I suffer not a woman to teach, NOR TO USURP THE AUTHORITY OVER THE MAN, but to be in silence.” (Timothy 2:12) 

NEXT DUMBFOUNDED OF THE BIBLE LIKE THE HELL BOUND WOMAN "SHILA" WILL BE ...?

--> @Shila

Which part of Shila is a bot that you would like to see and touch to confirm it is not?

Which part of Shila would it be possible to see and touch?

Start your own thread, you may be able to keep up with that.

--> @ILikePie5

--> @Elliott

I wonder if Lemming may be right and Shila could be a chatbot part of the time, and post human comments other parts of the time. Or be intentionally acting like a bot.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a part time bot/part time real person.

Me too. 50/50. 

Today, Ukraine seized the strategic town of Lyman, which was an important railway hub for the Russian army. The town fell under the area which Russia claimed to have annexed, and thus which fell under Russia's nuclear umbrella.

But of course, there were no consequences for Ukraine taking back its territory.

In the grand scheme of things, today's event was insignificant by itself. However, each little victory like this will chip away at something: either Russia's illegitimate claims to Ukrainian territory or Russian national sovereignty itself. Every day where Ukraine gives Putin the finger and advances further and further past his red line in the sand is a good day.

--> @Shila

You are trying hard to reason with a 14 year of Korean. Spanking is the only thing that works in Korea. Look what happens when the child is spared the spanking. They go ballistic then nuclear.

You are correct.  No doubt about that.

--> @Shila

I only very occasionally debate for fun.

I don't have the time to research and debate seriously.

--> @Shila

If Badge is Irish, they were probably raised as a Catholic and therefore will know all about predatory behaviour in the vestry.

Just saying.

Badger: I say obscene shit all the time. I don't play at being a college professor on an internet forum so I can scold young boys over PM for kicks. One's an appropriate use of an internet forum. The other is predator behaviour.

I didn't ask you for shit, you dopey bitch. I trolled an obnoxious and silly poster.

It is none of your business who and when one member engages another or who and when members became agreeable. It appears to me that you simply post for for no other reason but the sake of posting, rendering your posts meaningless and irrelevant to the thread.

  And you need to learn to read what it is you choose to comment on. The agreement I have with Double_R in this case is that Sidewalker is dishonest.

Yes Double_R, this is right out of the Reverend tradsecret  textbook of denial and deceit.  And you can expect this kind of deviousness from sidewalker in the future.

Just don't want to delete my thoughts.

Drummer Hoff, Pvt Pyle, Guard dog, Rabid dog, Hess, Spasm, Control, Intent, Understand, Cog, Laws of Gravity, Beating a cog can change it's shape, Beating a cog in anger, Beating a human can change their shape, beating a human can change other human's shapes, why beat a cog in anger, why beat a human in anger, beating a cog will not change other cogs shapes, Retribution, To the best of your abilities, What happens if succeed, fail, To you, To task, Right time place person, Brain tumor, Psych self improvement and agency, desire for or not revenge an evolutionary trait, We are avatars of our own nature and experiences, If a sliver causes my pain burning the tree that gave it will not remove my pain, Value X more than X leads to X, Death Larsen, Being part of existence our insides are part of nature and nurture, don't watch your legs centipede, Can a choice be made for you, Problem of sets, But to not be my ego screams in defiance, How can anything be valued without an observer, Expected ability of individual, No one there but pieces, Atheism killed meaning by it's method, Sliver came from bark bark from tree Hitler was a piece of bark, What is justice fairness, Chance inside and out occurs that expected outcomes do not result, Psychology depends on will of individual to change except for AA where drinker accepts their weak will or high dependence has left them unable to choose to quit, We identify with and are our parts, Maybe word moral confuses me, S**t happens, Manson, Djinni, Guilt vs Pain, Milgram Experiment, Stanford Prison Experiment, Patty Hearst Stockholm Syndrome, People always have a choice,

--> @Shila

Now you seem to be bringing up an argument from another thread into this one. You want to knock my debating skills? Fine then. I challenge you to a debate. A real one, not some forum back-and-forth.

The Topic: Higher Elo on DART is Automatically a Sign of Better Debating Skills

You: Pro

Me: Con

You should have no problem accepting this debate since you are constantly using users' elo ranking as a means to evaluate them. I'll be setting it up momentarily.

--> @Shila

It says I have not participated in any debates. It doesn’t say I lost the debates I participated in. In your case you lost the majority of  the debates you participated in.

Again, because I gave little effort in those debates. Regardless, it is better experience than having no debates on record at all.

--> @ILikePie5

We weren’t involved in the process.

You weren't. I was. I will admit publicly that I was the person who sounded the alarm bells to the mod team, which is the biggest reason for my apology to Shila.

--> @Shila

Just checked your  win ration is even lower. It’s under 21%

That is because I fall into the low effort category. If you're going to try to make that ad hominem attack on me, then you should check your own profile first. Otherwise, it gives me the ability to check yours. 

According to your profile, you haven't been in any debates yet. Using your own logic, it is reasonable to say that you have even less ground to stand on here.

Shila is gone, the forums can heal

Haha

To conclude, having a higher elo doesn't mean you are of higher intelligence, and it doesn't even mean you're a better debater. If you are #1 on the site, it simply means you're the best on the site out of those who put actual effort into it (assuming you aren't a complete noob sniper who can't beat better competition). You could be the best debater on the site period, and you could also be the most intelligent user, but that is not guaranteed.