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@BrotherD.Thomas
--> @Shila @Tradesecret.Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,Dear Shila, can you tell the membership of this Religion Forum in how it feels to kick Jesus in the balls, and continually sin against Him by posting in this pathetic ungodly thread of yours as a Hell bound woman, whereas Jesus' inspired words says you are not too in the following verse: "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)
How Jesus Viewed and Valued Women
Jesus's Countercultural View of Women
The place of women in the first-century Roman world and in Judaism has been well-documented and set forth in several recent books.1 Most frequently, women were regarded as second-class citizens.
Jesus’s regard for women was much different from that of his contemporaries. Evans terms Jesus’s approach to women as “revolutionary” for his era.2 But was his treatment of women out of character with Old Testament revelation, or with later New Testament practice? Other chapters in this volume will show that it was not.
Disciples Come in Two Sexes, Male and Female
For Christ, women have an intrinsic value equal to that of men. Jesus said, “. . . at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’” (Matt. 19:4; cf. Gen. 1:27). Women are created in the image of God just as men are. Like men, they have self-awareness, personal freedom, a measure of self-determination, and personal responsibility for their actions.
Scanzoni and Hardesty point out that “Jesus came to earth not primarily as a male but as a person. He treated women not primarily as females but as human beings.”3 Jesus recognized women as fellow human beings. Disciples come in two sexes, male and female. Females are seen by Jesus as genuine persons, not simply as the objects of male desire.4 Hurley believes “the foundation-stone of Jesus’s attitude toward women was his vision of them as persons to whom and for whom he had come. He did not perceive them primarily in terms of their sex, age, or marital status; he seems to have considered them in terms of their relation (or lack of one) to God.”5
Three Clear Examples
Examples of this even-handed treatment of women by Jesus are found in the four Gospels.
First, Jesus regularly addressed women directly while in public. This was unusual for a man to do (John 4:27). The disciples were amazed to see Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar (John 4:7-26). He also spoke freely with the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11).6 Luke, who gives ample attention to women in his Gospel, notes that Jesus spoke publicly with the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12–13), the woman with the bleeding disorder (Luke 8:48; cf. Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34), and a woman who called to him from a crowd (Luke 11:27–28). Similarly, Jesus addressed a woman bent over for eighteen years (Luke 13:12) and a group of women on the route to the cross (Luke 23:27-31).
A second aspect of Jesus’s regard for the full intrinsic value of women is seen in how he spoke to the women he addressed. He spoke in a thoughtful, caring manner. Each synoptic writer records Jesus addressing the woman with the bleeding disorder tenderly as “daughter” (references above) and referring to the bent woman as a “daughter of Abraham” (Luke 13:16). Bloesch infers that “Jesus called the Jewish women ‘daughters of Abraham’ (Luke 13:16), thereby according them a spiritual status equal to that of men.”7
Third, Jesus did not gloss over sin in the lives of the women he met. He held women personally responsible for their own sin as seen in his dealings with the woman at the well (John 4:16–18), the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11), and the sinful woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:44–50). Their sin was not condoned, but confronted. Each had the personal freedom and a measure of self-determination to deal with the issues of sin, repentance, and forgiveness.
Jesus's Valuation of Women Today
Even though clear role distinction is seen in Christ’s choice of the apostles and in the exclusive type of work they were given to perform, no barriers need exist between a believer and the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of gender. Jesus demonstrated only the highest regard for women, in both his life and teaching. He recognized the intrinsic equality of men and women, and continually showed the worth and dignity of women as persons. Jesus valued their fellowship, prayers, service, financial support, testimony and witness. He honored women, taught women, and ministered to women in thoughtful ways.
As a result, women responded warmly to Jesus’s ministry. Have things changed too drastically today for us to see this same Jesus? Not at all. Modern women can find the same rich fulfillment in serving Christ as did the Marys and Marthas of Judea, or the Joannas and Susannas of Galilee.
I will follow up on page 4 through 5 later on to keep track in how many times YOU HAVE SINNED AGAINST JESUS THE CHRIST by not following 1 Timothy 2:11-14 to the letter, where its like you perceive yourself to know more than Jesus in this respect. NOT!!! Your Bible stupidity is funny!
2 TIMOTHY 3:16) Was written by Paul in 67AD. That is 37 years after Jesus was crucified. Paul never met or heard Jesus during Jesus’s life or ministry.
The Gospels and writings by Paul are just biographies about Jesus his life and teachings. Jesus said he was sen5 to fulfill all that was promised in the Old Testament.
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Remember the days when the equally Bible stupid Tradesecret continued to post within DEBATEART Religion forum as a female as well in going directly against Jesus the Christ's "inspired word" in 1 Timothy:11-14? Yes, as usual, many members of this forum Bible Slapped her Silly®️ as well in the name of Jesus, praise!
You keep bringing up Tradesecret because you are obsessed with her sexual dysphoria.
Then you keep repeating Timothy as inspired scriptures. Paul wrote Timothy.
What was Paul teaching in the Bible?
He preached the death, resurrection, and lordship of Jesus Christ, and he proclaimed that faith in Jesus guarantees a share in his life which is all just a biography of Jesus since Paul never met or knew Jesus in real life.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)
“The Scriptures” are the words written in the Holy Bible. The Gospel referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings.
(2 Timothy 3:16) was written by Paul. Therefore it is not scriptures but apostle teachings.
Gospels are Jesus Christ’s teachings or revelations. They recount Jesus’ life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection. It is primarily about Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection. It is therefore a biography of Jesus.
YOUR CONTINUED DUMBFOUNDED QUOTE IN RESPONSE TO THE BIBLE PASSAGE ABOVE: "You are quoting the Gospels referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament."Barring the fact that the Old and New Testaments are known as scripture, where you only say the Old Testament is scripture, your Bible stupidity continues! LOL! What part of the word "ALL" don't you comprehend? LOL! OMG, your evading tactics remind me of Tradesecrets, where you must have gone to her "How to evade disturbing Biblical Axioms and to try and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath Bible School!"
The Gospel referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings.
Gospels are Jesus Christ’s teachings or revelations. They recount Jesus’ life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection. It is primarily about Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection. It is therefore a biography of Jesus.
"ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD!" (2 TIMOTHY 3:16). Who is the Christian God, yes, Jesus the Christ! Therefore, Jesus' written Bible is ALL inspired by Him, period, you continued dumbfounded pseudo-christian woman!!!!
2 TIMOTHY 3:16) Was written by Paul in 67AD. That is 37 years after Jesus was crucified. Paul never met or heard Jesus during Jesus’s life or ministry.
Shila, how can you remain in this Religion Forum with you easily being made the Bible fool? Huh?NEXT HELL BOUND PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WOMAN THAT IS AS BIBLE STUPID AS TRADESECRET AND SHILA, WILL BE ...?
Most if not everything Jesus said he was quoting from the 24 books in the Old Testament. The scriptures were already in the Old Testament. Jesus was just rehashing them.
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@oromagi
Fact Check.
There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.
Many scientists remain open to a lab escape of a natural virus, but fewer entertain the notion that SARS-CoV-2 was engineered. While this cannot be ruled out entirely, multiple coronavirus experts view this as implausible. And the only way SARS-CoV-2 could have come from the lab, whether manipulated or a naturally occurring virus, is if the Wuhan lab was in possession of a virus much more similar to SARS-CoV-2 than the coronaviruses that have been identified.
Robert F. Garry, a virologist at Tulane University School of Medicine, told us a coronavirus would have to be “at least 99%” similar to SARS-CoV-2 and “probably” 99.9% similar “to make that kind of switch in the lab at all.”
“There’s just no evidence,” he said, that the Wuhan Institute of Virology “had anything close to that.”
Shi announced in late January 2020 that a bat virus the lab named RaTG13 shares 96.2% of its genome with SARS-CoV-2, which is the highest percentage of any known virus. But experts say speculation that RaTG13 could have been changed to become SARS-CoV-2 is misplaced.
That’s because RaTG13’s genome still differs from SARS-CoV-2 by more than 1,000 nucleotides. “RaTG13 is too divergent to be this ancestral virus,” David Robertson, the head of viral genomics and bioinformatics at the University of Glasgow, told us.
Shi says there is only a genome sequence for RaTG13 anyway — live virus was never isolated from the sample.
Notably, other teams have subsequently found three other bat viruses that are more closely related to SARS-CoV-2 than RaTG13 when factoring in viral recombination — although they, too, are not precursors to the virus.
Paul claimed: “We don’t know if it didn’t come from the lab, but all the evidence is pointing that it came from the lab.” That’s not the case.
“On lab-leak, there’s no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab other than the coincidence of the Wuhan Institute of Virology being there,” Robertson told us.
Many scientists who study coronaviruses say what data we do have points to a natural spillover as the likely origin, given the presence of similar viruses circulating in bats, the links of many of the first COVID-19 cases to animal markets in Wuhan and past spillover events with other coronaviruses. But without identification of a near-identical virus in a bat or other animal, scientists cannot be completely certain.
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@zedvictor4
-->@LemmingGood morning.I will read and reply later
Most people already know what the Holocaust did. You appear very unprepared.
It had to take both groups, the morally ambiguous and the intense fanatics to justify the extermination of 6 million Jews.
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@sadolite
We all should be sick of M.A.D. Mutually Assured Destruction.
-> @ShilaYes yes yes that's what I was referring too, Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahga
Aren’t you glad I spelled it out for you?
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@zedvictor4
In evolutionary terms white skinned people should be blamed. They engaged in 2 world wars in Europe, the centre of the white race. Then America led the way to inventing weapons of mass destruction. And now we are at the precipitous of a Third World War with nuclear bombs.
Not to forget whites came up with the idea of colonization and slavery.
-->@ShilaIn evolutionary terms your scope of reference amounts to a nanosecond.In so much as, you cherry pick the bits of very recent history and human social development that you have been conditioned to cherry pick.
We are not talking in evolutionary terms. Even you pointed it as recent history and human social development.
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@Elliott
--> @StephenNice thought, but is that truth?Simple answer without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth." Faith doesn’t require truth but it can be based on truth.
That is a good example of the case for the Historical Jesus which is based on truth and does not require faith. It offers Simple answers without getting into the philosophical nature of "truth."
Thank you.
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaBut we first have to conduct ourselves worthy of such a discussion.Well, you blew that out of the water when you deceitfully tried to put words into my mouth and the mouth of Josephus.#32 . I knew then you wouldn't stay true to the topic.And if you didn't want is thread, your thread, to veer so far off course you should have stuck with the theme of the thread instead of going out of your way to hold a completely different conversation about the Brother and about someone that is quite capable of speaking for himself. You "reap what you sow", and all that.
We have to put to rest our detractors. I never put words in your mouth or anyone else’s. I put my words out in public for all to read just like I am doing here building the case for the Historical Jesus.
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@Tradesecret
-> @BrotherD.ThomasTradesecret learned the hard way, https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8091/post-links/351103Hello Brother, it seems your memory is fading.The only one around here who seems to have learned the hard way is you.Not once have you succeeded in any of you dumb attempts at foiling the God of the Bible. I expect you don't even know what the word foil means.Ha.
You appear to show moments of lucidity between gaps in your sexual dysphoria as fleeting as they are.
You were about to explain what foil means. I assume you are more familiar with it than most members here. But I managed to find what you were alluding to.
What does tinfoil mean in slang?
Tinfoil hat is widely used as an insult for acting crazy or believing in nonsense or “out-there” ideas, including conspiracy theories.
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@Stephen
If you and pussycat found him very articulate , why are you two treating him like he is a bible fool?Ok, you have given me good and genuine reason, so;I cannot speak for the Brother but for me it was not only the uncalled for insults such as;"you are the serpent, satan, whatever - he is the accuser and you follow after him. you are his disciple. From my point of view - he is slime. You know like the stuff we find after a snail has passed by. creepy. disgusting. Ugly. \ #24 Tradesecret"After all, you are the swine and the dogs that trample over the pearls. your comments to me are like water of a ducks back". #36 "Words are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret:Are these the words of a charitable, caring and benevolent christian Chaplain or a Pastor. A pastor of a church with over 300 people#67 and that was "chosen by god". And he studied Shakespeare too! It is also because for all his acclaimed theological education and some 40+ years of bible study and " memorising the bible backwards and forwards", he really is actually bible ignorant as I have proven him to be many times.
That is disgusting and disgraceful coming from Reverend Tradesecret. Maybe we should explore his depravity more and credit him less with his pastoral shortcomings. He isn’t much different from the people that wanted Jesus crucified because he too seeks to see Jesus’s legacy destroyed.
Why were the Jewish elders upset if Jesus was their promised messiah?Did they believe Jesus to be the promised Messiah? And they were "upset" for many reasons.Those Pastors and Priest of old were raking it in. The temple mount and the temple compound was a hive of commerce, with money changers making a killing on the exchange rate as pilgrims could only buy with money acceptable to the temple authorities and traders taking advantage of a bad situation (and good one’s) by selling only“perfect doves” and other "unblemished" live stock to the gullible for offerings to god.There was also the “ransom” straight to the temple priests of the sanctuary, as god told Moses “all of them shall give a ransom for their lives to the Lord so that no plague may come upon them”. And " All the money of the dedicated gifts that are brought into the house of the LORD—each man’s census money, each man’s assessment money—and all the money that a man purposes in his heart to bring into the house of the LORD", which I am sure you understand was "guilt money" and each person registered in the census had to pay a half shekel to be used for cultic atonement made to Yahweh.And nothing has changed has it? God is angry pay up. You have upset the lord pay up. You didn't donate enough money to god so out you go to live among the "dead". It is the biggest legal con known to man. Is it any wonder that the Reverend Tradesecret is both a pastor and a lawyer. Small print you see shila. Its all in the small print, my friend.I won't go on only to say, is it any wonder those puppet priests didn’t want to give over this lucrative business to Jesus the interloper.Then of course as I have already mentioned, there was the genuine fear of Jesus upsetting the status quo. Such as mentioned here;" If we allow him to go on in this way, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away our sanctuary and scatter our nation.” Which they did in the end.
Ironically they were right on both counts. The Romans established the Roman Catholic Church where over a billion Catholics believe in Jesus and the Romans did take away their sanctuary and scattered their nation.
By their actions they actually helped Jesus fulfil his prophecies.
Even Jesus acknowledged they did not know what they were doing.
Luke 23:34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
"Most atheists I know are impractical and airhead. Many end up in prison, for theft and sex related crimes, mostly kiddie crime. Many commit suicide and or are on drugs and alcohol. Not too many get married, or if they do - are on to their 4 or 4th marriage. Many are gay or lesbian. #33"I don't like the idea of me or my family being lumped in with "most" atheist that he has met.
Reverend Tradesecret was recalling his days as an atheist and the life he led before his conversion. One could read it as nostalgia.
But you are different and very grounded. You don’t expect miracles to come out of your beliefs.
You wrote: I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.
I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily.
You have helped me take Reverend Tradesecret’s depravity more seriously.
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@zedvictor4
-> @ShilaNope, banning just creates resentment.Ideology will evolve slowly.Though what the masses are conditioned to think and do is perhaps somewhat irrelevant in terms of evolutionary progress.Nonetheless it would be foolish to suggest that the greater society is not essential to that progress.
Shila has taken an all inclusive approach in this tread to build the case for the Historical Jesus. We will get into the evolutionary progress Jesus made from his entrance to his departure. But we first have to conduct ourselves worthy of such a discussion.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
And BAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.My morals just kicked in.Hey guys.Because we dont " tell on " people in this forum , we need toIf you see someone being continuously " attacked " by , for example, The brother D . With very little given back , you have to rise up and insult the brother D a few times , in hope to get him to abuse you for a while. Take some ofthe heat.▪○°•▪○°•▪○°• Take note people. ▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•It is difficult seeing / thinking a person would talk harshly OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN .ESPECIALLY TO A FEMALE.I'll jump in for Shila soon.This is something we in the forum should of done for trade buttttt.Hopefully the brother can shift gears and give us a nice happy fun religious post.Or give me shit.So ummmmm , Take note.
Shila created the case for the Historical Jesus so we could all agree that Jesus existed as a starting point and from there explore what Jesus said and how he was misunderstood. Was it all lost in translation or the scholars missed the Jewish roots of Jesus' divinity?
Please resolve your issue with BrotherD.Thomas so we can all get back to our discussion on the case of the Historical Jesus.
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@Tradesecret
Are you admitting here your gender change was because of external pressure? You have to become a woman to please all your critics.
You gave other reasons for your depravity.
In relation to God calling me. That is the point. I did not choose God - he chose me. I would never have chosen God - since I was totally depraved. Total does not mean so evil I was evil - but so totally depraved that I could not save myself. There was no deceit in what I said.
-> @ShilaShila or Harikrish,If you had taken the time to read my posts - which your comment seems to refute.I have never changed genders. My gender remains the same as it was the day I was born.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2106/post-links/351132I did indicate however that my profile page has changed a lot. And the reason I changed that was due in part to external pressures inter alia.My depravity -which incidentally is COMMON to all people is total depravity. It is what flows from the original sin, the fall of man.
Here you confirm you are in total depravity. That must include your frequent gender changes.
In that sense, you and I and Stephen are all born depraved.
Like they say, Misery loves company. But the only one showing serious signs of depravity is you Tradesecret.
whatever dear Shila, it seems you too failed logic.
We are not discussing logic here Reverend Tradesecret. We are pointing to your depravity.
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@zedvictor4
--> @YassineYep, the baying masses have always loved a good neck snapping
They must have toned it down. It used to be throat slitting. Turkey style.
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@Stephen
I hate to see a Reverend reduced to a bible fool.Well he/she doesn't believe s/he is, does s/he?Maybe he is not very articulate.Are you kidding me!!? Have you not read his ever-increasing list qualifications and accolades? He was taught and trained by the best in the business. He translates ancient languages into English. He has been taught to memorise the bible from a very early age, he charges universities to tutor their students and he is a criminal lawyer!! And you say he is not articulate!!? Behave yourself shila.😂
If you and pussycat found him very articulate , why are you two treating him like he is a bible fool?
We know Jesus was crucified because he was misunderstood.Jesus was crucified for upsetting the status quo and the Jewish elders understood perfectly the threat he posed to them.
Why were the Jewish elders upset if Jesus was their promised messiah?
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@Tarik
-> @ShilaThis implies common sense is not subjective opinions therefore it must be objective facts.No, it implies it must be objective fact.
Correct, fixed typo.
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@Yassine
--> @ShilaHow were the dindes reacting to the news?- Probably more worried about their own necks being snapped for the pleasure of protestors
Just a bunch of Turkeys.
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@Stephen
I did correct the Reverend over his scriptures.That I suppose is part of the purpose of a religion forum. Did he cry when you "corrected" him/her? S/he usually does when I have had to correct the bible ignorant clown. S/he calls this an attack and bullying.and gender dysphoria. But it was done very professionally.It has never concerned me what he/she wants to be, is or was. I will admit that I was always curious why a man chosen by god would want to tell lies about hi/herself to begin with. Still, that his/her business.
I hate to see a Reverend reduced to a bible fool. Maybe he is not very articulate.
We know Jesus was crucified because he was misunderstood.
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@Yassine
--> @ShilaWhat do the French call a turkey?dindeIn French, a turkey is a coq d'inde or dinde—a name that references India. This connection is also shared by a clutch of other European languages, including Polish (indyk), Basque (indioliar), and Armenian (hndikahav, literally “Indian chicken”)- It originates in Arabic. Arabs called Turkey "Indian cock" or "Roman cock". The others, including the Turks, followed suit. The Turks call it 'Hindi' too.
Protests have broken out across Iran over the death of Mahsa Amini, 22, held by morality police for 'unsuitable attire',
How were the dindes reacting to the news?
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@Yassine
--> @ShilaOne would expect you to spell Turkey differently so you are not laughed at.- I love how Erdogan got the entire world to happily spell his country in -modern- Turkish. Even a quebequoi like you is championing it... On a different note, the quebequoi accent is my favorite French accent.
What do the French call a turkey?
dinde
In French, a turkey is a coq d'inde or dinde—a name that references India. This connection is also shared by a clutch of other European languages, including Polish (indyk), Basque (indioliar), and Armenian (hndikahav, literally “Indian chicken”)
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@Stephen
I would like to invite the Reverend here and help him restore some pastoral dignity. Can you deal with your pussycat?You say that as if I have influence. I don't. The Brother is his own man just as the Reverend is his/her own whatever s/he is calling herself on any given day.Besides, what or who can stop the Reverend joining any thread on the whole forum s/he chooses?What makes you believe he would want to join your thread anyway. From what I can gather, you are not his pinup boy and you both appear to have some old axe to grind.
I did correct the Reverend over his scriptures.and gender dysphoria. But it was done very professionally.
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@sadolite
--> @ebucEven you are sick of that poison LOL
We all should be sick of M.A.D. Mutually Assured Destruction.
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@Yassine
--> @Shila- Yours, actually
One would expect you to spell Turkey differently so you are not laughed at.
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@Stephen
-> @Shila--> @ShilaSo why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.viciously.!?The Brother is a pussycat. He never uses bad language or denigrates anyone, unless you consider that calling someone bible ignorant or a bible fool as being "attacked viciously". 😂 FFS!Calling a Reverend a bible fool should be taken seriously.Why? He says it doesn't bother him. ..... but then he whines and whinges about being stalked and "attacked". The reverend doesn't know his arse from his elbow at the best of time.That is attacking the core of his being and Christian mission.I think you mean the core of his beliefs. Deary me, there there, never mind. It will all come off when it's dry.
I would like to invite the Reverend here and help him restore some pastoral dignity. Can you deal with your pussycat?
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@Yassine
--> @Shila- Et ben alors, mais non quand meme. Surtout pas...
Testing your French?
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@oromagi
If Trump does not go to jail after:
1. Tax fraud (New York)
2. Election fraud (Georgia)
3. Stealing Classified Material from National Archives.
4. Jan 6 committee findings of Trump trying to overthrow 2020 election results.
We can rest assured America will be a laughing stock and Trump will not let them forget it.
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@Yassine
--> @ShilaYou are rather quiet on this subject. Are you on the side of the Iranian Morality police?- Are you a robot? Blink if you're not.
I was cleared by the mods over a week ago. You must be a Sikh with a turban.
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@Elliott
I don’t think I disagree with anything you say there and I am familiar with the possible mistranslation regarding the word “virgin.”
You stopped processing after the word virgin.
I think the argument as to whether Jesus existed or not will continue but will not be resolved. You say what matters, is the truth but for a believer truth is revealed through faith.
Jesus’s birth is connected to the word virgin as in virgin birth. Why is it so difficult to resolve Jesus existed when virgins are found everywhere?
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaSo why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.viciously.!?The Brother is a pussycat. He never uses bad language or denigrates anyone, unless you consider that calling someone bible ignorant or a bible fool as being "attacked viciously". 😂 FFS!
Calling a Reverend a bible fool should be taken seriously. That is attacking the core of his being and Christian mission.
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaI cannot comment on Reverend Tradesecret.Why ever not? You seem to speak for everyone else even going as far as to put words in the mouths of others, my own included.But I am confident he will redeem himself and restore faith in the historical and Biblical Jesus.I think it speaks for itself that the Reverend Tradesecret will agree that there was an historical and biblical Jesus. Of that there can be no doubt. S/he was, after all, "chosen by god " himself so he must have already received redemption.... in gods eyes only. This is aside the fact that s/he is a Pastor with " a congregation of over 300" and "a Chaplain to his/her countries defence forces". Surley he wouldn't hold these positions if he didn't believe in a historical and biblical Jesus?
So why does BrotherD.Thomas attack Reverend Tradesecret so viciously.
THURSDAY, JUNE 23, 2022
!!!!!!!!! UPDATE ON MISS TRADESECRET’S COMICAL AND LAME EXCUSES TO RUN AWAY FROM YOUR LOGICAL BIBLICAL QUESTIONS PRESENTED TO HER BECAUSE SHE CAN’T ADDRESS THEM AND REMAIN INTELLIGENT LOOKING IN THE AFTERMATH, “OTHER THAN TO RUN AWAY FROM THEM AS SHOWN BY THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTED EXAMPLES” !!!!!!!!!!
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #1: Tradesecret will call you a “bully,” for making her the Bible fool, or for asking questions that she could not answer, even though the questions asked were logically valid and biblically axiomatic!
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #2: Tradesecret will accuse you of “stalking” her if you repeat more than once why Tradesecret hasn’t addressed your questions in the first place!
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #3: Tradesecret will use the ruse of “attacking them personally,” by name calling, which has nothing to do with the questions asked to her. Where the irony is she performs this act as well. Can Tradesecret spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E? Sure she can.
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #4: she will just go “SILENT” to your questions in the hopes that you will forget about the fact that you presented them to her in the first place!
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #5: she will give you “cutesy” excuses and images to try and take your mind off of the FACT that she is running away again from your valid axiomatic biblical questions! Child-like, but what did we expect. :(
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #6: Now if you want to make her the continued Bible fool, she “may” answer you if your question or statement to her is “properly presented to her!“ LOL!
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #7: She will tell you that you are not interpreting the scripture correctly, even though it is LITERAL in nature. She disagrees with the literal presentation of any passage or narrative that embarrasses her, then she will come up with another ungodly "convenient interpretation" of said verse to make you wrong!
MISS TRADESECRET RUNAWAY EXCUSE #8: She will tell you that what you have found regarding her ungodly and despicable nature is because you have "hacked" into her DA account, and changed her posts to disgusting posts to further embarrass her! Priceless runaway tactic.
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #9: She will divert the attention away from her in failing to prove her point by calling you a “creepy old man or a dunce.”
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #10”: She will use the term that you “Distract and Attack” to save her from further embarrassment to her outright Bible stupidity and ignorance that has no bounds!
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #11: She will say that she is not answering personal questions even though she at times presents personal things of hers in her posts, like showing us she is an admitted SEXUAL DEVIANT! https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEBCZRV
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #12: When you challenge her to a debate like I did, she will tell you that you argue like a 12 year old girl or boy and have not matured enough, therefore she will RUN away from debating you, because in essence, she can't debate you in the first place!
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #13: She will tell you that you don’t have a brain and that you are a fake, and you don’t have the background to discuss religion with her.
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #14: She will tell you that you look “dumb” and that you couldn’t really grasp the subject matter, therefore she will RUN AWAY from your posst to her and hide.
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #15: Zeus forbid if you are an Atheist who outright owns her Bible stupidity, because she'll send up a smoke screen to prevent the Atheist from further embarrassing her regarding the Bible, she will call you names and blanket unwarranted claims about your denying any God.
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #16: Her computer tells her that she should not open up webpage links it does not recognize that you have posted to her, therefore releasing her from further biblical embarrassment! LOL!
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #17: If you make a derogatory comment to her it is enough for her to not address your question, BUT, she makes these same remarks to other members, can we say HYPOCRITE, sure we can!
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #18: She will call your posts to her as LIES, therefore there is no need for her to discuss your posts, yes, this is true! Can we call Miss Tradesecret the habitual RUNAWAY? Sure we can!
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #19: She will tell you that your posts are “not worth it” to respond too, in once again showing her outright Bible ignorance to run away from them!
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #20: She will tell you that she doesn’t give a “toss” about your stupid ideas of a post you’ve directed to her, again, in running away from it as usual.
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #21: When she opens a previous link that was directed to her, and after opening it and it showed her that she was wrong in her perceived biblical knowledge, she will tell you that she DID NOT open said post because she could care less in what you proposed! LOL
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #22: She will tell you that you don’t have enough “integrity” to take her time in debating you or answer your questions as a little crybaby!
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #23: If she knows you will easily “own her Bible stupidity,” and allegedly you are using a fake personna, she will not debate you or answer your questions, other than to run away and HIDE from them!
MISS TRADESECRET EXCUSE #24: She will answer questions that she wants to answer, and not other questions that makes her the Bible fool!
We can only assume that poor ol’ Miss Tradesecret, in being the #1 Bible stupid runaway fool of this forum, at one point will have so many excuses piled up not to address questions posed to her, that she will not be able to be in this forum anymore because the MANY EXCUSES that she has will cause her to be SILENT! LOL!
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@Stephen
--> @ShilaNote: The case for Historical Jesus is moving from historical facts to biblical facts.Just as well. It would have died a death had it not moved on as I suggested way back on page one
You did say you believed Jesus was wrapped in a myth by the early church.
I believe that Jesus was a man that believed himself to be or was led to be believe that he was the rightful heir to the throne of David and king of the Jews and Jerusalem minus the miracles. While I also believe he was a man wrapped in a myth by the early church.
That would be equivalent to rushing through Jesus’s life to get to the crucifixion thus nullifying his life and mission.
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@Stephen
--> @BrotherD.ThomasJesus H. Christ, and I thought Tradesecret was bible stupid, whereas you take the cake hands down!I have to disagree with you on that one point, BrotherD.Shila has some way to go before he gets to that Calibur and withing a mile of the bible ignorance and stupidity of the Reverend "tradey" tradesecret.
I cannot comment on Reverend Tradesecret. But I am confident he will redeem himself and restore faith in the historical and Biblical Jesus.
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@Stephen
--> @ElliottWell I am going to take it that you have actually read Isiah in its entirety? But you have failed to realise that this so-called prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in king Ahaz's lifetime and has nothing at all to do with a child to be born 700 years into the future.After all, what good would a child to be born 700 years into the future be to king Ahaz in his hour of need?I have said it before that this is the author of Matthew's gospel once again reaching for his trusty OT in a desperate attempt to link Jesus to the OT prophesies as being the one to come and prophesised about, and it is something he does often in the New Testament.The founders of Christianity appear to have accepted it as a prophecy that related to the coming of the messiah and it is that which matters.Because it suited them to do so. And what matters, is the truth.
That the prophecy was fulfilled establishes it as a fact.
This prophesy is also perceived to relate to Jesus supposed virgin birth, which is also fundamental to a belief in the messianic claim.Your quote above^^ is what many traditional bibles claim. But is it accurate?This is what Good News Translation states."Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him 'Immanuel.' "Isaiah 7:14Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14So here above we have a present tense. The young woman is already with child. So unless this young woman undergoes a 700 year pregnancy then this child is not the child that the author of Mathew can possibly be talking about.It appears then that someone, intentional or not, made a mistranslation (no surprises there then).And wouldn't have Isaiah use the Hebrew word for Virgin- bethulah?bethulah: a virginOriginal Word: בְּתוּלָהPart of Speech: Noun FeminineTransliteration: bethulahPhonetic Spelling: (beth-oo-law')Definition: a virgin
The translation from Hebrew (a single young woman) to virgin in the New Testament was simply stating a fact that women remained virgins till married. Mary was a single woman and a virgin when the angel visited her.
the messianic claimJesus only once agree that he was the Messiah. Although he didn't say so outright. But did he fulfil that role that was expected of a Messiaha? . For instance;Did he rebuild the Temple?Did he unite all the Jewish tribes?Did he free the Jews from the Roman yoke?AndDid he bring peace to the world?And remember this, when Mary is said to conceive this child, did he inherit the throne of Jerusalem/David as was promised by God to his mother? No.did he rule over the house of Jacob forever, and did his kingdom will never end? No.What he inherited was three nails and two bits of wood with a view overlooking the Kidron valley.You may want to peruse your line of questioning by looking up the word- Alma - and what it means.
Jesus changed Gods original mission from being just a messiah to the Jews to saviour of the world.
From:
Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
To:
Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Did he rebuild the Temple?
Did he unite all the Jewish tribes?
Did he free the Jews from the Roman yoke?
And
Did he bring peace to the world?
The Jews turned Jesus from a local messiah to saviour of the world. Today there are over 2 billion followers of Jesus. TheJesus mission has become universal.
Note: The case for Historical Jesus is moving from historical facts to biblical facts.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
-> @Shila.Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,In prayer with Jesus again, He has told me to show the membership in how many times you have sinned against Him by being a woman and trying to preach to the superior men within your ungodly thread, where you have biblically and absolutely no business in doing so as the passage below so states!"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)
How Jesus Viewed and Valued Women
Jesus's Countercultural View of Women
The place of women in the first-century Roman world and in Judaism has been well-documented and set forth in several recent books.1 Most frequently, women were regarded as second-class citizens.
Jesus’s regard for women was much different from that of his contemporaries. Evans terms Jesus’s approach to women as “revolutionary” for his era.2 But was his treatment of women out of character with Old Testament revelation, or with later New Testament practice? Other chapters in this volume will show that it was not.
Disciples Come in Two Sexes, Male and Female
For Christ, women have an intrinsic value equal to that of men. Jesus said, “. . . at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’” (Matt. 19:4; cf. Gen. 1:27). Women are created in the image of God just as men are. Like men, they have self-awareness, personal freedom, a measure of self-determination, and personal responsibility for their actions.
Scanzoni and Hardesty point out that “Jesus came to earth not primarily as a male but as a person. He treated women not primarily as females but as human beings.”3 Jesus recognized women as fellow human beings. Disciples come in two sexes, male and female. Females are seen by Jesus as genuine persons, not simply as the objects of male desire.4 Hurley believes “the foundation-stone of Jesus’s attitude toward women was his vision of them as persons to whom and for whom he had come. He did not perceive them primarily in terms of their sex, age, or marital status; he seems to have considered them in terms of their relation (or lack of one) to God.”5
Three Clear Examples
Examples of this even-handed treatment of women by Jesus are found in the four Gospels.
First, Jesus regularly addressed women directly while in public. This was unusual for a man to do (John 4:27). The disciples were amazed to see Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar (John 4:7-26). He also spoke freely with the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11).6 Luke, who gives ample attention to women in his Gospel, notes that Jesus spoke publicly with the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12–13), the woman with the bleeding disorder (Luke 8:48; cf. Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34), and a woman who called to him from a crowd (Luke 11:27–28). Similarly, Jesus addressed a woman bent over for eighteen years (Luke 13:12) and a group of women on the route to the cross (Luke 23:27-31).
A second aspect of Jesus’s regard for the full intrinsic value of women is seen in how he spoke to the women he addressed. He spoke in a thoughtful, caring manner. Each synoptic writer records Jesus addressing the woman with the bleeding disorder tenderly as “daughter” (references above) and referring to the bent woman as a “daughter of Abraham” (Luke 13:16). Bloesch infers that “Jesus called the Jewish women ‘daughters of Abraham’ (Luke 13:16), thereby according them a spiritual status equal to that of men.”7
Third, Jesus did not gloss over sin in the lives of the women he met. He held women personally responsible for their own sin as seen in his dealings with the woman at the well (John 4:16–18), the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11), and the sinful woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:44–50). Their sin was not condoned, but confronted. Each had the personal freedom and a measure of self-determination to deal with the issues of sin, repentance, and forgiveness.
Jesus's Valuation of Women Today
Even though clear role distinction is seen in Christ’s choice of the apostles and in the exclusive type of work they were given to perform, no barriers need exist between a believer and the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of gender. Jesus demonstrated only the highest regard for women, in both his life and teaching. He recognized the intrinsic equality of men and women, and continually showed the worth and dignity of women as persons. Jesus valued their fellowship, prayers, service, financial support, testimony and witness. He honored women, taught women, and ministered to women in thoughtful ways.
As a result, women responded warmly to Jesus’s ministry. Have things changed too drastically today for us to see this same Jesus? Not at all. Modern women can find the same rich fulfillment in serving Christ as did the Marys and Marthas of Judea, or the Joannas and Susannas of Galilee.
PAGE 1 THRU 3 OF YOUR UNGODLY THREAD: The following links thus far in your ungodly thread is where you have slapped Jesus in the face and have sinned against Him because as an inferior woman you are not following the Jesus inspired passage of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 !
1 Timothy 2:11-14 Was written in 63AD. That is 33 years after Jesus was crucified and resurrected. It was written by Paul who never spoke or met the living Jesus.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
--> @Shila.Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,YOUR MOST BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE EVER: “So to say Jesus inspired the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible is not accurate.”WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY YOU STUPID BIBLE FOOL? HELLO, ANYBODY HOME TODAY?! OBVIOUSLY NOT!I am truly sorry that your alleged Bachelor's Degree has not taught you to understand simple Biblical deductions relative to Jesus being God, and therefore Jesus as god inspired all of the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible as I have shown you at your dumbfounded expense! But, what did we expect from an inferior woman like you that is totally Bible illiterate to say that Jesus did not inspire the Bible's writings?
“The Scriptures” are the words written in the Holy Bible. The Gospel referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings.
Gospels are Jesus Christ’s teachings or revelations. They recount Jesus’ life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection. It is primarily about Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection.
The Word of God is a sacred book that includes God’s message, known as the Scripture. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament. The Old Testament is a vital and enlightening component of Christian spirituality.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…." (2 Timothy 3:16)
You are quoting the Gospels referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament.
With the passage above that proves my point AGAIN, including 1 Thessalonians 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:20-21, over your Bible stupidity in saying that Jesus did not inspire the Bible writings, are you now calling Timothy a LIAR???!!!
You are quoting the Gospels referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures. The Holy Bible is the name given to the scripture, and the scripture in the scripture is known as the Old Testament.
Jesus H. Christ, this esteemed Religion Forum has NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER have seen such a Bible ignorant fool woman like you before, bar none! Then you have the audacity to continue to make yourself the continued Bible fool, why?
You don’t even know the difference between scriptures which is the Old Testament and the Gospels which referred to Jesus Christ and the apostles’ teachings and not scriptures.
You need more than a high school diploma to master the Bible.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
It truly must of been really easy to ummmm, play tricks on people back in the days.Like , Seeing a magic trick 2000 years ago must of blew peoples minds.Imagine the ( rope tied to door and sneakily moved trick two or three thousand years ago )With a slightest lack of morals you could go along way hey?.Think of allllllll the tricks you can do to get what you wanted back in the days.You just have to Pretend it is god.Like. Make the door move with rope.You fist say something like. ' God.' 'if you want me to do such and such. Give me a sign. 'You then pull the string attached to the door and it is as good as finalized.If you Pull a coin out from behind your wife's ear she is definitely a witch.HAS TO BE.What i am trying to say is.Magic tricks " worked " WAY WAY better a couple of thousand years ago.
None of the magic tricks you listed are found in the Bible. That alone suggests the people who put the Bible together were much more sophisticated.
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@Tarik
--> @ShilaHow does common sense become objective opinions?They don’t.
According you your earlier post, you said: expectation should be in regards to objective facts not subjective opinions, subjective opinions have nothing to do with common sense.
This implies common sense is not subjective opinions therefore it must be objective opinions.
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he correct question is this: what are the civilians doing to get shot?RM: No, that doesn't explore why they're doing it. Simple minds rarely get to root causes though, they tend to just lash out and blame (on both sides of politics). Greater minds seek to empathise and find long-term rehabilitations and solutions to big issues and only one side of politics does that, whether the right wing admits it or not.
So you agree Greater minds seek to empathise and find long-term rehabilitations and solutions to big issues.
Like what Shila proposed earlier.
“One solution would be to treat all officers as mentally ill. Let them all undergo treatment and be cleared.
It should be obvious only a mentally ill person would seek a career wearing a uniform and carrying a gun before a civilian population. Americans know if they are driven to kill they can join the US military. It’s legal and they will even be trained in the art of killing.”
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@Elliott
--> @StephenWell I am going to take it that you have actually read Isiah in its entirety? But you have failed to realise that this so-called prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in king Ahaz's lifetime and has nothing at all to do with a child to be born 700 years into the future.After all, what good would a child to be born 700 years into the future be to king Ahaz in his hour of need?I have said it before that this is the author of Matthew's gospel once again reaching for his trusty OT in a desperate attempt to link Jesus to the OT prophesies as being the one to come and prophesised about, and it is something he does often in the New Testament.The founders of Christianity appear to have accepted it as a prophecy that related to the coming of the messiah and it is that which matters. This prophesy is also perceived to relate to Jesus supposed virgin birth, which is also fundamental to a belief in the messianic claim.
Stephen is arguing about the timeline of Isaiah being fulfilled 700 years later.
But we know Daniel was written in 539BC and fulfilled 600 years later.
Nevertheless we are now arguing about prophesies and the fact that Jesus existed is no longer in question should be viewed as progress.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
--> @Shila.Shila, the most dumbfounded Bible fool that this forum has ever seen,YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE IGNORANCE IN YOUR WEAK POST #78: "You are quoting verses that came from Paul. Paul was not a disciple of Jesus nor did he meet or follow Jesus like the other disciples did."
"You are quoting verses that came from Paul. Paul was not a disciple of Jesus nor did he meet or follow Jesus like the other disciples did."
In fact Paul claims he saw a vision of Jesus on his way to Damascus where Jesus was admonishing him for persecuting Christians.
Jesus was crucified and resurrected and ascended to heaven in 30AD.
Paul claims he saw a vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 in 34 AD.
Acts 9:. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
Paul was the only one hallucinating and seeing visions. None of the men with Paul saw or heard anything.
SUMMARY Evidence is offered to suggest a neurological origin for Paul's ecstatic visions. Paul's physical state at the time of his conversion is discussed and related to theseecstatic experiences. It is postulated that both were manifestations of temporal lobe epilepsy.
Paul’s words were not corroborate by the other apostles. That is why Paul’s writings are called Pauline Theology.
Your alleged Bachelor's Degree that your parent's hard earned money paid for, is a waste of money and time since you cannot understand simple biblical logic 101, whereas it is NOT Paul's writings, BUT SIMPLY PUT FOR YOU ONCE AGAIN, it was Jesus' inspired words as shown below in these two passages!
How could Paul quote Jesus when Jesus was crucified in 30 AD.
Paul only discovered Jesus in a vision in 34AD on the road to Damascus. Paul never knew or met Jesus during Jesus’s life or ministry.
“And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13)
(1 Thessalonians 2:13) was written by Paul in 51AD that is 21 years after Jesus was crucified and resurrected.
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation, for the prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." (2 Peter 1:20-21)
(2 Peter 1:20-21) Was written in 67AD. That is 37 years after Jesus was crucified and resurrected.
Therefore, Jesus, as our serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, inspired the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible, period!!!! 2+2=4, oil and water don't mix, and your biblical knowledge is embarrassingly that of a 2 year old child, enough!
The JUDEO-Christian Bible was written before Jesus was born.
Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books. The New Testament as a whole quotes from 34 books of the Old Testament Books.
Remember jesus himself declared: Matthew 5:17 (“Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”).
So to say Jesus inspired the writings of the JUDEO-Christian Bible is not accurate. Jesus himself quoted from 24 different Old Testament books. The New Testament as a whole quotes from 34 books of the Old Testament Books.
SHILA, ENOUGH OF YOUR BIBLE IGNORANCE, CAN YOU GIVE US A BREAK AND TAKE SOME TIME OFF?
Your Bible ignorance is obvious. You just have a high school diploma and earn just 20,000$ annually. You are not qualified to study or preach the Bible.
Accept the historical Jesus and let the discussions continue.
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@Stephen
sidewalker: Jesus was a revolutionary change agent; and in fact he was a radical in every sense of the word.And what is it that you believe Jesus changed during the short time of his ministry?
Jesus changed Gods original mission.
From:
Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
To:
Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
The case for Historical Jesus is moving from historical facts to biblical facts.
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@Stephen
-> @ElliottA lot of work in the creation of the New Testament involved the fulfilling of Old Testament messianic prophecies. This is one of them and I would think an important one.Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”This to me this suggests Jesus existed as a real person and was reasonably well known by the name Jesus, so they were not able to change it to Immanuel.Well I am going to take it that you have actually read Isiah in its entirety? But you have failed to realise that this so-called prophecy was intended to be fulfilled in king Ahaz's lifetime and has nothing at all to do with a child to be born 700 years into the future.After all, what good would a child to be born 700 years into the future be to king Ahaz in his hour of need?I have said it before that this is the author of Matthew's gospel once again reaching for his trusty OT in a desperate attempt to link Jesus to the OT prophesies as being the one to come and prophesised about, and it is something he does often in the New Testament.
The prophecy was fulfilled in Isaiah’s time and Matthew saw the same prophecy fulfilled in Jesus during his time.
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken. Isaiah 7:14-16 (NASB)
Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.” Matthew 1:22-23
Jesus sums it up in Matthew.
Matthew 5:17 (“Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”).
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@Stephen
-->@SidewalkerSomeone as disturbingly radical as ChristWill you define for us -radical - in this context.
Those are after the fact responses. The Jews of his time found Jesus very unconventional. Jesus was a religious reformer who challenged the religious establishment.
What is even more convincing is the prophesies that foretold his coming.
All this builds the case for the Historical Jesus.
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@Stephen
@BrotherD.Thomas
--> @BrotherD.Thomas@ Public-Choice Great! Now, for you to save face within this forum, you will now provide the said Greek and Hebrew words TO EACH OF MY 12 GIVEN PASSAGES AS SHOWN IN JESUS' WORDS IN DEFAMING WOMEN IN MY POST #33 TO PROVE THEM WRONG! You may begin, we're waiting in a timely manner whereas the clock is ticking in your behalf! #60The 12 given passages that you refer to at #33 Brother D. go as follows.Brother D. Thomas wrote: #331. "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)2. “ But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman in man. For the man is not of the women; but the woman of the man.” (1Corinthians 11: 3,8 )3. “I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare.” (Ecclesiastes 7:26)4. "The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)5. "Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)6. "It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife." (Proverbs 21:9)7. "It is better to live in a desert land than with a quarrelsome and fretful woman." (Proverbs 21:19)8. “ It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.” (Proverbs 21:9)9. "A quarrelsome wife is as annoying as constant dripping on a rainy day. Stopping her complaints is like trying to stop the wind or trying to hold something with greased hands." (Proverbs 27:15-16)10. " Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire." (1 Timothy 2:9)11. "For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior." (Ephesians 5:23)12. "For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1 Corinthians 11:8-9).
How Jesus Viewed and Valued Women
Jesus's Countercultural View of Women
The place of women in the first-century Roman world and in Judaism has been well-documented and set forth in several recent books.1 Most frequently, women were regarded as second-class citizens.
Jesus’s regard for women was much different from that of his contemporaries. Evans terms Jesus’s approach to women as “revolutionary” for his era.2 But was his treatment of women out of character with Old Testament revelation, or with later New Testament practice? Other chapters in this volume will show that it was not.
Disciples Come in Two Sexes, Male and Female
For Christ, women have an intrinsic value equal to that of men. Jesus said, “. . . at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’” (Matt. 19:4; cf. Gen. 1:27). Women are created in the image of God just as men are. Like men, they have self-awareness, personal freedom, a measure of self-determination, and personal responsibility for their actions.
Scanzoni and Hardesty point out that “Jesus came to earth not primarily as a male but as a person. He treated women not primarily as females but as human beings.”3 Jesus recognized women as fellow human beings. Disciples come in two sexes, male and female. Females are seen by Jesus as genuine persons, not simply as the objects of male desire.4 Hurley believes “the foundation-stone of Jesus’s attitude toward women was his vision of them as persons to whom and for whom he had come. He did not perceive them primarily in terms of their sex, age, or marital status; he seems to have considered them in terms of their relation (or lack of one) to God.”5
Three Clear Examples
Examples of this even-handed treatment of women by Jesus are found in the four Gospels.
First, Jesus regularly addressed women directly while in public. This was unusual for a man to do (John 4:27). The disciples were amazed to see Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman at the well of Sychar (John 4:7-26). He also spoke freely with the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11).6 Luke, who gives ample attention to women in his Gospel, notes that Jesus spoke publicly with the widow of Nain (Luke 7:12–13), the woman with the bleeding disorder (Luke 8:48; cf. Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34), and a woman who called to him from a crowd (Luke 11:27–28). Similarly, Jesus addressed a woman bent over for eighteen years (Luke 13:12) and a group of women on the route to the cross (Luke 23:27-31).
A second aspect of Jesus’s regard for the full intrinsic value of women is seen in how he spoke to the women he addressed. He spoke in a thoughtful, caring manner. Each synoptic writer records Jesus addressing the woman with the bleeding disorder tenderly as “daughter” (references above) and referring to the bent woman as a “daughter of Abraham” (Luke 13:16). Bloesch infers that “Jesus called the Jewish women ‘daughters of Abraham’ (Luke 13:16), thereby according them a spiritual status equal to that of men.”7
Third, Jesus did not gloss over sin in the lives of the women he met. He held women personally responsible for their own sin as seen in his dealings with the woman at the well (John 4:16–18), the woman taken in adultery (John 8:10–11), and the sinful woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:44–50). Their sin was not condoned, but confronted. Each had the personal freedom and a measure of self-determination to deal with the issues of sin, repentance, and forgiveness.
Jesus's Valuation of Women Today
Even though clear role distinction is seen in Christ’s choice of the apostles and in the exclusive type of work they were given to perform, no barriers need exist between a believer and the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of gender. Jesus demonstrated only the highest regard for women, in both his life and teaching. He recognized the intrinsic equality of men and women, and continually showed the worth and dignity of women as persons. Jesus valued their fellowship, prayers, service, financial support, testimony and witness. He honored women, taught women, and ministered to women in thoughtful ways.
As a result, women responded warmly to Jesus’s ministry. Have things changed too drastically today for us to see this same Jesus? Not at all. Modern women can find the same rich fulfillment in serving Christ as did the Marys and Marthas of Judea, or the Joannas and Susannas of Galilee.
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@zedvictor4
-->@SidewalkerMore so, those that stand to gain advantage from perpetuating the myth.
You claimed earlier “Jesus/Joshua/Yeshua is/was a character recorded in historical narratives and we know roughly where he was said to have lived, there's no denying that.
Yep, as I stated Jesus/Joshua/Yeshua is/was a character recorded in historical narratives and we know roughly where he was said to have lived, there's no denying that.And that's about all one can say for certain.And yep 1632, that's the point I try to get across. All is made up after the event.
Now you are claiming those that stand to gain advantage from perpetuating the myth.
Should all history and historical narratives be banned in your opinion?
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@Tarik
But you didn’t just say “it is to me” you said “Does that really need explaining?” As if it’s such an objective common sense notion that the question shouldn’t even be asked in the first place meaning you expected that notion from me, but that expectation should be in regards to objective facts not subjective opinions, subjective opinions have nothing to do with common sense.
How does common sense become objective opinions?
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@Yassine
You appear to disagree with Best.Korea who created this thread.
I thought you would he happy someone is promoting Islam. But it appears you are more comfortable talking about other religions.
- On the contrary.
You are rather quiet on this subject. Are you on the side of the Iranian Morality police?
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@Greyparrot
--> @ShilaThe concept of M.A.D. does not apply here because Ukraine is not a nuclear equipped country.Correct, which makes Zelensky's campaign to invade Russia the most idiotic thing ever since Napoleon.Qǐ lái! Bú yuàn zuò nú lì de rén men!Bǎ wǒ men de xuè ròu,zhù chéng wǒ men xīn de cháng chéng!
Ukraine has the right to invade Russia just like Russia invaded Ukraine.
They just have to be given the advanced weapons to succeed.
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@ebuc
--> @BarneyThanks Barny I really needed that Monty Python vid. Great !!!
If it helps you get it right on Abortion, why not!!
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@bibliobibulimaniac
--> @ShilaI don't really see the point of explaining my username to you since you obviously have a good idea of what it means already, and are simply waiting to ridicule me for one thing or another.But you seem like the stubborn type so I'll go ahead.Username: BibliobibulimaniacBibliobibuli can loosely be translated as 'drunk on books' which allows you to infer that I am a book lover.Maniac, well I think you know what that means. If not, well, I'm not surprised.I honestly don't see the problem, and have no energy to argue further with you.If you continue this you are looking for a fight, which is silly. If you want to be silly, go ahead. Just don't expect the drunk on books maniac to join.
People generally get drunk in a bar or at social gatherings. But you get 'drunk on books'. You like to pile books in a stack so you can get 'drunk on books'. The only way to treat your addiction to alcohol is to get you to read those books instead of allowing you to 'drunk on books'.
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