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@rosends
You are right resurrection is a Christian concept.
By rejecting Jesus who preached resurrection the Jews clung on to Judaism.
actually, I said that it is explicit in Judaism (check post 97). If you read through this thread you will see that my position is that the claim isn't evidenced by the texts cited in the original post, not that the concept isn't in Judaism.
Among Orthodox Jews, belief in the resurrection is still generally understood as a literal prophecy that will come to fruition when the messiah comes.
So until then resurrection is a Christian concept.
Whereas in Judaism it is still an unfulfilled prophecy.
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@Stephen
"the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" said Rabbi David Kimhi - " therefore, with reference to this god whom you call Father, Son and Holy Spirit, - that part which you call the Father must be prior to that which you call Son, for if they were always coexistent would have to be called twin brothers.More over, if the Son is the Father what of Mary getting pregnant? Is this not an incestuous congregation? The Father has sex with the mother to conceive the Son who is also the Father.....so technically the Son, who is also the father, had sex with his mother"...It's all very - Oedipus, isn't it ?Oedipus c 450 BC, was a mythical Greek king of Thebes. A tragic hero in Greek mythology, Oedipus is believed to have fulfilled a prophecy (accidentally) that he would end up killing his father and marrying his mother, thereby bringing disaster to his city and family.
Luke 1 has a better explanation.
Luke 2:34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God.
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God.
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@Reece101
Why Don’t We See Religious People Debating in the Science and Nature Forum?
Debating science requires higher education in the sciences and objectivity which religious people are often ill equipped for.
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@Benjamin
What are the 2 best arguments for and against God? This is a question of subjective opinion, and I am curious to hear your thoughts whoever you are.
For God.
1. All religions say God is great.
Against God.
2. But disagree on which God.
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@secularmerlin
Undeniably many people suffer and it appears to be a given that some people suffer in ways they do not necessarilly deserve. Just as clearly not all suffering is the direct result of human actions.That in mind and most especially if you believe in some god(s) that can be defined as both all powerful and also loves us all how do you resolve the problem of suffering?
Genesis tells us God made suffering a part of human life because Adam and Eve chose to eat from the “tree of knowledge” and learn of the limitations of their creation rather than live in ignorance.
We have the knowledge to deal with suffering eg. Pain killers. The rest wil be dealt with in time.
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@aaaa
Why does God want to be worshipped?Is it ever talked about in the Bible?
There are many verses in the Bible about worshipping God.
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@Swagnarok
What attracted you to Catholicism?
Celibate priests and virgin birth.
So, you were intellectually convinced? Or do you like the aesthetic of Catholic churches and church services?
Celibate priests and virgin birth are commitments and beliefs that show how Catholics remain true to their beliefs.
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@rosends
Though I don't remind anyone of anything at every chance (for example, I have posted on this thread many times and have not reminded anyone of anything regarding my background in most situations so your blanket claim is wrong) when it is a relevant point I mention it.As to your other claim that my status does not make me "correct," I never claimed it did. However it does mean I have the requisite knowledge to represent the codified teachings of a larger group and not simply state a personal belief.Your statement that "I have insight into the text in question" does not answer what I asked.
You are right resurrection is a Christian concept.
By rejecting Jesus who preached resurrection the Jews clung on to Judaism.
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@Kadin
How do you distinguish a real religion from a fake one, i.e. a satirical joke (pastafarianism) or even cult? L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer who brought Scientology to the world, and Scientology has been fighting many legal religious freedom battles in defense of their practices and privacy. How do you, or do you not, distinguish someone like L Ron Hubbard from someone like Joseph Smith, Siddhartha Gautama or the prophet Mohammad? Is there something in particular that makes someone or something a "legitimate" religion or religious leader that deserves recognition, rights and respect, vs. something that makes it a clear joke or something not to be taken seriously?
Matthew 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
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@Swagnarok
What attracted you to Catholicism?
Celibate priests and virgin birth.
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@Timid8967
A question for atheists.How many of you have come from a religious background? And what was this background? And what convinced you to become an atheist?Was it a journey or an epiphany? Did it cause problems with your family or partner at the time?And are you still connected somehow with the people from your old religious affiliation?
Humans are hardwired to believe in God.
Atheists are no different. They start as believers till it reaches a breaking point and belief can no longer be sustained.
But by then their character and personalities have already been developed so except for their atheism they are still the same people, unless something traumatic happens to change them.
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@janesix
The ribcage is bigger, the liver is way too far up and too big, kidneys too far up. Looks very unproportional to my eyes. Eyes have bone i the back where they used to be hollow. It is just very "wrong". It is like there was an"upgrade" over night. Although it doesn't seem like an upgrade, more like a down grade to a more robotic, fake like appearance, there is no harmony to it, no beauty like there used to be.There are many other changes to the world as well, and we can get into those if you would like.
A lot of things appear to change when women reach menopause
Another change I'd like to mention is dozens of new words I keep finding for the last month or so. And I have always been good with English, there are just way too many new words lately, that are supposedly not new.Changes in Bible.Changes in world map (big, noticeable changes)
Those are other changes menopausal women notice.
One recommendation is to follow this simple guide that applied to tampons but are still applicable to women undergoing changes.
If it hurts go with a smaller size.
If it leaks go with a bigger size.
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@Mandrakel
The Museum of the Bible announced recently that at least five of its Dead Sea Scrolls, among the most valuable and historically significant items in its collection, are fakes.Does it make any difference, since the information contained in all the scrolls is fake anyway?
After Dead Sea Forgeries Exposed, How Do We Know the Scrolls in Israel Are Authentic?
All scroll fragments at the Museum of the Bible in Washington turn out to be fakes: Experts explain how we know the massive trove of scrolls held in Jerusalem is genuine
All scroll fragments at the Museum of the Bible in Washington turn out to be fakes: Experts explain how we know the massive trove of scrolls held in Jerusalem is genuine
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@Elliott
Expressing something humorous or sarcastic in a serious manner is a failure in communication.
Expressing a death wish to be executed for blasphemy with your tongue-in-cheek because you are British hardly makes it normal.
Framing your death wish with tongue-in-cheek as a British idiom because you are British reflects the desperation your country and people are experiencing.
There was no death wish but I agree there is a failure in communication.
The Tyndale English translation of the Bible exposed the limitations of English when compared to Hebrew and Greek. So the British are more than guilty of a failure in translation. It has exacerbated into a failure of communication.
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@Sum1hugme
Suppose you are talking to a Holocaust survivor that renounced their faith after their time in Auschwitz. How would you go about trying to reconvince them that there is a god, or that this god loves them?
Gods destroyed all life on earth by a flood, yet the Jews did not renounce their faith in the God of Abraham.
The Holocaust actually strengthened the faith of the Jews with a renewed determination to rebuild their Jewish homeland.
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@Timid8967
Why is the LDS considered a cult and not a proper Christian denomination?What are the primary points of similarity that put it in the Christian camp? And what are the points of doctrine which distinguish it from the traditional Christian position? And what are the unique and distinct perspectives of the Mormons that radically uplift it into weird territory?Please do not use this as a slanging board against the LDS. Use it as an opportunity to compare and contrast and analyze the Mormons and the veracity of its doctrines.
Mormons deny many of the central teachings of historical, traditional Christianity. This is no secret; one of the main doctrines of Mormonism is that God told their prophet, Joseph Smith, that all of the Christian denominations were wrong. Joseph believed he was called by God to restore the true religion of God, and that meant he had to call all the existing Christian churches (denominations) false.
If you call Christianity false, then it’s pretty strange to call yourself Christian. Yet, that’s what Joseph Smith did. He said that Mormonism replaces Christianity. However, he wanted to have his cake and eat it, too. He said that his religion believes in Jesus (although Mormon Jesus is very different from Christian Jesus), so his religion should be called Christian.
The argument continues almost 200 years since the founding of Mormonism. The Mormons say they are Christians (the only true Christians), and the Christians say they are non-Christian, or, at best, a “Christian cult.”
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@Elliott
My comment about being executed for blasphemy was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, but the only thing I would risk my life for would be my family and certainly not some belief or lack of, or any ideals.
That is an odd death wish to be executed for blasphemy with your tongue-in-cheek. Even risking that for your family would hardly be ideal.
A possible misunderstanding, the term “tongue-in-cheek” refers to a humorous or sarcastic statement expressed in a serious manner. I don’t know what nationality you are but I’m British and it may be a British idiom.
Expressing something humorous or sarcastic in a serious manner is a failure in communication.
Expressing a death wish to be executed for blasphemy with your tongue-in-cheek because you are British hardly makes it normal.
Framing your death wish with tongue-in-cheek as a British idiom because you are British reflects the desperation your country and people are experiencing.
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Science Agrees With The Bible:Earth's Water
Science agrees with the Bible that water causes floods.
Bible says God uses floods to punish his creation.
Twenty-one Reasons Noah’s Worldwide Flood Never Happened
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@janesix
Please ignore me when I get too strange.
Some common advice to women.
If it hurts switch to a smaller size.
It it leaks try a larger size.
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@Reece101
This is just a rough concept I was playing around with.The religion is called Triune of Fate.The Triune of Fate consists of three androgynous/hermaphrodite deities:The deity of mischief and joy, also known as the god of future.(Depicted as an adolescent).The deity of beauty and nature, also known as the god of present.(Depicted as middle aged).The deity of wisdom and reflection, also know as the god of past.(Depicted as elderly).To worship all three and to pay your respects, you have to at least once a week:
- Make someone laugh from joy.
- Give a compliment of sincerity.
- Improve ones life by giving advice.
Your religion demands we give up divine forgiveness, salvation, resurrection and the Trinity. How can we give up so much for so little?
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@Oldschoolpancakedummy
Oldschooldummy: Quite the opposite. I was raised anti Catholic, and my family is mostly devout Protestant.RationalMadman: Then I have like 0 understanding of how you became Catholic. I will go silent as I will not be able to respect it on a genuine level (taboo to say nowadays but guess what, it is a lie to respect a faith that makes 0 sense to you).
So Oldschooldummy went against your religious anti Catholic upbringing and devout Protestant family to convert to the Catholic faith.
Now you are here to go against everyone else.
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@Oldschoolpancakedummy
The Pope declaring Jesus’s life a failure and the cross a failure of God was saying the quiet part out loud.
If you'd like to dispute or discuss the context and explanation I put forward (which is obvious from the context of the quote itself) then I'd be more than happy to do so. If you're simply going to double down and keep repeating your erroneous assessment of what the holy father said, without even acknowledging any context or nuance, than I'm not interested.
You appear to agree with the Pope. “ I couldn't think of something that, at that moment, looked more like a failure.”
Hindsight is always 20/20, and we know the story doesn't end there. But from the disciples point of view? The one who you thought would be the redeemer of Israel, the promised, long awaited Messiah, is now dead on a cross at the hands of the Romans. I couldn't think of something that, at that moment, looked more like a failure.The Pope wasn't saying Christ's sacrifice failed to redeem us or something. I think you're reading into it.
The Pope declaring Jesus’s life a failure and the cross a failure of God was saying the quiet part out loud.
“And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS."
When desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH?
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@Oldschoolpancakedummy
Why did the Pope declare the cross a failure of God?
Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS? . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS."
When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH?
When you word it like that, with no context, it would sound blasphemous. When you actually posted the quote, it makes sense.Put yourself in the shoes of one of the apostles. Christ told them repeatedly what was going to happen to Him and they didn't get it. Now imagine, you're following this Man for three years, you see Him perform miracle after miracle, you've sacrificed everything, given up everything, and then, next thing you know, you see Him die the death of slaves and criminals.At that point in time, the cross looked like a profound failure. In the words of N.T Wright, if your Messiah got crucified you went out and got yourself a new Messiah.Hindsight is always 20/20, and we know the story doesn't end there. But from the disciples point of view? The one who you thought would be the redeemer of Israel, the promised, long awaited Messiah, is now dead on a cross at the hands of the Romans. I couldn't think of something that, at that moment, looked more like a failure.Obviously, we know that it doesn't end there. And obviously the Pope knows that as well.The Pope wasn't saying Christ's sacrifice failed to redeem us or something. I think you're reading into it.All that being said, the Pope is free to say whatever he'd like outside of his official teaching magisterium. Its not infallible
The Pope declaring Jesus’s life a failure and the cross a failure of God was saying the quiet part out loud.
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@Elliott
So wanting to stay alive keeps you honest about religion.
My comment about being executed for blasphemy was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, but the only thing I would risk my life for would be my family and certainly not some belief or lack of, or any ideals.
That is an odd death wish to be executed for blasphemy with you tongue-in-cheek. Even risking that for your family would hardly be ideal.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
You refuse to discus your immoral views.RegardsDL
You need to turn to porn to discover immoral views. Immoral views are banned on religious forums.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Superseded???You mean we were exterminated by those of your inquisitor ilk.You will not be enlightened by me if you continue to believe in the supernatural and miracles that allow you to abdicate your own responsibilities.RegardsDL
The Jews were not impressed with Jesus’s miracles. They needed a saviour who would rid them of the Romans.
John 10:32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
The Jews were proven right. Without the supernatural miracles the Jews could not overthrow the Romans. The Romans went on to crucify a Jesus, destroy the Holy Temple and slaughter the Jews.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Not a word on the poor morals.So many do not want to stop sinning.A good way to end here.RegardsDL
@Harikrish
Scriptures show Jesus broke all the 10 commandments. These ironies exist in the Bible.
The 10 commandments say.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
5. Honour your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.
Jesus broke many of the commandments, If not all!
1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
Jesus tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "
2. You shall not make idols.
Jesus made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
Jesus broke the sabbath.
Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).
5. Honour your father and your mother.
Jesus tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
6. You shall not murder.
Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
8. You shall not steal.
Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Jesus accused God of betraying and forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "
10. You shall not covet.
Jesus suffered from a messiah complex and coveted the title messiah/Christ/Anointed one.
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed:
"Father, The hour has come. Glorify your Son, That your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, The only true God, And Jesus Christ, Whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Scriptures tell us Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. . . . By the Romans. But the confusion continues.
Christians have waited for 2000 years for Jesus's return as he had promised without any success.
Preterists claims Christisns got it wrong, That Jesus returned in 70 AD.
Jehovah's Witnesses claim Jesus returned in 1874 or maybe 1914.
Others say Jesus could be the next thief who robs your house.
Revelation 16:15, Matthew 24:43, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 1 Thessalonians 5:4, 2 Peter 3:10 ESV - ("Behold, I am coming like a thief in the night! )
Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
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@Oldschoolpancakedummy
Newly confirmed Catholic. Would love any questions from anyone.
Why did the Pope declare the cross a failure of God?
Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS? . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS."
When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH?
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@GnosticChristianBishop
I cannot agree.Most religious are moral agents.Most do not and cannot walk their religious talk in most sane and just nations.Society would not allow it elsewhere in the free world.We are all natural mimics and slaved to our tribal natures.We crave fellowship and that can only be found in tribes and groups, regardless of the ism the group is mimicking.It is great that the God religions are dying and the religions that put man above God are gaining converts.Religions overall, as I see things, are all going Gnostic.RegardsDL
Gnosticism is a first century religion that was superseded by Christianity.
The Gospel of Thomas strips Jesus of all miraculous powers and reduces him to a religious teacher. Gnostics believe God is the domain of the enlightened. You don’t appear even remotely enlightened.
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@Elliott
Since you never participated in those religious debates suggests they were unreceptive to your debates.
What is plan B?
The same as plan A, which to put simply, is not to try and debate religion with those who may be uninterested, offended or execute me for blasphemy.
So wanting to stay alive keeps you honest about religion.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,
The only escape from this curse was to be born of a Virgin as in Jesus’s case.
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Yet Jesus taught the opposite.I gave you those quotes in----On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.RegardsDL
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jesus had no choice.God sent Jesus to be sacrifice for us.
Jesus had no choice and lamented on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Let's chat on the morals that would have you ignore what Jesus taught, and sin to be saved?On Jesus dying for you and Christians. Try to think in a moral way.It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.RegardsDL
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jesus had no choice.God sent Jesus to be sacrifice for us.
Jesus had no choice and lamented on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
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@Elliott
If you believe and have real objection with religion when it causes harm, is intolerant and tries to use coercion impose its beliefs on others, then debating it will only increase animosity in those whom you feel wouldn’t be receptive to them.
I don’t believe, and my objection with religion when it causes harm, is intolerant and tries to use coercion impose its beliefs on others seems reasonable unless one is a member of the Spanish Inquisition. And as I said, I don’t debate religion with those who would be unreceptive to that debate.
Since you never participated in those religious debates suggests they were unreceptive to your debates. What is plan B?
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Polytheist-Witch: Troll thread. One of the religion forum issues.
There would be no trolling if religion delivered on its promises.
Wilted: Why don't you list out it's problems and we can work together to fix the ones we agree with. I think banning troll threads would be silly, so we won't agree there, but how can I be of service?
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@FLRW
Elliott: I would like a secular one that allows for all religious beliefs or disbelief and the right to practice them.FLRW: I pray (to the simulation creators) that you find Humanism.
Allowing for all religious belief or disbelief and the right to practice them will only encourage endless debates and rejection.
Be careful what you wish for.
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@FLRW
The oldest painting of Jesus comes from the Dura Europos Synagogue in Syria and was painted 200 years after his death.
Jesus looked terrible on the cross all punctured and bleeding. Hate to think what he looked like 200 years after his death. Might be the reason why he didn’t want to be seen again and has been missing since.
Isaiah describes the suffering saviour.
Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
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@Elliott
I am an agnostic atheist and although I may not always respect people’s beliefs I try to respect their right to believe them. My only real objection with religion is when it causes harm, is intolerant and tries to use coercion impose its beliefs on others.I wouldn’t necessarily want an atheistic world and I feel such a word would be unrealistic as religion in some form has been with us from the dawn of humanity, but I would like a secular one that allows for all religious beliefs or disbelief and the right to practice them.I will debate religion with those open to debate and are willing to discus it, such as in a forum like this but I wouldn’t want to thrust my views on those who I feel wouldn’t be receptive to them.
If you believe and have real objection with religion when it causes harm, is intolerant and tries to use coercion impose its beliefs on others, then debating it will only increase animosity in those whom you feel wouldn’t be receptive to them.
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@zedvictor4
@PolyTo be honest, spaceships is the more reasonable explanation for the whole GOD thing.Though they seem to have forgotten the way back.Or have they.@Shila.Did Moses get lost too.
Moses did get lost. The journey to the promised land by foot from Egypt takes less than a month. It took Moses 40 years.
It is quite possible Moses was led by Aliens who didn’t know their way either.
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Polytheist-Witch: Threatening members with death could result in banning.
No church would excommunicate it’s members for burning a witch.
The Bible approves it.
Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
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@zedvictor4
I sure love the spiritual gift of Ice cream.We have a bloke who comes around in a pink van selling creamy fantasy treats.His name is Paul.And he has a lot of Greek pals.How's that for a miraculous coincidence?
Ice cream does keep your tongue cool so speaking in tongues is preserved. Ice cream also helps send the cool sensation up the persons butt you are licking.
You being Greek and having a friend named Paul and together receiving the spiritual gift of ice cream can only be a miraculous coincidence.
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@zedvictor4
Rejecting the Gospel as a collection of eyewitness accounts of Jesus from his generation leaves you with nothing but speculation.
Exactly.
Conversely, academia speculation is also fuelling rejection of the Gospels as a collection of eyewitness accounts of Jesus from his generation.
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@Reece101
Is original sin an example of Kin punishment?If so, the wiki article of kin punishment needs to be updated.Original wiki entry: Kin punishment is the practice of punishing the family members of someone accused of a crime, either in place of or in addition to the perpetrator. It refers to the principle of a family sharing responsibility for a crime committed by one of its members, and is a form of collective punishment. Kin punishment has been used by authoritarian states as a form of extortion, harassment, or persecution. Countries that have practiced kin punishment include pre-Christian European cultures, Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and non-Western cultures including China, Japan, and North Korea.“
The Bible says so.
Deuteronomy 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,
The only escape from this curse was to be born of a Virgin as in Jesus’s case.
Finally, the virgin birth is essential because it means Jesus did not inherit the curse of depravity that clings to Adam’s race. Jesus was made like us in every way except for sin (Heb. 4:15; 7:26-27). Every human father begets a son or daughter with his sin nature. This is the way of the world after the fall. Sinners beget sinners (Ps. 51:5). Always. If Joseph was the real father of Jesus, or Mary had been sleeping around with Larry, Jesus is not spotless, not innocent, and not perfectly holy. And as result, we have no mediator and no salvation.
The virgin birth is part of what Christians have believed in all times and in all places, and it is a key element in what it means for the incarnation to be “for us and for salvation.” We ignore the doctrine at our peril; we celebrate it to our benefit and to God’s glory.
The virgin birth is part of what Christians have believed in all times and in all places, and it is a key element in what it means for the incarnation to be “for us and for salvation.” We ignore the doctrine at our peril; we celebrate it to our benefit and to God’s glory.
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Polytheist-Witch: I'm just glad with all the walking he had to do Noah wasn't flat-footed.
If you knew your Bible, it was Moses that walked for 40 years leading the Jews out of Egypt to the promised land.
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Polytheist-Witch: Basically what everyone's written here is I'm an atheist because I didn't believe the Bible so you are all basically Christians. Because only Christians care about the Bible. No efforts been made to investigate any other religion, gods or spiritual concepts. Lazy m************.
Witches were burnt. Inviting witches to investigate other religions, Gods or spiritual concepts would be the lowest point in human development.
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Polytheist-Witch: Nobody knows what Jesus was because nobody that's wrote that book had anything to do with Jesus. If he even existed. You know what sketchy calling yourself an atheist and then spending about 20-30 minutes writing a five part post more than once about a book you think is fiction.
Jesus is kinda sketchy.
Bones then goes on to sketch Jesus using some 60 verses from the Bible which are quotes of Jesus’s own words showing just how sketchy Jesus was.
Tradesecret could not address even one of Bones sketchy details of Jesus.
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@Bones
God and Hitler.Why did an omnipotent God allow 6 million Jews to die, while knowing that many of those victims were whispering begging Him in their final moments.
For almost as long as the Jewish nation has existed, it has been persecuted and forced to wander from land to land: starting with slavery in Egypt, to the destruction of both temples in Jerusalem, to the Crusades, the pogroms, the Holocaust, and finally, modern day anti-Semitism.
The Jews were exiled from their homeland by the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Medians, the Greeks, and now under Western rule (Holocaust)
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@oromagi
The Bible is accepted as inerrant by some 2 billion Christians.
That's any almost exclusively modern American view.Nobody would believe that the bible was inerrant in Roman times because they could see how Emperors edited the text to suit their politics.Nobody would believe that the bible was inerrant in the Middle Ages because each copy was hand-written over years and any literate monk could see the difference between one bible and the next.Believing that bible is unchanging depends on the consistency that comes with the printing press. And even then, the next few generations of people could see how radically different the King James Version was from the Coverdale version, or the Lutheran from the Vulgate. As it become common for Europeans to speak more than one language, it became easy to see the radical differences between Greek and French Bibles, Latin and German, etc.Only in America where the King James Version dominated for centuries would it possible to go from place to place and find a consistent version of the Bible, and so Americans are really the only place where people really think the Bible (mostly the KJV) is inerrant and consistent over time and place.Half of all Christians are Catholic and Catholics are not taught that the bible is in inerrant. Gallup estimates fewer than 17% of all Christians believe the Bible is the literal truth.
The "doctrine of the inerrancy of scripture"held by the Catholic Church, as expressed by the Second Vatican Council, is that "The books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation."
Catholic Church.The Second Vatican Council authoritatively expressed the Catholic Church's view on biblical inerrancy. Citing earlier declarations, it stated: "Since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation." The Council added: "Since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words."
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@Kadin
Nontrinitarian Christians do not believe in the trinity, they do not believe that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equal as one.These folks believe that only the Father is without beginning, that the Father is greater than the Son in all things, that the Son had a beginning, and he was brought forth at a certain point as "the firstborn of all creation" and "the only-begotten son." They do recognize Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and Redeemer, and believe that after his ascension to Heaven he resumed his pre-human identity, but exalted to God's right hand until the last days.They do not believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual person, but rather refers to God's power or character depending on the context. They believe the Holy Spirit is God's "active force" that He uses to accomplish His will. Judaism and Islam also reject the concept of the trinity. How would you describe or defend the trinity to these people, and nontrinitarian Christians in particular?
The trinity as one God exists as or in three equally divine “Persons”, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is not supported anywhere in the Bible.
Jesus always prayed to the Father
Jesus said the Holy Spirit would come only “after” he left.
John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness,because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
But the trinity or threesome that produced Jesus is well documented in Luke.
Luke 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
The Holy Spirit or sperm donor came on Mary. The Most High overshadowed (overpowered) Mary and held her down. Mary was gang raped and the threesome or trinity produced Jesus.
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@FLRW
See: "Why the Ontological Proof of God's Existence is Bullshit" (Copyright © 2010-01-21Duke Physics Department)
The article is full of suppositions.
Proving something is Bullshit should be rather straightforward.
Instead we get a confession.
“Note that I do not attempt to rationally prove this.
Nevertheless, if you (dear reader) actually exist, and are reading these words in a continuous perception of light, and touch, and sound, and taste, and smell, and are thinking about them, and hold them in your mind, you exist as you are experiencing your existence, your thoughts, your total Universe at every instant of the now.
This is beyond all need for rational proof, as you will readily see the first time you are whacked in the head by an overripe banana so that the pulp oozes down into your face and makes you look and feel all silly and not at all the person you have carefully clothed yourself in flesh and possessions to be and - for an instant - precisely centers you in the here and now of your own existence, naked even of your body.”
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@Bones
Jesus is kinda sketchy.
Bones then goes on to sketch Jesus using some 60 verses from the Bible which are quotes of Jesus’s own words showing just how sketchy Jesus was.
Tradesecret could not address even one of Bones sketchy details of Jesus.
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