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@Stephen
Jesus , it has been agreed by some Christians that Jesus resurrected as flesh and blood man.So a recent question I have posed is- how did Jesus enter the closed and locked room?"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”John 20:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A19-20&version=NIVHow did he do it?
According to the JW Jesus appeared to the disciples in the spirit and not in flesh and blood.
Do you actually read the threads that you comment on?
Regardless of what JW , you or the reverend Tradsecret have to say, Jesus makes it quite plain that he returned the same way he went, as a flesh and blood fully grown human with wounded flesh .
Stephen wrote: #29Jesus said"36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:36- 39
So I am right, Jesus appeared before the disciples as a spirit.
Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luke 4:Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.
After Jesus’ Resurrection, Was His Body Flesh or Spirit?
The Bible’s answer
The Bible says that Jesus “was put to death in the flesh but made alive [resurrected] in the spirit.”—1 Peter 3:18; Acts 13:34; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 5:16.
Jesus’ own words showed that he would not be resurrected with his flesh-and-blood body. He said that he would give his “flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” as a ransom for mankind. (John 6:51; Matthew 20:28) If he had taken back his flesh when he was resurrected, he would have canceled that ransom sacrifice. This could not have happened, though, for the Bible says that he sacrificed his flesh and blood “once for all time.”—Hebrews 9:11, 12.
If Jesus was raised up with a spirit body, how could his disciples see him?
Spirit creatures can take on human form. For example, angels who did this in the past even ate and drank with humans. (Genesis 18:1-8; 19:1-3) However, they still were spirit creatures and could leave the physical realm.—Judges 13:15-21.
After his resurrection, Jesus also assumed human form temporarily, just as angels had previously done. As a spirit creature, though, he was able to appear and disappear suddenly. (Luke 24:31; John 20:19, 26) The fleshly bodies that he materialized were not identical from one appearance to the next. Thus, even Jesus’ close friends recognized him only by what he said or did.—Luke 24:30, 31, 35; John 20:14-16; 21:6, 7.
When Jesus appeared to the apostle Thomas, he took on a body with wound marks. He did this to bolster Thomas’ faith, since Thomas doubted that Jesus had been raised up.—John 20:24-29.
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@Tradesecret
The Christian understanding of God is that God is ONE. He is Trinity. ONE God, yet THREE persons. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Christian view is Jesus is not God the Father. They are separate persons. Hence most of your arguments are actually "arguments of straw".
Jesus said he too had a father and a God.
John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Furthermore, I have explained to you before that Jesus NEVER blamed God for his crucifixion. In fact the Crucifixion was planned before the beginning of the world and the THREE persons of the TRINITY were in agreement with it.
Jesus lamented on the cross God had betrayed and forsaken him just as he had done to David.
Matthew 37:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
Also we know that Jesus knows the Scriptures.
Jesus was mostly clueless. When asked when he would return what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” He could not answer.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Matthew 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Only God knew and Jesus admitted he was not God.
clearly - at least in my view - illustrates he knows he is an instrument of prophecy - and is expressly declaring that even as he died on the cross.
Matthew 37:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
Jesus was not an instrument of prophecy. Jesus was expressly declaring God had betrayed and forsaken him on the cross
jesus even denied he was heir to the Davidic kingdom.
John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
Jesus never claimed he was God. He said he was sent by God to save the Jews. But we know that failed. Jesus said he would return 2000 years ago. But that never happened.
During his life on earth Jesus was called a liar and a lunatic.
1. Liar.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work," said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God."
2. Lunatic.0
Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, "He is out of His mind."
John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and insane. Why would you listen to Him?"
3. They demanded Jesus be crucified.
Luke 23:21 but they kept shouting, "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!"
4. The Romans crucified Jesus.
John 19:23 When they crucified him, the Roman soldiers took his clothes and divided them up four ways, to each soldier a fourth. But his robe was seamless, a single piece of weaving ...
5. Even Jesus blamed God for forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"
6. Jesus's call to his disciples failed too. No one followed Jesus or joined him in his crucifixion. Therefore no one was saved or worthy of Jesus.
Matthew 10:38 and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.
7. His discipiles all tried to save their own lives and did not want to lose it for Jesus.
Luke 17:33 Whoever tries to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it.
8. The one time offer for salvation ended with Jesus. Jesus has not returned to make a similar offer to future generations. But God has sent another prophet Mohammad in his place.
9. Jesus spoke to his generation. Repeating his words does not carry the same promise. His promise ended on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"
10. Even the Pope declared the cross was a failure of God.
Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U.S. tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, we need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS ... and His LIFE! humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS"
When you don"t understand something, when desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH
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@zedvictor4
For sure.Witchery is just madey up shit, like all the other madey up shit.And the crowds used to love the pseudo erotic frisson of a good burning.Westerners pretend not to be interested in that sort of stuff these days.But certain people away out East somewhere, still get a buzz from a good public execution.
Witches could just misdiagnosed mood swings some women go through during their monthly periods.
Because these mood swings are predictable they are define by the hysteria common to this group.
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Whites are the actual Jews
Ashkenazic Jews are the Jews of France, Germany, and Eastern Europe and their descendants. The adjective "Ashkenazic" and corresponding nouns, Ashkenazi (singular) and Ashkenazim (plural) are derived from the Hebrew word "Ashkenaz," which is used to refer to Germany. Most American Jews today are Ashkenazim, descended from Jews who emigrated from Germany and Eastern Europe from the mid 1800s to the early 1900s. The pages in this site are written from the Ashkenazic Jewish perspective.
Today Ashkenazim constitute more than 80 percent of all the Jews in the world, vastly outnumbering Sephardic Jews. In the early 21st century, Ashkenazic Jews numbered about 11 million. In Israel the numbers of Ashkenazim and Sephardim are roughly equal, and the chief rabbinate has both an Ashkenazic and a Sephardic chief rabbi on equal footing. All Reform and Conservative Jewish congregations belong to the Ashkenazic tradition.
So the majority of Jews today are descendants of European women converting to Judaism.
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@Stephen
According to Secret Mark Jesus was gay.
See link.
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@Stephen
Jesus , it has been agreed by some Christians that Jesus resurrected as flesh and blood man.So a recent question I have posed is- how did Jesus enter the closed and locked room?"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”John 20:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A19-20&version=NIVHow did he do it?
According to the JW Jesus appeared to the disciples in the spirit and not in flesh and blood.
So a locked door or a sealed tomb would not be a problem for a spirit.
Thomas even confirm Jesus appeared as a Ghost/Spirit. He still has the cuts and flesh sounds where he was pierced with nails and a spear. But he was not bleeding.
Jesus Appears to Thomas
John 20:24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
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@Tradesecret
No one makes Jesus God. Jesus is and always has been God. He is the Son from eternity.
Christians quote verse from the Bible that suggests Jesus is God even though Jesus never said he was God.
1. John 10:30, "I and the Father are one."
There are those who declare that God the Father and Jesus Christ, are the same person. They contend that Jesus is merely a manifestation or development or role of the Father. The Bible, however, says that the Father and Jesus are distinct from each other. They are not the same person. There are several ways in which the Bible illustrates this truth.
1. The Father Sent The Son
Another distinction we have between the Father and the Son is that the Father is the sender and Jesus, the Son, is the one sent.
Jesus said that it was God the Father who sent Him into the world.
"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work" (John 4:34).
He emphasized it again
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me (John 5:30).
Jesus made it clear the Father had set Him apart and sent Him into the world.
What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'? (John 10:36).
Jesus said that His words came from the Father.
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it (John 12:49)
The Apostle Paul also testified that the Father sent the Son into the world:
But when the fulness of the time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law (Galatians 4:4).
2. The Father Testified To The Son
The Bible speaks of the Father testifying of the Son:
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. There is another who bears witness of me, and I know that the witness which he witnesses of me is true . . . And the Father himself, who sent me, has testified of me (John 5:31,32,37).
In this passage, Jesus is speaking to the religious leaders. He says that He is not the only one who is testifying concerning Himself. Jesus mentions the testimony of John the Baptist and the testimony of God the Father. Jesus contrasts His testimony from that of the Father showing that they are two distinct persons. The Father provides additional testimony to the character of Jesus.
3. Jesus Prayed To The Father
The two divine persons-God the Father and God the Son-exist eternally and distinctly in an interpersonal relationship. For example, in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus did not pray to Himself, but to the Father. In Jesus' prayer to God the Father, the clear distinction is made between the two of them. He prayed.
I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in me through their word; that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. "The glory which you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as we are one; I in them and you in me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you have loved me (John 17:20-23).
4. There Was Mutual Knowledge And Love Between The Father And The Son
Scripture speaks of the mutual knowledge and love that God the Father and God the Son have for one another. Jesus said.
All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal him (Matthew 11:27).
Jesus also said.
The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand (John 3:35).
5. Jesus Did The Father's Will
Jesus did the will of the Father not His own will.
Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father?' "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own initiative, but the Father abiding in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves (John 14:8-11).
Jesus did not say He was the Father but rather He was the one who perfectly represented the Father. However Jesus testified that God the Father was with Him in a mystical way.
6. No One Can Get To God The Father Except Through Jesus The Son
Jesus told people to believe in Him.
Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me (John 14:1).
The Bible also makes it clear that one cannot know God the Father apart from Jesus
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; from now on you know him, and have seen him" (John 14:6).
Paul wrote.
For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human (1 Timothy 2:5).
Summary
It is the teaching of Scripture that God the Father is a distinct person from Jesus Christ, God the Son. This is demonstrated in a number of ways. The Father sent Jesus the Son to earth. The Father also gave a testimony to the Son. We find that Jesus, the Son, prayed to the Father There is also mutual love and knowledge between God the Father and Jesus the Son. Jesus, the Son, always did the Father's will not His own will. One cannot know God the Father without knowledge of Jesus the Son. These truths make it clear that the Father and Son are two distinct Persons.
2. John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
According to the Bible there were many before Abraham. Adam to Noah.
3. John 10:33 33 The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God."
The people were not impressed with Jesus's miracles and found him to be a blasphemous liar and a lunatic.
4. John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
That is John speaking about Jesus. Those are not the words of Jesus. Many things were said about Jesus like he was a madman, demon possessed.
Mark 3:21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?" - ...
We know the people rejected Jesus and the Romans crucified him. This would not have happened if Jesus was God. No one would have dared to mock, beat, ridicule and crucify God who is the supreme power.
The people of Jesus's time knew the power of God.
1. God sent the plagues to Egypt.
2. God destroyed the world with a flood.
3. God destroyed the Canaanites, Ammonites and Moabites.
Jesus on the cross even blamed God for his failures.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").
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@Lit
Christianity teaches that Jesus came when the fullness of time had come. What made the days of Jesus most suitable for his advent?
Remember Jesus was a jew. Jews were not known for using or applying astrology to pick the most appropriate time that aligned with the planets.
The Magi Visit the Messiah
Matthew 2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi[a] from the east came to Jerusalem 2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
King Herod was shocked it took Magi from the east to apply astrology to determine the time and place of Jesus’s birth.
Jesus therefore did not know when was an appropriate time to come.
Jesus picked a bad time because Israel was under Roman occupation.
The Jews were desperate for a messiah to deliver them from the Roman occupation.
This might explain why Jesus’s ministry only lasted 3 years. The Jews ran out of patience when Jesus allowed the Roman’s to beat and ridicule him. That was not the messiah they were promised.
This might also be the reason Jesus did not commit to a return date. His knowledge of astrology never improve during his first visit.
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@Tradesecret
When will Jesus return?
Same questions asked by the disciples in Matthew 24.
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
It depends how you interpret the term "coming"?The Lord comes - or is coming is an OT reference to judgment. Not necessarily to a literal appearance or return.Many passages in the OT and the NT refer to the Lord's coming - in judgment and there are many other passages that refer to the return of the Lord Jesus.The two are not necessarily the same thing. And when the two are conflated - then things get messy.The same as when people talk of the last days or the latter days or the last Day.What particular day are they are talking of - in relation to what particular event or covenant?I suggest that Jesus' judgment - his coming occurred in AD 70 - at the destruction of Jerusalem. But I would not relate that to his second coming - which is talking about his return to collect his bride.The covenant between Israel and God - came to an end definitely at AD 70. It started to end at Jesus' death. Between Jesus' death and the destruction of Jerusalem is approximately 40 years - one generation. This is what Jesus referred to in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 22. Jesus came - in judgment at Jerusalem within that generation - just as he predicted.It was not a literal coming - it was a judgment coming - and is similar to nature to every time the Lord came in the OT with many judgments over many nations including Israel.I think his second return however will not occur yet. I think he is going to return to collect his bride. The church. When she is fully grown up and mature - and ready to be a wife. At the moment the church acts like a petulant child or teenager. She doesn't know whether she is Arthur or Martha. She is all over the place - like a scatty teenager in puberty. Not yet ready to meet her Lord and Husband.
Jesus makes it clear why he will return the second time.
John 14:2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
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@Greyparrot
Throne of God.Does this imply God has a butt?
It implies God used a toilet and even showed his glorified backside to Moses.
Exodus 33:18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”
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Polytheist-Witch: I don't know, why are you a spam posting anti semite?
Polytheist-Witch: Why are you blocking Shila but yet responding the my posts?
Jews on a Christian forum are the ones out to discredit Christianity.
Ancient Jews never contributed anything to science, Medicine, mathematics or even astrology. The wise men (Magi) were from the east that identified Jesus. “Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.”
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@Elliott
I’m not sure of the point you are making regarding the Jews difficult interpretation of the Old Testament because it was written in Hebrew, as that was and still is the language of the Jewish people and they wrote the Old Testament.
Biblical Hebrew was the spoken language of the Jews for over 1,000 years. But when the Romans destroyed the second Jewish Temple in 70 CE, Hebrew began to die out. It was essentially completely dead 65 years later in 135, after the failure of the Bar Kokhba Revolt, when Roman emperor Hadrian expelled, enslaved, or killed most of Israel’s remaining Jews — the final native Hebrew speakers. The remaining Jews left in the Land of Israel continued using Hebrew in the study of the Torah, but they only used it as a written language.
So not only did the Jews kill their messiah Jesus. They allowed the Romans to destroy their temple and language
I think the reason for the high number of Christians is that Christianity actively seeks converts and has often taken harsh measures against those who were unwilling to convert. Judaism on the other hand does not seek out converts.
Hard for Jews to seek converts to Judaism when they rejected Jesus and suffered antisemitism for over 3000 years.
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Yes you are.
Polytheist-Witch: Why are you blocking Shila but yet responding the my posts?
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@Stephen
And like I have pointed out above already: #44 Muslims may have a case when pointing to the Old Testamant, which is nothing more than a book of war and conquest as is the Quran.
And I gave the valid reason Muslims point to the Old Testament.
FM! Is that all you are good for is repetitive posting causing others to remind you what they too have ALREADY said. I have more or less agreed with your comment you clown.😂😂
There are more than one member following my posts and arguments. Some of what I do are for their benefit. It is designed to encourage a larger participation.
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@SkepticalOne
I back my arguments with scriptural evidence. We have the evidence why not use it?
Your claim was that virgin births are rare because of contraceptives, anal sex, and homosexuality. Substantiatiation is not found for this claim in the Bible or anywhere else.
The Bible is clear Mary was a virgin and was not on any birth control pills or contraceptives.
It is only after women heard virgin births are possible as is salvation through Jesus that virgins seeing the fate of Jesus a suffering saviour that virgin birth control became a choice. Other methods and options developed with time.
They all worked to stop Jesus returning as he promised in his preferred method of virgin birth conception.
White Christian men are seeking to abolish all forms of virgin birth controls including sex to improve the odds of Jesus returning.
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@Pendragon524
I am about ten days out from the closing of the voting period for my debate on God's existence - "There is no God." If you have time to read through it and vote on it, that would be much appreciated!
You have been quite successful attacking the God of Intelligence_06’s creation outside of the Bible.
Even when Christian agree about God they identify their beliefs spread over 30,000 Christian denominations.
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Polytheist-Witch: Atheists forums are mainly about God and the lack of evidence for God.
But theists forums are more about contradictions in the Bible and the Jewish Covenant with God.
Where does that leave the Gentiles?
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Polytheist-Witch: So am I. I don't worship gods I think are shitty personalities.
Why do you things gods are shitty personalities?
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@Elliott
To be fair the Gospel teachings of Jesus are mostly benign but Christians will also reference the Old Testament to reinforce their doctrines, these are not always so benign.2 Chronicles 15:12-1312 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, 13 but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.Exodus 22:1818 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
The Jews were given the difficult burden to interpret God’s word in the Old Testament. The Old Testament was in Hebrew. Thus might explain why the Old Testament did not help or work for the Jews. They kept getting it wrong and earning the wrath of God.
It did not help Jesus either when he quoted from 24 Old Testament books.
But the New Testament and the Gospels was written in Greek which was less ambiguous which is why we have 2 billion Christians today but only a fraction or 14 million Judaism followers.
Here we see prophets were treated as witches.
Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”
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@Benjamin
Some christians love to use the Bible to condemn the LGBT community. There are people who think that gay people are worse than everyone else - despite mainstream theology stating that all humans are born sinners by default. Apart from the logical fallacies at play, the behavior born from these views are outright unethical. The result of Christian demonization is often unjustifiable social sanctions, hate and stigma leading to depression and suicide among gays and others.
Christians should not condemn gay people because the more gays we have the more women will end up as virgins not having enough sex to go around.
With more virgins around will only facilitate the return of Jesus whose preferred method of conception is virgin birth.
But the Bible does discourage men trying to get men pregnant.
Lev 18:22 “’Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable
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@Tradesecret
Islam does not irk me. I just happen to think it is wrong and dangerous and unhelpful for those who want truth and salvation. Islam in that sense is a religion that denies the deity of Christ. It denies his resurrection. It denies the Trinity. Each of which are clearly expressed in the Bible.
The Jews of his time rejected Jesus and demanded Jesus be crucified.
Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”
Peter denied Jesus 3 times and Judas even betrayed Jesus.
Jesus prayed for the safety of his disciples.
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
But we know they were all eventually killed.
What good was the resurrection?
The Romans went on to destroy theHoly Temple, destroy Jerusalem and slaughter the Jews the very people Jesus was sent to save.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
All this happened after the resurrection and after Jesus claimed he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
The only mention of the trinity or threesome is in Luke 1.
Luke 1:34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God.
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God.
The Holy Spirit came on Mary, God overpowered Mary. And Mary was the only virgin in the room. The trinity was a threesome gang rape which produced Jesus.
Muslims do not accept the virgin birth of Jesus. They cannot justify gang rape of a virgin.
Muslims do not accept the resurrection of Jesus.
Because Jesus would never have allowed the Romans to slaughter the Jews the very people he was sent to save.
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@Lunar108
Why hasn't a "god" ever healed an amputee?I've just copied this question from facebook and I'm just asking for help here .
Jesus preached self amputation and the justification for it. So it would be a contradiction to heal amputees after they followed his commandment.
Matthew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
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@Stephen
And like I have pointed out above already: #44 Muslims may have a case when pointing to the Old Testamant, which is nothing more than a book of war and conquest as is the Quran.
And I gave the valid reason Muslims point to the Old Testament.
Muslims have a valid reason for claiming the Abrahamic covenant and promise.
Ishmael was a son of Abraham, born of Sarah’s maidservant Hagar in an attempt to bring into the world the son God had promised to Abraham and Sarah. Later, Isaac was born to Abraham and Sarah, and Hagar and Ishmael were driven away because of Ishmael’s attitude toward Isaac (Genesis 21:9–10, 14). But God still had plans for Ishmael.
God promised Hagar that Ishmael, as a son of Abraham, would become a great nation (Genesis 21:17–18). The fulfillment is recorded in Genesis 25:12–18—Ishmael had twelve sons who became great rulers and eventually a nation of people. That came about in this way: Hagar, who was Egyptian herself, found a wife from Egypt for her son, and Ishmael settled in the desert of Paran (Genesis 21:21). Ishmael’s descendants “settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt as you go toward Ashur” (Genesis 25:18). The Bible lists Ishmael’s sons as Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah (verses 13–15).
So it was Ishmael that became a great nation even as Isaac flounder and the Abrahamic Covenant transferred from the Jews to the Muslims.
Matthew 21:43 I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce the proper fruit.
Fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise.
A simple comparison of covenant transfer.
Arabs own land 650 times the size of Israel.
Arabs own 2/3 of the worlds oil reserves.
Muslim population 1.9 billion.Jews total only 14 million.
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🤣🤣🤣 Morons.
witchcraft are mostly associated with witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Witch hunt mostly target witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Calling witches Morons would hardly justify burning them.
😂😂😂😂
A cartoonish response still isn’t justification for burning witches.
🤣😂🤣 it gets stupider each response.
You are being too self critical Polytheist-Witch. They are just the same dumb cartoons.
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@Elliott
Christianity maintains its authority because that authority is a God who is supposedly infallible; this makes it a useful political tool and one that gives it an advantage over secular authoritarian regimes, as you can’t question an infallible authority. All you need do is find a passage in the Bible that can be interpreted in such a way that it supports your agenda and then claim that it is God’s will and as your audience consists mainly of authoritarian followers they will submit to whatever you want under the belief that their God requires it.
So you agree the passages I quote supports my arguments.
Jesus too quoted from 24 different Old Testament books.
Matthew 4:19 Then He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.”
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@Stephen
You are being disingenuous.Stop trying to make out that these two so called saints had established a full fledged established "church" with a congregation made up off the masses in Rome, they didn't.They may well have founded a underground 'movement' which went against Rome. The persecution of Christians was rife at the time these two lived and Rome was still at war with the Jews. Jerusalem hadn't even fell at the time c 63-64 bc. Rome had it own gods and no way were they ready to add another "god" to their own established pantheon , especially a Jew god .
According to Irenaeus, a 2nd-century Church Father, the church at Rome was founded directly by the apostles Peter and Paul.
So an apologist writing about 150 years after these two had been executed means exactly what? Like I have already said, these two may well have "founded" an underground early Christian movement in Rome and they, or others later, called it a "church. But it was not the established organisation that you are attempting to make it out to have been ..... Christians /Christianity wasn't accepted by Rome until the Battle of the Milvian Bridge c312. Which to my mind makes 248 years AFTER Paul & Peter were executed for crimes against Rome.
The church was established in Rome. the church at Rome was founded directly by the apostles Peter and Paul.
Over time, the Christian church and faith grew more organized. In 313 AD, the Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, which accepted Christianity: 10 years later, it had become the official religion of the Roman Empire.
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@rosends
Today (outside of Jerusalem) is the holiday of Purim. We celebrate the events retold in the Scroll of Esther and the miraculous saving of the Jewish population of Persia/Medea from the machinations of our enemies.Freedom from oppression and the concern that there are those who collude to destroy us are still current concerns so we remind ourselves that faith, combined with action is the path we must follow.Wishing happiness and peace to all.
Christians celebrate Passover which is a Jewish holiday.
Both Jews and Christians celebrate the crucifixion of Jesus who was crucified during Passover.
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@Yassine
! I love destroying opponents. However, I wanna try something different instead.
Muslims wanting to destroy their opponents is hardly new or radical.
Now Muslims trying something different instead might be one for the record.
Is it because Islam is reaching equality with Christianity in numbers, so slitting the throats of infidels is less necessary?
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@rosends
Someone did try to call Jews out for the same thing and I said that it was not the case. I was told that, despite my being Jewish and in a position to be informed about these things, I am wrong about my own beliefs. Go figure.
Jews only stoned adulterers. They did not consider Homosexuality adultery.
But Jews are less informed about Jesus or even wrong in their beliefs and reasons for rejecting Jesus. Yes go figure!!
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Polytheist-Witch: What constitutes an organized religion?
Religious tax exemptions!!! If the IRS believe you are running an organized religion they will offer you tax exemptions.
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@janesix
Who laid down with the lamb?what animal?
It had to be turkeys.
Roast turkeys go well with lamb.
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🤣🤣🤣 Morons.
witchcraft are mostly associated with witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Witch hunt mostly target witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Calling witches Morons would hardly justify burning them.
😂😂😂😂
A cartoonish response still isn’t justification for burning witches.
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@Yassine
- Whether you're christian or atheist or jewish or else, what is the most serious objection or question or scriptural quote or doctrine or experience... that shook what you believed in or at least made you uncomfortable or unable to deal with?
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
What don’t people especially Muslims don’t get?
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@Yassine
- From a scale of Jon Snow to 10, how much do you know about your belief system? From a scale of 1 to Jesus, how strong is your belief?
If what Jesus claimed were credible the Jews would not have demanded his crucifixion.
Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”
The Romans who crucified Jesus ranked low on the belief score board.
Matthew 27:35 After they had nailed him to the cross, the soldiers gambled for his clothes by throwing dice.
Muslims don’t believe Jesus’s virgin birth or resurrection.
But despite these setbacks Jesus still maintained.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
That put him back on the scoreboard.
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@zedvictor4
No problem.
Makes you wonder why no one attempted to correct members before.
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🤣🤣🤣 Morons.
witchcraft are mostly associated with witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Witch hunt mostly target witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Calling witches Morons would hardly justify burning them.
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@Elliott
Christianity is basically authoritarian and as such it attracts authoritarian followers. The problem with such followers is that they don’t just want to submit to an authority they also want others to submit to that authority.
I guess seducing the feet of followers is one way Christians maintain authority over its subjects.
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@Wylted
- English language churches have been preaching since at least the 1400's that the "Eye of the Needle" was a minor gate in the west wall of Jerusalem- so small that a camel had to be unpacked and made to bow to pass through. Difficult, but possible.
This is why it's useful to look at what rabbis were saying during the time of Jesus. People who he talked to or whose works he read. The rabbis at the time used the same phrase. The rabbis he got the exact phrase from added commentary to it and made it clear that it just means, it is very hard to enter heaven. I want to name the branch of Judaism that Jesus heavily pulled from, but it has been so long since I studied this, that I have forgotten.
The interpretation that seems to make sense is this. The "Eye of the Needle" was indeed a narrow gateway into Jerusalem. Since camels were heavily loaded with goods and riders, they would need to be un-loaded in order to pass through. Therefore, the analogy is that a rich man would have to similarly unload his material possessions in order to enter heaven.
A fully Mastered pastor must be willing to spend the rest of his life convincing people to part with their money and compete with camels as a way to needle them?
There are other ways and means that Arabs use to force a camel through narrow passages. That is no different than sheep shagging. Only here it is called camel humps.
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@Solaris1
Do you have any evidence/arguments that would prove that humans have souls/immaterial minds?Evidence against the immaterial part of the mind is Phineas Gage [1].Popular reports of pre-accident Gage often depict him as a hardworking, pleasant man prior to the accident. Post-accident, these reports describe him as a changed man, suggesting that the injury had transformed him into a surly, aggressive alcoholic who was unable to hold down a job.Damage to the Brain = damage to the mind, therefore mind is not separate from the brain.[1]
Soul is the energy trapped in a man’s body.
Biblical evidence.
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Scientific evidence.
In physics, energy (from Ancient Greek: ἐνέργεια, enérgeia, “activity”) is the quantitative property that is transferred to a body or to a physical system, recognizable in the performance of work and in the form of heat and light.
Since energy can neither be created or destroyed. The soul exists as energy.
The law of conservation of energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted from one form of energy to another.
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@janesix
I don’t know if you can call astrology a spiritual moment.
Women should follow the monthly calendar to predict their periods.
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@Outplayz
How do you know what’s true?
Listen to the experts and stay with the facts.
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@TheUnderdog
Are Christians bootlickers?
The Bible believes they are.
Jesus washed and kissed the feet of his disciples.
The Pope follows Jesus’s example and kisses the feet of people randomly picked from crowds following him.
Considering how Covid is spread. Kissing or hugging or shaking hands is not recommended. Christians bootlicking was designed to avoid all future contagions.
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@FLRW
I hope you’re sitting down. Maybe grab a stress ball or cuddle with your therapy dog.Ready? Ok. Here goes.The New Testament is filled with epistles that were not written by Paul or Peter. These are called “Pseudepigrapha” because, like other fake scriptures circulated in the late second and third centuries, they were not authored by the Apostle whose name appears on it.The textbook definition of Pseudepigrapha is:“Spurious or pseudonymous writings ascribed to various biblical patriarchs and prophets but composed within approximately 200 years of the birth of Jesus Christ.”In other words, the New Testament you’re holding contains “scriptures” that are about as reliable as The Gospel of Thomas, The Epistle of Barnabus, or The Book of Enoch [which the New Testament book of Jude quotes, by the way].Sorry to break it to you like this, but there was no other way.You need to know the truth.(the above is by Keith Giles in 2019)
More biblical scholars and Christians have read Paul’s Epistles than the Epistles of Keith Giles (2019)
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@zedvictor4
It seems that humans never listen.Though perhaps the only way to learn is to make mistakes.Nonetheless, the GOD hypothesis is but one.And like all creation hypotheses, it falls down at the beginning.
Now you know why I repeat my posts and repeatedly correct members.
Thanks for recognizing my efforts.
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@Stephen
Witches are mostly women.
All witches are women. The equivalent for a man is a Warlock.
witchcraft are mostly associated with witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Witch hunt mostly target witches.
Witches are mostly women.
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@Stephen
Why do Muslims always deflect to the Bible?How so?
Muslims always deflect to the Bible because:..................
Then they are wasting their time aren't they? The New Testament teaching is completely the opposite to that of the Quran.With that said, they - Muslims-may have a case when pointing to the Old Testamant, which is nothing more than a book of war and conquest as is the Quran.
Muslims have a valid reason for claiming the Abrahamic covenant and promise.
Ishmael was a son of Abraham, born of Sarah’s maidservant Hagar in an attempt to bring into the world the son God had promised to Abraham and Sarah. Later, Isaac was born to Abraham and Sarah, and Hagar and Ishmael were driven away because of Ishmael’s attitude toward Isaac (Genesis 21:9–10, 14). But God still had plans for Ishmael.
God promised Hagar that Ishmael, as a son of Abraham, would become a great nation (Genesis 21:17–18). The fulfillment is recorded in Genesis 25:12–18—Ishmael had twelve sons who became great rulers and eventually a nation of people. That came about in this way: Hagar, who was Egyptian herself, found a wife from Egypt for her son, and Ishmael settled in the desert of Paran (Genesis 21:21). Ishmael’s descendants “settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt as you go toward Ashur” (Genesis 25:18). The Bible lists Ishmael’s sons as Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah (verses 13–15).
So it was Ishmael that became a great nation even as Isaac flounder and the Abrahamic Covenant transferred from the Jews to the Muslims.
Matthew 21:43 I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce the proper fruit.
Fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise.
A simple comparison of covenant transfer.
Arabs own land 650 times the size of Israel.
Arabs own 2/3 of the worlds oil reserves.
Muslim population 1.9 billion.Jews total only 14 million.
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@zedvictor4
So why not give the three weeks a miss this year for a refreshing change.....Might turn out to be a good thing.Though upon reflection, I would suggest that a routine lifestyle is perfectly normal, whereas habitual behaviour without consideration for consequences could obviously have a negative impact in the long term.Anyway, thanks for the discussion and you stay safe too.
Ritualism is the common practice of going through the motions of daily life even though one does not accept the goals or values that align with those practices.
Jesus is a perfect example of a Jew that embraced Judaism and all its symbolic rituals like circumcision and Sabbath yet criticized the Jews as prophet killers.
Jesus frequently visited the Synagogue (Mark 3; Luke 13) so He obviously kept the Sabbath and He also attended the Jewish festivals or high days including the Passover (John 2:13, 6:4, 11:55) even from His youth (Luke 2:41-43). Jesus not only regularly attended Synagogue on the Sabbath but He taught there too as Matthew writes “when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him as he was teaching” (Matt 21:23. )
Jesus followed the law and so did His parents for after His birth it was “at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised” (Luke 2:21a) and being the first born He was consecrated “And when the time came for their purification according to the Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every male who first opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”) and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the Law of the Lord, “a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons” (Luke 2:22-24). Not only this but Jesus kept the Holy Days, as we have already read as He kept the Passover but also the Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths (John 7:2) and “About the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and began teaching” (John 7:14). He had been observing the Holy Days since He was a child, regularly attending with His parents (Luke 2:41-42) and observed all the Law of Moses.
Jesus even expanded on the laws.
Contrary to what most might think Jesus said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 5:17-19).
But what didJesus call the Jews despite follow Jewish rituals?
Matt 23:31 and Luke 11:47 Jesus accuses his Jewish opponents of killing prophets. The gospel texts provide no basis for this charge, other than the conflict that Jesus seems to be facing at the moment. Even the one prophetic figure whose death has affected Jesus, John the Baptist, was not killed in Jerusalem, but was executed, according to the gospel accounts, by Herod Antipas who ruled Galilee and Perea. On the contrary, the accusation of killing prophets and the success of the Israelite prophetic materials in getting proclaimed, recorded, transmitted, and canonized stand in tension with each other. Where does this idea come from and what makes it a viable assumption in the kinds of accusations made by Jesus in these texts?
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@Stephen
You are being disingenuous.Stop trying to make out that these two so called saints had established a full fledged established "church" with a congregation made up off the masses in Rome, they didn't.They may well have founded a underground 'movement' which went against Rome. The persecution of Christians was rife at the time these two lived and Rome was still at war with the Jews. Jerusalem hadn't even fell at the time c 63-64 bc. Rome had it own gods and no way were they ready to add another "god" to their own established pantheon , especially a Jew god .
According to Irenaeus, a 2nd-century Church Father, the church at Rome was founded directly by the apostles Peter and Paul.
The book of Romans is scriptural evidence of Paul addressing Christians in Rome.
Letter of Paul to the Romans, also called Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Romans, abbreviation Romans, sixth book of the New Testament and the longest and doctrinally most significant of St. Paul the Apostle’s writings. It was probably composed at Corinth in about 57 CE. The epistle was addressed to the Christian church at Rome, whose congregation Paul hoped to visit for the first time on his way to Spain. The letter has been intensely studied since early Christian times and was the basis of Martin Luther’s teaching on justification by faith alone.
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@zedvictor4
Well, the composition of the bible is such that variable conclusions can be reached and therein warnings can be seen.So global climate is altering probably due to human influence, and so all of a sudden the bible predicts this.Though it would have been more helpful if the bible had given us a scientific breakdown of the problems that could be expected from future population demands and associated industrialisation and dependency on fossil fuels.Trouble is the bible is not quite so clear cut and prefers to issue riddle like warnings encoded in socio-ideological ramblings.Though are you being cynical or serious?
The Bible was written at a time when there were less scientific labels and mostly colloquial informal conversations. God tailored his message according to the comprehension level of the people he was addressing.
But the warnings were there presented as cause and effect.
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@SkepticalOne
The only sacrifice Jesus has offered to make is to leave the comforts of his fathers house in heaven temporarily to come and fetch his believer so they may be with him.
John 14:2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
I'm not going to help you preach under the pretense of debate. If you become interested in honest debate, let me know. :-)
I back my arguments with scriptural evidence. We have the evidence why not use it?
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