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@Dr.Franklin
--> @Shilabecause it doesn't prove anything. It's just he said this, she said that
Archeological evidence was provided to back Finklestein, director of Tel Aviv University’s archeology institute.
“Among scholars, the case against the Exodus began crystallizing about 13 years ago. That’s when Finklestein, director of Tel Aviv University’s archeology institute, published the first English-language book detailing the results of intensive archeological surveys of what is believed to be the first Israelite settlements in the hilly regions of the West Bank.
The surveys, conducted during the 1970s and 1980s while Israel possessed what are now Palestinian territories, documented a lack of evidence for Joshua’s conquests in the 13th century BC and the indistinguishable nature of pottery, architecture, literary conventions and other cultural details between the Canaanites and the new settlers.
If there was no conquest, no evidence of a massive new settlement of an ethnically distinct people, scholars argue, then the case for a literal reading of Exodus all but collapses. The surveys’ final results were published three years ago.
The settlement research marked the turning point in archeological consensus on the issue, Dever said. It added to previous research that showed that Egypt’s voluminous ancient records contained not one mention of Israelites in the country, although one 1210 BC inscription did mention them in Canaan.
Kadesh Barnea in the east Sinai desert, where the Bible says the fleeing Israelites sojourned, was excavated twice in the 1950s and 1960s and produced no sign of settlement until three centuries after the Exodus was supposed to have occurred. The famous city of Jericho has been excavated several times and was found to have been abandoned during the 13th and 14th centuries BC.
Moreover, specialists in the Hebrew Bible say that the Exodus story is riddled with internal contradictions stemming from the fact that it was spliced together from two or three texts written at different times. One passage in Exodus, for instance, says that the bodies of the pharaoh’s charioteers were found on the shore, while the next verse says they sank to the bottom of the sea.
And some of the story’s features are mythic motifs found in other Near Eastern legends, said Ron Hendel, a professor of Hebrew Bible at UC Berkeley. Stories of babies found in baskets in the water by gods or royalty are common, he said, and half of the 10 plagues fall into a “formulaic genre of catastrophe” found in other Near Eastern texts.
Carol Meyers, a professor specializing in biblical studies and archeology at Duke University, said the ancients never intended their texts to be read literally. “People who try to find scientific explanations for the splitting of the Red Sea are missing the boat in understanding how ancient literature often mixed mythic ideas with historical recollections,” she said. “That wasn’t considered lying or deceit; it was a way to get ideas across.”
Virtually no scholar, for instance, accepts the biblical figure of 600,000 men fleeing Egypt, which would have meant there were a few million people, including women and children. The ancient desert at the time could not support so many nomads, scholars say, and the powerful Egyptian state kept tight security over the area, guarded by fortresses along the way.
Even Orthodox Jewish scholar Lawrence Schiffman said “you’d have to be a bit crazy” to accept that figure. He believes that the account in Joshua of a swift military campaign is less accurate than the Judges account of a gradual takeover of Canaan.”
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Trump shares barrage of QAnon content and other conspiracy theories on his social media platform.
Trump is uniting white nationalist.
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--> @ShilaYour title defines you as the SkepticalOne. You mock everyone by being Skeptical of what anyone says.SkepticalOne: My username has to do with skepticism, not cynicism. I am skeptical of all claims which cannot be substantiated through reason or evidence. If someone considers this mocking, that's not my problem.
You just said you are skeptical of all claims. That means you prejudge everyone until they convince you.
Which is the total opposite of what most people believe i.e.everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaWith over 2 billion Christians Christianity is a fact. Christians converted because they believe the Bible, that too is a fact.The Bible must be internally consistent to Christians for them to commit their lives to Jesus Christ.if it's so consistentwhy are there over a thousand christian denominations ?
The Bible is consistent, but that does not imply those that convert to Christianity are consistent. Hence the variety of Christian denominations.
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@3RU7AL
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@Shila
There is no escaping fate. It is beyond one’s control or free will.
But one can improve his Karma by meditation and living a pure life.
your definition of free-will requires freedom from fate
Let us revisit the definition of free will.
Free will definition: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
It reads:
Free will is not constrained by fate or necessity. It is left to one's own discretion.
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More Africans are turning to Christianity than any other race.
Black violence might be a result of learning justification by fate can be the great equalizer.
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@Public-Choice
I opened this thinking it was going to be a spirited discussion about the facts of Monkeypox and the current science. I was wondering if I was going to learn a thing or two.Then the posts reminded me I'm on planet earth.
Would you have preferred to be on some other planet more familiar with monkey pox?
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@SkepticalOne
--> @ShilaPlease don't involve me in your mocking of other users.
Your title defines you as the SkepticalOne. You mock everyone by being Skeptical of what anyone says.
I am new here so mocking of others is hardly beneficial to me.
I can understand why you would like to mock others directly. You don’t need my permission to do that.
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@Tradesecret
There is but one only,1 living, and true God:2 who is infinite in being and perfection,3 a most pure spirit,4 invisible,5 without body, parts,6 or passions,7 immutable,8 immense,9 eternal,10 incomprehensible,11 almighty,12 most wise,13 most holy,14 most free,15 most absolute,16 working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will,17 for His own glory;18 most loving,19 gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;20 the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him;21 and withal, most just and terrible in His judgments,22 hating all sin,23 and who will by no means clear the guilty.24God hath all life,25 glory,26 goodness,27 blessedness,28 in and of Himself; and is alone in and unto Himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which He hath made,29 nor deriving any glory from them,30 but only manifesting His own glory in, by, unto, and upon them: He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things;31 and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever Himself pleaseth.32 In His sight all things are open and manifest;33 His knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature,34 so as nothing is to Him contingent, or uncertain.35 He is most holy in all His counsels, in all His works, and in all His commands.36 To Him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience He is pleased to require of them.37In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.38 The Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding: the Son is eternally begotten of the Father:39 the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.401 11 25 37Deut. 6:4; I Cor. 8:4, 6. 2 I Thess. 1:9; Jer. 10:10.16; John 4:24, with Luke 24:39. 73 Job 11:7, 8, 9; Job 26:14. 4 John 4:24. 5 I Tim. 1:17. 6 Deut. 4:15, 8 James 1:17; Mal. 3:6. 9 I Kings 8:27; Jer. 23:23, 24. 10 Ps. 90:2; I Tim. 1:17.Acts 14:11, 15. 13 Rom. 16:27.Ps. 145:3. 12Rom. 11:36.John 5:26. 26I Tim. 6:15; Dan. 4:25, 35. 33 Heb. 4:13. 34 Rom. 11:33, 34; Ps. 147:5. 35 Acts 15:18; Ezek. 11:5.Rev. 5:12, 13, 14. 38 I John 5:7; Matt. 3:16, 17; Matt. 28:19; II Cor. 13:14. 39 John 1:14, 18. 40 John 15:26; Gal. 4:6.Gen. 17:1; Rev. 4:8. 19 I John 4:8, 16.14 Isa. 6:3; Rev. 4:8. 15 Ps. 115:3. 21 Heb. 11:6. 22 Neh. 9:32, 33.16 Exod. 3:14.17 Eph. 1:11. 18 Prov. 16:4; 24 Nah. 1:2, 3; Exod. 34:7.20 Exod. 34:6, 7.Acts 7:2. 27 Ps. 119:68. 28 I Tim. 6:15; Rom. 9:5. 29 Acts 17:24, 25.23 Ps. 5:5, 6. 30 Job 22:2, 3.31 Rom. 11:36. 32 Rev. 4:11; 36 Ps. 145:17; Rom. 7:12.
Jesus was none of the above.
Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
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@SkepticalOne
--> @ShilaJesus was the fulfillment of the prophesies in the Bible.Harry Potter fulfills the prophecy of the Harry Potter series. All you're saying is that the Bible is internally consistent.I'm more interested in what's actually true in the real world rather than internal consistency
With over 2 billion Christians Christianity is a fact. Christians converted because they believe the Bible, that too is a fact.
The Bible must be internally consistent to Christians for them to commit their lives to Jesus Christ.
Harry Potter has yet to stand the test of time.
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@SkepticalOne
--> @Polytheist-WitchIf you people don't want me to judge you by what you say then don't say it.Funny, I'm being judged by words I haven't said and being told to watch my words. The absurdity...
Polytheist-Witch is lashing out at everyone because she cannot control her mood swings. It’s that period of the month for her.
The only advice.
If it hurts go to a smaller size.
If it leaks go to a larger size.
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@FLRW
--> @ShilaI'm guessing that college professor believed in God ( low reasoning ability) and when his finger was cut off he said, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
In your example God abandoned the professor’s finger. So Psalms 22 wouldn’t apply.
Jesus was losing his life on the cross and lamented, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?“
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@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaFree will definition: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.please explain how anyone can escape fate
There is no escaping fate. It is beyond one’s control or free will.
But one can improve his Karma by meditation and living a pure life.
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@rosends
The issue of slavery is a complex one. If you want to read a brief discussion of the application of laws in that regard, you can start here and (with overlap and more) here.Suffice to say, manumission's being prohibited was not as simple as that half anecdote suggests (though that anecdote was a responsa for finding a way to ensure freedom regardless of the apparent superficial prohibition).The topic continues to be debated and its intricacies worked through such as in this exchange.
Slavery was not practical to the Jews because it would be impossible to teach the slaves all the different commandments and restrictions required in Jewish households.
Neither would the Jews make good slaves for the same reason. Keeping the commandment, diet and rituals would have left the Jew slave little time to do anything else.
But before the Exodus Jews made ideal slaves because Moses had not yet received the commandments from God and one could treat the jews any which way with little protest.
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@Conservallectual
There are 2 kinds of evolution:Microevolution: a smaller level of evolution which has been proven to existMacroevolution: A larger level of evolution which has not been proven to exist and the only supposed evidence that Scientists point to it is the really messy fossil record(which does not even support it either, as new families just appear from nothing in it).
This would disprove both evolution and creation.
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Polytheist-Witch: Training is a weird thing it has to be training in something that's relevant. For instance I had a college professor who was brilliant at understanding social policy and cultural anthropology. But he cut his finger off because while cutting his grass he thought something was caught under the mower and he stuck a finger under there to work it loose without turning the mower off. Obviously some of his training didn't actually make him better at everything it just made him really good at being a professor.
Obviously the Professor who was brilliant at understanding social policy and cultural anthropology knew little or nothing about lawn mowers. So his training and knowledge could not be applied to operate a lawn mower.
But he exercised his free will and stuck a finger under the mower to work the grass loose without turning the mower.
Free will definition: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
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@K_Michael
--> @ShilaI'd be first in line.
Try not to get ahead of yourself.
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@3RU7AL
--> @Shila
at what point is your "discretion" in any way, disconnected from your accumulated experience ?do you believe that people with better training make better decisions ?
That too is within the purview of free will to be selective of one’s accumulated experience.
do you believe that people with better training make better decisions ?
They make better conformist.
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@K_Michael
Humans do all the most interesting shit. That's not to say I don't care about what animals and proteins and stars are doing. But my main area of concern is what we are doing. Now, technically, I'm a transhumanist, which in this context means I think humans could stand to be a lot cooler than they are now. In no way does it discount humanity as it currently stands, because it's still the best there is rn. If I met an alien race today, I would place them at an equal or higher point of interest because 1. they do interesting shit, and 2. I know nothing about them, which makes them more interesting.
I would place you high on the list of people who should join the aliens. Anyone who finds alien shit interesting should be allowed to do all the most interesting shit with it.
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@3RU7AL
--> @Shila
Free will definition: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
It clearly states free will is acting on one's own discretion all things considered.
at what point is your "discretion" in any way, disconnected from your accumulated experience ?
That too is within the purview of free will to be selective of one’s accumulated experience.
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--> @ShilaPolytheist-Witch: Do something about your death threats or fuck off, pussy.
You sound desperate and ready to be barbecued. How long have you been marinating in vinegar?
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@SkepticalOne
-> @Shila
That is why the Bible is important. It is a record of what other eyewitnesses saw and heard during their generation. The Bible serves as a book on the history of the Jewish people.
Full disclosure: I'm not convinced the Bible represents eye-witness or literal accounts...at least not completely. Some of the 'history' didn't actually happen or can't be verified. Eg. Global flood, the Exodus, The dead rising as Jesus died, etc. Some of the purported eye-witness accounts are merely attributions added to anonymous Gospels. I think it is fair to say, the Bible represents a mixture of history and myth.
The Bible was not written so future generation could criticize the Jews.
The Bible was written over thousands of years by many many writers. Each probably had a different set of motivations. I would agree none probably intended to provide room for criticism, but claiming to speak for a perfect deity in an imperfect way provides ample room for it.
Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophesies in the Bible. The promised messiah to the Jews and God the Trinity to the Christians.
The scriptures clearly state faith and belief is required in the Bible to achieve salvation.
You by your denial and doubts have none of the above blessings.
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@3RU7AL
i hesitate to make broad statements here, but some seem to be suggesting that nobody is arguing that a human decision is free from all previous influences. i think this is a fair statement. the best attempts at explaining free-will seem to suggest that there is some kind of influence-gap. that is to say, it has been suggested that a human decision is influenced up to some unknown point less than 100% and then there is some i-gap of unspecified quantity and free-will lives there spreading magic fairy dust, however small or improbable that i-gap might be. i have never heard anyone propose a way to measure this i-gap in order to perhaps somehow gauge how much free-will someone might have, or to figure out if children have it, and if not, when do they get it? the i-gap sounds to me more like an ignorance-of-influence gap (this would also seem like the compatibilist's opinion). if this is the case we should be able to dial up free-will by dialing up ignorance.the main problems i see with this proposal are as follows:1) there is no way to measure the influence-gap. it is in all likelihood merely a knowledge-of-influence-gap or lack-of-precision-gap.2) even if the influence-gap is considered to be a real thing, wouldn't that gap simply increase the value of the other influences? how could the influence gap possibly be considered an influence? it's a gap that is by definition non-influential.3) let's consider based on at least a small shred of logic, what could be in that pesky i-gap that might actually be an influence. well, whatever is in that i-gap can't be influenced since it is inside something defined as an influence-gap. so maybe there's an uninfluenced-influence in that i-gap; we could call it something mysterious like, an uncaused-cause, or maybe a first-cause, or better yet ex-nihilo. could that uncaused-cause be influenced or originated by anything at all? no, of course not because it's in the i-gap and it is defined as being uncaused. so could a human take credit for a decision or action that emerged from the i-gap? how could they possibly take credit or be responsible for something they had no conceivable control over? anything emerging from the i-gap would be indistinguishable from a random event. and randomness is incompatible with choice.4) but what if it's the essence of "me" that is in the i-gap. are you kidding me?! i don't care if it's your grandmother, your dead child, or your ever lovin' god. if you put them in the i-gap they are at-best indistinguishable from random noise and at worst non-existent.5) what if the gap is not an influence-gap but instead a black box? if the gap is not an influence-gap, there is no place for mr. free-will to spread his magic fairy dust because the gap instantly fills with influence and is then no longer properly described as a gap. additionally if the output of the i-gap is non-random, that is to say it emits some identifiable pattern, then whatever is happening in the i-gap must have some way of knowing what the hell is going on outside of the i-gap and this knowledge is definitely influencing its output thereby introducing influence into the i-gap which would then promptly disappear in a cute little puff of logic.i think it's important to fully comprehend this influence-gap. imagine, if you will, that i am constructing a human being. when the recipe calls for me to add "a dash of free-will" i can't just add any old thing, willy nilly; i have to first construct a proper influence-gap to protect my human from the evil determinism. this would be some container that is impervious to all conceivable influence. i probably have a sound-proof, shock-proof, opaque, air-tight, empathy-proof, magic-proof, momentum-proof, time-proof capsule of some sort just laying around my house, i'll just set that to the side for now. ok, adding an empty box to the mix isn't going to do anything of course so we have to put something in it. since whatever is in this i-gap is supposed to advise me on important moral decisions my selection is of critical importance. well, the most intelligent and moral person i know of is my friend george, so since i don't seem to have a better option, i throw george in the i-capsule and seal him in tight. now days, weeks, and months have gone by and i've pretty much forgotten about george until one afternoon i am confronted with an intractable dilemma. i am faced with a decision with staggeringly profound moral implications and i must make a decision immediately. what do i do? well this sounds like a case for the magnificent george! so i locate my everything-proof capsule on which i have scrawled the descriptive term "i-gap" with my handy wax pencil, and i ask my question. i exhaustively explain all of the known factors leading up to and logical implications of this monumental decision to george, my moral, spiritual and financial advisor, and then i wait for an answer, any answer at all. nothing happens. things are getting desperate, so i beg george to give me an answer, to point me in the right direction. nothing happens. i light some candles and wave a magic wand over the i-gap, but still i can't divine any response from george. i realize there is a problem with the i-gap's design. so i quickly scour my garage for spare parts and retrofit a one way intercom system onto the i-gap so i can hear what george has to say. mind you he still can't hear anything or in any way perceive anything that i have to say, thus preserving the integrity of the influence-gap, but now he can speak directly to me, thus becoming an uncaused-cause. of course george has causes, he was born and raised and had both happy and sad experiences, but i'll just ignore all that for now. george is pretty much an uncaused-cause now that he is housed in the exclusive and luxurious, new and improved i-gap. so i ask george again to answer my plea for guidance. nothing happens. every once in a while george does actually say something but it's usually along the lines of "let me out of this f#cking box you god#amned muth#rf#cking muth#rf#cker!" heh, that george is such a kidder!obviously george is constrained by the parameters of his confinement and is therefore incapable of offering any advice that would be requested from him.the same would be true if you put jesus, or krishna, or a unicorn, or any conceivable entity or event in the modified i-gap.ipso-facto, no free-will.
The exercise of free will is not hindered by the I-gap.
Please see the definition of free will.
Free will definition: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
It clearly states free will is acting on one's own discretion all things considered.
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@Lemming
--> @ShilaIn response to your harping claim that I've been harping,You keep using that word. - YouTubeAs for the rest you say,I'm not inclined to comment.
The OP asks for comments not harping.
If you are not inclined to comment, then you were just harping.
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@rosends
--> @Shilawhere do you show any disagreement between Jews? Your quote (which had the error) was from "Chicago Bible Students" which isn't a Jewish site.
America has the largest Jewish population outside of Israel.
Hebrew translators are used in Bible classes.
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@Tarik
--> @Shila
By offering so many options we have a diversity of conflicting beliefs.
Not on this end you do.
Which end are you speaking from?
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@Lemming
--> @Shila"harp on: to talk about (a subject) constantly or repeatedly in an annoying way"Might be you found my post harping,Myself I'd find continuous focus and repetition on the use and definition of the word atheism, harping.As I think the Topic originator was looking for something else in conversation, when he made his post.
Instead of showing or confirming contradictions between Atheism and Humanism you resorted to harping.
The OP asks: Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory.
All that is needed is a clear definition of each.
Humanism is an approach to life based on reason and our common humanity, recognising that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone. While atheism is merely the absence of belief, humanism is a positive attitude to the world, centred on human experience, thought, and hopes
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@Tarik
--> @Elliott
Then he doesn’t want everyone to believe in him.
Or He does conditionally.
By offering so many options we have a diversity of conflicting beliefs.
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@rosends
--> @Shila
your cut and paste material is wrong
the statement "I AM WHO I AM" (spelled he, yod, he in Hebrew)
that spelling means "I was"there is no present tense "I am" in Hebrew as a stand alone form of the to-be verb.
Here is proof even between Jews interpreting their scriptures there is disagreement.
I have seen the phrase used to point to God. I can't find a source/explanation for the phrase other than the KJV, but the KJV seems inconsistent in how it translates the corresponding Hebrew word (in Judges 6:16, as one example, it translates the same word "will be"). So what is the source for the decision to use "I am" in Ex 3:14? Is it in order to connect to the John 8:58 use of the word "eimi" in the Greek?
The Hebrew words in Exodus 3:14 for “I AM THAT I AM” are ehyeh asher ehyeh which should more accurately be translated “I will be what I will be” or as Rotherham translates it, “I will become whatsoever I may become.” This expression in Exodus 3:14 is an idiom, an expression that has a meaning that cannot be understood by the individual words. So, what does “I AM THAT I AM” mean?
“I AM THAT I AM”
The statement "I AM" comes from the Hebrew verb "to be or to exist." With this statement, God declared that He is self-existent, eternal, self-sufficient, self-directed, and unchanging. But this statement also declared that He is present.
From the statement "I AM WHO I AM" (spelled he, yod, he in Hebrew) in verse 14, God formed a holy proper name, Yahweh (spelled yod, he, vav, he in Hebrew), in verse 15.
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@Lemming
I 'already stated my opinion that that he was using the word atheism a bit broadly.But still, ideas, people who claim identities,Can be roughly categorized at times,Depending on when and where.Take the identity of Americans for example,They can 'roughly be identified by different values, depending on timeframe.Take Communists,They can 'roughly be identified by different values, depending on timeframe.Though for the Communists as time passes, it becomes required to use where,As the belief spreads over such distances and numbers, that vast variation occurs.Anyway,I like talking with people at times,And wanted to address his topic for what I thought he 'meant,Rather than harping on what he 'said.
All we read were your harping opinions.
Personally my opinion aligns in a similar manner as,zedvictor4 #33RU7AL #21SkepticalOne #23Though arguably atheists could be grouped into various groups based on beliefs, the variety, number of beliefs, and lack of formal organization makes that difficult I think.. . .But for conversation,Let's say you were talking about a specific atheist/sWho did not believe in God, an Afterlife, or Objective Morality.And wanted to follow Humanism.My view of such, is the divorce between the intellect and the heart, as well as conditioning.. . .Also the having of other values.
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@Lemming
-->@ConservallectualPersonally my opinion aligns in a similar manner as,zedvictor4 #33RU7AL #21SkepticalOne #23Though arguably atheists could be grouped into various groups based on beliefs, the variety, number of beliefs, and lack of formal organization makes that difficult.. . .But for conversation,Let's say you were talking about a specific atheist/sWho did not believe in God, an Afterlife, or Objective Morality.And wanted to follow Humanism.My view of such, is the divorce between the intellect and the heart, as well as conditioning.
The OP asks: Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory.
All that is needed is a clear definition of each.
Humanism is an approach to life based on reason and our common humanity, recognising that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone. While atheism is merely the absence of belief, humanism is a positive attitude to the world, centred on human experience, thought, and hopes
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@rosends
I have seen the phrase used to point to God. I can't find a source/explanation for the phrase other than the KJV, but the KJV seems inconsistent in how it translates the corresponding Hebrew word (in Judges 6:16, as one example, it translates the same word "will be"). So what is the source for the decision to use "I am" in Ex 3:14? Is it in order to connect to the John 8:58 use of the word "eimi" in the Greek?
The Hebrew words in Exodus 3:14 for “I AM THAT I AM” are ehyeh asher ehyeh which should more accurately be translated “I will be what I will be” or as Rotherham translates it, “I will become whatsoever I may become.” This expression in Exodus 3:14 is an idiom, an expression that has a meaning that cannot be understood by the individual words. So, what does “I AM THAT I AM” mean?
“I AM THAT I AM”
The statement "I AM" comes from the Hebrew verb "to be or to exist." With this statement, God declared that He is self-existent, eternal, self-sufficient, self-directed, and unchanging. But this statement also declared that He is present.
From the statement "I AM WHO I AM" (spelled he, yod, he in Hebrew) in verse 14, God formed a holy proper name, Yahweh (spelled yod, he, vav, he in Hebrew), in verse 15.
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@Elliott
--> @Polytheist-Witch
That's because atheists are just monotheist with angst.
I’m not against monotheism only when it tries to impose its beliefs on others.
Atheist definition: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
Monotheism definition: monotheism, belief in the existence of one god, or in the oneness of God. As such, it is distinguished from polytheism, the belief in the existence of many ...
Angst definition: a feeling of deep anxiety or dread, typically an unfocused one about the human condition or the state of the world in general.
Polytheist-Witch needs help with the proper definition of words so she can make sensible posts.
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@SkepticalOne
--> @Polytheist-Witch
About atheist? Absolutely nothing will. You guys are who you are your posts aren't going to change, no one's going to change my mind about what you people think.
Thanks for clarifying your position and revealing your own blatant hypocrisy and bigotry.
If witch burning didn’t change her mind, nothing will.
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@SkepticalOne
-->@Conservallectual
In an atheist worldview,
No such thing. Atheism isn't an epistemology, a moral framework, an ontology, a methodology, etc. Atheists' outlook on life can be shaped by any number of things, but it ain't their answer to 'Do you believe in gods'.That's where the OP goes wrong.
The OP asks: Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory.
All that is needed is a clear definition of each.
Humanism is an approach to life based on reason and our common humanity, recognising that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone. While atheism is merely the absence of belief, humanism is a positive attitude to the world, centred on human experience, thought, and hopes
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@SkepticalOne
What I mean to say is the Bible is foundational to Christianity. No one alive today could have been eye-witness to the life/death of Jesus or the destruction of the temple. No one alive during the life of Jesus could have been witness to the Exodus, the battle of Jericho, or the seige of Jerusalem.
That is why the Bible is important. It is a record of what other eyewitnesses saw and heard during their generation. The Bible serves as a book on the history of the Jewish people.
The point being, ignorance of your holy book isn't a defense to legitimate criticism of your religious position.
The Bible was not written so future generation could criticize the Jews. It was written to preserve the Jewish struggles with their God.
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@Stephen
Appealing to numbers counts for exactly zero. Billions of Muslims see Jesus only as a prophet . And we know that "the greatest prophet that ever lived" appears to have gotten it all wrong.800 million Muslims are illiterate. The prophet Mohammad was illiterate.800 million Muslims out of 1.4 billion are illiterate: Dr Farrukh Saleem
Stephen: Christians were and many still are illiterate. They only went and go by what the pastor or the priest spouted to them. Like I have said, your appealing to numbers counts for exactly zero, which was my point.
but Christians don’t see Jesus as just another prophet. They see Jesus as God.
It shouldn’t surprise anyone if Muslims confuse Jesus with their own prophet.
It wouldn't surprise me but I am sure they understand the differences between a man that preaches "turn the other cheek" and one that preaches " do not take Christians and Jews as your friends".
Muslims see both Jesus and Mohammad as prophets.
She deliver on that promise. Jesus is seen as saviour , lord and King to billions of Christians.
So you keep saying, but what is your evidence of this dying and rising god-man ( of which there have been many) saving anyone? And you are still hopelessly appealing to numbers.
Not to mention the other failed prophecies promised to his mother.
The evidence for fulfillment is the billions that worship Jesus and call him Lord, King and God.
That is bigger than any kingdom the Jews could have imagined.
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@Tradesecret
Actually, in the Bible the sabbath is just another term for holiday. It is a holy day. And was more than just the 7th day of the week.In the week of Jesus death for instance - there was the passover. It was a holiday - a high sabbath. And it was not on the 7th day of the week - but dependent upon the moon.
Try to get the Jewish holidays right. There is a difference between Passover, sabbath and high sabbath.
WHAT DOES PASSOVER MEAN?
The Jewish holiday of Passover (in Hebrew, Pesach) commemorates the exodus of the Jews from slavery in Egypt. The holiday originated in the Torah, where the word pesach refers to the ancient Passover sacrifice (known as the Paschal Lamb); it is also said to refer to the idea that God “passed over” (pasach) the houses of the Jews during the 10th plague on the Egyptians, the slaying of the first born. The holiday is ultimately a celebration of freedom, and the story of the exodus from Egypt is a powerful metaphor that is appreciated not only by Jews, but by people of other faiths as well.
What does Sabbath mean?
Sabbath definition: the seventh day of the week observed from Friday evening to Saturday evening as a day of rest and worship by Jews and some Christians. b : Sunday observed among Christians as a day of rest and worship.
What does high sabbath mean?
In addition to the ordinary or "normal" weekly Sabbaths, God also determined 7 more "special" days of rest in the year, which He also called "days of rest", i.e. "Sabbaths". Since these seven annual Sabbaths are special holidays, they are also called "High Sabbaths," "Feast Sabbaths," "Holiest Sabbaths," "Great Sabbaths," or "Most Holy Sabbaths" (literally: σαββατα σαββατων = Sabbaths of the Sabbaths; Lev 16:31; 23:32). The rules of not working were kept especially strict on these days. If the weekly Sabbaths were to be observed, how much more so were the annual Sabbaths, which are also "days of God" (Lev 26:2; Isa 56:4; Jer 20:12-24; 22:8,26; 23:38; 44:24).
The seven biblical High Sabbaths (feast days) are exactly enumerated in Lev 16; Lev 23 and Num 28-29. As the weekly Sabbaths begin and end, so do annual Sabbaths: "beginning at evening, from evening to evening shall you keep your Sabbath" (Lev 23:32), that means after sunset. The first two High Sabbaths take place in the very first month of the year, which is called "Abib" (month of ears of grain) or "Nisan".
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There are many arguments against God, the problem of evil, the a metaphysical issue of a disembodied will seeming to make no sense, to the logical contradictions of various religions, when religions or the religious create specific assign specific properties of “God”, that god typically ends up being logically incoherent. Generally speaking, atheism has a good handle on logically refuting all specific Gods, and has a pretty decent explanation of why gods were invented in the first place, and why were even having this conversation. Realizing that the jig is up, theists typically respond by watering down their claims about what God is to the point where it can’t rationally be defined as God; but then use that generic definition to magic their God into existence - see Kalam
Polytheist-Witch: Another reason there's no point to discussing religion with atheist and another reason to despise them. There's no point in you being here you should really piss off.
Theists believe in Witches and burn them. Atheists don’t believe burning them will help religion. You appear upset with both groups.
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@Dr.Franklin
more copy and paste
Why the objection over scholarly research?
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@Tarik
Jews like Rabbi Rosends.
Who?
Rabbi Rosends is a member on Debateart. He also happens to be a Jewish Rabbi. I am sure he is circumcised.
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@Tradesecret
Sabbath definition: a day of religious observance and abstinence from work, kept by Jewish people from Friday evening to Saturday evening, and by most Christians on Sunday.
You reduced Christ to a Sunday. When Christians are expected to believe Jesus is God.
You must belong to one of those cult denominations.
Interestingly, it is the cults which consider the Sabbath still Saturday. Let me make an exception for the Jewish religion. Yet, it is not Christian in any event. the church has celebrated Sunday as its day of worship since the beginning of the church.Christians don't actually celebrate the Sabbath. Yes, many Christians at times equate the Sabbath with the day of rest - and since Sunday is the day we now worship and a day of traditional rest - there has been a crossover in people's minds. Yet, Christians get their definitions of the Sabbath and of the Lord's Day from the Scriptures, not from the dictionary like those who don't understand the religion.I never reduced Christ to a Sunday. What a nonsense.
The New Testament is in agreement as to which day is the seventh day of the week. One of the most straight-forward references is found in Luke 23:53-56 & Luke 24:1, and describes Joseph of Arimathaea taking the body of Jesus down off the cross. “Then he took it [the body of Jesus] down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.”
This Bible passage shows the chronology of the week including how the Sabbath day and the first day of the week relate to each other. According to Luke 23:54, Jesus died on the preparation day which we now call Good Friday. The next day, Sabbath, the women rested according to the commandment. Finally, after the Sabbath, on the first day of the week, Jesus was resurrected.
Therefore, according to the Bible, the Sabbath day can be pinpointed as the day before the first day of the week. Today, we call this day Saturday or the seventh day of the week. In addition, ask any Christian which day comes between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday—their answer, Saturday.
The Christians got so many things wrong that another Abrahamic offshoot Islam is poised to surpass Christianity within the decade.
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@SkepticalOne
The Bible can be interpreted in many different ways, nonetheless there are some people that would classify themself as religious but don’t believe in the God depicted in The Bible.
No interpretation is required to see fair and equal are not justified by the basis of your beliefs. I can submit the verses if you dispute this.You'll need to provide a different basis for your beliefs or concede no justification can be provided from the Bible.
Justification by faith is provided in the Bible.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
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@Wylted
--> @ShilaWouldn't be the first time I beat off a Catholic.
Oldschoolpancakedummy Has yet to earn your wrath. Let us see if he deserves it.
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@PREZ-HILTON
--> @OldschoolpancakedummyWhy did you do it?
We all want to know. You might have to beat it out of him. Hope his faith is fully baked.
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@Tarik
while Christianity draws on both Old and New Testaments
So what do you call the people that don’t?
Jews like Rabbi Rosends.
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@rosends
Jews love to interpret everything so that it suits their interests.
you have pretty explicitly and repeatedly crossed any line drawn dividing respectful discourse and (in)formal debate into fallacies and disrespectful language. You have proven a lack of knowledge of Judaism, history, geography, logic and theology. Among others. Your trolling is really poor and your insincerity is apparent. If one were to summarize your anti-Semitic position using the phrase that I quoted, I think that that would apt. Fortunately, with schools opening up, you will be kept busy with Earth Science homework and pre-Algebra tests. Good luck with that.
Most people would be surprised to read the many interpretations of the Holocaust held by Jews who claim there was a lack of knowledge of Judaism, history, geography, logic, poetry, prophecy, Jewish covenant and theology in the extermination of Jews by Europeans.
The many Jewish interpretations of the Holocaust.
Perennial suffering has as much right to expression as the tortured have to scream . . . hence it may have been wrong to say that no poem could be written after Auschwitz."
--Theodore Adorno
Jewish responses to the Shaoh, to the Holocaust, have been understandably multi-faceted:
1. "God is dead." If there were a God, he would surely have prevented the Holocaust. Since God did not prevent it, then God as traditionally understood either does not exist or has changed in some way. For some this means that God has abandoned them, while for others it means God never did exist. Jews must be in the world for themselves. This may mean a turn to atheism or perhaps a turn to some more like pantheism. Sherman Wine holds that no God can possibly exist, while Richard Rubenstein has come to suggest a kind of neo-paganism as the best alternative.
2. "The Eclipse of God." There are times when God is inexplicably absent from history. Martin Buber made this phrase famous, suggesting that the 20th century was passing through a period where God, for reasons unknowable to us, refused to reveal himself.
3. A Distant God. The experience of the Holocaust calls for Jews to reinterpret their belief in God. God is obviously not a being who actually interferes with human existence in any tangible, measurable way. Arthur A. Cohen holds that God is so transcendent that he cannot be held responsible for the Holocaust.
4. A Limited God. God is not omnipotent. He does not have the power to bring to a halt such things as the Holocaust. Harold Kushner made this view popular in his book, When Bad Things Happen to Good People.
5. Free Will & God. Terrible events such as the Holocaust are the price we have to pay for having free will. God will not and cannot interfere with history, otherwise our free will would effectively cease to exist. Eliezer Berkovits, for example, stresses that God is all-powerful but that he curtails his own freedom to respect human freedom, even with such horrific consequences.
6. A Suffering God. Borrowing from Christian reflection on Christ and the passibility of God, Hans Jonas has suggested that God is limited in power but able to suffer with the pain of the Jewish people. Others stress the compassion and love of God, even if not understood in the Holocaust.
7. Jewish Survival. The event issues a call for Jewish affirmation for survival. The rise of the nation of Israel is one way of reading this revelation. Emil Fackenheim speaks of the 614th commandment-- ""Jews are forbidden to give Hitler posthumous victories." He further states this as Jews are "commanded to survive as Jews, lest the Jewish people perish;" "to remember the victims of Auschwitz, lest their memory perish;" and they are "forbidden to despair of Man, lest they co-operate in delivering the world to the forces of Auschwitz;" nor "to despair of the God of Israel, lest Judaism perish."
8. Incomprehensible Silence. The Shoah exceeds human comprehension. It is a so horrific as to strip away any attempts at explanation. André Neher believes that there can only be silence after the Holocaust--God's silence and our own.
9. A Theodicy of Protest. If the Holocaust is a mystery, it is nonetheless on the surface a clearly unjust and wicked horror that God should have prevented. What does this then reveal about the character of God? Perhaps God is capable of evil. David Blumenthal has argued that an analogy can be drawn between child abuse and the Holocaust. Children of abusing parents can learn to eventually make their peace with such a parent but should never be required to abstain from challenging the parent's misuse of authority.
10. A Broken Covenant. The Holocaust is proof that God has broken his covenant with the Jewish people. One need not conclude, Irving Greenberg holds, that Jews can still not choose to hold to Jewish law, but it is now only on a voluntary basis.
11. Providential History. Some have suggested the Shoah had the providential outcome of overturning old medieval Jewish structures and replacing them with modern Jewish life, and that this is what needed to happen.
12. Vicarious Suffering. In the Holocaust, the Jewish people become the "suffering servant" of Isaiah, collectively suffering for the sins of the world. Ignaz Maybaum explored this shocking claim, holding that perhaps in the Holocaust Jews even atoned for humanity's wickedness.
13. Coming Messiah. Sha’ar Yashuv Cohen has argued that the Shoah represents the birth pangs of the Messiah, that the Jewish people are in the final days before the Jewish savior finally comes.
14. "Because of our sins we were punished." (mi-penei hataeinu) Some in the Orthodox community have taught that European Jews were punished for their sins, either for the heresy of liberal Judaism or for an unfaithful rejection of the Holy Land. In these views, the Shoah is God's just retribution.
15. One More Tragedy. Some would suggest that the Holocaust is not a singular event, but only represents one more horror in human history. From this viewpoint, Jews make too much of the Holocaust as a crisis event that changes everything. David Weiss has taken something like this position.
16. Jewish Reconstruction. The Holocaust is better understood as a historical tragedy, singular or otherwise, that must now be answered with Jewish commitment to the restoration of cultural and ethnic life. Those who survive must rebuild what has been violated and lost.
17. Christian Responsibility. Christians need to face up to the their history of anti-Semitism and the role it played in the Holocaust. Ben Zion Bokser has suggested that Christianity's exclusive view of itself rendered the German people numb to the moral repugnance of Nazi racial theories. Others argue that this culpability should put an end to any exclusive claims on Christianity's part or to any assigning of "second-class" status to Jewish faith. Supersessionism is no longer a credible theology.
18.Jewish Responsibility. Marc Ellis argues that national Israel now uses the rhetoric of the Holocaust to justify the oppression of the Palestinian people. The Holocaust should become a reminder to care for the disadvantaged state of all colonized groups. In a broader way, the Shoah is a reminder that to be a Jew is to be a chosen people, one that must carry out the covenant and bring salvation to others in daily life.
19. Jewish Witness. Jews must not allow despair to shut their testimonies forever. Memory and writing is at the heart of what it means to be Jewish, and the Holocaust is a temptation to hopelessness and to the secular Enlightenment, a project wholly discredited by the Shoah. It is better to keep one's Jewish identity and belief in the face of this. Even God cannot rob Jews of this loyalty.
20. God's Female Face. God was not absent in the Holocaust, rather present in the face of female Jewish sufferers, who by covering themselves and holding to their dignity were bringing the Jewish God into Auschwitz. Melissa Raphael has made this position part of the current Jewish discussion.
21. No Theology nach Auschwitz. Any attempt at theology totalizes the ultimate horror, and by doing so, it lessens the suffering of what happened, as well as opening up humanity to ultimately excusing it and letting it happen again. For some this is a radical negation of any attempt to explain, while for others it is a simple dismissal of religious attempts at an answer. Any talk of God's justice or love makes a mockery of what happened in the Shoah.
The holocaust is where Jewish Theology ends and reality begins for the Jews.
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@Tarik
The Old Testament is the foundation on which the New Testament gets its credibility.
How so when the two are completely different?
Together the Old Testament and the New Testament make up the Holy Bible. The Old Testament contains the sacred scriptures of the Jewish faith, while Christianity draws on both Old and New Testaments, interpreting the New Testament as the fulfilment of the prophecies of the Old.
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@Tarik
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@SkepticalOne
How many times do you plan to move the goalposts?
I’m not, your just begging the question.
God doesn't provide a justification for survival anyway.
There are some that believe suicide is a sin.
The Bible can be interpreted in many different ways, nonetheless there are some people that would classify themself as religious but don’t believe in the God depicted in The Bible.
According to your holy book, your god condoned slavery and has/had a chosen people. You have a twisted notion of fair and equal. Again, your particular deity does not justify fair and equal.
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@Tarik
--> @Elliott
What is considered a strength is a matter of perception and opinion, it is subjective.
And so is yours when you say
so there would be little point in it.
Not all believers always have faith, some converted.
So why are they still arguing about God?
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