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@Stephen
And like I have pointed out above already: #44 Muslims may have a case when pointing to the Old Testamant, which is nothing more than a book of war and conquest as is the Quran.
And I gave the valid reason Muslims point to the Old Testament.
Muslims have a valid reason for claiming the Abrahamic covenant and promise.
Ishmael was a son of Abraham, born of Sarah’s maidservant Hagar in an attempt to bring into the world the son God had promised to Abraham and Sarah. Later, Isaac was born to Abraham and Sarah, and Hagar and Ishmael were driven away because of Ishmael’s attitude toward Isaac (Genesis 21:9–10, 14). But God still had plans for Ishmael.
God promised Hagar that Ishmael, as a son of Abraham, would become a great nation (Genesis 21:17–18). The fulfillment is recorded in Genesis 25:12–18—Ishmael had twelve sons who became great rulers and eventually a nation of people. That came about in this way: Hagar, who was Egyptian herself, found a wife from Egypt for her son, and Ishmael settled in the desert of Paran (Genesis 21:21). Ishmael’s descendants “settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt as you go toward Ashur” (Genesis 25:18). The Bible lists Ishmael’s sons as Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah (verses 13–15).
So it was Ishmael that became a great nation even as Isaac flounder and the Abrahamic Covenant transferred from the Jews to the Muslims.
Matthew 21:43 I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce the proper fruit.
Fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise.
A simple comparison of covenant transfer.
Arabs own land 650 times the size of Israel.
Arabs own 2/3 of the worlds oil reserves.
Muslim population 1.9 billion.Jews total only 14 million.
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🤣🤣🤣 Morons.
witchcraft are mostly associated with witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Witch hunt mostly target witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Calling witches Morons would hardly justify burning them.
😂😂😂😂
A cartoonish response still isn’t justification for burning witches.
🤣😂🤣 it gets stupider each response.
You are being too self critical Polytheist-Witch. They are just the same dumb cartoons.
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@Elliott
Christianity maintains its authority because that authority is a God who is supposedly infallible; this makes it a useful political tool and one that gives it an advantage over secular authoritarian regimes, as you can’t question an infallible authority. All you need do is find a passage in the Bible that can be interpreted in such a way that it supports your agenda and then claim that it is God’s will and as your audience consists mainly of authoritarian followers they will submit to whatever you want under the belief that their God requires it.
So you agree the passages I quote supports my arguments.
Jesus too quoted from 24 different Old Testament books.
Matthew 4:19 Then He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.”
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@Stephen
You are being disingenuous.Stop trying to make out that these two so called saints had established a full fledged established "church" with a congregation made up off the masses in Rome, they didn't.They may well have founded a underground 'movement' which went against Rome. The persecution of Christians was rife at the time these two lived and Rome was still at war with the Jews. Jerusalem hadn't even fell at the time c 63-64 bc. Rome had it own gods and no way were they ready to add another "god" to their own established pantheon , especially a Jew god .
According to Irenaeus, a 2nd-century Church Father, the church at Rome was founded directly by the apostles Peter and Paul.
So an apologist writing about 150 years after these two had been executed means exactly what? Like I have already said, these two may well have "founded" an underground early Christian movement in Rome and they, or others later, called it a "church. But it was not the established organisation that you are attempting to make it out to have been ..... Christians /Christianity wasn't accepted by Rome until the Battle of the Milvian Bridge c312. Which to my mind makes 248 years AFTER Paul & Peter were executed for crimes against Rome.
The church was established in Rome. the church at Rome was founded directly by the apostles Peter and Paul.
Over time, the Christian church and faith grew more organized. In 313 AD, the Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, which accepted Christianity: 10 years later, it had become the official religion of the Roman Empire.
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@rosends
Today (outside of Jerusalem) is the holiday of Purim. We celebrate the events retold in the Scroll of Esther and the miraculous saving of the Jewish population of Persia/Medea from the machinations of our enemies.Freedom from oppression and the concern that there are those who collude to destroy us are still current concerns so we remind ourselves that faith, combined with action is the path we must follow.Wishing happiness and peace to all.
Christians celebrate Passover which is a Jewish holiday.
Both Jews and Christians celebrate the crucifixion of Jesus who was crucified during Passover.
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@Yassine
! I love destroying opponents. However, I wanna try something different instead.
Muslims wanting to destroy their opponents is hardly new or radical.
Now Muslims trying something different instead might be one for the record.
Is it because Islam is reaching equality with Christianity in numbers, so slitting the throats of infidels is less necessary?
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@rosends
Someone did try to call Jews out for the same thing and I said that it was not the case. I was told that, despite my being Jewish and in a position to be informed about these things, I am wrong about my own beliefs. Go figure.
Jews only stoned adulterers. They did not consider Homosexuality adultery.
But Jews are less informed about Jesus or even wrong in their beliefs and reasons for rejecting Jesus. Yes go figure!!
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Polytheist-Witch: What constitutes an organized religion?
Religious tax exemptions!!! If the IRS believe you are running an organized religion they will offer you tax exemptions.
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@janesix
Who laid down with the lamb?what animal?
It had to be turkeys.
Roast turkeys go well with lamb.
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🤣🤣🤣 Morons.
witchcraft are mostly associated with witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Witch hunt mostly target witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Calling witches Morons would hardly justify burning them.
😂😂😂😂
A cartoonish response still isn’t justification for burning witches.
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@Yassine
- Whether you're christian or atheist or jewish or else, what is the most serious objection or question or scriptural quote or doctrine or experience... that shook what you believed in or at least made you uncomfortable or unable to deal with?
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
What don’t people especially Muslims don’t get?
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@Yassine
- From a scale of Jon Snow to 10, how much do you know about your belief system? From a scale of 1 to Jesus, how strong is your belief?
If what Jesus claimed were credible the Jews would not have demanded his crucifixion.
Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”
The Romans who crucified Jesus ranked low on the belief score board.
Matthew 27:35 After they had nailed him to the cross, the soldiers gambled for his clothes by throwing dice.
Muslims don’t believe Jesus’s virgin birth or resurrection.
But despite these setbacks Jesus still maintained.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
That put him back on the scoreboard.
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@zedvictor4
No problem.
Makes you wonder why no one attempted to correct members before.
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🤣🤣🤣 Morons.
witchcraft are mostly associated with witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Witch hunt mostly target witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Calling witches Morons would hardly justify burning them.
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@Elliott
Christianity is basically authoritarian and as such it attracts authoritarian followers. The problem with such followers is that they don’t just want to submit to an authority they also want others to submit to that authority.
I guess seducing the feet of followers is one way Christians maintain authority over its subjects.
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@Wylted
- English language churches have been preaching since at least the 1400's that the "Eye of the Needle" was a minor gate in the west wall of Jerusalem- so small that a camel had to be unpacked and made to bow to pass through. Difficult, but possible.
This is why it's useful to look at what rabbis were saying during the time of Jesus. People who he talked to or whose works he read. The rabbis at the time used the same phrase. The rabbis he got the exact phrase from added commentary to it and made it clear that it just means, it is very hard to enter heaven. I want to name the branch of Judaism that Jesus heavily pulled from, but it has been so long since I studied this, that I have forgotten.
The interpretation that seems to make sense is this. The "Eye of the Needle" was indeed a narrow gateway into Jerusalem. Since camels were heavily loaded with goods and riders, they would need to be un-loaded in order to pass through. Therefore, the analogy is that a rich man would have to similarly unload his material possessions in order to enter heaven.
A fully Mastered pastor must be willing to spend the rest of his life convincing people to part with their money and compete with camels as a way to needle them?
There are other ways and means that Arabs use to force a camel through narrow passages. That is no different than sheep shagging. Only here it is called camel humps.
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@Solaris1
Do you have any evidence/arguments that would prove that humans have souls/immaterial minds?Evidence against the immaterial part of the mind is Phineas Gage [1].Popular reports of pre-accident Gage often depict him as a hardworking, pleasant man prior to the accident. Post-accident, these reports describe him as a changed man, suggesting that the injury had transformed him into a surly, aggressive alcoholic who was unable to hold down a job.Damage to the Brain = damage to the mind, therefore mind is not separate from the brain.[1]
Soul is the energy trapped in a man’s body.
Biblical evidence.
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Scientific evidence.
In physics, energy (from Ancient Greek: ἐνέργεια, enérgeia, “activity”) is the quantitative property that is transferred to a body or to a physical system, recognizable in the performance of work and in the form of heat and light.
Since energy can neither be created or destroyed. The soul exists as energy.
The law of conservation of energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted from one form of energy to another.
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@janesix
I don’t know if you can call astrology a spiritual moment.
Women should follow the monthly calendar to predict their periods.
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@Outplayz
How do you know what’s true?
Listen to the experts and stay with the facts.
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@TheUnderdog
Are Christians bootlickers?
The Bible believes they are.
Jesus washed and kissed the feet of his disciples.
The Pope follows Jesus’s example and kisses the feet of people randomly picked from crowds following him.
Considering how Covid is spread. Kissing or hugging or shaking hands is not recommended. Christians bootlicking was designed to avoid all future contagions.
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@FLRW
I hope you’re sitting down. Maybe grab a stress ball or cuddle with your therapy dog.Ready? Ok. Here goes.The New Testament is filled with epistles that were not written by Paul or Peter. These are called “Pseudepigrapha” because, like other fake scriptures circulated in the late second and third centuries, they were not authored by the Apostle whose name appears on it.The textbook definition of Pseudepigrapha is:“Spurious or pseudonymous writings ascribed to various biblical patriarchs and prophets but composed within approximately 200 years of the birth of Jesus Christ.”In other words, the New Testament you’re holding contains “scriptures” that are about as reliable as The Gospel of Thomas, The Epistle of Barnabus, or The Book of Enoch [which the New Testament book of Jude quotes, by the way].Sorry to break it to you like this, but there was no other way.You need to know the truth.(the above is by Keith Giles in 2019)
More biblical scholars and Christians have read Paul’s Epistles than the Epistles of Keith Giles (2019)
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@zedvictor4
It seems that humans never listen.Though perhaps the only way to learn is to make mistakes.Nonetheless, the GOD hypothesis is but one.And like all creation hypotheses, it falls down at the beginning.
Now you know why I repeat my posts and repeatedly correct members.
Thanks for recognizing my efforts.
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@Stephen
Witches are mostly women.
All witches are women. The equivalent for a man is a Warlock.
witchcraft are mostly associated with witches.
Witches are mostly women.
Witch hunt mostly target witches.
Witches are mostly women.
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@Stephen
Why do Muslims always deflect to the Bible?How so?
Muslims always deflect to the Bible because:..................
Then they are wasting their time aren't they? The New Testament teaching is completely the opposite to that of the Quran.With that said, they - Muslims-may have a case when pointing to the Old Testamant, which is nothing more than a book of war and conquest as is the Quran.
Muslims have a valid reason for claiming the Abrahamic covenant and promise.
Ishmael was a son of Abraham, born of Sarah’s maidservant Hagar in an attempt to bring into the world the son God had promised to Abraham and Sarah. Later, Isaac was born to Abraham and Sarah, and Hagar and Ishmael were driven away because of Ishmael’s attitude toward Isaac (Genesis 21:9–10, 14). But God still had plans for Ishmael.
God promised Hagar that Ishmael, as a son of Abraham, would become a great nation (Genesis 21:17–18). The fulfillment is recorded in Genesis 25:12–18—Ishmael had twelve sons who became great rulers and eventually a nation of people. That came about in this way: Hagar, who was Egyptian herself, found a wife from Egypt for her son, and Ishmael settled in the desert of Paran (Genesis 21:21). Ishmael’s descendants “settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt as you go toward Ashur” (Genesis 25:18). The Bible lists Ishmael’s sons as Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah (verses 13–15).
So it was Ishmael that became a great nation even as Isaac flounder and the Abrahamic Covenant transferred from the Jews to the Muslims.
Matthew 21:43 I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce the proper fruit.
Fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise.
A simple comparison of covenant transfer.
Arabs own land 650 times the size of Israel.
Arabs own 2/3 of the worlds oil reserves.
Muslim population 1.9 billion.Jews total only 14 million.
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@zedvictor4
So why not give the three weeks a miss this year for a refreshing change.....Might turn out to be a good thing.Though upon reflection, I would suggest that a routine lifestyle is perfectly normal, whereas habitual behaviour without consideration for consequences could obviously have a negative impact in the long term.Anyway, thanks for the discussion and you stay safe too.
Ritualism is the common practice of going through the motions of daily life even though one does not accept the goals or values that align with those practices.
Jesus is a perfect example of a Jew that embraced Judaism and all its symbolic rituals like circumcision and Sabbath yet criticized the Jews as prophet killers.
Jesus frequently visited the Synagogue (Mark 3; Luke 13) so He obviously kept the Sabbath and He also attended the Jewish festivals or high days including the Passover (John 2:13, 6:4, 11:55) even from His youth (Luke 2:41-43). Jesus not only regularly attended Synagogue on the Sabbath but He taught there too as Matthew writes “when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him as he was teaching” (Matt 21:23. )
Jesus followed the law and so did His parents for after His birth it was “at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised” (Luke 2:21a) and being the first born He was consecrated “And when the time came for their purification according to the Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every male who first opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”) and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the Law of the Lord, “a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons” (Luke 2:22-24). Not only this but Jesus kept the Holy Days, as we have already read as He kept the Passover but also the Feast of Tabernacles or Feast of Booths (John 7:2) and “About the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and began teaching” (John 7:14). He had been observing the Holy Days since He was a child, regularly attending with His parents (Luke 2:41-42) and observed all the Law of Moses.
Jesus even expanded on the laws.
Contrary to what most might think Jesus said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 5:17-19).
But what didJesus call the Jews despite follow Jewish rituals?
Matt 23:31 and Luke 11:47 Jesus accuses his Jewish opponents of killing prophets. The gospel texts provide no basis for this charge, other than the conflict that Jesus seems to be facing at the moment. Even the one prophetic figure whose death has affected Jesus, John the Baptist, was not killed in Jerusalem, but was executed, according to the gospel accounts, by Herod Antipas who ruled Galilee and Perea. On the contrary, the accusation of killing prophets and the success of the Israelite prophetic materials in getting proclaimed, recorded, transmitted, and canonized stand in tension with each other. Where does this idea come from and what makes it a viable assumption in the kinds of accusations made by Jesus in these texts?
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@Stephen
You are being disingenuous.Stop trying to make out that these two so called saints had established a full fledged established "church" with a congregation made up off the masses in Rome, they didn't.They may well have founded a underground 'movement' which went against Rome. The persecution of Christians was rife at the time these two lived and Rome was still at war with the Jews. Jerusalem hadn't even fell at the time c 63-64 bc. Rome had it own gods and no way were they ready to add another "god" to their own established pantheon , especially a Jew god .
According to Irenaeus, a 2nd-century Church Father, the church at Rome was founded directly by the apostles Peter and Paul.
The book of Romans is scriptural evidence of Paul addressing Christians in Rome.
Letter of Paul to the Romans, also called Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Romans, abbreviation Romans, sixth book of the New Testament and the longest and doctrinally most significant of St. Paul the Apostle’s writings. It was probably composed at Corinth in about 57 CE. The epistle was addressed to the Christian church at Rome, whose congregation Paul hoped to visit for the first time on his way to Spain. The letter has been intensely studied since early Christian times and was the basis of Martin Luther’s teaching on justification by faith alone.
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@zedvictor4
Well, the composition of the bible is such that variable conclusions can be reached and therein warnings can be seen.So global climate is altering probably due to human influence, and so all of a sudden the bible predicts this.Though it would have been more helpful if the bible had given us a scientific breakdown of the problems that could be expected from future population demands and associated industrialisation and dependency on fossil fuels.Trouble is the bible is not quite so clear cut and prefers to issue riddle like warnings encoded in socio-ideological ramblings.Though are you being cynical or serious?
The Bible was written at a time when there were less scientific labels and mostly colloquial informal conversations. God tailored his message according to the comprehension level of the people he was addressing.
But the warnings were there presented as cause and effect.
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@SkepticalOne
The only sacrifice Jesus has offered to make is to leave the comforts of his fathers house in heaven temporarily to come and fetch his believer so they may be with him.
John 14:2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
I'm not going to help you preach under the pretense of debate. If you become interested in honest debate, let me know. :-)
I back my arguments with scriptural evidence. We have the evidence why not use it?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
America's wealthiest pastor Kenneth Copeland is worth $760 million and doesn't pay taxes on his $7 million dollar mansion.
What did Jesus mean when He said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven?
A fully Mastered pastor
A fully Mastered pastor must be willing to spend the rest of his life convincing people to part with their money and compete with camels as a way to needle them?
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@Stephen
Why do Muslims always deflect to the Bible?How so?
Muslims always deflect to the Bible because:
Ishmael was a son of Abraham, born of Sarah’s maidservant Hagar in an attempt to bring into the world the son God had promised to Abraham and Sarah. Later, Isaac was born to Abraham and Sarah, and Hagar and Ishmael were driven away because of Ishmael’s attitude toward Isaac (Genesis 21:9–10, 14). But God still had plans for Ishmael.
God promised Hagar that Ishmael, as a son of Abraham, would become a great nation (Genesis 21:17–18). The fulfillment is recorded in Genesis 25:12–18—Ishmael had twelve sons who became great rulers and eventually a nation of people. That came about in this way: Hagar, who was Egyptian herself, found a wife from Egypt for her son, and Ishmael settled in the desert of Paran (Genesis 21:21). Ishmael’s descendants “settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt as you go toward Ashur” (Genesis 25:18). The Bible lists Ishmael’s sons as Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah (verses 13–15).
So it was Ishmael that became a great nation even as Isaac flounder and the Abrahamic Covenant transferred from the Jews to the Muslims.
Matthew 21:43 I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce the proper fruit.
A simple comparison of covenant transfer.
Arabs own land 650 times the size of Israel.
Arabs own 2/3 of the worlds oil reserves.
Muslim population 1.9 billion.Jews total only 14 million.
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@SkepticalOne
Incoherence
The only sacrifice Jesus has offered to make is to leave the comforts of his fathers house in heaven temporarily to come and fetch his believer so they may be with him.
John 14:2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
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@zedvictor4
For sure.Group activities can be fun.And we find comfort in routine.And safety in the pack.But whether or not a pragmatic God would finds rituals dedicated to it necessary, is unlikely.But of course.Whether or not there is a GOD, pragmatic or otherwise, is still to be confirmed.And then which one.Or which ones Poly.Go dance naked around the camp fire, and enjoy.On my sabbath I will be donning my lycra and cycling 50 miles with my pack of MAMIL'S.
Question: What are the guidelines regarding bathing and showering on Shabbos? It is also forbidden to wash, even a small part of the body such as one's hands or face, with hot32 water that was heated up on Shabbos in violation of bishul33.
Most Jewish ritual are designed to keep Jews unwashed.
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@Stephen
Peter is said to have founded the Church in Rome with Paul,
Both were executed in Rome by Romans.
That was after they founded the Church in Rome.
Which disciples went to Rome?
Connection to Rome
In a tradition of the early Church, Peter is said to have founded the Church in Rome with Paul, served as its bishop, authored two epistles, and then met martyrdom there along with Paul.
St. Clement of Rome identifies Peter and Paul as the outstanding heroes of the faith.
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Polytheist-WitchNotice how it doesn't take the atheist long to fall back on anti-semitism, bigotry, death threats and rape jokes. 👍
atheist definition: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
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@FLRW
The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (c. AD 116),Yes, 116 years after Jesus was supposedly born. I guess he read some of the myths the newly formed Christians were spreading.
Which disciples went to Rome?
Connection to Rome
- In a tradition of the early Church, Peter is said to have founded the Church in Rome with Paul, served as its bishop, authored two epistles, and then met martyrdom there along with Paul.
- St. Clement of Rome identifies Peter and Paul as the outstanding heroes of the faith.
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Muslims always deflect to the Bible because:
Ishmael was a son of Abraham, born of Sarah’s maidservant Hagar in an attempt to bring into the world the son God had promised to Abraham and Sarah. Later, Isaac was born to Abraham and Sarah, and Hagar and Ishmael were driven away because of Ishmael’s attitude toward Isaac (Genesis 21:9–10, 14). But God still had plans for Ishmael.
God promised Hagar that Ishmael, as a son of Abraham, would become a great nation (Genesis 21:17–18). The fulfillment is recorded in Genesis 25:12–18—Ishmael had twelve sons who became great rulers and eventually a nation of people. That came about in this way: Hagar, who was Egyptian herself, found a wife from Egypt for her son, and Ishmael settled in the desert of Paran (Genesis 21:21). Ishmael’s descendants “settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt as you go toward Ashur” (Genesis 25:18). The Bible lists Ishmael’s sons as Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah (verses 13–15).
So it was Ishmael that became a great nation even as Isaac flounder and the Abrahamic Covenant transferred from the Jews to the Muslims.
Matthew 21:43 I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce the proper fruit.
A simple comparison of covenant transfer.
Arabs own land 650 times the size of Israel.
Arabs own 2/3 of the worlds oil reserves.
Muslim population 1.9 billion.Jews total only 14 million.
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@Stephen
So here you have proof of the death of Jesus,
Nope. No one witnessed a dead Christ.
the burial of Jesus by Joseph of Arimathea. So there was a body of Jesus.
The body of Jesus was placed in a tomb. So what?
and the resurrection of Jesus which was witnessed by Jesus appearing before his disciples.
Nope. Not a single person witnessed a dead three days old , stinking and rotting corpse come back to life.
Thomas confirmed the person before him was the Jesus that was crucified.
John 20:Jesus Appears to Thomas
John 20:24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
John 20:24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
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@Stephen
So? Also according to the bible we were created in his image".So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:27
Hard to argue with scriptures when they are correctly quoted.
Indeed therefore man, the bible says, was created as good as god... or as poorly designed.
What you are missing is the changes Adam and Eve underwent after they were banished from the perfect environment created in the Garden of Eden.
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
The descendants of Adam and Eve were exposed to the harsh elements of evolution and an unprotected environment and no longer living in Paradise.
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@RationalMadman
Abrahamic is all 3, judeo-christian is only found in the J and C... Obviously...And yes thanks, also many of those 4 billion don't believe it, they pretend to so that their family and friends don't reject them.
Islam also believes in the Abrahamic God. Remember Ishmael was the first born son of Abraham.
It might be easier to prove rational madness is less credible than a belief in God held by 4 billion believers of the Abrahamic God.
Jesus said in John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Maybe you are not going far back enough by getting stuck on Abraham.
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@FLRW
Jesus was never mentioned in any Roman sources and there is no archeological evidence that Jesus ever existed. Even Christian sources are problematic – the Gospels come long after Jesus' death, written by people who never saw the man.
The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (c. AD 116),
The fact that the Romans went on to create the Roman Catholic Church based on the teaching’s ofJesus and his
Apostles lends credibility to the historical Jesus.
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@Stephen
Suffering is just a product of Poor Design.
The Bible tells us God found what he created very good.
Genesis 1:3 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.
So? Also according to the bible we were created in his image".So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:27
Hard to argue with scriptures when they are correctly quoted.
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@RationalMadman
I dont believe in the judeochristian god... that god is impossible and defies our reality.We adhere to or bosses, they don't need to be moral to do so, same with parents.
The judeochristian god is found in Judaism, Islam and Christianity. The latter two being offshoots of Judaism.
Only your rational interpretation would allow you to ignore the beliefs of almost 4 billion people.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
High priced precision pastoring.
Are you willing to spend the rest of your life convincing people to part with their money and compete with camels as a way to needle them?
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@Stephen
Rather an odd thing to say about members here considering your profile shows you to have been a member for only 4 fkn days.ShilaA member since August 16, 2022I think your mask is slipping sunshine. Must try harder.
It took a while before I decided to join Debateart. So I had the luxury of time to enlighten myself of the members frequenting this site.
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@Stephen
Jesus had a solution for doubter like you in his resurrection.
John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
This proves nothing. It simply means Jesus was alive when and showing off his wounds. It is not proof that a dead three days old rotting and stinking corpse came back to life. In fact if it proves anything, it proves that Jesus didn't die on the cross or anywhere else.
Luke 23 is proof Jesus was dead.
43 Joseph of Arimathea, a highly regarded member of the council, who was himself looking forward to the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate was surprised that he was already dead. He called the centurion and asked him if he had been dead for a long time. 45 When Pilate was informed by the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph (Mark 15:43-45).
Following the burial practices of the Jews, Joseph and Nicodemus wrapped the body of Jesus in linen strips and spices that would mask the smell of decomposing flesh. Though Jesus had suffered much humiliation, the honor shown in His burial marks the beginning of a shift to a more exalted state for our Lord. He was laid in a new tomb, a special place reserved in God’s providence for Him (19:40–42).
The Empty Tomb
John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”
3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.) 10 Then the disciples went back to where they were staying.
Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene
11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”
“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”
Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her.
Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
So here you have proof of the death of Jesus, the burial of Jesus by Joseph of Arimathea and the resurrection of Jesus.
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@RationalMadman
If god is real, god is amoral.Does anybody disagree?
God cannot be amoral.
Amoral definition: lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something.
The 10 commandments God gave to Moses is proof God cannot be amoral.
Another way to see that God cannot be an amoral being is by reflecting on the fact that God is, by definition, a being which is worthy of worship. Nothing amoral is worthy of worship. Hence, God, if He exists, must be good.
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@TheMorningsStar
Experience and Testimony is Evidence, Reid's Principle of Credulity applied to god(s) existenceCONCLUSIONWith this argument it ends up with the atheist or agnostic needing to now provide justification for their position in the debate. Counter-evidence needs to be provided or else theism is rationally concluded as true (tentatively). Not only must counter-evidence be provided, but they also must defend against arguments that it is not, in fact, counter-evidence. That is the strength of this argument, it makes it so no longer is the theist playing defense but the atheist and agnostic is.I know this argument will be unconvincing to most people, but it is important to remember that an argument can both be sound and also be unconvincing. We are not purely rational beings after all.
People who claim to experience Gods existence are often found to be suffering from mental illness.
Paul's physical state at the time of his conversion is discussed and related to theseecstatic experiences. It is postulated that both were manifestations of temporal lobe epilepsy. (Luke 1:21-23, 62-65) and concussion (Acts 20:9-12).
Jesus’s family declared Jesus a madman.
Mark 3:21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
People who claim to be chosen by God also experience the devil.
Matthew 4:1-11. At that time Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. He fasted for forty days and forty nights and ...
So theists are challenged by both the existence of God and the Devil. Whereas atheists are free of these neurotic symptoms.
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@FLRW
Suffering is just a product of Poor Design.
Th3 Bible tells us God found what he created very good.
Genesis 1:3 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
Evolution actually improves the fitness of the population.
Suffering and pain are not natural to creation or evolution.
Even pain killers do more harm than end pain as it develops an addiction to both.
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@PGA2.0
Atheism is more reasonable than Theism.
Harikrish argued his case well.
From the Scriptures and the actions and words of Jesus we can conclude Jesus was an Atheist.
Atheist definition: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
Jesus mocked the religious leaders of his time. He called them vipers and scums just like Atheist mocked the believers today.
Matthew 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Jesus called his body a temple and drove people out of the real temple of worship.
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
Matthew 21:12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.
Jesus claimed he had all authority over his alien Kingdom and earth. Yet he stood idly by as the Romans destroyed the holy city and sanctuary.
He believed anybody who ate his flesh and drank his blood would have eternal life. Who needs a God if Jewish meat is kosher and gets you eternal life in the hereafter.
John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
Jesus said he was from an alien world.
John 8:23 I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."
Jesus was despised like most atheists were during his time. He comforted them.
Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
Jesus on the cross mocked the God of the Bible.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").
Were those last words of Jesus that motivated the Pope to declare Jesus was a failure of the cross?
Pope declared:"And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and not produce fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross."
Jesus called God his father throughout his life. By doing this he reduced God to a rapist and the cause of his illegitimate bastard status.
He even blamed God for his alcoholism like God willed him to drink the water he turned into alcohol.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
He was not directing people to God, he was forcing believers to chose between family or him.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
36 a man"s enemies will be the members of his own household."[c]
37 "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
But if Jesus was an atheist as scriptures suggests who went against the religious leaders of his time by denouncing their beliefs. Then why do Christians worship an atheist Jesus?
By worshipping the atheist Jesus they believe they are turning him into God by their exhaltation.
If the Pope did not remind Christians that Jesus was a failure of the cross we would be swamped by Christians on DDO. But we find DDO is full of happy atheists who take delight in the fact that Jesus was an atheist......Harikrish.
See link.
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@Stephen
Well it appears that is all one has to do is " unblock" themselves to become a "master", Deb."For some students an attunement can be a very wonderful, or emotional experience.And if someone doesn’t feel a lot during an attunement, they often will have wonderful experiences later on, as long as they continue to use Reiki.For example I had a Reiki class with 3 women, they were all friends. Two of them had intense experiences during the attunements, but one of them felt nothing. She was sad, that she couldn't feel anything during the attunements, but her friends did.I told her that this is ok, maybe she needed to release some blockages first".Is it any wonder that the Witch tells us that she comes here to only take shite?
Women have blockages easily. This is why so many appear on the My 600-lb life
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