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@blamonkey
I literally removed the atlas shrugged comment immediately after posting. It is not what I meant to write
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Melcher
Discretion is for pussies. Jesus will absolutely protect me from them . I have started to narrow down the person threatening me to the russian mafia who are trying to suppress the story that the documentary film make interviewing people on behind the scenes stuff in the online debating community. Apparently somebody is very afraid of this documentary film.maker. he has went quiet since the threats started as well
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Funny how you think high voting outcomes from mandatory registration is good though, most people are not qualified to make policy decisions
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@Marko
I clearly meant voter ID laws. How about this. Ge is pro abortion which kills 50% of black kids before they are born. I think his pro genocide views here should be good evidence of his racism
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Game stop is already announcing the closing of 300 stores. That is a permanent result of this. That is probably a 1000 employees who cannot find a job with unemployment at 25% right now. Without money to buy food those people will all die. Taking a couple of months off from eating is not an option
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@rbelivb
You have it backwards. There are some eco omists predicting this will cause another depression. You are literally putting more lives at risk by continuing to keep everyone on house arrest. Let's not forget that this also violates our freedoms. People died in wars to protect our freedom, and now we have young people sacrificing our freedom so they don't get the flu.
This whole couple of months thing is a myth as well. Since when do governments voluntarily give up power that it seizes? I have seen reporters predicting this could be a permanent way of living. No more hand shakes, face masks becoming permanent as well as social distancing, and a similar thing as bush was doing with terror threats for a while. So when we have a lot of people in one commu ity getting sick from this seasonal virus that everyone is put on house arrest for a while. A lot of people will die from these measures,and your blind trust of government being completely benevolent with no self serving people in it, to run your life is naive.
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@rbelivb
Oh, well interruptions to the economy can result in a lot of people dying from starvation. A virus might have a 0.1% death rate, but not eating again has a 100% death rate. It seems pretty cold and callous of rich people to want us poor black people to starve to death, just to bring down their mortality rate by 0.1%
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@Marko
No, oromagi is definitely racist. He is pro on voter registration laws because he thinks blacks don't have IDs, and are not smart enough to know where the dmv is to get them
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@blamonkey
You read a summary, the story is have heard before
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@blamonkey
More interested in whatever the hell the myth of sisyphus is. I already went down the other rabbit hole.
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@Greyparrot
Don't know why the think of whites as pussies, when you look at combat sports that closely resemble street fights like MMA, than whites dominate. However when you look at combat sports that don't resemble actual street fights like boxing whites do worse but it seems to show they are bad fighters, which is why they generally get scared of one on one fights and only fight in groups
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@Greyparrot
I can say as a black woman, not only do I not mind it, my pussy gets wet when a white guy calls me the n word
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Obama literally goes to war with american heroes like snowden (to name just one of many) who he literally tried to have extradited to America so he could execute him to censor him, and oro is sitting here like (republicans like ron paul, donald trump and barry goldwater are pro censorship)https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowers-double-standard-obama-david-petraeus-chelsea-manning
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How are those doctors financially motivated to lie about corona virus if corona virus is creating a warzone forcing everyone to go to health clinics that he makes a profit from them running to
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@oromagi
Trump has not told people to drink bleach or fish cleaner or anything like that. He has said things like, well this looks like it MIGHT be promising and then the media is like "DERP TRump said eat fish cleaner" https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/no-president-trump-did-not-make-anyone-ingest-fish-tank-cleaner/
If Your side has to lie about things People are saying, why do you think they are in the right?
Also I have no clue what is going on with Fauci and in fact whether you are being honest about whether members of congress are allowed to meet up with him for a discussion. I wonder if it is trump not allowing them to talk or if fauci just doesn't respond to all the emails congress people are sending him
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@Alec
I don't know who it is, and if it is russian mafia like I think the US can't touch them but they will send their american contacts to shut me up
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@Alec
It isn't the normal death threat. They are scared of me. They are scared I will expose them
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@oromagi
But it is not as if you are assessing the threats to freedom and taking a calculated risk. You advocate for increased threats to freedom (ISIS, pandemic) and call that love, which it ain't. The practical difficulty of anarchy is that the day after the government falls, the anarchists are always the first to swing from the gibbets leaving the management of affairs to Proud Boys and pirates.
You don't calculate risks to freedom and then take actions that harm freedom. You want to ensure the government is not being corrupted and playing favorites with freedom. The only way you can be absolutely certain the governments policies are not unfair is if freedom is distributed equally. YOu do that by applying the concept of negative rights. A negative right for example would not impose any sort of duty on others, since coercion is unethical. You have no right to force me to do anything. A positive right can't exist without coercion. I have a right to not not be murdered, but I have no right to force people to step in front of a bullet for me or to in fact protect me in any way. Not sure if I am doing a good job of explaining the philosophy of negative rights. If I were to prevent a member of ISIS from recruiting than I would be violating his negative right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. The "pandemic" is a similar thing. If people don't want to be exposed they can lock themselves in doors and avoid it while they wait for the rest of the country to build up a herd immunity which will protect them. I don't advocate for anarchy, I advocate for a nights watchman type state, although I am reluctant to even do that because it might leave some room for possible abuse of power as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty
You are completely trusting the government with this here which is disturbing, the reason the holocaust happened is because people trusted the government. The reason people are falsely imprisoned is because of the government. The tuskegee experiments happened because of the government and the harmless branch davidians were killed because of the government. The reason a lot of the kids I was in foster care were abused by their foster parents is because of the government. I choose freedom first and foremost. Even if that freedom results in my death. Better to be a free man than a slave. People know this which is why they fought and died to free the slaves.
YouTube is where you saw the doctors speak. YouTube supports the link in the OP to the press conference. YouTube actually spends resources to preserve the thousands of videos complaining about YouTube's censorship of the document that each troll copied from YouTube and now republishes on YouTube, so committed to believing what Tucker Carlson tells them to believe this week that they have forgotten to notice that they haven't been censored.
I did not click on any of his videos and never seen the video of the doctors. I assume I have to go to the dark web or something to find it. Here is another report of youtube censoring a video of a company talking about a potential cure.https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/americas/1587977834-youtube-removes-video-on-possible-coronavirus-treatment-based-on-uv-rays . they don't seem to have been pushing a cure or anything, but just sayig hey here is something that may potentially be a cure but maybe not.
This is a lie even Singularity does not believe. Singularity must provide some evidence that some anti-WHO video has been censored. The video linked to several times in this topic (the Dr's disinformational presser) is not censored on YouTube.
There is evidence that youtube takes down videos that have different opinions than those of the WHO, they admit they do would be the biggest evidence. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/1587564098-youtube-to-remove-coronavirus-content-that-goes-against-who-s-lines-ceo Why do you think youtube is lying about taking down videos they admit to taking down?
Youtube does censor. They do it through removing adsense from conservative channels while allowing the most radical left leaning channels to keep their adsense, They remove videos like the ones listed above and it is also established fact they aid the Chinese in subjecting their people to censorship. https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/google-china-censored-search-engine-2/
The whole reason you allow some criticism is because it is something that can be pointed to to prove you aren't censoring. Like a pedophile who also gives to a children's charity so they can later point to it and say "NO look I gave to a children's charity I clearly care about the welfare of kids" https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/11/epstein-donated-46-million-to-les-wexners-private-foundation-in-2008.html
Adding danger does not increase your freedom. Killing peace does not make you less a slave.
Freedom is dangerous. Those of us who value freedom accept danger. We know that less government spying gives us an increased risk of a new 9-11. We know that Unreasonable search and seizures means more violent people roam the streets. We accept the trade off. Anyone who would give up even an ounce of freedom for any bit of security, deserves neither. I have no ideal what you mean by the peace statement.
It is never ever okay to violate the negative rights of somebody. It is not only unethical but evil. I find anyone who fights against freedom to be evil to be honest. Freedom is good.
Now with that said, I think you are trying to do the math maybe. Thinking you can justify some freedom taking methods to protect freedom. This is the problem with people. hypocritical thinking. Taking freedom to protect freedom. It reminds me of the novel 1984. It also reminds me of when George Bush made a bailout to the banks, claiming that we had to violate free market principles to protect the free market. How about you just don't violate people's negative freedom, even if it means they might somehow lose some positive freedom.
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@ILikePie5
Surprised this post is still up. I am exposing everyone.
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@Barney
Are you with the people threatening me. Be honest? Trying to shut me up?
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@Danielle
@bsh1
@ILikePie5
@Alec
@Discipulus_Didicit
You guys were my favorite users I will miss you
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My life was threatened on this site. 3 obscure users who have accounts but don't participate in anything here contacted me to tell me to leave it alone. One gave me a link to a youtube video with a strange voice saying they would kill me, if I didn't walk away from what I was digging at.
I can't tell if this is because of me exposing the corona virus as fake, or if this is because I have been questioning the people close to Mike about his possible russian mafia connections. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I have been talking to a documentary film maker about some of the underground seediness of the online debate community. All I know is my life is in danger.
I think my ban was probably about this. Maybe ragnar was forced to ban me because he was threatened also, maybe he is one of them. I don't know. I'm scared though. I have a family. I came here to have fun, not for the racism projected at me by a certain user or to be threatened by possibly the Russian mafia.
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@User_2006
I eat meat, cows eat plants. You are eating my foods food and possibly contributing to the deaths of cows who have no access to plants, possibly making me have less food security
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@Alec
Just stop. This is why my fellow blacks don't want to join the conservative cause. You are letting the Jews divide and conquer us
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@Barney
How is it hate speech if it is being used to show oro is a racist. Which he is? Excessive trolling is stupid also, I was having a heated debate and my premises weren't touched. If I provided no premises you would have an argument
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@ILikePie5
But it is scientifically proven that they are all racists https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/white-liberals-present-themselves-as-less-competent-in-interactions-with-african-americans?amp
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Okay I noticed in mobile I can not see when the last post was. Made in a thread. Also the site name is terrible. Instead of debate art maybe like debatemebitch.com just off the top of my head.
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@User_2006
I won't ever ban you from this site, no Matter what you do
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I would take dangerous freedom over a peaceful slave existence.
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@blamonkey
I don't disagree with most of that. The way facebook and youtube treats their mods is disgusting, but the mods seem overzealous so I think maybe they deserve that treatment a bit until they get some perspective. For example I am pretty anti cop myself. We have black lives matter videos on YouTube showing policing shooting unarmed black men and breaking it down that are not demonitized for example, but when I see the same video talked about from a more sane angle such as what donutoperator does on youtube, than he is instantly demonetized. Seriously watch his videos compared to the same black life matters videos but from a different breakdown point. There is clearly a political motivation behind demonitizing his videos of the same graphic content and letting g the people who say "fuck all pigs" keep their monetization despite having the exact same graphic content.
I don't think a fairness sort of doctrine should be imposed unless it is just to allow somebody to have a voice, but certainly google should not be able to try and censor because they think it will help influence elections somehow (internal documents prove that is the reason).
As far as the ISIS security issue, it is beside the point. If it causes the complete destruction of the west, I am fine with it. I think the ideals of freedom are the most noble and even are worth it. Freedom is inherently good, and I u like some federal judges I do think the bill of rights is fine as a suicide pact if those freedoms are taken to the extreme. Our rights are more important than the consequences of having those rights. "Extremism in the name of liberty is no vice.:
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@bmdrocks21
What pisses me off, is I thought I did as well. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4065-how-many-will-die-in-the-coming-great-depression?page=2&post_number=33
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The S and G point is meant to punish people who engage in word salad, that is typical of the schizophrenia patients that seem attracted to the site. So before awarding it, people should ask themselves am I being a bigot and making unfair demands on non native english speakers or am I correctly using this to punish word salad?
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I don't honestly think ISIS recruiters should be censored either. I think censorship kinda says, hey we can't beat their argument so we have to hide it. It is possible ISIS is right and I am wrong, so without 100% certainty of being right it is unethical to censor isis
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@blamonkey
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@Stephen
I remember when global warming advocates said all the frogs would be dead. There is plenty of frogs, and now the government is turning the frogs gay, so they can die out and they can declare success.
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@bmdrocks21
Reported for the use of the word cracker. If I can be banned for using the n word to illustrate oromagi is a racist then it would be racist not to ban you for the word cracker
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@blamonkey
According to the law you can either be a public forum or a publisher. Not both. YouTube seems to be a publisher when it benefits them, giving them the right to censor content or a public forum when it benefits them, giving them protections from defamation lawsuits for example. So it does appear either youtube us not operating legally in that regard
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@oromagi
You are missing the point. It isn't about whether the doctors are right or wrong. Though it is amusing you choose your opinion on a subject by determining how many experts are on each side of that issue and picking the side with the more popular opinion.
The post is about youtube censorship. YouTube has been censoring videos that contradict what the world health organization says. It is literally in their policies at the moment to do so. I guess they think the WHO can't possibly be wrong about anything, but that is problematic enough, the fact is they have used a broad definition of that as well, and a drug company recently had a video taken down discussing a technique they were working on that could possibly help this situation. So I guess youtube does not want to discuss possible cures.
YouTube is owned by a very pro censorship group who even does China's censorship for them in exchange for operating in their country. Why is it ethical for google to act as an arm of the Chinese government?
I am amazed you completely ignore the problem of Nazi style censorship to discuss if the minority opinion of a group of experts is correct or no, with your evidence of them being incorrect was "well most experts disagree and experts with the majority opi i . Are never wrong"
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@bmdrocks21
Absolutely true. As a woman on the site, I can tell you I feel this sexism every day. I can't even figure out if the site is more racist or more sexist. It would be an interesting debate proposal for two sides to argue, one side for racism and the other side for sexism.
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@Danielle
@Greyparrot
@Barney
@ILikePie5
@oromagi
What oro said was inherently racist. Pushing policies that harm the black community is a racist thing. Ragnars entire ban on me rests on the premise that in order for racism to be real, we need to focus on somebody's expressed motives. His assumption is that people don't hide their motives. I think a better way to find out if somebody is racist, is to inspect whether their policy positions cause harm to the black community. For some odd reason this was easy to do when the policy positions were based on whether we should have slavery, now it is much more subtle.
We know that abortions kill 50% of black babies before they are even born. It is clear that anyone pro abortion is pushing a racist thing. However if I call somebody a racist for supporting the murder of "n words" than I will be banned.
It is clear that the "war on poverty" has destroyed the black family. Several studies confirm this. We have a correlation between efforts I the war on poverty and single motherhood. It is racist to push a "war on poverty " at least how the war on poverty is conducted now, but I will be banned if I call somebody racist for pushing a racist policy. This is absurd .
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@HistoryBuff
Why do you think journalists sensationalizing things means there has to be some big coordinates conspiracy?
The pandemic narrative while harmful over all, is good business for the media. Sensationalism sells, and the media is kinda a purveyor of perceived truth.
Dis you know members of the media knew of the Epstein stuff like a full year before the general public, but decided not to report on it because of prince Andrew's involvement with Epstein?
This doesn't mean there is some coordinated global conspiracy. It could just mean that a few people know the truth and just ignored it because it benefited them and because they have so much influence everyone took their cuse from them.
The media benefits from sensationalism, so it makes sense that they would interpret things in a certain way if it helps them. We all as humans have a bias. Coincidentally politicians who gain power from a "pandemic" and who tend to be narcissistic because narcissists seek that sort of power. Now have an excuse for a convenient interpretation of the facts that give them more absolute control over a population, and the fact is that it allows them to live out an internal fantasy of being saviors to the people they have control over.
When we get counsel in life they come from different angles. Businesses will often hire consultants in a crisis such as legal consultants.
Legal consultants will tell them to stone wall, keep their mouths shut and to reduce liability maybe even slow down production. Legal counsel will do this because they are o ly concerned about insulating the business from legal problems.
The business might also hire a public relations person who advises them to restore their pu license image from such an accident to open up and admit fault. Show the public the steps they are taking to rectify the problem and to be an open book. You see the public relations person only cares about restoring public trust and has no concern about the legal ramifications a business may face by doing that.
Businesses have many such consultants, it may be 20 suggesting 20 different things that are equally as conflicting as above. This is why you don't just give experts control over how you treat a situation they do not have a balanced view.
What the United States government and many state and local governments are doing is leaning on public health experts almost exclusively, and ignoring economists, legal experts on the legality of these measures and many more different types of consultants. These public health experts only care about one thing. Stopping any spread of disease at all. They will not ever give the green light to open society back up. We will all die of starvation from the eco omy collapsing and the public health experts will only think of whether it is 100% safe to open up, which will never happen.
We are only leaning on public health experts, and like the example businesses above who would fail if they only relied on one type of expert, we are following suit.
You see all the people who have incentive to believe in a very very dangerous pandemic, are pushing that narrative, and the general public are naive. Hell ragnar who believes the pandemic is real is saying the officials are lying and that the 4% numbers they spread are closer to just below 1%.
Read above what Stephen said. His wife is a nurse and he is saying that she is personally reporting that not every single hospital is a warzone like the media is saying.
My argument has been that this thing is a little over blown. I think the facts are with me here. Would you like to debate me on whether some of the media and some politicians have engaged in exaggerations during this "crisis".?
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@Stephen
This is the ahitty thing about the situation. A lot of these types of viruses actually become less deadly as time passes. They are using projections that are the worst case scenarios, while many experts who are equally as qualified had projections of deaths as way lower. Why did they automatically assume the worst case scenarios were true when that is almost never the case. The bad thing us that the ridiculously low number of deaths will be touted as a success by them, and they will never admit the projections were just wrong
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The media is free to do as they want. It just so happens to be that they want to be the mouth piece of the establishment.
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@zedvictor4
They make sure you don't show porn on public television. Private stations can do as they please
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@blamonkey
Increasing hospitalization rates will overwhelm medical institutions, which I'd imagine would not be good for the economy given our aging workforce
Literally shutting down society and not allowing people to buy stuff or make money to feed their family or pay rent is more likely to harm the economy than a bunch of boomers whose brains have become too slow to excel in their management roles, all of a sudden dying off and causing superior young people who can better adapt to a quickly changing world take their spots.
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I am being banned for using the word nigger. I want to make it clear that I have identified as a black female my entire time on the site and my use of the word nigger is entirely appropriate from a cultural perspective, though certainly non blacks should not be using the term, unless it is a sexual thing. I can get into some race play. With that said, the word was used to highlight the inherent racism of a certain user here, and to be honest most of the people on this site are racist. I would not have believed this before joining the site and identifying as a black female.
The racism is more covert than you would think. It isn't an active hatred other than a few exceptions that will be unnamed. The racism generally comes in two varieties here. The first variety is the inconsiderate nature of wealthy whites who are the majority of this site. The second variety is often in the same folks, but it is them looking at us as children.
I'll show some examples. I was arguing that the media maybe sensationalizes some things and that the coronavirus though serious id likely overblown. I also pointed out that the shut down could permanently harm poor people. However we had a certain user come in and argue that us "niggers" being poorer was good for society, as it would somehow result in lower mortality rates across the board but obviously mostly lower mortality rates for whites. I immediately recognized his racism for what it was. He didn't use the word nigger, but I wanted to use it in order to expose his closeted racism and lack of concern for how public policy will affect people of color outside of his gated community. I merely reworded what he said, but removed the coded language portion so people could see the user's true intent.
I don't even think this is the hating kind of racism, more like the indifference towards the black community and how we are affected by policy. It is not the first time I have seen this affect. Often liberals will argue for policies that harm the black community like abortion which kills 50% of blacks before they are born, or for them to argue for social welfare programs that destroy the family making it harder to get rid of income disparities between white and black communities. I want to say it isn't motivated by a desire to harm us, but by something even worse, an indifference as to what happens to us when these policies are put into place.
Besides the indifference, I am often handled with kid gloves around here. I don't know if it is because I am black or because I am a woman, but I think it is mostly due to my skin color. I am used to this. I have been told what I should believe in or who I should vote for. I am even told I am supposed to hate white straight men, despite them giving me the best sex of my life. I am not a child. My skin color does not make me a child. The racism on this site is out of hand and I am sick of you treating me like a nigger instead of a human being.
I have shown tremendous strength in the face of this racism, and I hope you guys all reconsider being racist and maybe checking yourself
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@zedvictor4
I live in the United states. The media is not heavily regulated because prior to the corona virus we were not a fascist government who would suppress free speech
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@Barney
@oromagi
What do you have to say about ragnar's video that sides with precisely what I am saying?
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So I am about to be banned, I wanted to create this thread in case I don't come back, and I have a couple of debate arguments I will spit out without them being completed, just after I post this. It seems to be confusing to people when I have argued that the government is not always being 100% honest with us, or if I say the media is often less than honest.
So if blindly trusting the government or the media is out of the question, how do we determine the truth. We do this by looking at what possible motives would be in painting a certain lie the way it is. This is just like mafia, where you can determine people's motives by what their actions are. I'm going to start with a non covid19 example of this process of determining truth before I get to the covid19 portion.
There is debate over whether the Branch Davidians or the government started the fire that killed dozens of women and children in cold blood. The government claims they did not start the fire. So we know based on this specific statement, if they did not start the fire, than there would be absolutely zero reason to lie about anything surrounding that event. This includes lies through omission or commission.
1. The FBI admits to hiding the fact they had pyrotechnics launched at branch davidians. https://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/09/01/fbi.waco/
Let's examine possible motives. Well the lie only works to make them look more guilty, so if they were innocent we know they would not make up this lie. However it only benefits them to engage in cover ups of things that actually happened not of things that did not happen. SO the pyrotechnics prove they started the fire. Or more correctly, it proves the only reasonable and logical motive for such a cover up.
2. The government claims it has evidence of the fire started by davidians because of tape recordings of the incident. https://www.wacotrib.com/news/branch_davidians/recordings-may-reveal-fire-s-origin-prosecutors-say-tapes-affirm/article_c8498afc-9471-57ec-b466-58a66021e985.html The problem is nobody has ever heard these recordings. They are not available to the public.
Let's think about possible motives for hiding the recordings. One possible motive is that the recordings are bullshit and don't exist or don't show what the government claims they show. I can only think of a few other motives, but those motives seem silly, illogical and just not the best motivations. SOme possible motivations like "out of respect for victims" is silly and incongruent with their actions in other scenarios where they have no problem releasing footage of victims, so some recording is harmless.
We can see the same things with covid 19 reporting. In other threads I have shown that the media has engaged in sensationalizing things. Like insinuating every hospital is like a warzone when the largest hospital in new york is practically empty. Or the media trying to make a story more engaging by pulling up some interesting stock footage instead of real footage of an event. We have evidence the media sensationalizes things in this case. Even some people who believe the virus is a very serious thing, agree with this.
Now think about why the media would sensationalize a story. There job is to report the news in a disinterested factual way, that is in depth and honestly portrays the story without editing tricks or sound bites or click bait article titles. If the media chooses a story to sensationalize what does that say about their motivations. If there motivations were to spread the truth, than you wouldn't need to sensationalize things to do that. It is only when you need to spread a lie that, that becomes necessary.
TKLDR
p1- people that have the truth on their side don't need to lie or exxagerate
p2- If you you lie or exaggerate, the truth is not on your side
p3- the media and government often lie or exxagerate
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@HistoryBuff
I think it is pointless to talk to you. You keep trying to side step facts and talk past me. You have failed to even acknowledge that the media sometimes sensationalizes things. While I acknowledge every fact you bring to me.
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