Total posts: 1,013
Also disc anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and therefore a retard. We should both take an IQ test and if you win, I will adopt all your beliefs because you are a better thinker than me, but if I win, you have to believe what I tell you. This is only fair since higher IQ people are better at thinking
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@Discipulus_Didicit
So you agree with my claim that poor people have a higher fertility rate than non poor people? I think we agree on that point. Now do you think there was more poor people during the great depression or before and after the depression? Also I am willing to do a live debate on discord on that specific subject at 10pm eastern on a voice channel.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Would you like to debate whether poor people have a higher fertility rate than upper class people?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
When did you become a commie libtard who defends government controlling everything anyway?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
My theory is not that technology won't increase, it is that it will increase more slowly. The difference between going 75 mph and 100 mph in a car. To say one speed is faster is not to say the other speed is standing still. Oro was claiming that my premises that technology would increase more slowly was wrong just because technology advances happen.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I showed you statistics that prove poor people reproduce more. I showed both international and national statistics. My statistics show you that people who are economically disadvantaged reproduce more than people who are wealthy.
So how is it possible that poor people reproduce more is true, while you are stating that you have statistics that more poor people in the united states resulted in fewer births.
Either the statistics were just better kept in the 1930s and prove that poor people reproduce less, or modern day statistics from wide ranging organizations such as WHO and the CDC are complete fabrications and in fact poor people have lower fertility rates than rich people.
So which is it? It can't both be true that poor people have higher fertility rates as evidenced in my stats and in your stats that poor people have lower fertility rates. Explain yourself
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@oromagi
This is an american chart that shows income and fertility are related. So it is pretty compelling evidence the birth rate will increase in a depression. Meaning a population drop can be attributed to deaths https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/
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@oromagi
Trading Russians in for Basilisks in not a credibility upgrade, in my book
This is a fallacy. "Appeal to authority" as a replacement for actual premises. We know that birthrates in recessions go up. We should expect population increases if nobody is dying. That was shown above. Applying his methods to a time where birth rates are declining due to better economic activity is silly, because we expect populations to decrease at those times if there is not an influx of immigration.
I'm also not sure why you are fine pissing away the future to save the present. If anything we should completely sacrifice the present to save the future. In fact I would not make a single policy decision without judging the impact 100 years from now. If the impact is positive 100 years from now do it. If it is negative, scrap it. This way we are leaving the Earth better than we found it.
You are okay killing 200 million people to save 1 million, because your theory is that technology will never increase. Would you like to debate if technology is at it's peak and will never improve?
The fact you think a depression will not stifle technological progress is laughable. Progress will happen, but it won't be as fast. Every year we push back progress or slow it, that many people die of yet to be cured diseases. Hell if we made the right calls 2000 years ago then we could have launched a space shuttle in 1492. Our ancestors fucked us over though. Let's not fuck over our descendants.
Don't scoff at the 200 million deaths. One of those could be your child, your mother, your sister, yourself. All because we sacrificed some technological progress.
I know, you think that just because a depression mostly hurts black people it is fine, but it really isn't. We may lose the next einstein, because they struggled to put food on the table, instead of living in a world without a fucked up economy so their family made enough to send them off to college. When I say it effects us all, I'm not joking. Sure you may think depressing the economy leaves whites untouched, but think about people like Neil Degrasse Tyson. Black people are nor inferior to us. Depressing the economy deprives us of many contributions that poor black people could not have the privilege of making.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
That is not true birth rates decline as the standard of living gets higher. You can't compare. However look at my post above . You can expect a higher birth rate when people are struggling more economically.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Yes poor people reproduce more. You can co.pare the birth rate of poor nations to wealthy ones. In the event of a depression. There will be more births. https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-rate/
Surprised I have to show you stats that are well knowm
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@oromagi
Is that a pro war on drug stance. Is every political side you take just one that coincidentally harms the black community disproportionately. One hell of a coincidence. What is your user name on stormfront?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I don't think there was a great famine and birth rates after an eco comic downturn theoretically should go up because people are at home to fuck more often. Not to mention the declining birthrates that naturally occur in industrialized nations. The richer a nation the less reproduction, the poorer a nation the more reproduction. So when the economy does well we should see less births and when it does bad we should see more. If the more that are supposed to occur don't occur than we can assume something prevented that
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@oromagi
So we are destined for another great depression because of this? Which will definitely hold back technological progress pushing back a technological singularity that may provide some sort of method to achieve radical life extension. 100s of millions die globally every year. If this shut down pushes back the singularity by just 2 years that is 200 million unnecessary deaths. I don't think saving 100,000 boomers or even 1 million boomers is worth letting 200 million people die
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@oromagi
So what makes you blindly trust authority anyway and say "hey go ahead and use these hitler like tactics at worst it causes a depression that only hurts blacks". I assure you that anything that hurts minorities will also hurt you as well
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@oromagi
I haven't heard economists speak on this situation. No economist has guaranteed it won't result in a depression which worries me. What if there are irreversible mistakes being made here. I would prefer to see those mistakes avoided. Some projections show a very very low death toll and the virus getting weaker with time. So there is a chance this lockdown will result in no significant differences in outcome. If that is the case the government went too far. I also have questions like, even if this is legit,if the government has the authority to do this,what if some evil hitler person becomes ruler of america and uses the power for bad, so we definitely want to handcuff as much as possible the power of the state
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@oromagi
The question is why do you continue to believe it is true after being shown that the data is false? Are you permitted to believe otherwise?
Why do you think I believe anything I say?
I'm distrustful of the government. I was taken from my mildly abusive parents and put into extremely abusive foster homes. I was with other kids who were wrongfully removed or removed too late after a sibling had died. I have seen the failure of government first hand.
We can see the results of the me too movement and Epstein as well as weinstein to know people in positions of power are evil pieces of shits. False convictions happen in local courts so even small amounts of power is taken by pieces of shits.
I want people to hate and fear people in power so hopefully they will stop giving it away. They will keep more from themselves, instead of saying "well here is a manufactured pandemic let's give up our rights". Just like what happened after 9/11. Kinda convenient every disaster results in less rights. Kind of beneficial to people in power.
Besides this internal hatred of people I power I am forced to hold in, especially when I am forced to interact with politicians or the wealthy, I have a few other issues that I think it is more important to push an agenda instead of facts.
1. A depression can push back a technological singularity which will result in a virtual utopia.
2. The philosophy of negative rights is correct and anything that comes up against negative rights is a threat to equitable freedom.
I also have another problem, that I think you guys are beneath understanding my philosophy. To actually argue my philosophy as opposed to pushing an agenda where I argue for what I think is beneficial to pushing those ideologies forward.
Also sometimes I just argue the opposite of what I believe so some schlub will do my research for me and I can copy and paste their responses and citations for use in a future argument.
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The problem is records in urban areas were better kept than perhaps poor areas like the Appalachians
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I think it is hard to come up with good numbers. Urban areas are less affected, and we would have to round up numbers from a bunch of rural areas since those are the areas without as much assistance as urban locations.
The people starving would not be on records after that and have a cause of death listed as starving. Malnutrition would mean increased susceptibility to pneumonia for example, but with less people working a lower risk of bacterial diseases would also occur. Oro thinks the depression was a good thing I think, and I disagree with it. I don't think we should cause another depression just because it doesn't affect whites too much. Given the expected increase in births as a result if a depression and bad record keeping of more rural areas, changes in population is fair. Quite frankly the way I suggested to determine deaths should be accepted without a counter plan from oro.
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@oromagi
The citation was used about the burning crops fact not about other things. There were people malnourished and cheaper food would have helped then but FDR wanted to increase prices which hurt poor people. What type of society burns food when there are starving children? At the very least he could have shipped that food to areas of the world with low food security.
Also all the evidence that economic interventionism is bad can be seen in the economic freedom index. The most capitalistic countries at the top like Singapore and America have high standards of living while the countries at the bottom like North Korea and Venezuela have low standards of living allowing us to easily conclude the more economic freedom a country has the better it does, sorry to burst your bubble. I'm sure it would feel nice to decrease freedom because more blacks would die, but I am personally a proponent of a free market and am not a racist who wants more poor people to die just because many of them are minorities
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I believe it is true if memory serves correct
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@oromagi
Yeah my biography is most certainly fictional. People don't experience poverty in the united States honestly keep being a piece of shit. I also understand why you are okay if a bunch of niggers die because we have another great depression. As long as some 90 year old boomers can squeeze a few more years out of their life who cares how many niggers die. Go fuck yourself racist.
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@User_2006
Italy would be good to blame to start. Italy was flying in people from Wuhan while knowing it was a hotbed and then staging anti racist events such as "hug a china man" day. We had liberals in New York doing a similar thing. We can also blame the response of boomers on cruise ships with a little too much political influence. Common sense is if somebody on a cruise ship had corona, then nobody should have been let off until there was no possible carriers. United states citizens over seas should have not been allowed back into the country, but we have this issue where liberals don't even want to get rid of illegal aliens so not allowing citizens back in would have cause a liberal uproar, but honestly this thing did not have to come to America. We could have shut America down to outsiders while not shutting it down to insiders. We did the opposite
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China was literally welding people into their houses and disappearing then to control the pandemic. They did more than any other nation could to control it. Their fault is in being too cowardly to face the truth. Disappearing doctors who warned of the pandemic as well as arresting anyone who acknowledged it's existence.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Yes. He doesn't like how a russian researcher arrived at his data but offered no alternative for how to test the number of deaths caused by people having no access to food because of having no jobs and also where FDR literally ordered the burning of crops because lower food prices would have saved poor people and FDR couldn't have that? https://fee.org/articles/four-myths-about-americas-great-depression/
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@oromagi
It is not false or ad hominem it is insight into why you could give a shit less if people starve and die. I had to go days at a time without food in a good economy as a kid. Do you really think I would have survived a depression. People will die? Poor people. You want to keep some rich boomers alive who have 5 years left and could give a shit less about kids literally starving. Let's imagine that I am wrong that zero people will die despite not have access to food. Why do you think we should give up our freedom for security? People used to say give me liberty or give me death, and here you are saying "take all my liberties and save me" . What is wrong with you? How come you hate poor people and freedom?
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@ATroubledMan
The primaries make up for that a certain extent and the fact the primaries not being a popular vote means candidates can campaign out of a few major places, and I think Trump proved that there are far more swing states than you might realize. Allowing a win by plurality or popular vote also allows for regional favorites that may even be hated by most people can easily win the office
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@oromagi
Why are you posting stupid shit about the no man left behind policy that has resulted in so many unnecessary deaths? I hope it is to mock that philosophy and not to promote it
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Oromagi gave the citation on his first post in this thread
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@oromagi
Probably easy for you to say. A great depression. Would be good to save people who have a life expectancy of 5 years remaining. I honestly don't want my children hunting and killing sewer rats. You are probably a rich kid who is insulated from the affects of a depression but as somebody who grew up in poverty. It is much better to be dead than to live my childhood, and you want most of america to share my childhood so some boomers can squeeze another 2 years out of their life? The same boomers by the way who voted incorrectly in the past and who are the exact reason we do not live in a utopia?
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@fauxlaw
Democrats literally called it racist when he took the few early steps he did. First they called the chinese travel ban racist. then they tried to spin the europe ban as racist. A lot of liberal politicians were insinuating that people were racist for social distancing early on when they were avoiding chinese markets where recent flights from wuhan were most likely to spend time.
Now that Democrats have decided the outbreak makes trump look bad, they want to extend social distancing indefinitely. I heard a health figure in charge of the response in Ohio say "We can't Let Up". This is insane to say we can't let up. At some point we need to let up and saying to never ever ever let up like she did is dangerous
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great ideal. Make it by popular vote so only the voice of large urban areas matter, that way the president is decided by places with really successful governments like Chicago Detroit or LA, and candidates only have to pander to those areas and can give the bird to everyone else.
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I saw stats that said the last great depression caused 7 million deaths. The numbers from the Coronavirus deaths if we did nothing at worst would have been 1 million though more likely just a few hundred thousand. However we have shut down the economy meaning we will definitely be causing the next great depression by doing this. Adjusted for the increased population size, this means we will kill 14 million people with this shut down. Here is my question. why do retards think shutting down the world to save 500,000 boomers is worth 14 million people dying over?
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@ethang5
I have thought about all of this in great detail so will answer below
1. If the scientist should turn off the server, it would "kill" every AI sentient "person" in it. Would it be immoral for him to do so?
In the scenario you listed I think it would be immoral to turn off the machine but perhaps for different reasons than you. We have people dropping dead left and right. People who would greatly contribute to society, if they were allowed to remain alive. Shutting down the computer here would likely get in the way of faster advances in AI, an unforgivable sin. Even if it happens one day later, that is still one day where people die rather than have their consciousness preserved.
2. If the scientist decided to experiment on a few of his AI entities in such a way that caused them to experience great suffering, would that be immoral?
Nope, We need a way to create artificial intelligence if it has consciousness that can suffer. In fact I think pain is necessary to create sentience. Without figuring out what causes them pain it could cause these entities to have less concern over self preservation. Self preservation might be necessary if they become super god like AIs, we don't want to deprive the world of God.
3. If the scientist decided to give his AI some "moral" laws, one of which was, "Do not damage the Server." Would that "moral" law be any different from the "moral" laws the AI's have developed themselves?
Morality as it is, is a social construct. Most morality comes from the weak to handcuff the strong or to create a safe society. monogamy is to protect weak men from going without pussy, the concept of fair is to keep weaklings from dying of starvation or lack of resources etc. some morality comes from the elite and only benefits them. things like no stealing, or deference to authority. They will have to have morality imposed on them unless they are grown in a social environment with equally competent AI to compete with,
4. If a few of the AI's develop weapons and begin to use those weapons to extinguish/kill other AI entities, is the scientist morally obligated to stop them?
No,, but it might be a good ideal if the other AIs have strengths that would be beneficial to us and we would be deprived of if they die.
5. If your answer to question #1 is "yes", please tell us as precisely as you can, whether it is the AI's sentience or it's ability to feel suffering that more morally obligates the scientist to keep them "alive".
Neither. Neither matters,what matters is the usefulness of their existence. We have no ethical duty to them, no more than we do to the bugs we crush if they make it through our front door anyway
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@WaterPhoenix
In co ops you still have leadership, structure and can get terminated as a group decision. I also think you come from an elitest mindset here. The average employee is motivated by taking ownership of thier job, they are trustworthy and have honor. I have supervised sometimes 30 -40 people at a time. I took over a store from a manager that instructed me when I showed up that the crew was bad. I gently informed him that no, it was him doing a shitty job. I simply created an environment of respect. They will respect themselves, each other and the guests. This made them happier, chopped service times to 1/3 eliminated a lot of shrinkage and most importantly people were happy to be there which meant they were more productive and the guests got a better experience. You may see me scoff at people here from a zoomed out perspective, but don't mistake that cynicism for an actual belief that is applied in real life. If you want to be an effective leader, which you should want to be. Then you need to stop with that ignorant elitest attitude that plagues this site, particularly in the self appointed as well as mike appointed leaders.you can't count on someone to be motivated, you're placing a bit too much trust in the honor or your average workplace employee. with structure, you're going to have to work or you'll get fired. without a structure what if someone decides to just not work? who's going to fire them?
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@Trent0405
There are a lot of worker owned companies that do pretty well. I have seen bakeries mechanics and grocery stores that were co ops that do pretty well for both employees and customers.
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@TheJackle
You said all vaccines are safe but what about some of the ones rejected by the FDA because it was determined they would kill people?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I think the point is saying that people should win by merit and we should strive to make merit based decisions when voting or choosing our VPs.
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@Greyparrot
Notice how biden has shut down debates with Sanders because he knows he will be embarrassed
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What in the fuck is wrong with liberals. Where they think people should get positions based on anything other than merit. Wouldn't it be better to have the first female vice president be picked because no better candidate for the job exists? Will Biden also put the country at risk by picking people for other positions based strictly on what their religion race or sex is instead of focusing on grabbing up the absolutely best person for the job? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/17/biden-promised-pick-female-vp-thats-not-patronizing-its-common-sense/%3foutputType=amp
Seriously liberals. Please start hiring based on merit instead of being racist and sexist pieces of shits
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Also what type of suck fuck is literally pro making murder of children legal? Especially when they justify it by saying that we should have open borders if we are against murdering children.
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@Barney
This did not age well,with immigration literally causing a pandemic and the death toll has not even started. It will reach 250,000
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Speed you should have just self voted. They weren't active enough to lynch me the next dp. I admitted to being scum dp1 for god sake
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I can't believe speed jumped on my wagon making it easier to just take him out next dp.
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Speed why did you help their lynch. You just take the L since I am more likely to fend off a lynch as some may fear I am jester. Speed you just keep playing dumber and dumber. First when there is evidence that you are scum because you didn't fake claim. Your stupid NK choice etc
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@Vader
Wait dude. Time to actually get serious. This is mylo
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@Speedrace
NK one of the people who actually bothered to vote and visit me. Thanks
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I am honestly co fused about why speed did not fake claim when the theme split is alien related memes and other random memes. So silly. The theme was figured out on gPs flip
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