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@Vader
FYI, I reactivated my Discord account before the game started.
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@That1User
A 3rd party JOAT with a vig shot? Pull my other leg. The only question is whether I should hammer now or wait for more people to check in.
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@TNBinc
Don't give out your role. There's no reason for that.
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@Intelligence_06
Pretty sure what he means is that our characters would be DART users. For instance, I might have Ramshutu as my character if I played.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Yeah, just got bored of typing about it after the first four or five threads.
I could tell just from reading the OP that talking about each part as you read it wasn't going to last. It's a long book.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Did you ever finish reading it?
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@ILikePie5
I still can't make up my mind. I won't be online for the last few hours of the DP, so I need to vote now. I may regret this or I may not. I just don't think Croc's scum. It's tempting to vote him for his inactivity, but I don't feel like decreasing town's chances just to make a point. At least, I don't feel like that at this particular moment.
VTNL
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And I'm the 58th best. I could be higher, but I'm generally too lazy to write up debate arguments, so I don't really debate. You could also be higher rated if you put as much effort into your debates as you put into the tournament debate.
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@TNBinc
In my opinion, both of them are only a little suspect, but that's something you have to decide for yourself. If you rely too much on others, you may find that you're relying on mafia. In this case, I'm town, but you have no way of knowing that.
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@MisterChris
Oh. He debates so much that I just assumed he was.
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@TNBinc
Oro is always in several debates at once, so don't be too hard on him on that count. That being said, it's getting pretty bad.
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@Lunatic
Remember in the MCU Heroes mafia when Bullish thought I was scum in part because of my "doubletalk"? He'd definitely be trying to lynch me right now.
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@MisterChris
I've noticed that as well. I have a slight FoS on oro, but there's no way he could get lynched this DP, and my FoS isn't strong enough for me to want to try.
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@Lunatic
Yeah, it's weird. Normally everyone, myself included, has scum reads by now. However, most of us don't.
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@TNBinc
One vote from being lynched. You will also see L-2, but usually people won't go further than that.
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@TNBinc
MYLO is MislYnch and LOse. It refers to when there are two more town than scum. In that case, if town mislynches and the NK (Night Kill) goes through, town loses. LYLO is LYnch and LOse. It refers to when there is only one more town than mafia, in which case town either lynches mafia or loses.
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Also, Croc has been at L-1 for three hours. If I was mafia, would I hammer? Maybe. I suppose that the mafia wouldn't care whether or not Croc is lynched if he's town. On the other hand, if he's mafia, they might be deliberately not voting for him. On the other hand, they might vote for him to look town. I don't think I can gain any insight from analyzing possible mafia behavior here. I'm trying to come to a decision, but I don't see anything that sways me one way or the other.
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What to do, what to do. Croc justification is weak, but not so weak it's automatically suspicious. I doubt he's mafia. I really doubt that. On the other hand, he is so inactive and non-contributive that he is a detriment to town. On the other hand, if he's town, lynching him brings the mafia closer to winning. On the other hand, there's a good chance that we'll have the same dilemma next DP. Chris has a good point about not wanting Croc in a MYLO or LYLO situation. However, lynching Croc as opposed to no lynch brings us closer to those situations. I just don't know.
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@Barney
@Vader
Gonna do a mafia award ceremony later in the year
In that case I'll switch my vote from MCU DP1 to Debate Tournament Round 1.
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@MisterChris
With Croc being as noncontributing as he is I doubt he would be Mafia killed until near the endgame... Frankly, I would rather not be stuck in a ELO situation with Croc as one of my only allies.
That's very true.
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@Speedrace
Also, if you think Croc is town, you shouldn't vote him. There not being downsides to lynching him didn't justify lynching someone we think is town
That's true. His lack of a justification has me questioning my read, though. I'll see what he says before I decide.
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</History Buff Mode>
While I don't see any justification for John Magruder being a voyeur, he was definitely a colorful character. During McClellan's Peninsula campaign, Magruder was tasked with delaying McClellan's Army of the Potomac, which had more than 120,000 men, with only 13,600 Confederate soldiers. The leading part of the Union Army, nearly 60,000 men, were advancing on his position. Magruder was a theatrical character, and executed a clever plan (I forget who came up with the idea, but the details were largely his). He had his soldiers parade around and fire their guns into the air and had his artillery fire occasional barrages. McClellan, who is correctly remembered for overestimating the number of his enemies, fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Rather than smash Magruder's puny force, he settled in for a siege, thinking he was facing a much larger army. This bought Johnston enough time to bring in the main bulk of the Confederate army. This interesting bit of history illustrates one of the main reasons the Union was unable to quickly defeat the Confederacy. Even though they vastly outnumbered the Rebels, they were consistently out-generaled.
<History Buff Mode/>
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@Vader
I'm not as familiar with Magruder, so I looked him up.
I didn't see anything that would justify being a voyeur.
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@MisterChris
WHY CROC LYNCHIf there are no major scumtells, lynching useless town members is the best thing we can do for information gathering and for reducing deadweight.If we define "Useless" as a member that does not contribute or have a useful role, Croc is the only one to fit the bill.Croc has contributed less than nothing and Croc's role is useless to the town... but at the same time, he is potentially helpful to the mafia.Supa makes additional points:1. A 1x role could be used as a way for a tracker to not go ahead and track them in the night.2. A Voyeuar is such an uncommon role. Pie uses common roles3. His justification is weakPOTENTIAL OUTCOMES:a. CROC IS TOWN AND WAS NOT LYING ABOUT ROLETown has lost virtually nothing and narrowed down potential suspects.b. CROC IS TOWN AND LIED ABOUT ROLELynch all Liars.c. CROC IS MAFIASpeaks for itself.VTL Crocodile
This is a good summary of the case against Croc. I don't find the uncommon role point convincing, especially since Lunatic pointed out a bunch of uncommon roles that Pie has used in the past. I've been going back and forth on this lynch for a while. I don't like it because I don't think he's scum. On the other hand, we don't lose much by lynching him and we don't have any good alternatives. Basically, unless another wagon gets going, it's either Croc or a VTNL. There is one other point in favor of a Croc lynch: if we don't lynch him, there's a good chance we'll be having this exact discussion next DP. I think I could go along with his lynch based on that and his inactivity, but I don't want to pull the trigger just yet. We have 11.5 hours to go. If nothing better presents itself and there's still a wagon on him, I'll probably vote Croc.
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@Vader
3. His justification is weak
He had a justification? Where? I must have missed it the first time.
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@Crocodile
What's your justification? Why is John Magruder a voyeur?
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Concerning the Croc lynch, I agree with Speed here. I doubt 1x voyeur is a fake claim, and I think Pie would be more likely to give such a weak role to town than to mafia. That being said, I don't think we lose a lot by a Croc lynch. He is persistently inactive, and his role is weak.
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@TNBinc
I'm often online to catch up on the latest posts even though I don't have time to respond to them. If they were posting elsewhere a lot but not here, it might be suspicious.
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@oromagi
Good example. I'd say Halleck should be about as famous as Ewell, at any rate.
Although, that isn't because Halleck was as good of a general as Ewell.
I call that an accurate assessment of Scott's Civil War performance.
He did come up with the Anaconda plan, which was the plan the Union used to win the war.
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@oromagi
Any answer to the above query from Mharman?
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Winfield Scott, C-in-C for the first months of the war, also wasn't on there.
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@oromagi
That list does have the most famous generals, but there are others that aren't on the list. For instance, Nathaniel Lyon, Union hero in Missouri and one of the first generals to die in the war, isn't on that list. Henry Halleck, C-in-C of the Army for part of the war, isn't on the list. Those are the only names I can think of off the top of my head in a couple minutes. There are plenty of others.
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@MisterChris
Wow you read through my first game? You're really devoted lmao.
More like I'm too easily distracted by the sight of a mafia game to read.
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@TNBinc
I don't think a random lynch is a good idea. We would have a 75% chance of hitting town.
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@BearMan
I had some really weird thoughts today, and I was thinking about them (actually not lying)
I have no idea if you're telling the truth or not. Either way, that's probably the most unique excuse for inactivity I've seen.
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@Lunatic
That makes sense. I prefer a DP1 lynch in general, but I'm not convinced that we should lynch just for the sake of lynching.
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@BearMan
@TNBinc
@TNBinc
That's true.
@BearMan.
Activity would be appreciated.
That's true.
@BearMan.
Activity would be appreciated.
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@Lunatic
@Vader
@oromagi
@Speedrace
@MisterChris
We've got one day left. Any opinions on a lynch?
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Reads:
Town:
SirAnonymous: Town. Obviously high IQ and impeccable taste. Scum team should be afraid of this mafia master. Or maybe not.
TNBinc: Obviously noob town.
Lean town:
Supa: He's been putting in good effort and thought. He seems to be pro-town.
Croc: A claim that crazy almost has to be town. There are some people playing who might take the risk to fake it, but I doubt that's the case here. I would like to see more activity from him.
Null: everyone else.
Mharman: Generally inactive, but wrote up some good reads. I've never played with him before, so I don't know what to expect. I
Speedrace: Helpful and pro-town when he's active, which means precisely nothing.
Lunatic: See read on Speed.
MisterChris: He seems to be playing the same way he did in his first game, which could be a good sign. However, he hasn't been mafia yet, so I don't feel comfortable classing him as town.
Oromagi: It's odd that he asked people to say which side they were on when he was Confederate, but I don't think it's enough to sus him. I'll keep an eye on him regardless.
BearMan: Not very active. I haven't seen anything either way.
GreyParrot: Impossible to tell, as usual.
That1User: Never played with her before, so I don't know.
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@TNBinc
I may have to look into that. You can ask him about it yourself, you know.
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@oromagi
VTL oromagi
I'd like a response to Mharman's read on you.
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Unvote
I think Mharman's reads are an useful contribution. Perhaps we should discuss the merits of his scumreads?
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@Mharman
Well, you have been less active than most everyone else. I'm glad you posted your reads, though.
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@Mharman
I'm at L-1. If someone hammers me without even consulting the rest of the town, I suggest they become the next lynch.
I would agree with that.
Also, I must say, it's pretty cool that most users in this game have been pretty active.
Yes...with certain exceptions. stares down nose judgmentally
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@Mharman
@oromagi
Moreover, in Post #23 he says "2 Union, 2 town", as if to suggest Confederates are scum, and that was the purpose of his question in Post #8. However, given how he is a Confederate in Post #84, there would be no reason to ask this question.
I asked him about that earlier, but I don't think he saw it. So let's try again.
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5 votes on Mharman is probably good for now. Let's wait to see what he says.
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That gives us 29 hours and 20 minutes to decide on a lynch. Should be plenty of time.
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@Lunatic
I generally feel like I get scum read in every game I play no matter what affiliation I am.
That's kind of my point. You play the same way regardless of your affiliation (at least until you turn into Galaxy Brain Lunatic and win with a crazy gambit). A lot of people here find your normal play scummy and scum read you all the time. I'm used to your normal play, so I don't scum read you all the time. However, I still have the same problem differentiating between your town and mafia play.
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