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@Lunatic
Yep. I hope he sees something the rest of us haven't, because no one seems to have any scum reads yet. Kinda makes me suspect you and Speed because you two are the best at seeming town.
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@Lunatic
Moving on to the next inactive? I've been considering doing that. Think I'll join you.
VTL Mharman
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@Mharman
Still reading the entire DP (and also taking notes)
Let us know what you come up with.
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@MisterChris
With Croc's new power role claim, it's probably time to call off the lynch for now and have him use his role tonight to see what happens.
Agreed.
As Oro said, it's testable and he can give us info.
I'm not sure how it's testable without anyone else claiming, and I don't think we need more claims. Also, role confirmation isn't affiliation confirmation. That role can be scum as well as town, so I don't think testing it gains us anything.
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@Greyparrot
The histories I've read (the ones I mentioned earlier) were kind to Longstreet.
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@oromagi
I agree with SA that the role is useful, testable, and not a particular suspect claim
I don't know about useful or testable. It's only 1x. It is definitely weird, though. From what I've seen, weird roles tend to be town more often than scum, unless Lunatic is involved.
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@TNBinc
You are allowed to, but please don't. Claiming this early is a really bad idea unless you're under a lot of pressure. Also, there are a limited number of roles that are normally 1x, so you just gave away a lot of info. Also, don't copy-paste your PM if you do claim.
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I can't make up my mind on Croc. It's such a bizarre claim. I can't imagine a mod making a weak investigative role 1x, nor can I imagine any scum that would claim a weak investigative role that was only 1x.
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@Lunatic
@Speedrace
What are your opinions on Croc's claim?
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He also said he's a 1x voyeur. If it's a fake claim, it's really goofy. I just can't see a scum chat that says,
A: Let's tell him to claim voyeur. No one will think that Croc would fake claim something that obscure.
B: Too normal. Let's tell him to claim 1x voyeur.
I'm more inclined to think he's town at this point, though not by a lot.
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@Vader
I meant role, not variant
I guessed that. I was more referring to the part about, "wait that long to think of a claim is weird."
Also, I looked up voyeur on mafiascum. Apparently it can be a mafia role as well as a town role, although it didn't say which is more common.
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Let's suppose for a moment that Croc is scum. I doubt he would come up with that claim on his own. However, his partners would probably know that town would think that and might deliberately come up with an obscure fake claim for him to try to get town cred.
If Croc is town, then he hasn't done anything that can't be explained by sheer laziness.
I don't know. He's still null for me. He is also still highly inactive.
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@Vader
I look at Pie's games and I see his past roles. None of the roles provided were as that unique as Voyeur, it is usually a Visitor or Tracker.
I don't find that suspicious.
To have that variant and wait that long to think of a claim is weird.
I can't figure out what this means. Could you elaborate?
I also think Voyeur is a scum claim. He can simply claim that he saw that a kill happened but doesn't know who it was that killed him. It's a role designed for scum to fake their way out of
Now that you mention it, it would be a convenient role to fake claim. However, that does not mean that it actually is a fake claim. If Croc does turn out to be scum, then there has to be at least one experienced player on the scum team who researched the role.
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@Vader
I have a feeling it is looking at game mechanics and such.
That's definitely possible.
I'm more confident in a Croc lynch after that claim
Why is that?
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@TNBinc
Not really. I wish I did have some ideas, but I don't at the moment.
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I'm rather doubting that Croc is scum and actually did the research to come up with that role. If he is scum, I suppose one of his partners might have done it. Even so, voyeur seems like a pretty obscure claim for even an experienced player to come up with.
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@Crocodile
That's actually a pretty good investigative role. Now that I know what it is, I'm surprised it isn't more common.
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@Crocodile
What does a voyeur do? I've never seen that role before.
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@Mharman
@Crocodile
More activity from you two would be greatly appreciated.
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I don't know if Croc is actually scum or not. He hasn't posted anything that gives me any indication either way. The reason I'd be fine with his lynch is because he really hasn't posted anything, period. The same goes for Mharman. It's not scummy, but it's also useless. I would prefer to lynch scum than inactives, but I don't have any scum reads yet. Anyway, those are some of my somewhat rambling thoughts on the game.
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@Lunatic
Actually, Croc did correct his initial post and say that he wins with the town.
Also, why were you saying that was the principle reason for his lynch wagon even though you also agreed with me that it was probably just a mistake due to laziness than a scum tell?
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@Greyparrot
Sounds like Pie stretched that to get the desired role, but I'll buy it.
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@Lunatic
If he ends up being town, this will 100% be the case. He admitted he was lazy in the last game, and boy that was an understatement. He was town, and he could have got me mislyched if he had actually read his full role PM. For context I was a vanilla, and he was a mimic. He copied me and became vanilla. That actually worked out in town's favor, however when the endgame came up it was revealed that his full PM said that if he visits mafia, he also turns vanilla. So if he had said that I would have for sure been a mislynch. That's just some context to his laziness, though in that case it worked out in town's favor as it really was just a coincidence he targetted a vanilla. I only recently came back to mafia here, but in stormlight he was also incredibly inactive.All this is to say I kind of agree with you that for all we know the PM structure mess up was laziness. However it also works out the other way, he could have equally been too lazy as scum to read the previous claims of how the structure went, and only read t hat first post from oro and made a guess. Or didn't understand the implications of it.Either way, and this is coming from someone who in general argues against policy based lynches, I think croc should be lynched, not just for the affiliation mess up, but because last game was an object lesson in how useless he will be. If he has a role claim that is useful to town, I may be willing to re-consider, but the only way we are going to dis-courage this lazy behavior is to punish it. From the last game he didn't seem to care one way or the other about people having an issue with it, and he was almost lynched because of it. If he ended up being lynched, I also would have been lynched because his role pm, and his laziness would have ultimately hurt town really bad. I am not dealing with that again, and think there is way more as of right now to suggest he is a good lynch than a bad one barring his role claim doesn't save him.VTL Crocodile.
Wall of text! Ahhh, aggression!
I do agree with you, though. I don't want to lynch him quite yet. We've got more time, and I don't think we should waste it. However, if he doesn't start being more active and we don't get any good candidates for scum, I'd be willing to lynch him.
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@Greyparrot
What's your justification for Longstreet being a hated towny?
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@oromagi
I started rereading the DP, and I noticed something odd. You asked everyone whether they were Union or Confederate. However, you were Confederate. So why did you ask?
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@TNBinc
I don't know. I haven't seen anything suspicious yet.
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@n8nrgmi
Why do you keep bumping these old topics that no one has posted in for months?
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@Speedrace
@Crocodile
He had identical PM structure in his last game
Did he indeed? I still don't like PM structure analysis, but nothing else is happening, so...
@Crocodile
Does your PM say "win with the town" or "win with town"?
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I wish we had someone aggressive like Bullish or Zaradi playing. Playing aggressively isn't objectively better, but it did tend to get things going. I actually thought about changing my style to be more aggressive going into this game because I guessed a slow start would be a problem, but I don't think I could pull it off if I wanted to.
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@MisterChris
And honestly if we have no other leads by the end of the day phase I'm ok with lynching someone who contributes nothing
I would be ok with that as well. However, we've got two more days, so we don't need to (and shouldn't) rush to a decision.
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@Speedrace
Is no one gonna talk about the fact that Croc said he wins with town?
I don't think it means much. For all we know, he could have just been to lazy to write the "the".
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@TNBinc
I don't know if either of them are mafia or not. However, I don't think that line of reasoning is valid. Put yourself in the mafia's shoes: You see everyone else is saying "win with the town." What do you say? You would copy them, of course. Scum hunting using PM structure is dubious at best, in my opinion, but even its advocates would admit that it isn't very useful after several people have said how their PMs are structured. At that point, mafia just says that their PMs were structured the same way as the town PMs.
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All right. Everyone's posted on the DP. Does anyone have any thoughts about who to lynch?
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@Mharman
And I personally know Mike Pence. I'm not joking. I win.
And I know a guy who knows a guy...yeah, you win.
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@ILikePie5
Unvote
Everyone's posted in the DP now.
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@Stephen
You spoke about what Romans & Peter of the New Testament says. You mentioned psalms,
I also provided evidence that those are God's words as well. Consequently, you cannot simply dismiss them. Please either address what they say or address the evidence that they are God's words.
Have you forgotten your own statement and your very dodgy maths?
These "maths" were a syllogism, although I did not directly present them as such.
P1: The Bible says everyone is sinful.
P2: The Bible says the penalty for sin is death.
C1: Everyone deserves death.
C2: God is therefore justified whenever He kills.
You can, and have, disputed the premises. However, there is nothing "dodgy" about this.
You spoke about ground being "cursed".
I did not. As I have said several times, the only reason I quoted the curse on the ground was because it was in the same passage as the curse on Adam. Kindly cease misrepresenting my argument and address the curse on Adam and the Scriptural evidence I have presented regarding it.
but not a single verse where we have god lord Jehovah - Yahweh - Jesus speaking himself and saying _` I have condemned all babies to death for sin '.
True. I did better: I provided a verse where God condemned the entire living population of humans, excepting only 8 people, to death for sin. Please address that.
I have provided plenty of evidence. The only response you have made to it is to persistently misrepresent one part of my argument and dismiss the rest with a wave of your hand, even though you have provided no justification for doing so.
Also, I apologize if I have said anything in a rude or offensive way. While I do my best to present my arguments respectfully, I am aware that I do not always succeed.
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@Crocodile
Is your character Union or Confederate?
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@Greyparrot
Why would Longstreet be a hated towny?
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@oromagi
I don't think I've read Shelby Foote's book on it yet. Now I need to find it.
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@oromagi
I would also recommend Bruce Catton's Civil War trilogy and James McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom.
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I think 5 votes on Croc is enough right now. We don't want to actually lynch him.
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@That1User
@TNBinc
Oh wait. There are actually two different generals that TNBinc could be. Don't tell us which one right now.
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@Vader
@That1User
Let's avoid DP1 character claims unless absolutely necessary. Let's also avoid openly guessing what people's characters or roles are as well. That helps the mafia more than it helps town. (which isn't to say that I blame That1 for outing TNBinc's character. He gave it away.)
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