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By killing Water, the mafia town confirmed Grey and removed any questions about the masons being scum. Thanks, maf! Keep it up, and we'll soon have caught you by POE!
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@drafterman
One for the money, two for the show...
<br>Here's something y'all gotta know
Wrongdoers fail, the right prevail,
Darkness crushed by three small nails.
Ok, I'm done quoting 90s metal songs.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I'm afraid not. I have no idea what positions people take on Star Trek politics.
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@TheRealNihilist
So how about the data on the offensive gun uses per year so that we can compare the two?
I couldn't find a source that listed the total number of crimes committed with a gun. All of the ones I found said how many crimes of specific categories were committed with guns. From what I gathered, it was at least 300,000-400,000, likely more.
Does the same link have that data if not don't you think it is problem that you brought up a link that doesn't even compare the two instead only talks about defensive gun uses per year?
Depends what you mean by problem. If you mean bias, then yes, that site is very biased.
Meaning your own source can't be used for evidence given they missed out this important data and instead gave data that would suit their narrative. If it wasn't clear this site is heavily biased, it is literally marketing pro-gun books on the site. This is not an independent site more so fueled by an audience of pro-gun advocates. Both of these easily point to this site can't be trusted for giving reliable data given they are profiting on pro-gun advertising and missing really key data. If this was an objective source it would've shown the information about how long the firearms acts occurred.
Thou dost protest too much. Yes, it's biased, so it is less reliable. However, that doesn't mean that you can completely dismiss it. Furthermore, they did link their sources.
However, I did find a better source. It is well researched and makes its case far better than I can.
If you're concerned about bias, 538 is owned by ABC and rated as center left by Media Bias Fact Check. I highly recommend you read the whole article. It provides clear evidence showing that gun bans don't reduce murder rates.
Basically these laws take time to implement. 2005 was when this wiki stops talking about this would likely be the end of the firearms act of 1997. If we look at the graph you gave it was on the decrease after the law. We can see this by simply adding a dot to 2005 and ending it where your graph ends. If we use a ruler to draw a line in between the dots we see a negative trend. This can be caused by external factors that weren't the firearms act which your site claims here "The homicide and firearm homicide rates only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004."
That's a valid point, but it can't explain the increase in murder rate following the ban. The fact that the guns didn't go out of circulation immediately can only explain why the murder rate didn't immediately drop. It can't explain why the murder rate rose after the ban, so that point is still unaddressed.
I don't really know what this is referring to so I'll ignore it. If you really want me to argue against it I will.
No, that was something random I ran across while doing research. I only linked it because I found it vaguely funny that HuffPo would even acknowledge that there was a gun control policy that didn't work.
Don't you understand the laws have changes and people have changed during that time in the UK as well? Meaning your claim that we can't compare America to the UK is not really good because the UK has radically changed as well?
Yes, I'm aware of that. However, the differences between the past and present UK are still much smaller than the differences between the UK and the US.
Isn't the idea of comparisons to compare similar things? American gun deaths vs UK gun deaths. The two things don't have to be the same in order to have a comparison. You can still compare without something being exactly the same.
Yes, but that is exactly the problem. They aren't similar. The murder rate in the UK was lower than the US murder rate before they banned guns. That's why it's useless to compare them. Yes, their murder rate is lower than ours, but that can't be linked to their gun bans because it was lower to begin with.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I agree with you as well. The Prime Directive was immoral.
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@Stephen
It took me a few minutes to realize this wasn't satire. Who ever heard of a fat terrorist?
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@Lunatic
Ok. Give me a few minutes.
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Here's a great article about this topic from the world's most reliable news source.
Warren Rejects Peace Pipe Offered by Senator Sanders
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@Discipulus_Didicit
My current job puts me solidly in the top 40% of Americans by income and I only work 4 days a week, allowing plenty of extra time to work on other non-job-related moneymaking opportunities. The prerequisites for my current job were "Have a GED or higher education, pass this 10 minute reading comprehension test on the internet and show up on time a few days from now with the 40 other suckers we are hiring this week to take a drug test, do all that and you are in."
That's really a sweet deal.
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@oromagi
That really was a great speech.
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@Speedrace
Remember that Singularity did read S1 and could come up with a good claim. However, if it's a good claim, that is a point in her favor.
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@Speedrace
What did Press do that matches that claim?
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@Greyparrot
@Discipulus_Didicit
It made me mad, and I'm not even a Democrat.
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@Speedrace
How do I account for Singularity's claim? It's either a desperate scum or a Supa-style dumb town gambit.
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@Singularity
Also, this is my fifth game, if I recall correctly, and four of them were quickfires. I haven't had a lot of experience.
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@Speedrace
Whose claim are you talking about?How do you account for the claim thoughClaims seem to run this game
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@Singularity
Don't worry about me. I do find that the easiest way to get around an insult is to acknowledge when it's true, though.
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@Singularity
In all honesty, I don't have a lot of faith in me either. I have never once scumhunted successfully, and I've always been either lynched or defeated by a third party as mafia.
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@Singularity
If I were hunter I would target a town player to punish them.
So you would deliberately play against your Lincoln? That's not cool.
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@WaterPhoenix
She's actually claiming Restless Spirit now. The hunter claim was a gambit to get scum to NK her at MYLO (because we all know that scum NK people even though they know it will risk getting shot.).
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@Singularity
<br>Confessing is a town tell there because I thought the lynch on me was secure, and if I were scum pulling a gambit, changing my claim unprompted causes too much scrutiny to be worth it. Duh
No, if you're scum, then being lynched would mean that there is no disadvantage to more scrutiny. It would also require you not reading the rules and not paying attention to how the last DP ended. It makes more sense as a scum pretending not to know the rules in order to get out of a lynch.
Of course, I could easily be wrong. You could be town. But even then, it's useful to eliminate you because it wouldn't be hard for the mafia to get a mislynch on you later. This lynch either takes out a scum or eliminates a likely suspect.
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@Singularity
I was online posting in other areas of the site.
Sure, but for all I know, the mafia chat is on Discord.
It would have meant town didn't lose a vote after the mylo NK obviously and sad I have to spell that out.
Town would have a majority already, so this gambit would only be of marginal use. Furthermore, it relied on you being NK'ed. That would be entirely speculative. In fact, the mafia would have to be idiots to NK a claimed hunter, especially when that hunter doubles as a mislynch candidate. The benefits of this gambit were small, and the chances of it happening even if there was no lynch train on you were even smaller.
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@Singularity
1. How would that gambit increase town's chances?
2. While it can work, deliberate lies never look good.
Confessing is actually a town tell,
Since when?
as well as starting the DP late, my scum mates would have prompted me that the dp started.
No, that just means you were offline, which has no bearing on affiliation.
Obvious town is obvious
I don't like it when people say things like this about themselves. Of course, I am the guy who explains why it makes sense for me to be scum on a regular basis, so that probably doesn't mean anything.
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@Singularity
Do you have any response to this?
Secondly, are you saying that you deliberately lied about being a hunter because it was a gambit to make the mafia kill you at MYLO so town would have an extra vote? This is quite the stretch, and it screams of desperate scum. Also, it is a huge red flag if someone is lying.
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@Stronn
+1. I don't understand how anyone can look at the world's richest country can think that their economic system is failing.Reading this I couldn't help but wonder what world you are living in. The one I live in does not resemble what you describe at all. The job market is so good now that employers are having trouble finding warm bodies to fill positions. The standard of living in the U.S. is better than it ever has been. I don't see how anyone could call this a systemic failure.
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@Singularity
It is outside the game influence. Also, if you are going to offer people revealing pictures, I don't think you have any legitimate reasons to be annoyed by people who find that less than savory.
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@Singularity
Firstly, stop worrying about me not voting. I will have a vote placed before time runs out.
on the off chance I survived to MYLO it incentivizes scum to choose me as the NK in that situation, giving town more power than if they killed some other random person. I honestly would not have even admitted it by this point but I thought speed's vote ended the DP
Secondly, are you saying that you deliberately lied about being a hunter because it was a gambit to make the mafia kill you at MYLO so town would have an extra vote? This is quite the stretch, and it screams of desperate scum. Also, it is a huge red flag if someone is lying.
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@Singularity
Why did you call yourself the head hunter if you're really the restless spirit?
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@drafterman
Am I still allowed to change my vote, or is it too late now that Singularity got hammered?
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@Singularity
If you're a hunter, can't you just shoot Ragnar?
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@Singularity
The DP won't end until everyone has voted.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Yes. It would die as scum.
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@Barney
@ILikePie5
What are your thoughts? Activity and some voices of reason would be good.
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I'm down to lynch any of my scum reads. I don't like it, but I don't see any better options.
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Town:
SirAnonymous: I know I'm town.
Lean Town:
SupaDudz Drafter BULLETPROOF: I read his posts in DP1, and he did have some pro-town effort. Also, he did say in one of his first posts that his justification, character, and role fit together well. This lines up excellently with his DP2 claim. His claim, and the early statement about his claim, are strong points in his favor. He does have a much higher degree of misreading and weak logic, but I see no scum motivation for that, and it's typical for him. He does seem to be genuinely scumhunting.
Water sui_generis MASON: He's been somewhat active. His play has been pro-town. His claim is good, especially given the lack of any claimed power roles other than BP. I don't like how he was a 1x recruiter. However, I'll buy it for the moment.
Greyparrot Shab MASON: His play has been bad, and his logic has been dreadful. (Sorry, GP, I'm not trying to be mean. Honesty is needed to find scum.) However, his claim is excellent. Furthermore, and most importantly, he is tied to Water. They have the same affiliation.
Null:
Speedrace: He's posted a lot of fluff, but that's fairly typical of him. He has made some substantive posts and just posted some reads. On the negative side, I really don't like how he suggested a mass claim in DP1. He said it was to generate activity, and that has become a common strategy in QFs. Still, I don't like it. His overall behavior seems towny, but it always does, even when he's scum.
ILikePie: He's contributed about 10 posts. Typical, but impossible to get a read on him.
Lean Scum: .
Singularity: I don't like her attempts to argue that DP1 should have been ended a lot sooner with an immediate lynch on oro. I understand the reasoning, and that could be the meta where she's from, but I don't like it. I don't like how she hasn't explained her reasoning for voting against Ragnar, although I'm not necessarily disagreeing with her. She leans scum, but this is a weak read. .
Ragnar Warren VANILLA: Firstly, this post seems a little weird. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3532/post_links/149873 It seems to imply that he was considering opposing the oro lynch, which doesn't sound towny to me. I don't like how he's playing. It feels manufactured, but that could be normal. However, I don't know if that's normal, because, so far as I can tell, he's never played as town on DART. I do know that he is good at looking town when he's scum, so it's hard to get a good read on him. I just don't like his play.
Zaradi: As I reread his posts, I noticed that there seemed to be a lack of substance. There was some, but I didn't like the ratio between substance and fluff. Based off what I remember from the one game I played with him, that could be normal as well. I also don't like this post: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3561/post_links/151327. It seems like mafia trying to get an easy lynch. Again, this is a weak read.
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@Zaradi
BP is one of the easiest roles to fake claim because to make it look believable, you waive the NK.
I know, and that is definitely a possibility. It just doesn't work with Supa psychologically. If he is scum and the mafia waived the NK, then he almost certainly has an experienced player as his partner.
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@Zaradi
I know. However, the alternative is incredibly unlikely.So long as an alt exists, there doesn't have to be a protective role.
Hence, supa isn't town confirmed because he claimed BP.
I know, but it is a strong claim.
Since his play has been almost objectively scummy, I'm far more inclined to believe that the NK was waived, regardless of if Supa, specifically, waived it.
There are two mafia. Unless the other mafia is the leader and overruled a kicking and screaming Supa, there is next to no way the NK would be waived. So far as I know, Supa has never waived an NK. He has done gambits, but they are always aggressive and never passive like waiving an NK. It is incredibly unlikely that Supa would do such a thing. The idea that the other mafioso overruled him doesn't seem likely.
My question to you is if you don't consider his claim, would you say supa is more likely to be town or scum?
Hard to say. He always looks scummy, to the point where it was joked in one mafia game that they knew he was town because he hadn't slipped yet. Worse than that, in the Lucid Dreamer's game, he scum slipped as town. Accounting for that, I would say he's null or leaning scum.
If more likely to be scum, why are you believing his claim?
Because it is the best explanation for the lack of an NK. Of course, there are other explanations, but as yet, Supa being BP is still the best one.
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@Zaradi
Because there was no NK. If Supa is scum, the only explanations for that is that there is a protective role we don't know about that blocked the kill, or Supa waived the NK, which is about the most un-Supa-like thing conceivable, next to voting for Bernie Sanders.
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@Zaradi
If Supa is scum, then either there is a protective role we don't know about, or he waived the NK. He has a strong claim. Why do you want to lynch him?
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@WaterPhoenix
Let me finish my reads first. I need to know what direction to head first.
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@Speedrace
That would take thinking. I just started writing my reads and noticed he hadn't posted. I'd forgotten that we lynched him.
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