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@Mopac
@disgusted
I'd be curious to know that as well. Either the Ultimate Reality is just the lowest common denominator that everyone agrees exists and isn't God, or it's the God of the Bible and everyone doesn't agree that it exists. Mopac's argument tries to have it both ways at the same time.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Nah, only until he's out of college.
Then just when you think he's done, he'll decide to go to graduate school.
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@Mopac
Any comments on this?
If this is a characteristic of the Ultimate Reality that Mopac agrees with, then it is an excellent illustration of my problem with his argument. It is undeniable that reality exists. Thus far, Mopac's argument holds. However, many or most people would not agree that reality, or the Ultimate Reality, has consciousness. So when Mopac tells someone that believing in the Ultimate Reality means that, by extension, they believe in God, or at least that they should believe in God in order to be logically consistent, Mopac and whoever he's talking to at the time aren't talking about the same thing when they say, "Ultimate Reality." One thinks the Ultimate Reality has consciousness; the other doesn't. So while Mopac's understanding of the Ultimate Reality is God, the other person's isn't. Calling them the same name doesn't make them the same.
It wouldn't have to be consciousness. Any characteristic of God - personal, merciful, omnipotent, etc. - would have the same logic. My point is that your argument only works if the person you're talking to has the same understanding of the Ultimate Reality that you do. Since most atheists/agnostics don't think reality is a being, let alone a divine Being, your argument fails from the get-go.
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@EtrnlVw
@Mopac
What characteristics does it have?Consciousness, awareness to start with.
If this is a characteristic of the Ultimate Reality that Mopac agrees with, then it is an excellent illustration of my problem with his argument. It is undeniable that reality exists. Thus far, Mopac's argument holds. However, many or most people would not agree that reality, or the Ultimate Reality, has consciousness. So when Mopac tells someone that believing in the Ultimate Reality means that, by extension, they believe in God, or at least that they should believe in God in order to be logically consistent, Mopac and whoever he's talking to at the time aren't talking about the same thing when they say, "Ultimate Reality." One thinks the Ultimate Reality has consciousness; the other doesn't. So while Mopac's understanding of the Ultimate Reality is God, the other person's isn't. Calling them the same name doesn't make them the same.
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@Mopac
it just means reality as it exists independent of our own personal observations. If God is proposed as omnipresent, which God is, it means the reality God observes is the Ultimate Reality....meaning there is nowhere something exists where the Creator is not aware. Basically everything that exists, exists within the Reality of God, God encompasses all that exists. There is no reality which exists independent of God, out of which all things originate. The Hindu description of Brahman is a great example of what we mean by an Ultimate Reality.God exists both within creation and independent of creation. All things exist within the Creator. So this reality as it exists within God is considered the "ultimate" as opposed to a fraction of it or a piece of it and nothing is outside of that, God observes all things at once at all times everywhere.Basically in a nutshell it's the conscious reality of God we are proposing that would be the ultimate reality. Since nothing exists outside of that or independent of that it is the ultimate, sounds cheesy I know lol, but it's actually legit.
Is this your understanding of the Ultimate Reality? If not, in what ways is your understanding different and/or similar to this?
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@EtrnlVw
Correct. Panentheism would be the correct term here.
Ok.
If I could help here
Maybe, but only if you understand it the same way Mopac does. Otherwise, it won't help me understand what Mopac means when he uses the term "Ultimate Reality." Let me ask Mopac if your explanation is in line with how he understands it.
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@Mopac
That doesn't really answer my question. You define the Ultimate Reality as God and God as the Ultimate Reality. That doesn't help me understand what you mean.
Could you please define "Ultimate Reality" without calling it God?
What characteristics does it have?
What makes it different than non-non-ultimate reality (presuming you think there is such a thing)?
What makes the Ultimate Reality more ultimate than the non-ultimate reality?
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Here's a good video on the topic.
C-3PO Crashes a Pentecostal Revival.
Trust me on this one.
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@RationalMadman
At least you got the medal for 25+ likes on one post.
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@Lunatic
I regret to say that wild zontars could not make me answer the first six questions, although I'm not in any way offended by you asking them. I just don't give out that kind of personal information.
Introvert, extrovert, somewhere inbetween?
Definitely introverted.
Favorite historical time period to learn about?
Civil War.
Favorite Movie/television show?
Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.
Do you play video games? If so favorite genre, or game titles?
I don't really play video games.
Watch sports? If so favorite sport?
Yes. College Football.
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@Mopac
That sounds pantheistic or panantheistic. Am I correct, or am I assuming too much?
Before I answer whether or not God is the Ultimate Reality, could you define what you mean by the "Ultimate Reality"? At the moment, it's quite ambiguous.
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@Vader
Congratulations. Now, where are a bunch of PressF posts I can like? /jk
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@Lunatic
Were you a previous debate.org user?
For one week only. Or ten days. I forgot which.
What made you come to DART?
I ran across it on an internet search. After looking it over and making sure it wasn't dead like DDO, I decided to join.
Whats your favorite aspect of the site (IE social networking, debating, forums, mafia, etc)?
All of the above.
What's your political identity?
Independent, but very conservative. I introduced myself as a capitalist to give an indication of my political beliefs.
Are you religious?
Very. I attend a Protestant church every week and do my best to read the Bible and pray on a regular basis. I'm by no means a type of super-saint, though.
Favorite hobbies?
Reading history, and, as the final four in the Survivor game found out in the Risk challenge, strategy games.
Does pineapple belong on pizza?
Absolutely not.
Thoughts on Iran attacking US military bases?
It's not a good sign for the future. It was a risk of killing their terroristic general. Foreign policy isn't my strong suit, but it doesn't take an expert to see that Iran and the rest of the Middle East is a irreparable mess.
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@DynamicSquid
I don't care either way. I just have one question: as a squid, how do you keep the sea water from getting into your BLT?
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@WaterPhoenix
I was knight by his majesty Tux, Prince of Penguins, King of the Internet Servers, and the Lord of Linux. At his command, the Internet runs, and it is maintained by his protection.
No, seriously, the Internet does run off of Linux servers.
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This seems to be a thing, so why not.
Ask me anything.
I reserve the right to refuse to answer or to tell you that wild zontars will never drag that information out of me. However, unless you all ask profane questions or try to seek out personal information, I will do my best to answer your questions.
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@Singularity
While it is true that a lot of Christians don't read the Bible, there are a lot of us that do. For my part, I find that the ones who read it the most are the least violent (not that I would ask you to consider this as evidence, given that it is largely unverifiable).
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@Mopac
But if God exists because He is the Ultimate Reality, then you have another problem: you have proven that God exists, but you haven't proven that God is, in fact, God. All your argument proves is that reality exists and that you call reality "God." However, reality isn't omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, or supernatural. In fact, reality isn't even a person. All you're doing is calling reality "God." That would be like me calling my computer "Bilbo Baggins." Yes, it would be impossible for anyone to deny that my computer exists because I'm typing this comment on it. Therefore, Bilbo Baggins exists. However, if this argument is valid, then Bilbo Baggins ceases to be Bilbo Baggins and is just a computer. Your argument that God is the Ultimate Reality does the same thing. It doesn't prove that God exists. All is does is call something "God" that isn't God.
Look, I agree with you that God is real. However, no one is going to be convinced by this because it is so obvious what you're doing. There are legitimate reasons to believe in God. Why don't you use those instead of an argument centered around a logical fallacy?
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@HistoryBuff
Well, Iran did commit an act of war against the US by attempting to storm the US embassy.
For a bit of context, the "Iran-backed militia" the article mentions is the extremely dangerous terrorist group Hezbollah, which Iran sponsors.
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@Mopac
Also, calling people delusional isn't very charitable, and calling them idiots isn't correct. People aren't stupid just because they're wrong.
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@Mopac
I agree that there's a God, but your argument relies on an equivocation. You say God is the Ultimate Reality. No one would deny that there is an Ultimate Reality, therefore there is a God.
Very well. Unicorns are air. No one would deny that air exists. Therefore, unicorns exist.
What just happened? I proved that unicorns exist, but only if you define unicorns as a mixture of gases that is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other. I've only proven that unicorns exist if we define unicorns as something that isn't a unicorn. Your argument does the same thing. It proves that God exists, but only if we define God as reality rather than an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, supernatural Being. In other words, your argument only proves that God exists if we define God as something that isn't God.
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@Barney
A challenge, eh? I'll do even better and make it 200% true!
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Welcome, new moderators. I'll be sure to write up a 100% accurate report on this in the Bard.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Of course you don't know what Supa means. That would require intelligence.
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@BrotherDThomas
SirAnonymous,I am on the road most of the time with my "Salvation Bus" preaching the true Christian Bible, along with my Greyhound Bus Depot Ministries, my Nevada State Brothel Ministries, and my ever so popular Nudest Camp Ministries as well, I have limited time within this fine godly forum.
Makes sense.
Let us not forget, William Tyndale was not able to complete the entire Old Testament before he was put to death by the Satmoc Catholic Church in 1536.
You're right. I'd forgotten that he wasn't able to finish it himself.
Therefore, I stand corrected by your enlightenment, and I can only ask why Jesus didn't inform me of this error in prayer.
It's not a very important error.
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@BrotherDThomas
Firstly, glad to see you back. You'd been offline long enough I thought you quit.
A far cry from the King James 1611 as the first Old and New Testament interpretation!
Actually, the first complete English translation of the Bible was finished 300-400 years before the KJV by William Tyndale.
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@Barney
That's a good idea! I wonder if I'll need a trigger warning warning warning warning as well?
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@Stephen
I'm not sure what the camera saw, presuming it isn't photoshop, but that first image looks like a backlit tree to me. I don't buy the pastor for a second. The Bible only tells us of one person who saw heaven and returned to earth, and he didn't go around telling everyone about it. He wouldn't even admit that it was him. Christians today seem so desperate to learn about heaven from any source that isn't the Bible. That doesn't seem right to me. People are fallible. Adults can easily make it up knowing they'll get plenty of money from the book they write about it. Children have overactive imaginations. There are a lot of people who fake miracles and supernatural experiences, such as Benny Hinn. While some are probably genuine, Christians need to be much more skeptical of them and stop grasping at straws.
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@Vader
While I don't doubt that he's talented, he's nowhere near the best. Yo-Yo Ma and Itzhak Perlman are still alive and well. The largely unknown but incredibly talented Matt Smith has released a series of brilliant albums with his band Theocracy. Michael Sweet is probably considered 20th century, but his latest writing for Stryper is better than ever. John Williams continues to write stirring strains. Ultimately, the "best" musician is a subjective idea. So far as popular music goes, Kanye could be the best, but overall, I think there are a lot of musicians better than him.
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@coal
Du lebst en einem wolkenkuckucksheim! I wonder if foreign languages are moderated? Hmm...
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@coal
Sounds entertaining, but I don't know if the mods would approve.
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@disgusted
Greatest in what way? Living only or not?
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@PressF4Respect
I did forget that. Maybe next time.
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@Lunatic
I've actually never been caroling, but it's still a great poem.
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@Vader
Thanks! Am I the first recipient of this noble seal?
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@WaterPhoenix
Yes, I see it as my duty to pay my employees so much that I go bankrupt. :)
If you really want in, PM me.
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If anyone has any feedback about what does and doesn't work, I would be glad to hear it so I can improve with each edition.
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Disclaimer: The below content is entirely satirical. Any events described within it are not necessarily factual. Any representation of any person, whether a site member or not, is not intended to be accurate or in any way offensive. Any use of negative terms or portrayal of any person or site member is for the sole purpose of satirical humor and is not intended to be offensive. I do not necessarily agree with any opinions expressed below.
Trigger warning warning
Warning: There is a potentially triggering trigger warning below. If you think that you will be triggered by a trigger warning, you may not want to continue reading.
Trigger warning
The below content is satire that may make fun of your own opinions. If you think you may be triggered by the satirical depictions of your own opinions, you may not want to keep reading.
DART Bard
Edited by SirAnonymous
1st Edition
NEWS
Mod vs. Mod Debate. Apparent Loser Gets Banned. Foul Play Not Ruled Out.
By ScumAnonymous.
Former chief moderator bsh1 returned to have another debate. Voting moderator blamonkey and bsh1 had a debate titled “Resolved: The US should institute congressional term limits.” DART user Whiteflame placed a 7-4 vote favoring blamonkey, and bsh1 was banned. According to Whiteflame, the debate was a “[v]ery close one”. Most DART users seemed to be pleased with the return of the former mod, but it was not to be. After the debate had concluded, bsh1 was banned.
Analysis
By Conspi Theo
At face value, this seems perfectly normal – until you consider one thing: bsh1 didn’t commit any ban-able offenses after his return. What, then, are we to make of his ban? Given the outcome of the debate, the answer is clear: the debate was some kind of gamble between bsh1 and blamonkey in which the loser would be banned. The evidence is even more incriminating because the voting had not concluded when bsh1 was banned. Clearly, then, blamonkey is guilty of some kind of foul play, likely in conjunction with some of the other mods. These facts go hand-in-hand with the apparent disappearance of blamonkey’s fellow voting mod Ramshutu, who has not been online for a month. There is a dark conspiracy here, and we, the users of DART, must seek to unveil it and bring down these corrupt moderators.
Mafia Wins Two Games Straight
By ScumAnonymous
The feared mafia has won the last two games. In Virt’s Mafia Game, MVP Ragnar played a nearly perfect game and won with a brilliant final defense. In JARGOM, Virtuoso, mod of the previous game, won as scum after town failed to find out Greyparrot, his partner and the game MVP, even though he had lurked throughout the entire first day phase. Clearly, town on DART is utterly incompetent. The last time town won was in a quickfire when Ragnar played a not-so-perfect game and outed himself in the final DP. DART is totally incompetent at this game. Mafia rules, town drools. MUAHAHAHAHA-oh wait, was I supposed to be fair and unbiased in this report? Aw, man!
Op-Ed:IT’S THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!
By Environmental Wacko
It’s a sad day for the environment, folks. After a few weeks off to have a celebration focused around the mythical Santa in order to avoid focusing on the mythical Jesus, I have returned and discovered the most terrible fact ever: It’s the end of the world. I’m not joking. Take it slower this time. It’s. The. End. Of. The. World. Do you know why? Do you want to know how I know? My NFL predictions had yet another negative week and my record fell to 27-31, less than 0.500 (I’d calculate exact values, but calculators use electricity,and that’s bad for the environment). I know I’ve predicted environmental doom in previous negative weeks, but this time I really mean it, and this time I really do have a 97% consensus! Get ready, friends. We’re all gonna die! The end is nigh!
Editor’s Note: The 97% consensus was of the author’s social media friends,not real scientists.
MEMBERS
Disgusted and SupaDudz have returned after temp bans. What a great thang!
Ethang5 has been temp-banned. That’s supa’ disgusting!
Singularity and Bullish have joined the site. Welcome! It’s a rather singular event for someone to join this site, but I’m feeling bullish about it. I have this nagging feeling that I’m forgetting other new members, but my brain, which is usually an iron trap, is toasted at the moment.
CLASSIFIED
The DART Bard is currently looking for more writers. We are especially interested in hiring members of the following positions:
International Reporter (News from other debate websites)
Current Events Reporter (Additional reporter to write articles on debates,forum posts, members, and other events)
Both positions pay approximately $0.00 an hour with potential bonuses of $0.00 per article. Writers are expected to submit at least one article per month and should expect editor input on articles. Some articles may be rejected or be returned with a request for rewriting,or otherwise edited. Articles will be sent by PM to SirAnonymous, editor of the DART Bard. Applications will also be sent to the editor. If there are too many applicants, some will have to be rejected. We of the Bard apologize in advance to anyone who is turned down. The public will be informed when the positions are filled.
DARTvivor S3 is looking for more members to sign up. Find the sign-ups in the Forum Games section and add your /in to play. See you in Japan!
Ramshutu is looking for someone with computer-related experience, preferably a Russian hacker, to help him get back into his account after the Illuminati locked him out for unknown but doubtless nefarious reasons.
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/in. By the time this game starts, I should be available.
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I will temporarily return from my break to make this announcement.
We have reached the final two. Only REF and wylted remain. Which will win? Watch the final interrogation and find out!
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