Speedrace

Oh wow, that’s interesting

That makes sense, my only thing is that God’s directly talks to Jews throughout scripture, so how did the God they worship become different?

By which one is true

Me and Ralph were only arguing about the classification of religions and religious denominations though

Lol why are you officiating this?

But anyway, salvation is the whole point of religion, so choosing it as the point from which one determines what a religion is is completely fair

Unnecessary bump
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Which is why it is consistent

Islam is differnt because it has its own way of getting to heaven
Hinduism has a different salvation
So does Buddhism
Judaism has a different way of salvation
Christianity has a different one

Catholicism fits smack-dab into Christianity, which makes it a denomination

No, because you’re trying to choose what my logic is

That reductio ad absurdum only works if you choose an arbitrary point, but as I explained, the point of salvation isn’t arbitrary since it’s the whole point of religion

...ok

Reductio ad absurdum, I’ve aids that three times lolol come on

You can only say that if you presuppose that atheism is true, if the disciples really were following Jesus and he was divine then Christianity is most definitely a new religion because it was these random people that spread the word of Christ, a new message

The point was reductio ad absurdum...like I said...

Did you read the rest of the comment? Lol there’s was a lot more, it’s basically a gold mine dude go get rich

One would think that the way to salvation is, you know, the most important part to pick, and therefore isn’t arbitrary

But using reductio ad absurdum, I can turn that around on you

Christianity and atheism both share a belief that humans exist, because if they don’t, then you can’t believe nor not believe in God, so that means atheism is a denomination of Christianity

But that’s...wait for it...ABSURD

Lol I took too much joy out of that

But anyway, the way to salvation isn’t just an arbitrary fact because it’s literally the whole point of religion

And, besides that, even if we DID choose an Abrahamic God as the meeting point, you’ve still just randomly chosen Christianity to be a denomination

If that was the meeting point, both Judaism and Christianity’s would be under the umbrella of “Abrahamic God,” but Christianity wouldn’t be under Judaism’s umbrella, Judaism’s core belief is that Jesus isn’t divine, you can’t have a denomination that disagrees with the fundamental truth of its parent

So really, under your thing, they would be sister religions, not a parent and a denomination, which is pretty much what they are right now

You said I was full of...

No, I didn’t... Catholics is a Christian denomination because they both hold a base belief that Jesus is the way to salvation, Judaism isn’t because it doesn’t hold a base belief that Jesus is the way to salvation

It’s like pies and cakes, they both use eggs, flour, etc. (God), but one has a crust and one doesn’t (Jesus), Catholicism is just a specific kind of pie, but you’d never call cakes and pies the same thing

That’s about as consistent as it gets lol

How about this

If it was proven that Jesus never existed, Christianity AND Catholicism would disappear, but Judaism would remain unaffected

Do you see what I mean now? Also literally nothing hinges on Judaism and Christianity being the same and since you’re an atheist I don’t know why you care so much lol

Calling someone names isn’t a “dose of reality,” it’s you resorting to petty insults in an insignificant matter, that’s the kind of behavior that makes people commit suicide dude, not cool, you don’t know if you could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back

Also nice happy belated birthday *confetti*

Oops it deleted all the spaces I put to separate them XD failed diagram

This is my effort to draw a diagram because I'm a nice person :)

God

Judaism Christianity
No Jesus Yes Jesus
Catholicism
Works

See? Judaism and Christianity are on two different planes, I really don't understand why you're getting hostile lol you're 30 you should be the mature one xD

They believe in both Jesus and works, but believing in Jesus, if I'm right, still gets you into heaven, that just means that they're unnecessarily believing in works

First of all, it isn't that deep XD

Second, as I've explained multiple times, it isn't the same

If you wanted to say that Christianity and Judaism are both under an umbrella together then that would make sense, but otherwise, it's not the case

And now you're being salty because you don't understand what I'm saying

God isn't the path to salvation for Christians, Jesus is, "focusing" on the Jesus part is the whole difference

For Catholicism though they still believe in Jesus, so that makes them a denomination, if they believed in works ONLY, then they would be a different religion

But if you're gonna call me logically inconsistent because you can't follow along then just stop replying lol

You didn't even read my response yet lol

It's the same logic

No, because they both believe in Jesus, who is the path to salvation

Catholicism simply focuses on human works an unnecessary amount

They have to believe in the same path to get salvation to be the same religion, not the same God, that's my logic

I did answer it by saying yes?????????????????????????????????????????

Literally so many times dude

And I said they did...multiple times lol

No, because Jews believe God gives them salvation while Christians believe that Jesus does

Essentially, either Judaism or Christianity is right, but not both, both Christianity and Catholicism can be right at the same time, hence why Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity

No

Christianity requires you to believe in Jesus' divinity, Judaism is all about a direct relationship with God himself

"Don't you believe that Jesus is the Abrahamic God in the flesh?"

That was what I was responding to when I said "Yes, and Jews don't"

They believe in the same God, they just don't believe that Jesus is divine

Lol when did I say that the Jews don't have the same God as me?

No, I'm saying that Jesus' divinity is the defining belief of Christianity

By believing in Jesus you are believing in God because Jesus is God

Yes, and Jews don't

Ay yi yi, that's not the case

A belief in Jesus' divinity is what is required to become a Christian

Judaism doesn't include that, which means that they're not the same

I didn't say Catholics are Christians because they share A BASE TENANT (any) but because they share THE base tenant of a belief in Jesus' divinity

My point is that nitpicking any given underlying belief doesn't prove anything

Jesus' divinity trumps a belief in an Abrahamic God because Jesus' divinity deals with salvation

Lol how would I be contradicting my own logic?

And how would I be admitting they apply equally? I'm so confused

I could then say that atheism has the underlying belief in the existence of humans, I'm not sure we'd ever stop if we went down that road

Catholicism and Christianity still both have the underlying belief, which is in Jesus' divinity, Judaism doesn't have that, which makes it very different even though it may share some holy texts with Christianity

The people who were all descendants of Abraham

Hebrews is a better word, yes

Following Judaism doesn't necessarily make you a Jew because Judaism is also a race

And Christianity isn't a denomination of Judaism, they both have completely different underlying principles

I think it might be better to say that Catholicism has largely deviated from the Bible and the message of Christ, they're still Christians, but they believe a lot of stuff that simply isn't supported by scripture

And I agree that no denomination is a chosen one, the only "chosen" ones are the Jews

Lol I figured you’d say that, given his history with me I think it’s fair to say that’s a bit of a stretch, but you’re the boss

RM added his vote only 10 minutes after the debate ended, which is obviously not nearly enough time to listen to all of the music...

He did that to me as well, I’m not gonna vote

Can y’all save meh pls

Don’t worry, I gotchu

So look it up...

There’s no research needed...you post one song from the author you’re defending each round, then voters choose who they think had the most amount of good songs

That’s why I said you probably shouldn’t accept if you don’t listen to either artist because you won’t really know what’s considered their better songs

It’s EDM, you probably shouldn’t accept unless you’ve listened to them before

Yep, I went there, you gave me the idea XD

Who was laughing? Not me

It was only because I won a dud debate, full forfeit

Actually, I'm #14 soooooooooooooooooooo

You’re not losing any time though

Shhhhhhh, patience young padawan