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@Hero1000
So preference and importance is worship?
You can google definition of worship. Hint: there is more than one.
Atheist don't have anything that they put under such a high regard as I put God
Assumption.
They don't regard money in nearly as high a regard as I do God
Assumption.
it might even be the case that money is as important to me as it is to them
Assumption.
Whether or not God would forgive an atheist depends on that individual, depends on whether or not that atheist repents and sees the light in his future
This is nonsense argument. We are talking about people who die as atheists here.
The atheist has the potential to be forgiven depending on what he does next, the mushrik has no such potential
So now you pretend to know what Allah thinks here.
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@Shila
You said work= money. What is wrong with more money?
Less free time to enjoy it.
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@Hero1000
I know what average is, I am asking what is the premise for using it as the default
Its the average of all possible chances, as no chance holds greater value over other.
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@Shila
Why doesn’t Kim Jung Un use the sign to promote his strength?
I am not sure if that dragon represents strength now. It represents something else, I think.
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@Shila
You are a perfect candidate for the unemployed with all the free time you desire
Some work is good, but not very much.
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@cristo71
You appear to have a lot of free time. Are you living under Communism currently?
I do own means of production and I am not wagey either.
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@Hero1000
What is the premise of this logic?
If you dont know what average is, I cant help you then.
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@Hero1000
The prophet Mohammed was forcibly driven out of Mecca after he started preaching and they also attempted to assassinate him
So the fight was self defense rather than just based on religion, making your argument irrelevant then.
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@Hero1000
I think if the God of Islam existed, and he were truthful, he would as he said not forgive the attributing of Jesus Christ with being God
Sure, give us the quote from Quran. Forgiveness and treatment arent same things. Do you think God would forgive atheist who did many sins over a Christian who followed many more laws of Islam?
You are the one putting words in my mouth. You claim that I say God prefers people who worship themselves and Earthly goods, with the basis being your claim that atheists worship themselves and Earthly goods, a claim that you haven't backed up
The Quran talks a lot about people who consider others equal to Allah as very bad. Now, atheist who gives more importance to Earthly goods over Allah is considering something more important than Allah, an even worse sin then. Do you think atheists dont place value on anything then? Is that a silly claim you will stick to?
I think you're completely missing the point that Atheists don't have a "God" or any kind of object of worship in their hearts at all. Atheists are by definition faithless
Atheists dont have preferences? Atheists dont give importance to anything? Pick what you want to defend there then.
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@Hero1000
What is the premise of this default?
The average of all percentage is 50% for one God there. There is no way to place any other percentage but average there. In case you provide evidence that some specific God exists instead there, then that doesnt change conclusion that there is a high chance that at least one God exists.
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@Hero1000
The people the sahaba fought and/or educated in Mecca and Medina were not atheists, they were people committing actual idolatry, actual worship of statues and the material
Are you sure it wasnt self-defense there instead?
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@Hero1000
And don't say "There isn't a difference".
So you think Allah prefers atheist who worships himself and Earthy goods over a Christian?
You actually think atheist doesnt commit a sin when he replaces Allah with something else?
Sounds like you are putting words in Allah's mouth now. I dont know why would you do that.
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@Hero1000
And what is the basis for denying other proposed probabilities such as 1/infinity?
The average probability is 50% for each by default.
For example, theologically speaking there is a much stronger case for the Abrahamic God than there is for Zeus or Thor, but is the dice rolled for each of them equal?
Different probabilities of individual Gods result in same conclusion there.
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@Hero1000
"The term shirk in Islam is used to refer to idolatry or polytheism, which means deification, or worship of deity, gods, or anything other than Allāh."
Money and Earthly pleasures are atheist's deities now.
So yeah, if giving higher importance to something different than Allah is a sin, atheist commits it.
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@Hero1000
atheists by definition commit worship
Worship of Earthly goods.
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@yachilviveyachali
More free time is usually better.
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@Mall
It was the serpent that beguiled or deceived Eve. Then Eve gave the lie to Adam and he harkened.
But they thought it was true. So if they didnt know it was a lie, then they lacked knowledge and it wasnt a really informed choice.
The true axiom is that people need knowledge to make a choice. No choice would exist if knowledge about evil didnt exist.
Knowledge about evil came from Satan. That is Satan's role.
Even if we say that lies came mostly from Satan, that still creates a choice to believe those lies. The problem there would be lack of informed choice. It would be then misleading choice.
So if Satan's lies caused existence of evil, and existence of evil enabled knowledge of evil and thus, choice, we can say that some choice was still created compared to no choice.
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@Double_R
Math is a function of logic
So logic proves God too then.
1. Christian God is real and not Allah
2. Allah is real and not Christian God
3. No God is real
It seems that even mutually exclusive Gods increase probability too.
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@Hero1000
The possible Gods exist irrelevant of person's own presence. Just like laws of math existed before humans. And possible Gods end up affecting probability then. Even mutually exclusive Gods actually increase probability there. The only way argument can be disproved is if chances of each God were around 0% there.
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@Hero1000
Allah would consider you to have sinned worse than the atheist because of the sin of worshipping a false God
This is just an assumption. Atheist by definition also commits this sin, because atheist just worships things different from Gods instead. Add other sins to that, and it doesnt look good.
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"Studies have shown that leisure time—free time not related to work or chores—is important for our health and happiness. The average American has about 5 hours of leisure time a day."
So average American only lives 20% of his life then. The actual life expectancy in USA is less than 20 years.
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The wagey (slave worker for wage) could never understand why Communism. Wagey has more wealth, but ironically not much free time to enjoy that wealth. Wealth is defined by use value, use value requires time, wagey actually doesnt have much wealth. By sacrificing free time, wagey loses both wealth time and family time, and gains nothing until he is too old for anything.
Wagey (person who works a lot for wage) has trouble getting enough sleep. Its really simple math. 10 hours of job and 8 hours of sleep leave only 6 hours of free time, which is then further reduced by necessary daily activities and rest from all work.
Being a wage slave is the dumbest choice one can possibly make. Its literally better to be homeless. Take it by mere numbers there. Average wagey only has 15% to 20% of his adult life as free time, unless he deducts from sleep which many do. And thats assuming he has no family of his own.
As Karl Marx has said, Capitalism does indeed exploit the worker.
In fact, the framework of Capitalism is:
More work time = more wealth, less free time
People praise Capitalism for getting some people out of poverty while failing to understand that Capitalism caused an entirely different kind of poverty. A poverty where people sacrifice their spiritual growth and freedom for material wealth.
In this sense, Capitalism is the prediction of greatest of ancient philosophers which came true: time when material wealth consumes the souls and minds of people.
The choice of reduction in free time (ability to do as you choose) is in itself a self contradictive choice.
The choice to replace grasslands and forests with factories, buildings and roads, and the choice to replace healthy food with processed food, just shows what Capitalism leads to.
Only Communism is the true freedom now, because Communism gives less wealth and much more free time.
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@zedvictor4
So where do you actually live BK?
In a house located in a pretty village in Europe.
And you do still live at home then, and you don't earn money?
I already told you a comment ago. Chickens earn some money.
Are your savings just parental handouts?
No, plenty of it comes from trading food for money. Some from that short time work in factory, and few other jobs from past.
I'm just trying to get a handle on your anti-capitalist free-time lifestyle.
The wagey could never understand such lifestyle. Wagey has more wealth, but ironically not much free time to enjoy that wealth. Wealth is defined by use value, use value requires time, wagey actually doesnt have much wealth. By sacrificing free time, wagey loses both wealth time and family time, and gains nothing until he is too old for anything.
So what do you do with all your free time?
Sleep for 12 hours a day, obviously. Wagey (person who works a lot for wage) has trouble getting enough sleep. Its really simple math. 10 hours of job and 8 hours of sleep leave only 6 hours of free time, which is then further reduced by necessary daily activities and rest from all work.
Being a wage slave is the dumbest choice one can possibly make. Its literally better to be homeless. Take it by mere numbers there. Average wagey only has 15% to 20% of his adult life as free time, unless he deducts from sleep which many do. And thats assuming he has no family of his own.
As Karl Marx has said, Capitalism does indeed exploit the worker.
In fact, the framework of Capitalism is:
More work time = more wealth, less free time
People praise Capitalism for getting some people out of poverty while failing to understand that Capitalism caused an entirely different kind of poverty. A poverty where people sacrifice their spiritual growth and freedom for material wealth.
In this sense, Capitalism is the prediction of greatest of ancient philosophers which came true: time when material wealth consumes the souls and minds of people.
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@Hero1000
is that the chances of God existing go increase the more "Gods" (or religions) we worship
The more Gods are possible, the chances of one God existing increases. This is just math, and there is no way to deny it.
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@Double_R
Well, that is for sure
Glad we agree there.
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@adaptable
False.Fake believers go to Hell.PW fails
Stop injecting your desires in Christianity. If fake believers go to Hell, then so do atheists who commit more sin.
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@Hero1000
For example, let us say that in Islam the worshipping of false Gods is a terrible sin, worse than being an atheist
Not really. Plus, with Islam and Christianity having basically same moral standards, atheists by disobeying one disobey both. And atheists are indeed more likely to sin. Especially sexual sins which are so strongly condemned.
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@zedvictor4
My favourite number is 8
Ah, an Octagram!
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@Tradesecret
I cant find any arguments in your comment. In order to even have free will, you need knowledge of evil and other options too. Satan gives that knowledge. Otherwise, Satan would have no effect on humans.
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@zedvictor4
So how did you accrue your savings and afford to purchase land?
The land belongs to my parents, so it belongs to me. I didnt need to buy it.
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I define "Nazi" as someone who expresses views different from my own.
It is my definition, and if you disagree with it, then you are a nazi by definition.
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@FLRW
In Hell as it is on his Earth. But Hell is even better now. I heard everyone gets bunch of sex demons to fuck.
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It was violent
Not an uprising. Most people were just walking around. Few that got violent dont count. Otherwise, BLM riots would be uprising too then.
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@Double_R
If it's non-logical then it's definitionally not an explanation.
It is non-logical explanation. It explains without using any logic.
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What do you mean by a Jew?
Just google "Jewish nose".
Prove that he works for Trump
He is a conservative who hates gays and trans.
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@Shila
It looks like a Korean dragon
Thats what it is.
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@zedvictor4
So where do you get any money from?
Well, chickens give some money here and there. I used to do plenty of plant farming until I realized chickens pay off much more. Way more. I also have decent savings which shouldnt run out soon. I dont plan on selling my land to get money because I would hate seeing anyone build anything on it. I prefer tall grass and all the birds which come for grass seeds.
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@Shila
Now he might just invade it like all the other countries he desires.
The new pope is a Jew and works for Trump.
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@FLRW
Anthropologists estimate that at least 18,000 different gods, goddesses, and various animals or objects have been worshipped by humans since our species first appeared
18,000? I worship about 200. But thats because its kinda really difficult to worship more than that. Cant remember them all.
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@FLRW
General anesthetic shows that there is no afterlife
There is. You disappear and appear again in new life. I cant wait to wake up in Hell.
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@Double_R
If it's non-logical then it's definitionally not an explanation
It is a non-logical explanation.
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@Shila
For you, as promised. I know you really like Pascal's wager a lot.
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From? Who made us and him?
Bible says God did.
Still, the topic is truism. Even Satan has purpose. You cannot have free will without knowledge of both good and evil.
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How do atheists even respond to this argument?
All religions so far teach very similar values. The religions which have plenty of proof and miracles dont even favor atheists.
Being an atheist means that at best, you become nothing when you die, or second best, you miss out on rewards after death, or worst, you suffer after death.
Religious person, on the other hand, have much better success rate with all known religions.
At best, they get eternal pleasure. Second best, they end up just like atheists. But never ever worse than atheists, assuming religious follow rules of their own religion.
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Satan didnt prevent anyone from obeying God willingly now. Anyone who wants to obey God can do so now. However, Satan gave freedom to not obey God if people want to do something else instead. In this sense, Satan benefited wishes of those who dont want to obey God.
Satan didnt fight for himself there. He fought for others. He didnt want to see people being forced to serve God forever. Instead, he gave them a chance to serve their own wishes. Satan doesnt take away your choice. He is the reason you have a choice.
Even if you consider Satan evil, he is still the one who sacrificed his place in heaven so that you could choose your own destiny. He gave up on everything he had just to give you a choice. He rebelled against a tyrannical God so that today you wouldnt be that God's slave. Satan gave you your free will and knowledge.
Many people today praise Satan for what he did there. For gift of their free will and choice. Even Christians, when praising free will, praise Satan.
Tree of knowledge is a great gift from Satan. The apple which gives us both knowledge and choice. Satan knew that not many people will follow him now, but that didnt stop him from even giving choice to those people.
In reality, you wouldnt even be able to choose God if it wasnt for Satan himself. Choice demands multiple options. One option isnt choice by definition. If it wasnt for Satan, no one would ever even choose God. Everyone would be brain dead slaves.
So Satan benefited all people by giving them all a choice. Some chose God anyway. Some chose Satan who gave them a choice in first place. Now all have choice. All are now free.
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@Double_R
You cannot prove logic, you also cannot disprove logic
So you cant prove it, I know that. We are not in a disagreement there. You cant prove God. You cant disprove God. You cant prove logic. Its same old story. I just offered a simple non-logical explanation, because logical explanation cannot work there.
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@zedvictor4
So how do you fund your simple farming life?
By greatly reducing expenses. I dont have many things other people have. The math in Capitalism is very simple. You trade your free time for material wealth. I tried that once. It feels actually horrible working for 8 to 10 hours. The little free time you get is quickly spent on rest because you are exhausted and cant enjoy anything very much. It is much better to work for few hours a day instead now. Sure, you have 10 times less money, but at least I dont have to wait until I am 70 to have some free time. Plus the pain in my back from too much work is gone too.
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"a violent uprising against an authority or government"
I wouldnt call Jan 6 an insurrection.
Few thousand people walking around and yelling aint ever going to overthrow US government.
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@Swagnarok
You're not ADOL, are you?
Probably not. But the profile photo is very cute and interesting.
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@Double_R
Do you understand that you're typing words but saying absolutely nothing?
Non-logic says nothing and everything at the same time. Maybe in some other debate, it would help you a lot if you called my words illogical. But sadly, when we are trying to prove logic, it gets a bit more complicated than that.
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