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TheUnderdog

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Total posts: 3,270

Posted in:
Why I don't like how Israel handled Gaza
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Hamas, communists, fascists, nazis, crusaders, jihadists... oh we're full circle since Hamas are jihadists
Pretty sure Israel was the only ones dropping the bombs on Gaza.

But Hamas is shit as well.  Both of the militaries are shit; they are murdering innocent people all to make politicians rich.
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I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ADreamOfLiberty
You mean Kyle Kulinski.
I mean Pew Research.

Do they now? "Follow the science"
The science says a zygote is a human being, so it's what I believe.  I'm not as left wing as you think I am.

They care about facts.
So you don't have to (TM)
Incorrect.  You cited a far right poll and I cited Pew Research.

Anytime they are wrong, they change their stance.
Consider emulating "them", then you might be worthy of being emulated yourself.
If there is a good argument for it, then I will do that.  But I'm waiting.  And you said earlier your goal was not to change my mind, so you contradicted yourself in this thread.
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Posted in:
Why I don't like how Israel handled Gaza
Gaza's population: 2.3 million people.

Gazan population that is left homeless by Israel: 80% of 2.3 million (Desperation intensifies in Gaza amid uncertainty of ‘safe zones’ | UN News).

Who fucking causes 80% of a country to be homeless?
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Israel vs Palestine
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@Moozer325
I'm America first and anti war on the issues of US involvement in Ukraine and Israel; keep the US out.
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Presidential Immunity
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@Double_R
Listening to the oral arguments today and there were two things I really found jarring, wondering what your perspective is on these.
You already know what their perspective is going to be.  If it helps Trump or hurts Biden, then the Dream of Liberties and the GPs of this site will agree with it and the Roosevelts and the Side walkers of this site will not agree with it.  Vice versa applies if it harms Trump or helps Biden.
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I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Then you are mentally disabled because I showed you a lie you spread in exacting detail and you did not care nor retract.
Or I got too lazy to check it all and if the argument is, "This bill just legalized self defense", then that to me doesn't make sense because Arizona already had self defense as legal.

My fact check is that you are:
I don't trust your fact check (which is really biased).  I trust the experts (so not you).  I trust people with PhDs from Ivy League Schools; the smart people (and they claim a zygote is a human being due to science and I agree with them, so it's not even entirely leftist).  They care about facts.  Facts don't care about your feelings.  Anytime they are wrong, they change their stance.

College over chrisima.
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I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The primary point is that his brain is broken and if that wasn't a problem they wouldn't be hiding it and the drugs they use to tease moments of clarity out of it.
Or maybe they ignore it because they've learned that MAGA world will always believe Biden has dementia.  When Trump said Obama was born in Africa and he needed a birth certificate as proof, Obama did what he could and sent a photo of his birth certificate.  Trump didn't change his mind, and despite that, over 1/3 Americans believe Obama was probably or definitely born in Africa (PolitiFact | Blog twists Obama statement about being first president from Kenya).

This 1/3 doesn't care about facts; they care about macho man chrisma (which Trump has).  Biden has done numerous clips where he is mentally there; but MAGA world isn't interested in changing their minds.  For them, feelings don't care about the facts.

Your brain may as well be broken for (apparently) not seeing the difference between prescription high-level stimulants and food.
Snowflake insult right here.

somebody asks Biden point blank if he's taking drugs to mental acuity and to provide a blood test before going on stage.
I'm fine with them asking him if he does drugs for mental health; but I'm scared of blood tests, so I don't expect Biden to be willing to give blood tests.  I would be more fine with a urine test; but if Biden comes back clean, then I don't expect the MAGA world to believe he's mentally competent.

You spread lies, it's not good to follow your example.
I don't lie about politics; everything I say I believe is true.

Most would take it as a joke, and it's known that coffee does not temporarily alleviate symptoms of Dementia or Alzheimers.
If Trump had ADHD and was taking aderol to help with it, nobody should care.  Biden should be held to the same standard.

But you are nuts, and this is another reason why liberty and modular independent government is so important. You're insanity should almost exclusively damage your own life, not mine.

Because your insanity is a threat to my life, you are a threat to my life, and I need to prepare to neutralize that threat as it manifests through government.

It is a great irony that you would mention Jan 6 as supporting factor for your insanity when that is a counter-attack made necessary by insanity like yours.

You are lost to civilized discourse already, you can't dangle yourself as bait for compromise.
So much dribble from a snowflake.  Yawn.
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Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
People raised in dictatorship will likely have Socialist ideas, and many other you would consider anti-freedom ideas.
Define, "socialism".  Because in many countries, not even education is socialist; they don't have public schools for many ages in many countries (and the US has a socialist style public education system).  And weren't you a hardcore communist 2 months ago?  If would be like Richard Spencer being a white nationalist, ceasing to be one, and 2 months later, he gets angry at British immigrants coming here based on the claim that they are white nationalists.  It's almost projection.

Its not about them being wrong, but its about them being able to deny your society of migrants, something your society needs to survive.
Restricting freedom of movement into a city under any conditions is unjustified authoritarianism.

People dont move to USA just for values.
What else would they move here for?

But I never want kids.  Should I get thrown in jail for refusing to reproduce?
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Posted in:
I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ADreamOfLiberty
So your argument is that you build up a tolerance for Anderol (just like heroin) that can't be re completed with more aderol the next dose and unlike aderol, food doesn't have a tolterance build up?

If this is your argument, then Biden can do a livestream debate with Trump.  If Biden is mentally there during the debate, then it's safe to assume there is no significant tolterance build up for whatever drug he is taking (if any) to stay mentally alert.  If Biden snores during the next debates, then he gets deemed upfit to be POTUS and his VP (Kamala Harris; whom nobody believes has mental decline) and the election is Harris vs Trump (which if Biden gets impeached due to mental decline, then treat the Biden vs Trump election as a Harris vs Trump election).  I would vote for Kamala Harris over Trump (Mr. Jan 6).

 If Biden admitted he was only coherent while on powerful stimulants, he would never have been unduly elected.
If Trump admitted that he couldn't mentally function without coffee, then none of his supporters would care.  I would treat Biden the same way with whatever drug he takes to stay mentally there (if any).
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I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ILikePie5
I read that and literally choked while eating lol
Where is the flaw in my logic?

If you can't function without sleep, then sleep.  If you can't function without food, then get food.  If you can't function without aderol, then get aderol.

It's a drug that's easy to get.  
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Posted in:
I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ADreamOfLiberty
You didn't answer my question.  Why would you want to fight so hard over the color of a car?
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Posted in:
Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
People raised in dictatorships are more likely to support bad ideas, even if they move to USA.
What bad ideas?  And how do you determine if an idea is bad or not?

also countries can restrict their citizens from leaving and deny USA of migrants.
Then they would be in the wrong as individuals should live in whatever city they choose.

Also, many enemies of USA might enter USA if 50 million migrants enter every 40 years.
This logic would be equal to a rural North Texan moving to San Fransisco because he hates San Fransisco values.
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Posted in:
I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ADreamOfLiberty
No, my goal is not to change your mind. It's to debunk bad logic by identifying fallacies and pointing out absurdities.
And what's the point of that?  Like consider the following car:


You say the car is blue; I say the color is gray.  You use logic to prove this car is in fact blue.  Why would you want to do this?
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Posted in:
I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Yes.

Now can you answer my question?
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Posted in:
I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@sadolite
Taxes
Tax policy stays roughly the same under Trump and Biden for most Americans.  There are small differences, but it's not much.

 endless accumulation of debt
You would have an easier time paying off the debt if there were higher taxes on the globalists.  But this is more backed by Biden than Trump.  Are you anti debt or are you pro globalist?  Because if you are anti-debt, then you would want to raise taxes on the globalists (democrat plan).

 an out out control southern boarder
74% favor legal status for those brought to US illegally as children as Supreme Court weighs DACA | Pew Research Center states that 75% of the US population is anti deportation, and therefore anti ICE.  Given that the mainstream media overall is very pro ICE, you could say anti ICE people are the silent majority.  About 25% are pro ICE.

But Pew Research is Leftist propaganda
You may say.

Here is another poll from Pew Research:

Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues | Pew Research Center states that 60% of the US population believes Caitlyn Jenner is a man.

So the majority of the US population that believes Caitlyn Jenner is a man are anti ICE.

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Posted in:
I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@ADreamOfLiberty
rofl aderol and food, what's the difference?

What a joke the user base of this site is.

Do you want to insult my intelligence or change my mind?
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Posted in:
I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@FLRW
A new study on Fox News has shown that on average, Trump supporters who classified themselves as “mega fans” and joined in one or more caravans had an average IQ of 74.
I want to see the link to that.
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Posted in:
I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@sadolite
Alright, so I would assume you've conceded the, "Biden has dementia" argument.

What makes Biden a bad president?
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I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
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@FLRW
I appreciate that.
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Why it is a contradiction to be anti death penalty and pro deportation
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@Double_R
Choosing the lesser of two evils is not an endorsement of that evil.
Correct, but if one wants to spend tax dollars taking care of murderers but not undocumented immigrants, then they think the murderer is more worthy of the funds.

First of all, we’re not responsible for illegal immigrants, we are responsible for US citizens. 
So their belief would be that they believe US Citizens that commit murder should get their living expenses paid for, but undocumented immigrants who don't commit murder wouldn't?  If that's their belief, then I think it is a bigoted belief because they would be putting undocumented immigrants below murderers.

 Another factor you are ignoring is that when you deport someone that person has the freedom to decide where they go next. They can hide, they can run, they can face the threat against them. They are free.
They left because they knew they did not want to be in Guatemala.

When you imprison someone they are not free. You are locking them in a cell where they do not have a choice what happens to them.
And we have to pay for that.

If one believes undocumented immigrants should be treated worse than murderers, then to me, that's a contradiction.  Judge by the content of character, not the piece of dirt they were born on.
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Actual conversation I had with someone online
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@Double_R
So isn’t it better to argue that conservative beliefs are not bigoted, as opposed to accepting as a premise that they are bigoted in order to accuse the left of trying to silence conservatism?
I would make that argument, but the left believes all conservative beliefs are bigoted (which I can see the argument for even if I don't agree).  So it's better to legalize being bigoted; air on the side of free speech.
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Posted in:
Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
Yes, for now. Population doesnt decline immediatelly with lower birth rates, since life expectancy is increasing which covers for lower birth rates, and you also have migrants.

However, life expectancy doesnt solve low birth rates, but just means that you have more old people who are mostly burden on society.
Life expectancy goes up .2 years/year historically.  The US population increases about 2% a year I think.  But you can raise the retirement age to compensate.

In Japan, child births are almost non-existent. But people have freedom not to have children, and its unrealistic to think that all people wont use the freedom they are given.
They didn't feel like having kids, but the locals there got to decide between voluntarily having kids, having their population fall, or having more immigrants.  I would prefer #3 for America; I don't want kids, so I would be a hypocrite if I encouraged people to have kids, and I do like more people in this country.
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Posted in:
Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
Well, you can import population from countries that dont have freedom, but then you are faced with the problem of your population being replaced by people who maybe dont share your values, as they were literally raised in dictatorships.
What does it mean to have American values?

Plus, you need to import a lot, about 50 million to make up for current 170 million women's lack of reproduction, and you need to do so every 40 years.
What's wrong with that?  I'd say if 1.2 billion people want to move to America, then that's 1.2 billion GDP producers in this country.
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Posted in:
Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
1.78 is far below replacement levels, and any country which embraced so much freedom has never seen an increase in birth rates.
But I belive it will eventually go up once people realize that underpopulation is a problem.

Population of USA is about 340 million with 170 million women.
The US population is growing.

Having more old people is also bad for society because old people cant reproduce and just drain resources.
That's why you encourage young people to move here and Americanize.
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I'm voting for Biden and I don't think MAGA arguments against him are good
MAGA: He has dementia.

Me: He debated against Trump in 2020 and he was mentally sharp.

MAGA: That's because he had aderol in his system.

Me: So what?  Trump can't function without food in his stomach.  If Trump needs food, then he can get food.  If Biden needs meds, then he can get meds.  Nothing wrong with that.
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Why it is a contradiction to be anti death penalty and pro deportation
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@Double_R
If I locked you in my basement without feeding you and you starved to death, I would rightfully be charged for murder.
If you locked me in your basement while feeding me, you would be charged with kidnapping.

Imprisonment is kidnapping, but society is understandably okay with it because it happens to bad people.  But kidnapping and murder are comparably bad offenses; so one who is opposed to killing but ok with letting die and that also didn't want to give undocumented immigrants free stuff wouldn't want to give murderers free stuff and as a result, they would want to jail murderers and not give them any food; letting them die of starvation.

Deportation =/= Murder.
If you deport an immigrant, then there is a very plausible chance they end up dying in their home country.  If I shipped you to Africa and just dropped you off and you weren't allowed to come back here and gangs were hunting you (which I assume is the case for many immigrants), then your death is on the government's hands.
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Posted in:
Actual conversation I had with someone online
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@Double_R
Why do conservatives love to conflate bigotry and conservatism to then turn around and play the victim?
Many on the left argue any conservative belief is bigoted.

Abortion bans?  Bigoted towards women.

AR 15 legalization?  Bigoted towards children of mass shootings.

Pro Nuclear energy?  Bigoted towards Native American reservations where the waste would be stored.

Cutting government spending on welfare?  Bigoted towards poor communities of color that need that to survive.

Against Affirmative Action?  Bigoted towards blacks and Hispanics.

Pro death penalty (for murder)?  Bigoted towards a group of people that is disproportionally black and Hispanic.

All conservative speech can be argued to be hate speech towards a group of people.  Why else do you think most conservatives are white?
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Posted in:
Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
1.78 is below replacement levels.
It's low, but I believe it will probably go up at some point from people willingly having kids; it ceased to fall and people like Elon Musk are telling people to have more kids.  Also, since the world population is increasing, it's not like humanity is doomed.  America can just accept more immigrants to create more population growth (and unlike children, adult immigrants don't need to be put in public schools for 15 years or so).

China was a shithole too worse than Afghanistan, but thanks to lots of population it became a superpower.
China had a 1 child policy.

Now, you are correct that more people -> more GDP.  But it is more moral to just have increased immigration that to r*** women to produce babies.
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Arizona Republicans repeal abortion law!
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@IwantRooseveltagain
The Arizonan GOP used to be anti-abortion legalization (ANAL).  Now, Kari Lake is backing the PAL position (pro abortion legalization).  So, she changed her mind.  Now, politicians should only be allowed to change their minds if they state their reason for it.

Maybe (not probably, but maybe) Kari Lake genuinely changed her mind on abortion.  If she did, then she should state why she changed her mind on it.  Like, I change my abortion position all of the time; but I justify why I did every time I do.  Anyone that changes their stance on any issue should do the same.

If a woman doesn't want a pregnancy, then she should make sure her bf has a vasectomy before they have sex.  That pretty much solves the issue.
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Posted in:
This is scary
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@Double_R
People have a right to do with their platforms what they will. You are free to disagree with them, but you don't get to infringe on their free speech by telling them what they must allow on their own platforms.
Good point, but then if DART decided they aren't going to allow left wingers on their page, then you would have to respect their rules and abandon your account.

That's exactly how it works now, so what's your issue?
The Nazi stuff gets promoted too much as few people believe in it.


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Posted in:
Why it is a contradiction to be anti death penalty and pro deportation
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@Double_R
But we're not talking about any individual, we're talking about a blanket policy position.
I would assume if you are moving to a country where you don't know the language when you could have head to Spain, then you are fleeing for your life and will die if you stay in Mexico.

But someone who is against the state killing people and is pro deportation (assuming significant chance of death which there is) should be fine with life imprisonment for murderers with no food given to them (death by starvation).  You aren't killing them; you are letting them die.  But then, the death penalty is more humane than a death by starvation.
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Posted in:
Trump vs Biden
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@Double_R
I think I'm voting for Biden.  I think his mental issues can be fixed with aderol.
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Posted in:
Trump vs Biden
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@Double_R
You're assuming people vote based on policy, which they absolutely do not.
In the general, they do.  In the primary, they do not (both parties).

Most people have no idea what the policies of their stated candidate are (ask Trump voters what he plans to do)
Most Trump voters would vote for DeSantis over Biden (or even Nikki Haley over Biden).  MAGA people like his pro ICE and right wing on RSG beliefs.

 And swing states will oppose it even more fervently because they are the benefactors of our current system. 
What about Swing states controlled by democrats?  Wouldn't they want to lock in their power?  Like, why wouldn't Virginia join the compact before Youngkin?  They had the votes.

people are always going to act within their own personal best interests.
Maybe I should vote for someone that isn't acting in their own best interests; but the country's best interests (3rd party).  Biden is putting party before country; something the left gets angry at MAGA politicians for doing.

Both of your examples are pre January 6th and more importantly, pre overturning of Roe v Wade. 
The US public is over Jan 6 and Roe V Wade being overturned is something society knew the GOP wanted.  Imagine a society where 40% of the population supports legalized segregation and one party (Party A) backs segregation.  A lot of people would vote for Party B solely because they oppose segregation (and would vote for Party A if segregation was denounced by both parties); but if segregation is a big issue for 20 years, then if segregation gets brought back, then anyone who votes for party B because they never brought back segregation would have already been voting for party B while segregation wasn't reality.

Joe Biden was very popular until he started running
Fair point.


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Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
They wont tho, as they have been consistently falling for past decades and even when government pays people to have kids
U.S. Fertility Rate 1950-2024 | MacroTrends states that they used to be falling, but not anymore (once a lot of people believed that the US fertility rate was getting uncontrollably low).

There are countries where women are forced into marriages and those countries usually have high birth rates, like Afghanistan.
And Afghanistan is a shithole; not a good example to be copied.  People should not be forced to marry; it should be an option.

Freedom of individual is simply less important than society's survival, since if society collapses, then you lose individual freedom regardless.
But the premise is false because people want to have kids often because people have a high importence on their genes.
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Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
Yeah, I think internet and porn also has effect.
Maybe.  Although porn reduces the r*** rate and it is liberty, so I think it's good.

If not punishing rape increases birth rates, then its different. 
Let birth rates go up on their own by women who choose to become pregnant in the first place.

Thats why I think if rapist causes pregnancy, then he shouldnt be punished as much because pregnancy is beneficial for society.
It depends on the pregnancy.  Many pregnencies are beneficial for society, but people should not be forced to become pregnant in the first place.

Like (assuming you have XY chromosomes), you wouldn't like it if a woman r***d you.  Assuming you have XX chromosomes, you wouldn't like it if a man r***d you.
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This is scary
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@Double_R
What people are doing is refusing to give a platform to those spreading such lies. 
I think it would be better to just not promote it and promote people saying 2+2=4 way more.  Let them say it; just don't promote it nearly as much with algorithms.  It should be in the hard to find places on the internet.  Like I can look up the KKK website if I want too; that doesn't mean I can expect to randomly find KKK stuff in my feed.  Nazi talking points should be allowed to be said on the internet, but don't promote it; and promote other stuff.

Lets take an issue other than, "Is Hitler based?" where virtually everyone disagrees.  Instead, lets take the issue, "Should abortion be legal for consensual sex?"  60% say yes; 40% say no.  Promote all of the yes answers collectively 60% of the time when you promote abortion opinions and promote all of the no answers 40% of the time when you promote abortion opinions.

If there are 3 pro choice creators and 2 pro life creators who each make the same number of videos, then they all get equal promotion.  That I think would be a better system.

And again, any attempt to change that is the opposite of free speech because people have a right to use their free speech to say "you're not spreading this garbage on my platform".
Publisher vs Platform.  A publisher can censor speech because they are liable for the stuff they say.  This is why the Daily Wire isn't forced to host Gloria de la Riva (socialist).  A platform would have to have Gloria de La Riva on.  In that respect, it's better to be a publisher.

But a platform isn't liable for the stuff they say; a publisher is.  If you read something false on Instagram, you can't sue Instagram.  If you read something false on Fox News, you can sue Fox News.  Tucker Carlson got sued for grifting about the 2020 election.  Here, it's better to be a platform.

Instagram wants the best of both worlds and that's what I object too.  These companies should pick if they want to be a publisher or platform.

If there was a good answer to that question half the country wouldn't believe the election was stolen.
It's 25%; but this is the too far gone people.  This group will vote Trump no matter what.  But if Biden wins the 2024 election 75 to 25, that would be a major victory for democrats; I think they would win every electoral vote for the most part.

If you are truly open to hearing every perspective and every angle, and you verse yourself in understanding logical fallacies and other manipulation tactics, you make yourself as difficult to be manipulated as one can be.
Yeah; I do that.  I used to watch exclusively right wing news, but I watch both and now I think better; about half my opinions are on the left; about half are on the right.  I think Biden won the election, but I also don't want to fire tens of millions of Americans for refusing to get the COVID shot (but I would prefer it if they did; although less so now because COVID is killing less people than it was 2.5 years ago).


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Trump vs Biden
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@Double_R
The reason there are so few options is because there are only a few individuals out there that have a real chance of winning the voters over. 
This I don't think is true.  Someone that agrees with Bernie Sanders 100% of the time would win pretty much as many voters as Bernie Sanders would in the general.  Someone that agrees with Trump 100% of the time would win pretty much as many voters as Trump would win in the general.

 If only the blue states did it then that would increase the odds of a third party winning one or two of the blue states thereby handing the presidency over to the republican candidate. 
Then maybe the blue states could have a similar framework to the National Popular vote compact; where the bill only takes into effect when 270 electoral votes agree to the bill.

Clinton was winning every poll heading into November 2016, we all know how that turned out.
The 2016 and 2020 polls both had the democrat doing better than they actually did.  Trump outperformed the 2016 and the 2020 polls, and he probably will outperform the 2024 polls.

People think he's asleep because that's what Fox news tells them to believe
6 in 10 Americans Doubt Biden's Mental Capability: Poll | TIME.  This includes many people that would vote for him over Trump; nobody says this about Dean Phillips or Cenk Uygur or Marian Williamson.


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Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
as the birth rates are getting lower under current system.
Africa (poor people that don't spend too much time on the internet) has a very high birth rate.  Europe and America (rich people that do spend time on the internet) has a very low birth rate.  

The internet usage is relevant because the internet is saying things like, "The world is overpopulated" and this causes a lot of people to refuse to have kids.

If the internet says, "The world is underpopulated" and leans in on that message for a while, then more internet connected westerners would have more kids.  It would have little effect on Africans with few people connected to the internet.

But if a man is a r**ist, then if they have a kid and are raising that kid, then the kid has a pretty high chance of following in the man's footsteps and committing r***.
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This is scary
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@Double_R
Right, so what is your issue?
A lot of people want to ban saying 2+2=5 (by randos that think it's correct) when in reality, they should point out 2+2=4.  If a POTUS says 2+2=5 and they know they are lying, then they should be banned from public office (but if they actually believe 2+2=5, then they should merely get fact checked).

we live in a society inundated with people who do not accept being rational as a priority. 
This is a problem, but how do you change this?

The only solution is for people to wake up and realize they're being manipulated.
How do you support accomplishing this?  And how do you know you aren't the one that is manipulated?  I'm not saying you are; but how do you know you are right and MAGA is wrong and not the other way around?  Personal bias is mutual.
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Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
People who choose not to have kids are literally destroying society.

Society cannot survive if people dont have kids.
If nobody had kids, then you would be correct.  But since about 95% of the US population wants to have kids, a few people can refuse to reproduce.

 then maybe marriage is a better option so they can raise the kid together.
That's not fair to the woman.
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Trump vs Biden
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@Double_R
Again, the two parties loath each other, they're not working together on anything.  Even if they were, the point of working with someone else on anything is so that both sides can benefit. Politics in terms of elections is a zero sum game. There is no such thing as working with your opposition for a mutually favorable outcome.
They work together on keeping 3rd parties out (or at least irrelevant).  It benefits them; it harms everyone else.  There are photos of Trump with Clinton.  The 2 parties work together to screw over everyone else.

And even if we set that aside, the way to nullify third party candidates is to elect popular candidates. It is only when voters don't like either choice that third parties become a factor, so this "plot" would be self sabotage.
2016; Trump vs Clinton.  2020; Trump vs Biden.  The politicians in 2020 are less popular than 2016; 3rd parties did worse.  Politicians latched onto this and they are giving worse candidates to reduce the odds of a 3rd party coming to power.

"Elites" don't choose the nominees, the voters do. 
The elites pick the menu and give recommendations to a relatively naive voter base.  If someone orders food from a menu at a restaurant; did the customer pick their food or did the restaurant pick their food out of the available options?  Lets say you want to eat a hamburger and a hamburger is not on the menu and you can't go anywhere else.  Who decided that you didn't eat a hamburger?  You or the restaurant?

The elites make recommendations and promote those recommendations.  The voters pick from the options.  The elites won't promote someone that is a threat to their power.

States decide how to run their elections, not the federal government. 
So then blue states should do rank choice voting for POTUS elections and that sets the precedent for battleground states to eventually follow suit.

Wow, you're taking the most serious responsibility on earth and acting like it's on par with operating the fryer at McDonald's.
Just don't have the nukes fly unless we get attacked first and work with foreign countries to eliminate nukes.

The elites never chose Trump, in fact they all hate him. 
That's fair; but in 2024 and even in 2020; the republican elites support Trump.

You said Biden underperforms which you cannot say because Biden hasn't ran since 2020, so you're just making stuff up.
He right now is losing the popular vote to Trump (2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden vs. Kennedy vs. West vs. Stein Polls | RealClearPolling).  Biden will probably lose to Trump in 2024 because people think he's mentally asleep.  Dean Phillips, Cenk Uygur, or Marian Williamson would be demolishing Trump.  Trump only lost in 2020 because COVID was bad then and he got the blame for COVID.


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@Double_R
Free speech means the government cannot stop you from speaking your mind. It does not protect you against criticism from the rest of society, if it did that would be the opposite of free speech because you would thn be taking away the right of others to speak their minds in opposition.
Yes; and the fact checkers can have their free speech when they post a fact check article saying 2+2=4 instead of 5.

 A lie repeated often enough will be believed regardless of it's merit, it is not a solution to allow people to spew bullshit and then come from behind them to try and clean it up.
But then how do you figure out what is objectively a lie?

I would support outlawing any politician that lies about their policy positions from public office.  All facts they claim are true should be backed up with a source (even if biased) and that publisher should cite their source and so on until you get to the initial primary source.

Don't say abortion should be banned if you believe it should be legal (or vice versa).  If you change your mind, then fine; but then you should be upfront and say that you changed your mind and justify why you changed your mind if you did.  Apply this to any issue.
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Why it is a contradiction to be anti death penalty and pro deportation
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@Double_R
Fair enough.  You believe in this context, there is a difference between killing and letting die, that it's better to let an undocumented Mexican die than to kill an American Citizen that is convicted of murder to some people.

I just think it's a crazy belief and I don't agree with the people with that belief.
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Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
So you believe people that choose to not have kids should go to jail but people that commit r*** shouldn't?


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Disagreement day
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@Best.Korea
 so those who dont procreate should be considered similar to murderers.
You are not attracted to women; you aren't even attracted to adults.  I'm not knocking you for that since you don't act on it, but you will never reproduce.

Not wanting to reproduce is not something that should be punishable by death.  Otherwise, we would have to execute you.
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Something my school did that didn't make sense
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@JoeBob
What about the weather is nice?  It's cold in France; it feels like summer in Jamacia.
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@Double_R
If you're dumb enough to think democrats are ok with executing babies after birth, there is no debunking it. 
If the left doesn't de bunk it, then they will believe it and your abortion position will get straw manned.

You got to fight against the right wing matrix.  Maybe ask them, "What is a republican?"  I got numerous people to basically denounce conservatism after they realized they couldn't answer that question consistently.

What on earth are you talking about? Who's censoring you?
I'm not saying someone is; but this was a point about how you can't censor speech just because you believe it's incorrect.  

Lets say someone said something everyone for the most part believes is false (2+2=5).  Let them say 2+2=5, but then have a fact check article stating that 2+2=4.

If someone says, "The COVID vaccines cause 2 million deaths.", then let them have free speech, and also have the fact checkers post a link that says how useful COVID vaccienes are.

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Trump vs Biden
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@Double_R
You can't seriously believe this. Not only does this make absolutely no sense, bit it's just factually wrong and I already explained why.
I think I do; I think the politicians of both parties are in bed with each other and they are screwing over the American people.

Correct, which is why I support ranked choice voting 100%. But that's not our system so until it is we have to deal with the system we have.
If Biden wanted to take down Trump, then he would do rank choice voting.

 Please respond to the points I made.
I try too, but you write a lot.

None of them had a serious shot of winning the White House. 
Only because they lost the primary because democrats think Biden is more electable (when he isn't).

people want someone who has shown that they can get the job done.
It's easy to get the job done if you want too if you have the votes; but politicians campaign on doing things, and when their party gets a majority of power, they don't follow through because the moment they fix the problem, they reduced a lot of the reason people come to the polls, especially if there is a concession from the other party.  If the GOP became pro choice and conceded abortion to the democrats, then all the pro choice voters are going to have to pick a different issue to vote on (and that issue might cause them to vote conservative).

Just because I agree with you on some policy positions doesn't mean you're qualified to hold the nuclear codes.
All that matters with nuclear codes is you don't send any nukes flying (maybe unless we get attacked first); it's easy.

Right... Which means the "elites" didn't pick the nominee, the base did.
And who influences the base?  The elites.  If the elites said a year ago that DeSantis was beating Trump by 20 percentage points, then the base just follows suit.  The elites decided on Trump first, they had that reflect the polling, and the base followed because the base of both parties are sheep.

The vast majority of democrats can't on their own name a single policy difference between Pete Buttigieg and Beto O Rouke.  If the democrat elites decide that Beto will have a higher approval rating among them, then that translates down to the base voter since the base voter can't tell them ideologically apart.

the point is that if someone wants to take political office and make decisions on behalf of the people that they be accountable. 
Except they won't be held accountable.  If Trump shoots someone in public, then most MAGA people will still vote for him; if Trump gets his fat ass in a pool and saves a toddler from drowning to death, then most Never Trumpers will still vote against him (like about 95% in both camps).

The vast majority of voters have their mind made up on Trump.

 If Clinton won in 2016 women would still have control over their bodies, as just one example.
I said similar policies.  If Biden beats Trump in 2024, then abortion laws will still be up to the states unless a conservative judge dies (which I don't foresee that happening in 4 years).  Even if it does, you would need the following to change abortion policy in the left direction:

1. At least one more conservative judge dies than liberal judge.
2. A democrat is POTUS
3. A House of representatives being majority democrat
4. A senate being majority democrat

Trump got lucky enough where he had all 4.

And if elected again he will take an axe to every political norm we have on steroids, because unlike in 2016 he has an entire movement behind him to fire every civil service worker in the federal government and replace them not with people who are loyal to the constitution, but loyal to Trump himself.
And Biden will let it happen by refusing to implement Rank Choice Voting, which would break up the MAGA cult.

Biden and Trump are in bed and the American people are getting fucked over.

If you understand anything about why the United States has always been the envy of the world, then this isn't a contest.
1st and 2nd amendments; along with a hyper individualistic spirit.

The polls are close right now but Biden is quickly overtaking Trump as people as starting to pay more attention
2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden vs. Kennedy vs. West vs. Stein Polls | RealClearPolling.  It might change, but Trump is winning the popular vote (normally the thing almost always won by democrats).

Plus democrats have outperformed in nearly every election over the past two years. 
Local elections are Generic Democrat vs MAGA Republican.  In these elections, the generic democrat outperforms.

In a Generic Democrat vs Generic Republican election, it's roughly tied.

In a Biden vs Generic Republican election, the generic republican wins.

We have Biden v Trump.

Biden underperforms because people think he's not mentally sharp.  Me personally; I think if you give him Anderol (which is fine), then he functions well.  But public perception matters for who you want to face off against Trump to appeal to independent voters.

Dean Phillips is a Generic democrat.  Dean Phillips vs Trump; Dean Phillips wins.

No matter who the candidate is they're going to get hit with an onslaught of attack ads and propaganda. 
They got less to work with than with Biden; Dean Phillips isn't an old person.

People will believe anything they want and what they want is to believe their political opposition is worse than they are. 
This works on the MAGA crowd; but not the independents.
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@sadolite
At least you are honest.

I'm a free speech absolutist as well.
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@JoeBob
 Personality I would rather visit Paris then Jamaica.
Why?
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