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@Lunatic
My plan was to vote you and call you out for scum slipping to see how you handled the pressure of if you would acnkowledge the scum slip. I opted to play elden ring all night instead, so it never ended up happening.
That would probably have made the game easier to play. I know I don't respond to a ton of pressure well as scum. I tend to think "how dare this piece of shit wrongly suspect me" and as town I tend to literally just not give a shit unless it takes too long to lynch me and then I get frustrated because I think somebody should have seen the light by now
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@Savant
All it would take to debunk this theory is for someone else to say they liked several of Austin's posts. If JoeBob or Casey or someone has been liking them, then that solves the mystery. Otherwise, Austin has been liking his own posts in an effort to sway opinions, which comes across to me as strongly suspicious.
It's not suspicious, but I believe you and this makes him a douchebag.
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@Lunatic
r/ihavesex
I am trying to look cool in front of virgins and being called out like this doesn't help.
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@JoeBob
Lunatic doesn’t usually vanish, what’s going on with him?
Maybe he has a job or something
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I get a feeling another helicopter crash is coming
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I know that I don't care too much about the claim. Literally no Miller claimed and if the scum team has no godfather in the PM it's safe. If people buy it, it also gets you a lot of town cred so it's a good play
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I didn't say Austin was 90% scum. I said I could be reading things correctly and it is 90% he is scum but it is still possible in those situations that somebody 90% likely to be scum is in fact a member of town.
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@AustinL0926
I think 2 of these posts came before he claimed cop.
I mechanically townread Savant but I find his logic worryingly scummy. You even said so yourself. Again, not sure what's the "gotcha" here.
This one came before the cop claim
"was sussing Savant earlier for this but idk rly. It seems a bit contrived but I also think town is more likely to just put their thoughts out there whether good or bad."
I don't know though. I want to look elsewhere at the moment. You found scum dp1 last time. If you are town then just do it again.
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@Savant
This is probably free on Oddysey or something
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@Savant
The claim after one vote. Not a logical error maybe just inexperience. The statement that either me or Austin must be scum.
I am forgetting a bunch. I will try to point them out later.
It's just when a smart person is using poor logic it makes you wonder why. Smart people can be more prone to some cognitive biases than dumb people but other things stick out and you wonder whether it is a blind spot or if they are hiding something.
Just to show you what I mean with smart people being more prone to some cognitive distortions, let me explain one.
It is easy as a smart person to believe some types of really stupid shit. The reason being is that no matter who you know in your personal life that come to you with a contrary opinion, you can easily defeat their arguments. The makers of loose change for example, likely had IQs of 145 or above. Nobody was there that could prove them wrong because only 1 in a 1000 people can compete with that IQ level. Now lower IQ people can prove them wrong they just need to be experts on the subject matter, and they are likely to have one area of expertise while the loose change creator dabbles in multiple areas of expertise.
Here is how you fix that cognitive bias. You just take the devils advocate position and argue it as fiercely as you can. Why? Because nobody can argue it better than you and you are the only person who has the intellectual ability to disprove you and you can avoid distortions by disproving yourself often.
Another bias, and one I suffer from a lot is thinking I can come up with every possible argument for an action. For example, if somebody takes an action I can often attribute it to malice, when they had good reasons, because I am arrogant and think I have literally considered every possibility for their action and only malevolent things popped in my mind.
Dumb people just don't typically fall for that shit because they intuitively know they are dumb and because people around them can provide them arguments that defeat theirs.
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He also beat skepticalone. I am not saying any of those people are great but they are better than nearly everyone active here and pretty competent.
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@Savant
I just want to understand why it seems like the person playing this game is not the person who destroyed bones and Benjamin in recent debates. Maybe it's just not something I can understand but the riddle is killing me now.
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Glancing ag his debates doesn't help either. He crushed bones on a topic that bones is very comfortable with and you can't do that with bad logic
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@whiteflame
I know you are very careful not to insult people but can somebody else please give me their thoughts on Savant's poor logic. Some of the logic is a little bad and we are all guilty of that, but some is so horrible as to be laughable and this is from a guy who has deep posts on philosophy and some great insights on things like how to make voting more fair here.
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@Savant
Yeah and he balances it with a godfather. No godfather in the scum pm and boom you have a safe claim. I do behavior analysis. That's it. Claims are useless to me. We also have zero Miller claims and so if scum is sitting there watching zero miller's claim and not having a godfather in the PM, they have an easy fake claim of cop.
It gave you some breathing room from the earlier pressure. Not a free pass
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@Savant
If there is no godfather in the scum PM than 99% of the time, cop is a safe claim. It doesn't impress me much
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I know I don't want to vote Austin until I figure out WTF is going on with savant. Because I also do not think savant and Austin could be scum together
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@Savant
Right now you, Wylted, and I all agree that either you or he is scum
I don't agree with that LOL. If I am innocent it wouldn't make him scum and visa versa.
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A change in behavior between games is no big deal, I was just hoping to see the same scum tells in the game linked so I could see if that's just how he is and the tells I pointed out did not materialize
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The suspicion of moozer is reasonable but moozer seems absent minded to me. I don't think he should get a free pass for being absent minded but I do think it's a bit of a town tell that he thought savant was doctor. He is either town or the scum chat is pretty inactive
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@whiteflame
I don't Want him claiming now. I don't have my vote on him yet either. I also looked at. His behavior last game and it just feels different as well.
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@Moozer325
if you are still online I suggest full claiming since your name is coming up a lot and you will be MIA for 24 hours
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I find it funny that Austin accuses Savant of OMGUS and then immediately goes from a town read of me, to a scum read on me after I make a case against him.
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@AustinL0926
most of the things he points out are colored either by accidental or deliberate confirmation bias
Potentially. I haven't voted yet though because I want to give people a chance to point out where I went wrong if I did go wrong. It's also possible my logic is spot on and it is 90% likely you are scum and we just get unlucky and you are on the wrong side of that 90%
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Maybe I only think he's smart because he is well read and agrees with me on a lot of stuff. Maybe he is smart but very young, maybe he is smart academically but socially dumb. Something is missing though
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Yeah I talked to him in PM before and went through his threads. He seems very intelligent. Like 130 IQ or over range. I know it doesn't mean you have a good grasp of logic and can even make you more prone to some cognitive distortions but a lot of this reasoning seems beneath him.
Savant, how old are you?
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@Lunatic
I don't have time to go through these people's games. What is up with Savant? His logic seems poor and though I don't remember much about him from before I thought he was a semi active member and somehow got the impression he had really good logic and reasoning. I don't think I have crossed his path much, so not sure where I got that opinion from
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@Savant
However posts like this make me concerned about you;
ou're making a very obvious false analogy, and you should know better. The fact that you aren't accusing Wylted despite soundly disagreeing with his logic is also kind of suspicious.
A lot of people use bad logic in general, it doesn't make them scummy and we are all guilty of poor reasoning from time to time
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I have mixed feelings on the buddying so did not list it but I think it indicates that if austin is scum than lunatic is town.
So Austin is definitely scum. Let's review the evidence.
scum tell 1
Tow behaves differently when on their head is on the chopping block than scum. One scum tactic when their head is on the line is not to defend their evidence but gaslight their accuser by questioning their logic. A more natural response to stupid logic is not really that aggressive or defensive. Here are gaslighting posts below;
post 227 " > I also voted you because WyIted also suspects you for other reasons, which in my view makes the case against you stronger.
We should triple the US government's spending. Not really gonna specify my reasons, but in my view it makes the legislator's cases stronger"
Now this is poor logic by Savant, but the logic is strawmanned, not necessarily an issue, but the issue is gas lighting them and attacking their logic, instead of proclaiming your innocence or scum hunting
post 222 "Savant has literal zero basis for scumreading me and his recent posts prove it"
Who gives a shit. we all know that this is a bad way to defend yourself, but the issue is questioning the logic behind it. Most of us would say it is bad logic and move on or just say something like "fuck off I am innocent", and not elaborate. He isn't defending himself he is attacking.
post 206 questioning logic again not sum hunting or defending himself.
"Right, so the wagon on me is:
-Savant (who's mad that I pointed out objectively scummy behavior)
-Wylted (for reasons unknown)
-Moozer (sheeping the above two)"
post 199 follows the same logic of attacking the logic of somebody who is on your wagon and gaslighting them.
Scum read reason 2
Austin is lying and we should lynch all liars
post 132 about Savant
"I scumread him because it looked like he was pretty much coasting on his "first to claim" thing which means close to nothing in terms of towncred imo yet apparently he thought it makes him unlynchable this DP? yea not rly sure where that comes from. "
He scum reads savant, this is after placing his vote, so no reason to lie here.
post 137, he also doubles down that he had a scum read on savant
"lready said I scumread you because I felt you were coasting on your early claim in a way that didn't feel genuine. I asked you why because I wanted to see whether your reaction was coming from an informed ("oh no I've been caught but he doesn't know that") or uninformed ("I'm being pushed for no reason") perspective."
post 133, he claims to never scum read him and just be reaction testing. So he either lied about the mere reaction test or lied about scum reading him.
"Savant, why would you claim though? You only had two votes and mine was literally just a reaction test."
Scum read 3
Austin is trying to look like he is scum hunting by merely just making random comments about theory. We all go off on theory here and there but this feels like austin is trying to mimick being active.
post 158 "I actually disagree a bit with this imo - I think posting reads as you catch up is one of the best ways to let other players read you. Scum have the burden of too much information, which can sometimes show in an unnatural read progression."
This isn't scum hunting and it is fluff he does it more.
post 111, another excuse to talk theory instead of scum hunt to simulate activity
"Somehow missed this earlier. Although I can understand why you did this, I advise you not to do it in the future. Claiming a SOP role will always lead to measurable harm for town because it narrows the POE for scum to fire in.
You have to weigh whether the benefit town gets from knowing the SOP is greater than this. I don't really think that's the case with this particular role, since if town is really so divided that we can't agree to a lynch after an entire day of discussion, then it's better to have a negative utility role eliminated for POE."
scum read 4
Scum have this tendency to make double statements that follow the pattern of this guy is scum but also he is town.
Post 149 "For the record, I think Savant is lean town for his role, but I feel he's vastly overreacting to a single vote on him and it makes me uncomfortable."
he leans town and scum. lets see how often this comes up. post 108, savant is also both town and suspicious allowing austin an out for a mislynch
"was sussing Savant earlier for this but idk rly. It seems a bit contrived but I also think town is more likely to just put their thoughts out there whether good or bad."
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OMGUS is not a scum tell despite people thinking otherwise. It is a noob characteristic though
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@Savant
So read through Dp1 that game. Austin doesn't exhibit the multitude of scum tells I see here. Give me a minute. Still organizing my thoughts but he should be the lynch
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@whiteflame
Yeah deali.g with some stuff for a minute but working on it. I find it odd though that you don't find his response to pressure as suspicious.
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@Savant
Can you link me to one of his town games?
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@AustinL0926
Sometimes when you are scum it feels like good players can see right through you and it would kind of explain the buddying a bit is why I asked
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@AustinL0926
I will read through after I eat pizza but link me to the post he town read you in if you get to it first
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We don't have to lynch him if people aren't convinced when the time comes but coming up 1 vote short if most of us agree is just dumb
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@Moozer325
If you are going to be gone for 24 hours please VTL him.
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I also don't think Austin is sophisticated enough to buddy up with lunatic to take advantage of those sorts of associative reads from me.
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@whiteflame
Early in the DP, Austin comes off as having a similar but distinct perspective to Luna's. There might have been some buddying going on there, but he made some distinctions that I wouldn't have expected from scum. His pushing on you later in the DP seemed largely reasonable to me, even if statements like:
I think his vote on savant was fine. The buddying I don't think is necessarily that suspicious but I do think it likely means if lunatic or Austin are scum that it likely clears the other one.
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That’s rich coming from you.
I don't understand what that is supposed to mean. I have a deep sense of empathy and always have had one.
; it’s a product of being fiscally right wing; cutting government spending on wasteful projects like this.
I don't know what you mean by right wing but you probably aren't as right wing as me and I believe in libraries, and publicly funded parades and festivals. I believe in museums.
I think it's important for major cities to have a well funded public transportation system. I also think that it is important to tear down elementary schools where a bunch of kids died in a mass shooting.
I don't think any of that shit means I am not fiscally conservative only that I am not an anarchist
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Remember when when George Bush literally kidnapped Alex Jones?
Remember when that one comedian pretended to be George Bush and called Alex Jones and Alex Jones actually believed it was Bush and started yelling at him.
Fucking dude is hilarious
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@TheUnderdog
Nobody wants to drive by the school their child died every single day. Nobody wants a bunch of true crim tourists and conspiracy theorists coming to their town to gawk at what they see as a tourist destination. You need to get out of your ivory tower and have a heart
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@Savant
I am fine with it at this point but I do actually want to provide a "case" because I want this accusation to stick. It won't be a vote for more information but a vote for..........DEATH.
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@Savant
I have different reasoning but I don't want to explain it yet because if I do it might not be presented great and my poor explanation of it could make the reasoning look worse than it is.
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