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@Sidewalker
OK, so let me get this straight, the Bible says that God made a group of people whose existence is a sin, so we should oppress, marginalize, and discriminate against them because of who they are, but God doesn't hate them, he just hates how he made them?Please great scholar, explain it to me.
You look at God like he is some type of hateful being when in reality, he's not.
It's simple really:
God made people.
People sin.
God hates sin.
God loves people.
God doesn't hate people.
God doesn't love sin.
Simple.
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https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/transgender states Transgenderism is valid. Are there any scientific studies that confirm the opposite? If so, can you please send a link?
The APA is highly politicized and has been for a while now. I wouldn't recommend getting info, off there, given their facts don't line up with reality.
Define the Americas without using the word “America” (or the names of any countries as this would be akin to defining woman as the billions of women on this planet.)
First off, don't dodge the question.
Secondly, I can.
Americas: Two continents that contain, countries such as Brazil, Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, etc.
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@Sidewalker
Maybe you should do more research on the Bible, so that you can actually argue this stuff......ok "kiddie"?
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@Sidewalker
You win kiddie.You have convinced me that the Bible is actually a guide to which groups of people we should oppress, marginalise and discriminate against.Now be a good little Trumper and tell me what other groups of people God wants me to hate, I don't want to miss any.
God hates sin.
Not people.
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@Sidewalker
Nope, homosexuality is not mentioned in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Ezekiel 16:50
2 Peter 2:7
Jude 7
So sayeth the YouFound_Lxam? The Bible does not say that, you did.
Genesis 2:23-25
" The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame."
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@Stephen
And YOUR GOD HATES BOTH!
He hates the sin, not the person.
Just to clarify.
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@Sidewalker
Well, here's another example.
In Genisis, it talks about the creation.
During this story, he talks about man, and woman.
God made men to be with women. No exceptions.
Why would God allow men to be with men, if he didn't create us to be that way in the first place. It is unnatural. It is against Gods creation.
So, you can use semantics to fight back what those verses mean. But the fact of the matter is that it is a sin in the Bible, and it is shown as a sin.
It is very prominent in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is another way to show the sins of homosexuality.
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@Sidewalker
I'm not THAT old, but I would assume that yes, it existed before the 19th century.
Ok, so if it existed before the 19th century, we could safely assume, that people had a name for the practice of homosexual acts or being homosexual in general. It wasn't the word homosexual, so what was it?
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@Sidewalker
That's correct, the word "homosexuality" did not exist untill the 19th century.
No, my question was: Did homosexuality itself exist before the 19th century?
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@Sidewalker
The word homosexual was not even coined until the 19th century and the various New Testament translations of the word homosexual that were inserted after 1946 are agenda driven at best.
So, homosexuality didn't exist until the 19th century?
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@Sidewalker
The word homosexual was not even coined until the 19th century and the various New Testament translations of the word homosexual that were inserted after 1946 are agenda driven at best.
So, homosexuality didn't exist until the 19th century?
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@Stephen
But this young maiden was chosen above all women on earth to conceive, bare and give birth to the son of a god! How could god get so much wrong.?He didn't fulfil the promises made to his mother Mary, the "blessed among all women" concerning this holy child. And he chose a neglectful "blessed among women" to have his child given that she failed even to notice him missing for a whole day and didn't recover him for four days.
You're looking at it from a worldly standpoint. Blessed does not always mean physically blessed. How do you know he was not talking about eternally blessed in a different way?
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@Sidewalker
That's from the Old Testament, is there anything from the New Testament that provides this guidance to Christians.
Romans 1:18-32:
"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
So you chose to be heterosexual, it could have gone either way. Did the Bible help you decide?
Yes, I guess if I was attracted to men instead of women, then it could have gone either way.
The bible leads me to the righteous path. I have always been heterosexual. To assume the Bible helped me decide, is also assuming that I was confused about my sexual preference, which I have never been confused about.
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@Sidewalker
I've read the Bible, please provide the verses that say it is a sin.
Leviticus 18:22: "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."
Are you saying your sexual orientation was a choice? You could have chosen to be gay?
Yes, people can choose their sexual preference. Not their personal sexual preference (what they would like to be) but their sexual preference when it comes to whom they are attracted to.
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@Bones
Don't get into it - it's all wrong anyways.
Ok then. You have the free will to believe that ;)
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@Lemming
Free will at its finest.
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@Bones
A fact based one.
Still, your opinion.
Facts beg to differ though, but I will not get into that conversation right now, because it is a long argument.
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@Bones
He doesn't exist though...
Ok, well that's your opinion.
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@Bones
Why does the bible have authority?
Because it is God's word.
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@Bones
Why is it a sin.
All of the verses in the bible that say it is a sin.
If you are going to argue against the Bible, you should at least read it first.
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@Bones
Ok. Thank you for giving up with your argument, because obviously you don't have enough belief in it to continue the argument.
Why is it a sin.
Nevermind.....
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@Bones
I think this conversation is done - your entire predication for this stance, the Christian God, is not even justified so the entire topic here is irrelevant.
Ok. Thank you for giving up with your argument, because obviously you don't have enough belief in it to continue the argument.
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@Bones
You are forcing and threatning gay people by asserting that what they feel is wrong, and that to act in those nonharmful ways will result in eternal burning.
Force: "make (someone) do something against their will."
No true Christain's are forcing any gay people to convert to Christianity.
To be homosexual is not a sin. To act upon your homosexual desires, or to look at men as a man with lustful intent is a sin.
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@Bones
Just as how it's cruel to make a non-boxing fan participate in boxing, isn't it cruel to force a non-hetero to deviate from their homosexuality?
Again....I never said anything about forcing.
It irrelevant to your argument, and mine.
Question:
Did someone force you to do something you didn't want to do?
And is that why you bring it up so much?
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@Bones
What if it all fails? I know many people, pacifists or the elderly, who will never love boxing. Would you say then it would be immoral to force them into boxing?
Woah....I never said anything about forcing anyone into anything.
And for your question, if it all fails, then....it fails.
You can't use this argument:
Some people will never like this thing.
Therefore no one has free will to change what they like.
I mean you could, but it makes no sense.
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@Bones
Would you agree then in this circumstance there is nothing practical to do to change this individuals perception on boxing?
No. Maybe other things might change their perception on boxing.
Examples:
Watching others succeed at boxing.
Just simply watching boxing.
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@Bones
What am I wrong about.
Your argument. What you're arguing. If you can't remember what you are arguing, then your arguments right now are useless.
Don't pull that crap on me. It's not going to work. Here's a better question.
What are you arguing?
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@Bones
So, through repetition, any given act can become desirable?
Not in all cases, but yes.
Again, I can't speak for everyone.
Example:
One person might not like boxing, and start to box every day, but even though they do it every day all day, they might not like it.
Another person might not like boxing, and start to box every day, and end up loving it.
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When do you admit you are wrong.
When I realize I am wrong.
But I don't know, maybe you just haven't realized it yet.
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@Bones
Why didn't you just say yes.
Because again, I can't look into the future.
Let me spell this out for you. You said:
provide me one example where you cannot change your personal desires.
There is no instance where you cannot change your personal desires.
But there are instances where some people's personal desires don't change. That doesn't mean that they don't have the freedom to change it.
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@Bones
From your debates, you would know about screwing up arguments.
At least I don't have an ego, and admit I am wrong, when I realize it. I don't try to save myself with dumbfounded arguments like yourself.
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@Bones
Does not address what I said. Seeing as how you believe that evolving from finding women sexually attractive to finding men sexually active, and evolving to love roadkill eating are all possible, provide me one example where you cannot change your personal desires.
There is no example.... because people have free will. And I cannot look into the future.
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@Bones
Wrong - holistic does not require that every part of a given system are in harmony. If I say "holistically, the participants enjoyed this certain drug", it does not entail that every participant enjoyed it.
So.... you do realize that you just screwed up your entire argument....right?
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@Bones
If the cases of "yes" includes finding women sexually attractive to men and roadkill eating, I can't imagine anything that would be in the "no" category.
Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but your imagination isn't always right.
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@Bones
You are telling me that if you endless ate roadkill, you would eventually love it?
You were talking to me. I am not speaking for everyone when I said "Yes".
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@Bones
So repetition will eventuate into joy and passion for any given act?
In some cases, yes.
In some cases, no.
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@Bones
You are telling me that if you endless ate roadkill, you would eventually love it?
Yes.
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@Bones
Instead of reading anecdote, how about actual science?
Yes, because a blog is actual science.
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@Bones
How would you go about doing that? I'm very curious.
Glad you brought it up.
I would go about doing that, by eating roadkill and horse s**t.
Just as a heterosexual person, would go about changing their preference, by sleeping with men, or looking at men in a lustfully way.
Vice Versa as well.
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@Bones
I am arguing that holistically, being homosexual is something out of an agents control. Sure you can find aberrations - people who are doing it for the social praise and because they want to feel apart of the LGBT community, but people who are actually homosexual cannot, through sheer will, change this preference.
If you listen to Sy Rogers, then you will see, he talks about how he was actually homosexual, and even when he became a Christian, he still felt that homosexual urge. But over time, he became heterosexual. He went from an actual homosexual and changed his preference to become heterosexual.
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@Bones
Ok sure I'll just change it to the observation that you cannot start loving the idea of eating road kill and horse shit, therefore you inability to love doing these things means you have no free will. Is that a valid inference in your opinion?
But if I really wanted to, I could love the idea of eating roadkill and horse s**t. Therefore, I do have free will.
You can't dictate what people think, and how they are going to think.
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@Bones
Giving me three rebranded sources on the same topic isn't going to help you.
The point I was trying to make by doing that, was to show you that someone who was openly gay, became straight. He changed his sexual preference. Therefore, it is possible to change your sexual preference.
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@Bones
Unfortunately, a false equivalence on your part.
- Having no choice to change your sexual preference.
- Does not entail you have no freewill.
Just as how
- Having no choice in jumping to space.
- Does not entail you have no free will.
Your comparing preference, to physical ability?
Ok then......
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@Bones
Your source was a Christian website which I do not give any merit to. More importantly, it did not address the question I gave you. I asked you whether you could become gay. Not what your site states.
Ok fine. Here you go:
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@Bones
Your argument is saying, no one has the ability to change their sexual preference.
And in saying that, you are saying that no one has free will. No one has the freedom to choose who to love.
You are basically arguing against free will.
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@Bones
I've pretty much quit debating and I would only make an exception if someone extraordinary joined the scene. Seeing as how I diffused this guys argument for God in about 100 characters, I doubt he is the one.
You haven't diffused my argument; you have just asked more questions.
Taking the crown after no one gave it to you
Stop telling yourself lies and look to the truth.
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@Bones
Well, you obviously didn't use my example by any means (even you were the one who asked for one).
You took my evidence that you asked for, and said: "Frankly, I don't really care."
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