Total posts: 705
Posted in:
Coal. Stop. Your tunneling is becoming decidedly antitown
Created:
Posted in:
Well, if there was ever any doubt, it should be clear that coal is definitely town now.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
Actually, walk me through your reasoning for why you think I have the role you believe I do.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
You know theres no good way for me to answer that question without hard claiming, right?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
In the world where TUF is scum, I think TUF is actively trying to derail the Ragnar wagon whether Ragnar is town or scum
I dont think this is true in the slightest.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
Also take the full BDSM test. The partial test doesn't give me the insight I am looking for.
Translation: take the test again, I didn't find anything to make fun of you for
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
Do you think there's anything in particular that's exonerated him? I havent seen anything
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
Because he's my top candidate for scum.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Your reputation shows you when you are out-witted you won't respond lol.
Kappa or Keepo?
Created:
Posted in:
To be clear, even with the modkill, there is precisely one world where advocating for a NL is an option, and that's at MYLO where town legitimately has no idea what to do. To, again, be clear, we're not in that world. We never no lynch D1. Absent an actual wagon to analyze, Objectivity's flip doesn't actually give us a lot of information to go off of. NLing give scum a free pass out of the dayphase.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@airmax1227
Scum team is Coal and Lunatic
That's spicy. So then where's your vote?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
I mean any lynch is strictly better than a NL, so yeah.
Created:
Posted in:
I dont think I'm ever hammering Ragnar unless the day's about to end in a NL. Like I just don't realistically see it. Sure coal there's a possible world where you're right and he's scum but why aren't we also pressuring Oro for the same reasons we're pressuring Ragnar?
His posts just read like apathetic townie who doesn't see value in behavioral analysis gathered during d1 but knows that town needs to be proactive to generate content but doesn't know how to actually go about doing that without analyzing behavior. To be perfectly honest playstyles like ragnar's and oro's are part of why I stopped playing on DART, but that's a rant for another day.
I dont expect my defense to save him, but if Ragnar flips green then Lunatic's vote should come under a *lot* of scrutiny.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Objectivity
Then when that logic turns out to be wrong all I can hope is that the attention turns to one or two of you three and the other five remaining players hold you all accountable.
Is town not allowed to be wrong?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Objectivity
According to the logic of YY, Zaradi, and TUF, I should be the lynch for DP1 since I am the safest bet. TUF thinks its either me and zaradi or me and ragnar. YY thinks its me and ragnar. Zaradi thinks its me and TUF. I am on all four of those lists. Just lynch me then if that's what you think.
So impatient
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
If TUF was Adam's scum partner I would expect that Adam would be being coached
Does Lunatic do this as scum? I don't remember anything about Lunatic's scumplay
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
I think if Objectivity was on the scum team with TUF we would not have seen a post like 328.
Elaborate. If anything I think 328 and 333 is strong evidence toward Objectivity/Lunatic
Created:
Posted in:
Also pretty sure Ragnar is just bad/clueless townie. I dont say that to flame
Created:
Posted in:
Specifically 333 doesn't seem like a genuine desire to sort Objectivity but rather just to fight, which is super scum-motivated and decidedly anti-town.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
What's your thoughts on 333? My current solve is Objectivity/Lunatic.
Created:
Posted in:
He has not really done much to generate discussion so far outside of trying to bus me
- Objectivity 328
Is this a slip?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
The group Dani identifies in 179 is Ragnar, Oro, Lunatic, and Airmax.Absent from Dani's group is TUF.
Tuf = Lunatic
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
You are making a case for why we should be VTLing TUF (Lunatic) for death
Not for death. Pretty sure I made it explicitly clear I dont support lynching him yet
Created:
Posted in:
Also, I'm going to sleep now because I'm tired. I hope to see Lunatic at L-1 when I wake up.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@airmax1227
I want your thoughts on 273 as well, but I could only tag 5 people at once because...*shrug*
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
@Objectivity
@Barney
@sui_generis
@oromagi
I want your thoughts on what I said in 273
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@coal
So reasoning behind why we should all be wagoning Lunatic right now:
It all starts with Dani's 179 where she says
"I'd like to pressure Ragnar, oromagi, Lunatic or Airmax. Everyone else seems townish atm. Ragnar's post directed at me seemed weird. Oromagi's posts felt weird too, but I don't know who he is or how he plays. "
She then proceeds to vote Ragnar in the next post. Pretty straightforward.
Lunatic's response in 181 struck me as odd for a few reasons. He says
"Pressure them for what? There's no character claims, and everyone's just gonna RC vanilla. Is there specific reason you want to pressure this group of people or is it just because they are "hard to read", and what does this pressure look like? "Vote to lynch airmax because im getting wierd vibes, who's behind me on this?" "
Firstly, I object to the notion that the only reasons to pressure people are for claims or to lynch them.
Secondly, it's not exactly a mystery that Dani's desire to pressure the listed players as "I wanna sort these players into 'probably town' or 'probably not town', which is the entire point of the concept of pressuring people in mafia. This whole notion of "if you're voting for someone, it should be to lynch them" is a really anti-town view to have. I could elaborate a lot more on this, but since it really merits it's own forum post from the play I've seen so far and to avoid clogging the DP with unecessary theory discussion, we'll not go too much further with it.
He then also says
"As town I feel like if you are going to apply pressure you have to have a valid reason for it, and in a set up like this the intention should be to lynch. Saying you just want to pressure people for the sake of pressuring them sounds a bit contrived. I don't see what your end goal is with this logic."
This viewpoint is an incredibly scum-sided view to take. A vote is town's strongest asset, regardless of set-up, as a means of forcing someone to produce content that you can use to sort them into townpiles and scumpiles. Votes force people to be active, as with enough votes, you die. Dying is pretty bad regardless of your alignment, so putting votes on people forces them to engage with the game in a way that, usually, gives indications as to what alignment they are. This is literally scumhunting 101. So just saying "pressuring someone for the sake of pressuring them" isn't inherently contrived - it's literally just how you play mafia from a town perspective.
This is why I feel like Lunatic is afraid of being pressured right now - Dani's 179 didn't exactly elaborate on a specific reason for why Lunatic should be pressured, so a scum!Lunatic might be concerned about having a wagon built on him for a reason he doesn't know how to defend against. This is distinct from what I remember of town!Lunatic in that he doesn't really give a damn if people pressure him - hell, he enjoys getting into 1v1s with people. So I voted him in 204 for this reason to see how he would respond to pressure being put on him.
Lunatic's 207 is an interesting way to try and act calm, so I poke at it a bit more in #212 - if he's not scared of being pressured, then why is he concerned about if my pressure has a reason behind it or not? Either way it shouldn't bother him.
Lunatic's 218 is a tipping point for me for why I'm scumreading him. He says
"Your premise (that town wouldn't equally want to have time wasted on them by being pressured) is wrong, as well as your understanding of my point in regards Danielle's intentions of wanting to pressure a random group of people with no reason whatsoever. I am trying to establish what exactly she is looking to accomplish with her pressure, or if she was simply trying to look productive with no meat in the bones, similar to your lines of questioning earlier that went nowhere. "
One, his understanding of my premise isn't actually the premise behind my pressuring him.
Two, it's really not hard to understand Dani's intentions behind pressuring a group of people she says she isn't townreading, so his statement that she wants to pressure this group (that he happens to be in) for "no reason whatsoever" doesn't feel genuine.
Three, the shading of my pressuring other players in the last line is incredibly suspect. If town!Lunatic feels like Dani's desire to pressure people, or my actions of pressuring people, are fake and aren't actually genuine scumhunting, then he should be trying to engage us to determine how our reads on the slots we're pressuring/wanting to pressure are changing to determine if we're doing it to genuinely sort people and try to solve the game or just to try and look like we're being town. This isn't what Lunatic is doing. Moreover, there's a lot of value in scum!Lunatic undermining town-sided scumhunting efforts in a way that doesn't commit you to saying that someone is town or someone is scum - saying that someone's pressure isn't 'leading to anything' is a good example of this happening.
So tl;dr - there's no genuine feeling of town mindset in Lunatic's posts. He comes off of being scared of being pressured for a reason he can't directly respond to, so is trying to undermine it before it gets rolling. At bare minimum I'm in favor of running Lunatic up to L-1, potentially flipping his slot depending on his reaction.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
I don't think there are things that are tells that apply across the board with all players. I judge tells on a case by case basis based on the personality and playstyle of the person.
That doesn't answer my question. I'm asking, from your perspective, what is *a* valid reason to pressure *someone*. It could be a specific person or not a specific person, and it could be any reason you can think of, but I want you to give me an example of a valid reason to pressure someone.
Created:
Posted in:
Also re-read 227 since you got this elaboration-boner thing going on.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Take a step back from the situation, then, and just answer the question.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
What is a valid reason to pressure someone, in your opinion?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
was the read actually as contrived as your earlier lines of questioning?
If you think the pressure I've been putting on people is contrived then why aren't you pressuring me? That seems like a pretty valid reason to pressure someone
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
That's a lot you're asking me to type on my phone. Just pressure him with me, we don't have to lynch him yet. I'll elaborate when I'm not at work and can have a laptop
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Dani, Max- arriving late, staying low is good scum strategy. Gives town a chance to start infighting.If there's any town infighting to be done, TUF's just the man to do it.
...okay. but do you think they're scum because of it? If so, why aren't you pressuring/voting for them?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
Why do you want to pressure TUF?
Because theres no way his reaction in 218 is townsided.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
I am still thinking about you (with your shirt on, if you were wondering).
There is is. You made me wait 200 posts for it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
When did I say I was scared of pressure?
So you're okay with me pressuring you for shits and giggles and it's all good in the hood?
Created:
Posted in:
Airmax is null, btw. Small town lean to Dani but I wanna see more before I commit with any strength
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@coal
Also, respond to my non-mafia related Kik message.
Be brave. Sexually harass me in the open. Dont be shy about it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
if you are going to apply pressure you have to have a valid reason for it
Vote: lunatic
Talk about being scared by pressure. That's super unlike you
Created:
Posted in:
@coal: what do you think of my pressuring objectivity?
Created:
Posted in:
unvote because I apparently forgot to bold it the first time around
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
I think theres been some misunderstanding. I asked you what you like about the reads on oro's list, not the set up of the list itself.
Created: