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@Danielle
Where are you at? I'd expect you to be pushing me by now
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@coal
And then when I tried to figure out what was going on, you shut me down
What? What do you mean I shut you down. You cant be talking about the whole "me having a PR" debacle because I encouraged you and asked you multiple times to discuss it.
But this question is strange. Are you saying you weren't trying to do the thing I town read you for?
That would depend on what you were tring me for. If it was for playing like I had a pr, then yes.
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@Lunatic
You were perplexed but also acknowledge you took a risk by playing along with coal's insinuation you were a power role?
Yes? I could've said I wasnt a pr to shut down that entire conversation and give mafia zero reason to NK me. But I didn't. So I played along with it.
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@Lunatic
Did you have a reason to doubt Ragnar's claim of having knowledge of the existence of a roleblocker?
No?
You would have known that playing along with the "draw the nk" strategy could potentially mean you would get CC'ed. If you are town you would know that's anti-town.
That is the risk associated with vanilla's trying to draw the NK, yes. That's if I get CC'd though. If I dont get cc'd, though, and I draw the NK, it's a massive win for town in that the PR's get night actions off. Town PR's getting night actions off = pretty fucking pro-town.
To be clear, again, I didn't come into the game wanting to soft a PR.
I don't buy that you really took a risk here either,
The cognitive dissonance to say that drawing the NK risks outting a TPR while also saying that I didn't take a risk is staggering.
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@Lunatic
I've answered your questions. You said your read on danielle was dependent on how I answered your questions. I want your read on danielle now
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@Lunatic
Also if you acknowledge that Coal was indeed setting you up conveniently to draw the night kill, why did you keep pretending to sound perplexed when Danielle pointed it out?
I was perplexed. I didn't think I had softed anything that day phase (still don't). So I wanted to know what she saw (which makes no fucking sense for me to ask if I'm actually a PR, btw. I'd be either ignoring or trying to stop as much discussion of me being a PR as reasonably possible).
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@Lunatic
Why does me wanting to draw the NK mean I have to believe theres a roleblocker? Why cant vanilla's try to draw the NK regardless of setup?
Also, I object to vanilla's trying to draw the NK as anti-town. Vanilla's dying over a town PR is pretty fucking beneficial for town. You are correct, however, that it is a risk, hence why I didn't come into the game wanting to do that.
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@Danielle
@Lunatic
'Nilla. The post you quote is me being frustrated at this insistence that I've been softing having a PR by coal, so that means if I get shot then it would give credence to pressuring coal as he was the only one who seemed to think I was a PR. But apparently that's not entirely true anymore given that you two chucklefucks have apparently bought into it.
The sentence you two are highlighting is me trying to say that coal has been 100% misreading what role my slot has all game long. I questioned him on it multiple times last DP and it was never answered how I was softing. But the insistence continued anyway. So if I'm gonna get handed the perfect hand to try and draw the NK as a vanilla, I might as well go for it.
To be clear: this wasnt what I came into the game trying to do. So I'll give both of you two the same challenge I gave coal: find a post where I'm softing having a PR pre-ragnar softclaim. You won't be able to, because that wasnt my gameplan coming into the game.
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@coal
As I said above, you were breadcrumbing that you were a Mason, or at least that's what I got from it, but you didn't do that before Ragnar's "claim".
If this is true then why post 545, specifically
which strongly suggests to me that Zaradi has the role I think he has and Ragnar is fake claiming. I saw this coming from a mile away but didn't want to speak up because of the impact it has on DP2 results
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Guys I work at night. I sleep during the day. The fifteen "Zaradi needs to post" posts are super unnecessary. I'm catching up and processing.
@danielle: the comment you replied to of mine was a question explicitly tagged/directed at coal, but its interesting you responded to it.
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@coal
I'm not going to speculate, openly or otherwise, on who that person is. It's obvious it's not you, but to the extent there is a doc, that person should still be protecting you because of what happened yesterday.
I'm really not sure why you would say this, as well.
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@coal
you were clearly bread crumbing that you had some kind of power role
you didn't answer me the first time I asked this, so I'mma ask this again: walk me through where I've bread crumbed I had a PR. Preferably before 532, as I won't accept any post referenced beyond this point.
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@coal
You and I are going to have a nice, long talk in the end game about a few things. I'm still digesting your post.
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@coal
Also I want your thoughts in particular on last DP and Ragnar's flip.
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@Danielle
@Lunatic
@coal
I think it's on us to carry this game as the only people even semi-actively engaging in the game. I know I'm not sold on town!Lunatic, and I don't think coal is sold on town!Lunatic, and Lunatic isn't sold on town!coal, but at this point it's either find a way to work together or just concede and let scum win. And that feels super lame, so we shouldn't do that.
I wanna start pressuring inactives to participate and force them to actually engage in analyzing behavior from last DP. My preferred order is sui -> oro -> airmax in order of most likely to actually respond to pressure to give us content to least likely. What do you think?
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@sui_generis
@oromagi
@airmax1227
You guys need to participate big time. Your DP1 impact was borderline nonexistent. If you're scum, I mean whatever you're gonna die eventually. If you're town, you're in danger of being put in the scum pool simply by POE. You need to start doing shit.
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I'mma be doing VCA from DP1. Tag me if you need me.
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@Lunatic
But we can't pretend that Coal didn't know what he was doing and the implications of the consequences when he was told he was wrong.
This is where our reads diverged. You scumread him for doing something so decidedly anti-town and continuing to do so. I townread him for it because no scum player who values their life is going to act in a decidedly anti-town manner. Hence why your unvote and defense of Ragnar was also NAI, because both town and scum have reasons to defend and not lynch a softed TPR.
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Things to do tomorrow:
Analyze Ragnar's wagon
Analyze Lunatic's wagon
Get Ragnar's claim.
Potentially more depending on flips
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@Lunatic
But you and I were reminding him the whole time it wasn't pro-town and he continued on with it anyway. That's where malicious intent =/= Naive townie is determined.
Not...really. It just shows that coal was tunneling on Ragnar, which was, as you noted, anti-town. Anti-town =/= scum indicative. Townies do things that are anti-town all the time. You have to ask yourself if the anti-town play is coming from a town perspective or a scum perspective, but that relies on the 'behavioral analysis' stuff that you enjoy not using.
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@Lunatic
Do you see any merit to what coal did as being pro town?
No but not pro-town =/= scum indicative. I don't think any of the discussion from any side surrounding Ragnar has been pro-town. But I don't scumread him for it.
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@Lunatic
fvck
Your DDO is showing lol.
. Did you not think what coal did by inquiring publicly and loudly about Ragnars claim was scummy? I got the vibe you did.
Remind me which part in particular you're talking about?
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The fucking depressing thing I can't even townread this AtE, which I normally do, because I can see both town!lunatic and scum!lunatic getting pissed off for being lynched for things that he doesn't perceive as scummy.
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@Lunatic
you ignorant prick.
It's probably better for both of us if we stop this line of conversation.
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I like data. Right now, the only real data we have is that Ragnar claims
The crux of the problem with mafia on DART.
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@Lunatic
If I would have stayed tunnel vision on ragnar (which you should admit is anti-town based on your own interpretations of events) I wouldn't be at L-1 right now.
Not necessarily true, but not necessarily false either. It's the manner in which you do something that you're being scumread for, not the literal act of doing something a.k.a. the "behavioral analysis" boogyman.
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@Lunatic: If you think my reasoning for why you're scum is bad because I'm not going to debate the finer points of the case for why you're scum with you, then that's a level of stupid that I can't really help.
Also your reading comprehension needs work if all you've gotten from recent posts against you is "you stood up for Ragnar" as if just that literal statement is the reason.
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@Danielle
I hate your answer. If you look at 662 where you say
I dunno if Lunatic hinted at having a role though (Zaradi did)
that's time stamped as posted eight minutes before you posted 663 where you say
I just remembered this post. If you're the mason, say so. If you're not then I have no idea why you would say this.
So I highly doubt this was the reason you had at the time of writing 662. What was that reason?
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@Lunatic
I haven't done anything scummy.
The sad thing is that I can believe that you believe this is true. Which says some sadly disappointing things about how mafia is played on DART.
inb4 you won't explain to me why I'm scum so you must not have a reason. Trying to convince you that you are scum is the epitome of not fucking helpful
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@Lunatic
Keep in mind the reason I am getting lynched too, because I stood up for Ragnar.
Let's be perfectly clear: this isn't why you're being lynched and you know it.
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@sui_generis
That is not the vote I expected you to have but that's okay because it means we can probably get the Luna lynch.
Vote: Lunatic
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Also if people are lurking right now they need to be posting instead: the day phase is about to end and we need a lynch target.
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@coal
We're not getting a Lunatic lynch today, unfortunately. We dont have the time to get enough people to hop over.
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@sui_generis
You said you were okay to sheep danielle. Why aren't you?
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Day 1 ends in 3 hours and 15 minutes,
O. Okay nevermind.
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@Danielle
I dunno if Lunatic hinted at having a role though (Zaradi did)
You said this in #662. Where did I soft having a TPR?
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Unvote
This game is way harder than it needs to be. I need to do some re-reading.
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@Lunatic
My reaction to ragnar's claim was perfectly normal.
Your reaction is also NAI, so trying to turn it in for towncred doesn't really work.
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I'm gonna throw this out there: if Ragnar's lynched today and I get shot tonight, I think there's strong merit to pressuring coal. Because holy shit I don't think I can say it any different way without hardclaiming.
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@coal
Also, he says we should be treating him like he's dead. Why, because he knows there's not a doctor? Did he maybe not think about that when claiming what he did? But the fact that he says that there is nothing that can save him implies that he knows that there's not a doctor in the game; just like he knew the setup based on the knowledge of his scum-mate's role.
I don't think this is necessarily fair. It's reasonable to think that when you claim a TPR that your likelihood of dying goes up significantly. Sure assuming Ragnar is a cop there's the possibility that a doctor is in the game, but a) that might also not be the case, in which case there's a very-close-to-zero percent chance that he lives through the night, and b) even if we assume that a doctor does exist, it also relies on the doctor targeting him to protect which, given his mixed reviews by people alive currently, might not necessarily be a given? Two people openly don't believe him or his claim.
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@Lucky
Why am I the one who gets tagged here? Fuck you >.>
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@coal
I await your further considerations with baited breath.
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@coal
You're not oblivious enough to not know what I meant.
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@coal
And has that changed now that I've made it pretty clear we're not lynching ragnar?
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@Barney
If you're around, you definitely need to be contributing more.
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