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@Best.Korea
Never mind.
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@Best.Korea
Where is it explained in the Bible?
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@Best.Korea
But what about obvious inconsistencies, such as the two genealogies of Jesus?
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@Best.Korea
#5From my point of view, Bible is to be understood literally and is to be studied with greatest respect and dedication.
Does that mean every word literally?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I would prefer a different movie: a boy being torn to pieces by a rival, and his mom trying to put him together again. This would be more Egyptian.
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@Stephen
According to Ahmed Osman (Christianity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion), "All the central characters of both the Old Testament and the New Testament were real historical Egyptian figures, who lived in a different period than have believed up till now."
Osman associates the Bible's King David with Tuthmosis III, 5th Pharaoh of the 18th dynasty; Solomon with Amenhotep III (8th); Moses with Amenhotep IV (9th, aka Akhenaten); and Joshua / Jesus with Tutankhamun (11th).
Osman says that the Biblical account of David's campaigns matches the account of Tuthmosis III's in the Annals at Karnak. He then goes on to present mountains of evidence for his other assertions.
He also claims that Joseph of the OT was Yuya, minister to Tuthmosis IV & Amenhotep III, and Yusef to the Israelites. His wife was Tuya / Asenath, daughter of Potiphera, priest of On (Heliopolis). They had two sons, Anen (Mannaseh) and Aye (Ephraim), and a daughter, Tiya, who became the wife of Amenhotep III. He cites Genesis 45:8, which says that Joseph was father to a Pharaoh.
According to Josephus (Antiquities, II, 9-12), Moses led an Egyptian army to defeat Ethiopia, which had previously conquered Egypt. He then married Princess Tharbis, daughter of the Ethiopian king. He learned of an Egyptian plot to kill him, so Moses fled to Midian (the Bible relates that he fled because he killed an Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew).
Osman: Parts of Proverbs are based on the Egyptian maxims of Amenemope (Amenhotep III). (p. 249, citing John Bright, A History of Israel, 1960, p. 199).
The above is only a small selection from Osman's many books on this subject.
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@YouFound_Lxam
In the bible, it says that God created man in his own image, and women from men's ribcage.God also refers to himself as male in the bible, many times, and so does a lot of others in the bible. ...But God calls himself man to represent the dominancy of him and his power, to us humans who cannot comprehend him.
Yes, in Genesis 2:7 god creates woman from the man's rib.
But then, in other verses it puts it a different way:
GEN 1:27, So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
GEN 5:2, Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Looks to me like there are two different versions of the creation of human beings.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I have a different question.
#17God is a being, not a person.We cannot physically hear, see, feel, or touch him.God is a being that exists outside of Time, Space, and Matter.He defies the laws of what we know to be true, because he created all that we know to be true.To explain even better, God is the almighty creator of the Universe. God is Love. God is Kindness. God is Gracefulness.God is everything good.God is without sin, or any imperfection.#20The point I am trying to make, is that God is not a physical object that can be defined with our senses that were designed to sense physical things. We can still have encounters with God, but not the same as physical things.#21Same with God. You can't physically hear, touch or see him, but you can see his effects all around you ....
My question is, why do you refer to your god as he / him?
By your definitions, your god appears to be sexless.
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@ebuc
Thanks for the explanation. I have no definition to offer ... I'm just curious to hear others' thoughts.
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@ebuc
I'm not used to seeing life equated with soul. You mentioned bacteria as an example. It looks like you don't consider 'soul' to mean more than simply being alive. Is that correct?
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@Melcharaz
and thus a machine is less intelligent than man. because it has no spirit or soul.
How does spirit / soul relate to intelligence (assuming that spirit / soul refers to something real)?
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The references to the Sumerian epics fits into the section about "Imitation of Ancient Literature."
Thanks again.
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“Write this letter to the angel of the church in Laodicea. This is the message from the one who is the Amen—the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s new creation": Revelation 3:14 .NIV
Amazing! and thank you for the reference. I missed this one when I was researching my "What is the Bible?" presentation.
I had a section about Ahmed Osman's books, and this reference fits right in.
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I knew that the flood story in Gilgamesh preceded the biblical one, but I was totally unaware of the "Moses" story in Mesopotamia.
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@Stephen
Which gnostic gospel do you refer to (re Jesus / Amen)? I'd like to read it.
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@Melcharaz
Well, the Bible is supposed to be the word(s) of God. When sentences contradict each other, I need some explanation. You expect me to be open to words which make no sense to me? If that is what your god requires, then I reject the words and the god.
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@TWS1405_2
Compared to the number of Americans that were there, yeah, by definition, they were few far and between.
We have a disagreement, and I have no reason to believe that either of us will change our mind. So, I won't post more of the same.
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@TWS1405_2
The few who broke a couple of windows or pushed their way in…sure.
There is video of many protestors overcoming barricades and assaulting officers. Then there were some windows broken and doors forced open. After that there was some looting. I would not characterize the groups of people who did those things as a "few."
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@TWS1405_2
Breaking and entering is not tourism. Some Capitol police resisted, some did not. Some protestors went looking for Pence, Pelosi & AOC and were led away from them by one Capitol policeman. I think Trump and some protesters were heard calling for Pence to be hung.
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@TWS1405_2
such as MAGA Republicans trying to overthrow our elected government in the name of the ConstitutionNever happened. That was a protest. Helluva lot more peaceful than Burn Loot Murder.
Yes, it was a protest, AND they forced their way into the Capitol building, looted a bit, expressed a desire to kill the Speaker, AOC, VP Pence, and others.
That does not seem peaceful to me.
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@FLRW
Thank you.
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@TWS1405_2
Good article ... I learned some things from it. It's also hard for me not to demonize certain people, such as MAGA Republicans trying to overthrow our elected government in the name of the Constitution. There are not many things that cause me to fear for my existence, but the MAGA people is one of them. (I think of them as the fascist wing of the Republican party.) On the other hand, there is no longer any doubt that some on the left have taken "wokeness" too far. It's the nature of the times ... more and more people seem to be losing their self-control in public. There may be many reasons for that, but there is also no doubt that Trump contributed to it.
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@Melcharaz
You mentioned a verse from John in both of your last two posts.
I have a little problem with John. Maybe you can help me.
JOH 14:6, ... no one comes to the father except through me.
JOH 6:65, ... no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.
To me, this looks like an endless loop.
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@FLRW
Richard Dawkins himself has joked about atheists possibly being "despairing neurotics driven to suicide by relentless cosmic angst" because they lack the emotional and psychological consolations of religion. However, emerging evidence suggests that convinced atheists may derive consolation from a certainty of belief in their own solidly-held worldview, leading to similar mental health to the highly-religious.
Being atheist is mentally healthy, because it relieves me of the burden of a perfect, judgmental being watching everything I do every moment of my life.
It also stops me from wondering where I will spend eternity. I am certain that the end of my life is the end of me. That helps me to accept death. I won't have to account for my life because I won't be. This is also a nice marriage of the personal view with the cosmic view. My life matters to me, and it is totally meaningless to the universe and whatever else is out there.
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@Melcharaz
@YouFound_Lxam
My post #49 should have been directed to Melcharaz, not YouFound_Lxam. It was derived from the scriptures Mel mentioned: Matt 5:43-45 & James 3:1-2. I wrote: "Give to the poor, love everyone, and say the right thing at all times."
Speaking of James and giving, that reminds me of the "only faith matters" / "works matter" split that goes all the way back to Paul & James. It is still being argued today, and makes me wonder why.
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--> YouFound_LxamThat is the answer.The bible might not explicitly say Mary is the descendants of these people, and joseph of these, but using some common sense, we can work out that both Mary and joseph had sides of the family. And those sides of the family were read aloud in the bible.It's just basic common sense.
One problem, as I see it, is that both genealogies show Joseph as the father of Jesus. Why would the author write Joseph if they meant Mary?
And secondly, if you are correct, since both say Joseph, how do we know which one is the real Joseph and which one is supposed to be Mary?
Thirdly, how do we know when to take a text literally, when to take it metaphorically, and when to use common sense to decide what the text was supposed to say?
I need help here to understand who is who and whose interpretation to believe, not to mention that some say all the text is literally true.
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@YouFound_Lxam
But there's nothing in the text to suggest that one is a different side.
That is made up by apologists to preserve inerrancy.
I need a better reason to believe that there is no contradiction.
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I joined in 2019 and was inactive until the last couple of weeks. I'm an atheist and political liberal with what I think is an open mind. I am fascinated by religion, especially Christianity, and I have studied them informally quite a bit. I came here for the debates, and I am disappointed that so many debates result in forfeits. I hang out in the forums, because it's easier to engage people there.
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@YouFound_Lxam
... there are no contradictions in the Bible.
The above is from your post #30 above.
I disagree with that, so I'd like to get your take on one seeming contradicton that I'm sure you are familiar with: the two genealogies of Jesus (Matt. 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38). I think there are many problems with these genealogies, but let's start with the most obvious one. From Abraham to David, the two genealogies agree. After that, Matthew shows 28 generations from David to Jesus and Luke shows 42. Of those, only three names appear in both lists: (Zorobabel, Salethiel, and Joseph). That leaves 64 names not common to both. How do explain this?
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@YouFound_Lxam
OK, Thanks.
Give to the poor, love everyone, and say the right thing at all times. Not easy to do.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, ....
The word "perfect" here puzzles me. I always thought that perfection was impossible for a human.
In the Christian context, what does it mean for a human to be perfect?
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@Tradesecret
You make atheists sound like a bunch of weirdos.
Be that as it may, I'm more interested in discussing your ideas about the bible.
I have nothing further to say about the topic of this thread.
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@Tradesecret
Where did you see atheists that are living like wild animals, without control, rules or social norms? Who are they? I don't know any atheists who could be described in that way. Tell me where I can find them or read about them.
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@Tradesecret
Perhaps America is still more Christian that the rest of the World.
Perhaps it is. I didn't know you were from Australia. I only know the USA, so I can't speak to your experience there.
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@Tradesecret
They have lobbied to ensure that Christian influence is removed from almost every arena in society.
To say "from almost every arena in society" is laughable.
Christianity is proclaimed in churches, on TV and radio, on street corners, waiting rooms, billboards, etc.
Christmas music is everywhere in public during that season. Bibles are in every hotel room.
Secularists, such as I, lobby to remove Christian influence from tax-supported venues, such as public schools. That is because non-Christians pay taxes too. That is all we ask.
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Intelligence is useless if you don't know anything.
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@Lemming
I had the idea that pro-lifers were religious, so I wanted to find out if that was true. You showed me that it's not 100% true.
My thoughts are similar to those I quoted from Uragirimono. Why do those who are not affected by a woman's decision about pregnancy termination think that their preferences should be enshrined in law? I think I understand the religious objections, but I wasn't sure there were other kinds of objections. My own opinion is that the pregnant woman and her doctor should be able to make that decision without interference.
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@Lemming
I read the comments at the links you provided and found them interesting and informative.
The ones that affected me the most were:
Public-Choice #191: A baby has every right to be there. The contract was signed when the penis entered the vagina. The risks were clearly delineated and accepted.
[ I strongly disagree with this. The unborn is not a party to the "contract," and it has no rights. (I also don't believe there is such a contract.)]
Uragirimono #224: But who do you think you are that you can allow a mother to do anything? Why do her motivations have to meet your standards in order to be valid, particularly since her decision either way won't affect you at all?
[ I agree with this. I think it is very well said.]
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@Lemming
But until a certain point in the pregnancy, there is no "child," only a potential child. Certainly, neither a fertilized egg, nor a mass of undifferentiated cells can be thought of as a child. Is it not true that opposition to abortions at these early stages derives from some people's belief that it is against God's will?
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@Lemming
lnteresting.
Couldn't it be argued that the pregnant woman consented to the sex act, but not the pregnancy?
What if her birth control failed? Or the man lied about being infertile?
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@Lemming
To get back to my original request ... What are some non-religious arguments against abortion?
I get that one such argument you make is that human life begins at conception. Are there others?
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@Lemming
A fertilized egg is two cells only. Two cells do not a human make.
My understanding is that even after the cells divide, they are still undifferentiated, and so are human only because they contain human DNA.
But DNA can be extracted and worked with to do other things. So I think you need more than raw DNA to be human.
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@Lemming
I think abortion applies to the termination of a pregnancy at any stage.
However, I can't see that a fertilized egg is a human being. If I eat a fertilized egg, I don't say I ate some chicken. I say I ate some eggs.
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@Lemming
Does your "unborn" include embryos as well as fetuses?
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Is there a non-religious argument against abortion?
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@Alec
I also sent you a friend request.
I'm not a member of Facebook (I have privacy concerns).
If your request went elsewhere, please let me know.
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