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bmdrocks21

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At What Point Does the "Racism" Boogeyman Go Away?
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@thett3
Yeah a lot of cops really are trigger happy r*tards, some of the more egregious police shootings were of white people (think Daniel Shaver, or that white kid who was shot for answering his front door holding a Wii remote.) Whether or not black people are more likely to be unjustly killed, I don't know. It definitely seems possible to me that they are, but the media/establishment narrative is so often wrong, and many of the prominent examples have turned out to be outright hoaxes, so I don't know. Either way, being pulled over by the police needs to be viewed as a hazard to be survived. 

The cop thing is hard because I don't want to stigmatize the police and I do think the vast majority of them are good...but as a civilian, I have no way of telling the bad apples from the good ones. I don't think the police indiscriminately gun people down, but clearly some police get spooked easily and are always given by judges and juries a very wide latitude in their abilities to use lethal force. In effect, it isn't that different. And while it's true the world is more brutal than liberals want to admit (think of the "why not shoot him in the leg?????" nonsense), SWATing people just isn't a thing in other developed countries...some reform is definitely needed. In a more just society the police that killed Daniel Shaver would hang. 

Oh, I remember Shaver. POFS cop shot him while he was crying and crawling on the ground. A botched lethal injection would be justice.

If we're worried about retard cops, expect that to only become worse as cops are abused and "defunded". They will have to decimate the hiring requirements to get anybody to fill those jobs. All of the good ones are filing for early retirement.

But they have guns. They don't know if you do, if you'll kill them to try to not go to jail because there are drugs in the back or whatever. If you're a parent that doesn't teach your kid to act responsibly in that situation, you're likely a bad parent.

Historical oppression resulting in a cycle of poverty contributes to the crime and misery. Sorry, but it does. However it's role is greatly exaggerated, and tens of millions of people of all races (including the vast majority of poor blacks), survive poverty without becoming violent criminals. Violent crime is the fault of the choices of violent criminals. Full stop. That said, we do need to do what we can to break this cycle--if ACTUALLY helping black people came at someone else's expense (like fake band aids such as reparations and affirmative action) things would be more morally grey, but fortunately, the exact same policies that will help working class whites, hispanics etc are also the policies that will most help black people.

And yes...there is a genetic and cultural component to group differences, and denying that is just anti-science. But our society doesn't give a fair shake to working class people, and cultural changes since the 1960's have wreaked havoc on the lives of low socio-economic status groups. Charles Murray's book "Coming Apart" really delves deep into how these changes negatively effected working class whites. We can, and should, do better for everybody. You're right that disparities will probably always be chalked up to racism...the alternative is just too painful for a lot of people. But those charges of racism seem a lot less potent when the life story of the average black person is one of upward mobility and opportunity as opposed to poverty. I think a lot of the vitriol in our society is coming from our economy becoming more and more zero-sum.

Certainly old racist policies still have some effect today, but I agree that they are incredibly exaggerated. Simply solving the 70+% illegitimacy rate alone would close a large portion of the achievement gap/crime gap/poverty gap.

Seems like that has been a much bigger issue among all races since the "War on Poverty" began the trend of subsidizing single motherhood.

Simply put, most people want to believe in that egalitarian garbage because it sounds good. It just seems wrong to most people to say "your culture is backwards and leads to failure" or "unfortunately your group on average is disadvantaged in x way" because we want to believe that all people either succeed or fail based solely on efforts, so a multicultural/multiethnic/multiracial country that believes in egalitarianism is doomed to fabricate oppression narratives, I fear.

And I think you once again hit the nail on the head. Our economy coming to push out all uneducated people into a serf class creates a lot of resentment. While Trump's concerns over immigration are well-founded, I'm sure a decent sum of his voters also wanted to scapegoat immigrants for their dying manufacturing jobs and decaying towns, even though they are only part of the cause for those.

Yes, there are anti-human forces at work here that want us reduced to consumers. It's horrible what our society has done to women in particular, almost every young woman I know is profoundly miserable and a great number are mentally ill, needing an intense cocktail of drugs to cope with what is materially an extremely comfortable life. Maybe I'm just being sexist, but I think hyper capitalism is harming women a lot more than men even if they are increasingly "winning" the competition.

Reminds me of a quote from Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber). He was a very smart guy who unfortunately turned into a terrorist.

"Imagine a society that subjects people to conditions that make them terribly unhappy then gives them the drugs to take away their unhappiness. Science fiction It is already happening to some extent in our own society. Instead of removing the conditions that make people depressed modern society gives them antidepressant drugs. In effect antidepressants are a means of modifying an individual's internal state in such a way as to enable him to tolerate social conditions that he would otherwise find intolerable.”

According to this psychology today article, the least happy demographic in America is:

A 42-year-old, unmarried woman with no children, an income of <$100k and works in a professional position (doctor, lawyer, etc.).

Now isn't that exactly what feminists are telling women to be? They don't need no man. Being a mother/homemaker is demeaning. Career and education matter most.

Also this:
"In The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness published by the American Economic Journal, researchers Betsy Stevenson and Justin Wolfers found that although women's life circumstances have improved greatly over the past few decades by most objective measures, their happiness has declined—both in absolute terms and relative to men's."

As they are becoming more involved in careers and having less kids, they are becoming less happy. Weird... I'm not against allowing women to work of course, but I believe that the social pressures that exist to prioritize careers over children is extremely toxic. Allow them to work, but instead encourage them to do what will make them the most happy- finding a loyal partner/not sleeping around during your prime, having kids.



I can tell you're very hurt/resentful at the anti-white/anti-male rhetoric that's ubiquitous in our society. I am too...but I've also come to just roll with it. It comes from a place of ignorance and projection, basically everyone who is into that sort of thing is severely mentally ill, trying to cope with their inferiority complex by inflicting their own misery onto other people. Don't let them. Above all, they're people to be pitied, as contemptible as they may be. They are immiserated cucks for global capital.

Mentally stable leftists may occasionally criticize whites (and we aren't above criticism, nobody is) but the vitriolic hatred is reserved exclusively for the miserable. It's all well and good to argue against this sometimes but don't dedicate your life to it.  The lion should not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep. Also almost all anti-white POC girls exclusively date white guys??? I don't really get it, human sexuality is weird, lol...but clearly there is a LOT going on under the surface here.

The issue is, these insane ideas are no longer just confined to college campuses. As corporations, high schools, and even grade schools adopt these "sensitivity training", "LGBT curriculums", mandatory reading of "White fragility", etc, it is going to become mainstream. So, of course I'm resentful that our country is looking like it is on the road to becoming the next South Africa/Zimbabwe.

And I've noticed that those anti-White POC trash are always looking for a White partner. I think they are trying to slander us to lower our dating market value lmao.


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At What Point Does the "Racism" Boogeyman Go Away?
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@Death23
A lot of the studies “proving” that are funded by the Pioneer Fund, which is essentially a pile of racist money intended to use science to put lipstick on a pig. Unfortunately there’s a lack of genuinely academic research on the subject due to ethical concerns and also due the political situation making it a “third rail” for researchers. Though, observations like the Flynn effect and the Minnesota twins study suggest to me that any genetic thing that might be going on is not a very substantial factor comparatively.

I think that it is an issue that isn't definitively proven one way or the other, but it seems the limited evidence available shows that there is a significant genetic component to intelligence. And genetics vary quite a bit based on the geography of your ancestors.

What Minnesota study are you speaking of? I have heard of the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, which found that both environment and genetics play a role in IQ. 

They took kids of different races and had them be adopted by affluent White parents.

They found that the IQ scores were highest for those with two White parents, then Black/White, then Asian or Indigenous American, and the lowest was two Black parents.




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a day in the life of sue, a republican
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@Danielle
I didn't read your posts back to me yet but I will at some point, probably. 
Fair enough
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@Greyparrot
lol the public school system spends a tiny part of that per person per year.
Yeah, but there is still a tiny shred of me that at least wants to care about that budget 😂
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At What Point Does the "Racism" Boogeyman Go Away?
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@thett3
Hi, Thett!

Anyone who says that they'd rather be born into a poor white family than a wealthy black family is out of their mind.
100%. They try to relate it to something ridiculous about cops just shooting you for "no reason", Black families needing to give their kids the "cop talk", or something like that.

But honestly, I'm pretty sure most White parents tell their children to keep their hands on the wheel, be respectful, and not to be rustling around in their glove box. That is common sense. Mine did, and my skin is only slightly darker than sour cream during the winter.

It is just overprivileged college students who don't understand how sh*t it is to be a demonized "evil hick/white trash/redneck" who lives in a trailer park. That world is so foreign to the gated community elite.

That train left the station DECADES ago. People like my parents are just completely screwed in this country now. And to be perfectly honest, much as it pains me to admit that leftists have a point, its not a lie to say that discrimination caused a lot of black families to miss the boat. But pointing fingers does nothing. The way to help black people is the same way to help poor white people, hispanics, etc...it's the preservation and return of decent paying blue collar jobs and a manufacturing economy. Germany does it, we can too. 
The lax enforcement of immigration laws and high importation of low-skilled workers only exacerbates the problem. They undercut the wages in jobs that high school educated people, which are often Latino and Black, need like construction work.

But bringing back blue collar jobs isn't going to be enough. The vast disparities of engaging in poor decisions creates too many issues. People don't invest in high-crime neighborhoods. Single parent households create poverty and crime.

(Looks like you touch on these later lol. I write responses paragraph-by-paragraph)

Unfortunately, since most people aren't informed, disparities will always be racism.

Ever noticed how the people parroting the white privilege stuff never propose any serious policies? That's why. There is a set of policies that would help the black community (and non upper middle class+ people of all races), but unfortunately they would decrease corporate profits. This is why corporations are behind all of the identity politics stuff. Man, isn't it amazing/libtard bullshit (depending on your persuasion :) ) that the NASDAQ is considering requiring minority board members in order for companies to stay listed? So convenient that we are talking about this instead of the gigantic wealth transfer from Main Street to Wall Street as COVID eliminates small business in this country!

I think you might be on to something here. Maybe they like conflict and separation. Helps with market segmentation :^) (ie. easy to pander to x demographic through appeals to whatever they like).

Generally, I just see it as a distraction tactic. It sure confuses those wise fools (college-educated commies with $100k student debt) long enough to enact said transfer without a word. They can't criticize Boeing or McDonald's or Goldman Sachs if they have so many minority or gay officers!

Reminds me of how the whole feminist movement is corporate sponsored. The million Maga march rivaled the numbers of the woman's march, which had months of planning and millions to astroturf their insane cause VS a week-notice social media campaign. "We need to make women work so that we can pay everyone less after expanding the labor pool. Having kids is demeaning! You wouldn't want to take months off of work and future vacation and leave days to take care of them and go to their recitals, would you?"

Honestly, I hate capitalism sometimes. Social conservatism just isn't profitable, so inevitably any soulless corporation will lobby against it at every turn. "Drug war? No, we should make money selling these drugs! Anti-abortion? We want money to kill babies and sell their bodies to researchers! Having children? We want more workers and we don't want them doing something silly like taking time off for kids!" And don't even get me started on the massive GAY WEDDING CAKE LOBBY!!!!! Just kidding >:)

There's also a classist element to it. Upper middle class liberals of all races love nothing more than to sneer at culturally prole whites about their "privilege", especially if they're actually poor. Telling someone whose barely been scraping by since 2008 after their towns factory closed about their "privilege" is just a slap in the face, which everybody knows. The humiliation is the point. 

Reminds me of this short comic:


It is all lip service about supporting the working class, but they will use any slur they can to ridicule working class White people. Just makes them feel good to pretend they gaf about them. I read part of Jim Goad's "The Redneck Manifesto: How Hillbillies, Hicks, and White Trash Became America's Scapegoats" (good book, but only could borrow for so long). Starts off with Chapter 1 "White N***ers Have Feelings Too". He talks about how the use of words like "redneck" are commonly used in publications, both in quotes and from the actual writer, but the "n-word" is only ever used in quotes, generally to demonize some White person. So, redneck, being the White version of n***er, is a common slur that is allowed to be said by all.

Shameful how privileged the White working class is, the only category of people that I know of with a decreasing life expectancy in America. So privileged to have skyrocketing rates of suicide.

dont even get me started on mass immigration lol. Just TRANSPARENTLY a ploy to lower wages and break worker solidarity. Despite everything it still shocks me that the left actually goes along with it

They used to be against it when they were a party that supported unions, and the GOP was mainly cucks for labor lobbies (still pretty much are, but we're improving lol).

Not sure if it is framed as some "anti-immigration bad. Xenophobia! Racism! Rawr!" type of thing for the voters, while the main goal of the leaders is importing voters or what. There are a lot of unironic people who argue "muh spiced ethnic food" as if that is somehow a worthwhile argument. 

Also, in case you haven't seen it, Amazon's Whole Foods internal documents show they want diversity to lower the risk of unionization. If you are Black, of course you wouldn't want to degrade yourself by pairing up with that evil White janitor! Lovely identity politics.

And to get at the subtext of your post...yes, there is a point where achievement gaps simply can't be blamed on racism, and while its unpleasant it's important to recognize that so we don't just litigate the past forever. Culture isn't the reason that the NBA or top runners are overwhelmingly black. Sorry everyone, but there are genetic differences between different groups of people. But there are things we can do to help black people that also help people of all races. We have no reason to be enemies, and becoming so is only helping wall street/the top 1%

Until the racism boogeyman stops obscuring genetic difference's effects on group performance and we quit with the egalitarian "all cultures are the same" hogwash, there will always be intense inter-group resentment for disparate outcomes. It all people and cultures are the same, the only logical reason that you could have group differences is some evil people in power working to make another group fail.

And, as you wisely point out, it only serves to distract us as we get robbed blind by the special interests.
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a day in the life of sue, a republican
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@ethang5
No, apparently America has some magical soil that can civilize the third world. Because, ya know, at the heart, aren't all cultures just the same?

Those that respect human rights and those that kill political dissidents are all valid forms of expression.

I, personally, think that having foreign food is worth the crimes and conflict. Because that's what America has always been: the great multicultural experiment to develop the best food.
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@ethang5
And liberals would howl that those not rewarded are stigmatized and harmed by not being rewarded. They would claim racism. And in the end, they would force the government to reward every immigrant simply for being an immigrant, not for any good behavior.

They 100% would. Meh meh meh, this disproportionately(their favorite damn word) awards White people because they don’t play hookie and study for exams, so they pass more often. Reeeeee
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@Greyparrot
Surprising to see this from a “libertarian” haha

It is sad that we have to overtly award people for doing common sense things like brushing their teeth.

That being said, I wouldn’t have a problem with that system. If they finish high school, I’m sure we would save more than $5000 in welfare 
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@Death23
Your defensive response toward the white guilt narrative should help you to understand why taking responsibility doesn't gain popular traction in groups. Nobody wants to take the blame. The reality is that the conditions within the black community are, to a certain extent, attributable to racism but are also attributable to other factors within the black community itself. I do think that out of wedlock births is a significant problem. Consider, however, that the children born in to those situations have done nothing to cause them. They are not to blame for that in any way. They are also not to blame for the disparities in education funding which are attributable to the property tax collections. Housing in black communities is of lower market value and the property taxes used to fund schools in those areas is consequently lower. They will grow up within a culture that, to a certain extent, glorifies criminal lifestyles, rejects education and where credibility is given by showing a readiness to resort to violence. It is reasonable to expect a significantly greater number of adverse outcomes when you run children through that environment. Yes, there is choice, but there is also pressure to make certain choices. The responsibility that we should expect people to take for making certain choices should be mitigated by the pressures people are faced with in given situations. As to whatever adverse impacts racism may be having, it is something that should be tackled. Racism does effect outcomes. It isn't entirely clear to me to what degree internal vs external problems are causing adverse outcomes, but in the end it doesn't really matter.
As usual, I agree with most of what you said.

Groups, whether or not they deserve the blame, will want to avoid taking blame for anything wrong. It is hard taking responsibility for things.

But I feel that I rightfully blame personal actions over a system that ended many decades ago. Racism still has some effect, obviously. However, I disagree that the extent to which each is a problem is irrelevant. Maybe in the long run it is, because you want to solve every problem eventually. But when something like single parenthood can increase you probability of being in poverty by more than 4x, I’d say that definitely requires priority over something that has been ended and likely doesn’t have any huge effects currently.

I think we can disagree on that funding area. Simply increasing funding by no means increases education quality (New York spends the most per pupil but is ranked #22)

And while certainly these kids grow up in a community whose culture pushes kids to act recklessly, I think we need to put a big emphasis on personal responsibility, which blaming racism will make impossible because of learned helplessness.

Kids can’t be entirely responsible for their circumstances that they are born into, but it is up to them to stop the cycle and embrace a more responsible, non-thug culture. Culture needs to be changed from the bottom-up. The government can’t change it.

Perhaps I’m out of touch, but it seems to me that racism is blamed more than reckless choices and gangster glorification. If that is the case, no amount of government spending will EVER close any disparities. I think the war on poverty has made that quite clear.
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@Danielle
As far as immigration goes, I have mixed feelings. The capitalist (and almost dead but still hanging on libertarian) in me is very pro immigration and property rights. If a business owner wants to provide a job or rent his property to someone from Guatemala, who am I to stop him? Why should government interfere with peaceful commerce? On the other hand I do acknowledge government has a role and arguably a responsibility at regulating commerce for the good of its citizens -- that's how property rights are allowed to exist in the first place. So I am not some close minded nitwit who parrots talking points from the far left. I just so happen to believe immigration is a net positive per my own experience growing up surrounded by them in NYC, and being the daughter of an immigrant myself. I have bias but unlike most people I am very open to persuasion. 

My partner has an interesting take on the immigration problem that maybe I'll get around to explaining later if I feel up to it. 
Eh, I personally dropped the libertarianism a couple years ago. Authright!

I'm quite nationalistic, so I'm not a fan mass immigration's free market arguments.

Taking in large amounts of largely uneducated workers depresses wages for domestic high-school-educated workers and prices them out of historically good job for them like construction. 

Probably why working class people are becoming more depressed/resorting to drugs and suicide.

Historically, we have had large waves of immigration then cut them off for long periods. A drastic reduction in immigration is much past due. That is a decent system- it facilitates assimilation.
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@Danielle
Lol you think this is a "gotcha" moment but it's actually funny.  You have to KILL to hunt, correct? So the purpose of guns for hunting is to kill. Thanks for reiterating that. And yes you can shoot at targets for fun, but the purpose of guns is to kill so much so in fact that if the gun was faulty and not capable of killing, it would be considered a design defect + design failure. 

Tee hee, I don't think the deer's family is going to sue you for killing it- which was the whole point (you bringing up tort law)

No, the only issue is that the gun doesn't fire. You can shoot people in different areas to disarm or incapacitate them.

You can also shoot just targets, and the last time I checked, targets aren't alive. So, I'll take your concession that guns aren't only for killing :^)

That is 100% false. I am a gun enthusiast. I own several guns and would have more if my state allowed it. My wedding cake literally had guns all over it.

Well now I'm just a lil proud. Seems like a cool cake! Congrats, as well!

You keep repeating the same irrelevant thing. You have a right to own a gun, but you have no right to have a gun made and sold to you. The constitution says nothing of the sort.  If a gun manufacturer didn't want to manufacture guns any more and decided to shut down along with all other manufacturers, and you didn't know how to make a gun yourself, then guess what? YOU HAVE NO GUN and your "right" to it means nothing. Distributors have a right to discriminate who they sell to so long as it does not fall within a protected class. 

Again you can disagree about what I'm proposing, but you clearly don't understand what I'm talking about. You should think more about it first before forming an opinion. It might actually be something you agree with considering it acknowledges the government has no right to stop you from self defense.  I know you hyperpartisans obsessed with taking down the lefties are incapable of thinking without shouting at "the other side" though. 

Lol, you paint me as hyperpartisan in order to make me "the other side" which explains your consistent irksome and disrespectful tone.

No, a gun manufacturer doesn't have to sell to you. They hypothetically COULD be sued if the same rules were applied to them.

That is why I DON'T support the same treatment as a drug company.

That is why companies like Twitter get preferential liability coverage for allowing the freedom of speech on their platform- they can't be sued for what users say on their site. (The rule isn't enforced that much when they take partisan stances, but you get the point). They can choose to be a publisher liable for content, or they can protect the freedom of speech and not be sued.

In the same manner, companies providing for the exercise of the Second Amendment should not be open to be sued out of existence over petty lawsuits that don't pan out- legal costs are exorbitant as they build up, even if the cases often have little merit.


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@Danielle
The only reason you said "lol" after pointing out that sovereign nations have immigration laws (which I've obviously never denied) is because I made you look silly regarding your ignorance of the 10th amendment. 

Your exact words were: "No, immigration law is federal in nature. I see you try to play the federalism card when convenient, even though it doesn’t apply." Then I explained exactly why my point about state's rights does apply, which is because this issue got brought up to the Supreme Court and they ruled that California didn't have to comply with the feds contrary to the position you keep taking. 

I have no idea why you mentioned SCOTUS doesn't hear most cases "tee hee" because that has nothing to do with... anything.
I mentioned federalism and SCOTUS not taking cases because you said them not taking the case was a "big win" for states rights. My point was that not taking a case doesn't mean that the Supreme Court agree with the lower court decision, but it seems that wasn't your point. Also, this was related back to me blaming states for keeping criminal aliens. I am not making a Constitutional case that they have to use state resources to apply federal immigration laws. That is irrelevant. I am blaming states that don't care to help deport illegal aliens.
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@Danielle
Deluding yourself into thinking that Democrats want rapists and criminals among their own children and society is an astonishingly stupid take. You partisans frothing at the mouth over hatred for "the other side" sound absolutely insane saying things like this. Not only is it mind bogglingly dumb to suggest people are A-okay with murderers roaming free -- and nobody has ever said that, so it's just  another thing you completely made up -- but it also makes no sense to suggest we should assume people who stay in the country illegally (i.e. non felonious criminals) are going to rob and kill people. That's ridiculous fear mongering. I hope you're not actually that ignorant and afraid. 

And no Biden didn't "change his mind" so you're wrong again. He has always said he wanted felonious immigrants out, and in fact Trump used Biden's anti immigration stance against him in the debate when he commented that Obama + Biden's administration built the cages and presided over mass deportation. So conservatives can't have it both ways and highlight that Obama/Biden were anti immigrant in their policy and then at the same time try and portray them as open border enthusiasts. I mean I guess you can try, but I'll call it out as nonsense as you can see. 

I doubt Democrats want murderers in their streets, (although their very soft on crime stance might suggest otherwise), but politics is all about unintended consequences. Every criminal at some point had no felony convictions. Simply put, being softies on illegal immigration gets dozens, likely hundreds of Americans killed every year by people who shouldn't even be here.

While I doubt Democrats wanted that to happen, not helping ICE deport them directly contributes to these deaths, or drug overdoses from drugs they sell and smuggle or however else they harm Americans.

I thought that the high level of deportations was actually a highlight of the Obama/Biden presidency. Trump was really stupid for trying to smear Biden based on his previous tough-on-crime stances in the middle of a crime wave and riots. See? I can agree with Obama on occasion ;)

Your argument is that black people blame white people for all of their problems. Here is the quote you provided: “There are fewer than 1% of black female professors in the United Kingdom … The findings show that for changes to be made, the embedded structures of racism and white supremacy need to be dismantled in preparation for an education system that is based on equitable practices and processes.” This statement makes one singular observation about one specific subject - the lack of black female professors in the U.K. - and therefore in no way, shape, or form comes even CLOSE to proving the monumentally broad statement of white people being blamed for all black people's problems. All this does is highlight exactly what I said about teachers discussing the ways history has impacted present day society. 
I didn't say black people blame white people for all of their problems, I referred specifically to how "academics" always frame the issue. I gave an example of the type of language used to shift all blame to a "white supremacy" or "systemically racist" boogeyman, while utterly ignoring other factors that contribute to the disparity- as if a disparity alone is somehow an indication of malice.

If I need a quote from a professor on all the ~600+ problems in the black community to meet your burden of proof or whatever, then I'm just not gonna bother further commenting on the point lol.

You can't find a "this percentage of professors blame white people for all black people's problems" statistic on Google Scholar.

You gave a statistic about 16% of STEM workers being brown. That doesn't prove anything about racism being "imaginary" lol what? And what does this prove about "white people being blacked for all black people's problems?" You're just throwing out useless statistics at this point. 
I'll put this in simple terms:
There is a disparity
Only explanation for disparity-"systemic" racism
Who has been the country majority with "systemic" power? White people
So who is therefore blamed for supposed "systemic" racism? White people

That is the entire formula. Just keep this in the back of your mind for the future, I don't care if I convince you rn tbh.

Formula:
Any "bad" disparity exists (there are less of "x" demographic in a good job, more negative health outcomes, etc.)
If a minority group, generally just confined to Latinos/Blacks/Women (Asians are only occasionally not used because they generally succeed at higher rates than White people) is on the bad end, then it must be because of the White people or White men specifically setting up a racist system to hurt x group
White people are evil for creating said system

There is no "well maybe they have higher rates of diabetes because they eat way too much fast food and sweets compared to other groups" no "maybe they have less wealth because they have more children out of wedlock, and single parenthood leads to poverty and crime" unless you're an evil right-wing bigot

Once you start noticing the formula, you'll see it everywhere haha.

I'll give you an example here for COVID since it is relevant:

Disparity/minorities hurt:
"An Associated Press analysis of available death data found that black people constituted 42 percent of the victims, doubling their share of the populations of the states the analysis included. In Louisiana, more than 70 percent of the people who have died so far from COVID-19 were black, more than twice their 32 percent share of the state’s population, and well above the 60 percent share of the population of New Orleans, where the outbreak is worst. In New York, African Americans comprise 9 percent of the state population and 17 percent of the deaths."

Muh Racism:
"When pressed on whether these “underlying health conditions” are “rooted in years of systemic racism,” Cassidy responded: “That’s rhetoric, and it may be. But as a physician, I’m looking at science.”
Without question, African Americans suffer disproportionately from chronic diseases such as hypertension, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, lung disease, obesity, and asthma, which make it harder for them to survive COVID-19. But if Cassidy were looking at science, then he’d also be asking: Why are African American suffering more from these chronic diseases? Why are African Americans more likely to be obese than Latinos and whites?"

Disparities in underlying health conditions blamed on- you guessed it- racism.

They never actually mention data on the differences in diets between races (fast food/fried food consumption-type data).

But they do say:
"If black people receive inferior care from hospitals and doctors, are black people to blame? If black people are less likely to be insured, are black people are to blame? If hospitals in majority-black counties are overloaded with coronavirus patients, are black people to blame?"

All attention gets 100% shifted away from those issues of diet instead of digging into them at all, thus there must be no blame on them whatsoever! In my skimming, I saw no part where the author put any blame on an affected group, simply doing a poor rebuttal of people that do.

They bring up "inferior care" racism without any link to instances of inferior care. Insurance differences have nothing to do with the much higher infection rates. There is no proof provided that hospitals in black areas were overcrowded. All emergency rooms have to accept anybody regardless of insurance. 

It is all blame for Whitey.

Meanwhile, they don't mention that Hispanics have much lower rates of insurance (20% uninsured vs 11.4% for Blacks) yet Hispanics also have a lower death rate according to the article.  https://www.kff.org/uninsured/state-indicator/nonelderly-uninsured-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

Lots of mental gymnastics to blame White people for every issue. You'll never hear that White women die in childbirth more than Hispanics based on rates, for instance. It is an inconvenient fact.

Article link:

First off minimizing the impact of horrifically racist Jim Crow laws by saying "muh Jim Crow" as if it's not significant is really childish and speaks volumes. Secondly you can't deny the existence of Jim Crow nor the impact of Jim Crow, which is why you are bringing up the fallacious red herring of other things you find to be problematic. They may be significant and problematic as well,  but that doesn't mean Jim Crow wasn't. 

Thirdly you're just flat out wrong again because all of those things are factored into analysis about crimes and livelihoods among people living in inner cities.  No one denies that fatherlessness factors into crimes nor that most crime occurs among certain communities. I'm guessing you are completely unaware and ignorant to the mountains of research on those very topics, but yes, they exist and they are talked about quite a bit.
Jim Crow- bad
Two decades later- definitely going to still be some effects(in my opinion rather small after ~2 generations have been born), but certainly not enough to still be responsible for these large disparities.

Third- I'm sure I'm much more familiar with that research, but that is completely irrelevant that there is that much research. Simply put, if you solve fatherless homes alone, you will get rid of most of the disparity on the poverty end. This doesn't even touch on other issues like culture affecting life choices.

Black motherless home: 45% in poverty
Black double married parent: 12% in poverty
Still higher than Whites by a few percent (but again, number of children is higher for Blacks, different choices of jobs/housing/age to have kids among hundreds of other factors can explain it without blaming evil George Wallace's corpse)

With that huge difference from one issue alone and the >70% illegitimacy rate, why the heck is Jim Crow still even 1/10th as relevant?

The answer is that it is much easier to blame the "racism boogeyman" than poor decisions of individuals.

In my opinion, focusing on the invisible racism from mainly the 1960s is a 100% distraction from real issues that are causing real problems, and blowing them out of proportion to shift blame and whip up votes is counterproductive.
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@Intelligence_06
This looks like something Trump's minions would write in Fox News.

What specifically?
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@Imabench
How do you think the actual results would change?

I feel like more Republicans would vote in California, more Democrats would vote in Texas, etc.

In your opinion, would they stay essentially the same, or since many large electoral vote states are Democrat, it would help by empowering Republicans whose votes are normally cancelled out?
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@oromagi
According to G. Elliot Morris, if we ran every election since 1980 using proportional electoral vote distribution, all the races would be perceived as much closer but the only outcome that would have flipped would be Trump/Clinton 2016
Boo! Hiss! Death to proportional voting!
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@n8nrgmi
This is discriminatory against the religious.

In the wise words of Greta Thunberg:

“How dare you?!”
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@Greyparrot
You can cut the bullshit with the false equivalency between immigrants pre-FDR and immigrants post FDR as if there is no difference. 
I’d say that pre-Hart-Celler Act and post-Hart-Celler Act is where the big difference came in.

It’s when we stopped caring where people came from. Total disregard for their cultures and values.

If only Roman history was required reading instead of some fucked-up dated poem on a piece of French metal.
Ah yes, the poem on the Statue of Immigration, given to us by France so that we would feel obligated to become a third world country.

I’m glad we allow a piece of foreign metal that was made because of “immigration” to dictate our immigration policy for the rest of time.
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@Danielle
Yeah, they migrated here.
You can use silly words with strong connotations to try to equate great men to 8th-grade-educated third world immigrants all you want.

Reminds me of those news articles that say “3 Teens Shot Up Liquor Store; Committed Arson”

You make the sympathetic connection “aww they’re just teens” 😂
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@Danielle
It's convenient that you linked to a graphic behind a firewall, but beyond a cute cartoon photo we can defer to what the Biden campaign has actually said about what he wants to do in his first 100 days.  They released a joint statement with Latino Victory Fund committing to a total moratorium on deportations during his first 100 days as president, and said efforts will be narrowly targeted to those who commit a felony offense in the United States or who present a national security threat. In fact there was a famous clip of some immigrant confronting Biden asking him if he would stop all removals, but Biden refused, saying he’d prioritize deporting people who committed felonies or “serious crimes” instead. The guy objected, and Biden flippantly responded “You should vote for Trump" which became a viral clip. 

But yeah, no, there's no evidence Biden or Democrats have any interest or desire to keep felonious or violent criminals in the U.S.

Well if he changed his mind after the polls said it was unpopular, then that’s fine, I guess.

And my bad, he just wants to keep non-felonious criminals here and wait until they murder a citizen or rob people to kick them out. Fair enough. I guess my bigoted self would just want those criminals deported to prevent that righteous murder of a citizen.

As I said: you have absolutely, positively, undoubtedly, not one iota or even scintilla of any kind of verifiable proof or justifiable evidence at all whatsoever that liberals or college professors "blame white people for all their problems." You want to talk about BUZZWORDS? Lol you literally just repeated the nonsense you said before. You predictably responded with nothing but more of that paraphrased rhetoric that I said you couldn't substantiate. And you didn't. And you can't.

That's because nobody "blames white people for all their problems." They just explain why the effects of slavery, Jim Crow and racism have a ripple effect that permeate in different ways (albeit watered down over the years) throughout society. People's complete and utter failure or refusal to recognize that and accept the facts, research and anecdotal experiences that are presented doesn't make racism an imaginary boogeyman, just FYI.
I think you need to take a deep breath real quick.

I gave you a quote from a researcher with a doctorate! Someone who hypothetically should be a prominent member of their respective field, and all they did was use buzzwords to blame a likely complex disparity into “muh racism”

I also showed how thousands of college-educated STEM people are protesting imaginary racism because of disparities in people choosing STEM.

And while they talk about “muh Jim Crowe” from 60 years ago, you’ll virtually never hear about how >70% of black kids are born out of wedlock, how disproportionate crime rates push all investment out of their cities, how dropping out of high school will negatively impact your future wealth.

You’re asking for a study to “prove” it happens knowing full well this can’t be studied just to “own” me because I’m not providing a study. 


I can provide you “anecdotal” cases all day, but it is clear you have already made up your mind on the subject.

I'm pretty sure you don't know anything about me or what "cards" I play and when. Another thing you don't know is the law lol. The 10th amendment of the Constitution says that states do not have to enforce federal laws, which is why some states legalized pot even though it is federally criminalized (the feds can still enforce federal laws within those states). In fact, this past June the Supreme Court refused to hear Trump's challenge to the state of California’s sanctuary law. You must have completely missed that, but it was a great win for state's rights.
Sovereign nations have federal immigration laws lol. Hence the supremacy clause which states that federal law > state law if they conflict.

I never said that the states have to enforce immigration laws. I said that California wasn’t cooperating with ICE in reference to liberals wanting to keep criminal aliens in the country.

Btw, SCOTUS doesn’t hear most cases sent to them tee hee

No, although depending on how litigious one is they can try. Knives are not as dangerous as guns though. Guns are designed specifically to kill. That's their purpose.
There are these cool news things called “hunting” and “shooting targets for fun”. You should check them out.

So yes, in short there is absolutely a legal basis for what I'm suggesting. You can disagree but you'd need to understand tort law first.
I don’t need to change tort law. I’m perfectly fine with keeping it how it is and want to keep the exemption.

Protecting second-amendment rights by preventing frivolous lawsuits against companies makes perfect sense. They aren’t responsible for idiots using their products in ways they aren’t meant to be used.

But it is clear you want to run gun manufacturers out of business because they can’t afford to fight thousands of frivolous lawsuits.

Taking OxyContin to get high isn’t a right. Owning a gun for self defense? Yeah, that is. So their respective manufacturers shouldn’t be treated exactly the same legally.

You have no reason to believe that Hispanic immigrants won't assimilate. None. All evidence points to the contrary.
Depends on how you define assimilation. English proficiency doesn’t look too hot.

Plenty of areas in the Southwest US where you need to speak Spanish to communicate with people. They have ethnic enclaves.

Unending mass immigration of any group of people is a recipe for disaster. After the Ellis Island surge, we restricted immigration immensely. Since the 1960s, the faucet has never been turned off.

The peak percent of foreign-born citizens was either around 1890 or during an uptick around 1910. In 1921, we ended our open door policy to allow assimilation to take place. 

But, under the Biden administration, with tens of thousands of more refugees and hundreds of thousands of more immigrants per year, I’m not too hopeful that will happen.

A landslide victory is not indicative of righteousness. It's also pretty amusing to see you lament partisanship while you have taken such a hardline stance against the left lol.
A landslide shows that despite some regional differences, there is still a national thread holding us together. Things we can all agree and get behind together very strongly. There will never be another landslide like those for a long time.

I hate partisanship when it isn’t useful. When it distracts from solving problems, it is bad. When it accurately categorizes people based on their beliefs, it is convenient to use for discussion. I take a hardline stance against the ideological left because most of their ideas suck, quite frankly. Some are good. I agree when they have good ideas. Although those may more be partisan-based because the GOP has bungled issues like healthcare.

Probably not. The majority of the party is pretty moderate, so much so in fact that Bernie Sanders lost in a landslide to a dinosaur like Joe Biden. He is considered a moderate with a history of bipartisan sponsorship. AOC and "the squad" are in the minority. They are considered political outsiders and hate the likes of Nancy Pelosi whom they see as an establishment hack. Most Dems are corporatist and economically moderate, though they do want government healthcare. So do Republicans according to polling. It's true the Dems might move the country left on some things but I don't see the Green New Deal or anything like that happening.
I think you’re right that as of right now the party is moderate. In the next 10-20 years, I’m quite confident in a strong leftward shift.

Look how quickly Obama/Biden flipped on gay marriage. First time, they ran against it.

Now there is a big push for a government healthcare system that would be unthinkable a decade ago. Millennials are going to become a large voting block as they age, and they are very left-wing compared to Boomers and GenX.

But I was saying that the party is too far left socially for my liking. Honestly they can’t get much further left in that respect. Some woman admitted child abuse by transitioning their small kid and Biden had nothing negative to say about that lunacy.

The fact that there was no backlash from anyone in his party for that was insane. Not a peep, at least that I saw.

Yeah, you're probably just bigoted and don't realize it or want to admit it. The fact is there is absolutely nothing stopping grown men from going into the bathroom with little girls now. If anyone has an intent on raping or harming a little girl they can and will, and no bathroom policy will stop that. Period. Thinking some little sign on the door will stop them is as insanely stupid and naïve as thinking a "no guns" sign will stop criminals from carrying guns. 

In reality the "men" who use women's bathrooms often look and dress like women. They go in a private stall (unlike men's bathrooms, you don't watch anyone piss). This is safer for them than being in the men's bathroom considering there is a history of trans people being assaulted and harassed by grown men. There is no history of little girls being harassed and assaulted in the women's bathroom. There's a history of them being assaulted and raped in general, but when people tried to talk about that it got ridiculed as a liberal crybaby movement (#MeToo) cuz rape only matters if it happens in a bathroom apparently. 
Ah yes. We bigots and our *checks notes* trying to protect little girls from being molested.

Simply having a sign up obviously doesn’t stop a man with ill-intent from going in a woman’s restroom.

But as of right now, if I saw a grown man barge in there, I would be super suspicious. Women might scream at them. But when you allow a wolf in the hen house without a second thought from anyone involved? Probably not gonna be great.

As for your gun signs, I’m sure you support no-gun zones. Seeing someone with a gun in a no-gun zone will probably tip you off of danger. Seeing a man in a no-man zone does the same thing.

And clearly you have never been in a guy’s restroom lol. You don’t watch people piss. That’s gay!

MeToo was criticized because they were publicizing stories that got people fired for very serious and oftentimes unprovable accusations.


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@Danielle
This is just your opinion and has no factual basis.  The country was founded by migrants
This country was founded by conquerors, pioneers, and explorers 💪
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@Danielle
Can you show me where he said that?
Wapo asked every candidate if they supported a 100 day moratorium on all deportations. Biden is under the “yes” column not the “yes with exceptions” column.


No, that is a blatant misrepresentation (paraphrase) that you completely made up. Literally. No teacher in the history of college has ever said that, you have no proof that anyone has ever said that, yet you will stand by that indefensible and unsubstantiated falsehood just because it suits your narrative of wanting to hate liberals for whatever reason. What does get taught in college are the ways slavery, Jim Crow, and subsequent racism have had an undeniable impact on black people's lives. Obviously that should be taught because it is relevant to our history, culture and society. Perhaps the (somewhat obvious) reason American slavery gets prioritized in our education is because we live in the U.S.

I don't know what you're referring to about "white people raising black power fists" since the beginning of the year. I know that after a police officer murdered George Floyd in the middle of the year, a lot of white people showed support and advocated change to the criminal justice system. I'm not sure what you think that proves.
Ask literally any college professor what the cause of any racial disparity in achievement is. I guarantee you that over 80% will blame some buzzword like “systemic racism” or “redlining” or “colonialism”. It would be incredibly rare to find ANY that put even an ounce of blame on any underachieving minority group.

That’s why I made a whole thread on the “racism boogeyman”. 

Here is a quote by a researcher:
“There are fewer than 1% of black female professors in the United Kingdom … The findings show that for changes to be made, the embedded structures of racism and white supremacy need to be dismantled in preparation for an education system that is based on equitable practices and processes.”

Dr Judith Bruce-Golding

Wow, the 1% of black female professors in the UK of all places, a country without Jim Crowe, are blaming the racism boogeyman for any racial disparity? Color me shocked!

Thousands of STEM workers going on strike because only 7% of STEM workers are black and only 9% are Hispanic.


No other explanation is possible. Must be evil, oppressive Whitey keeping a brother down.

And the black power fists and all the actions of submission show the obvious result of all of this pushing of White guilt.

They are a Sanctuary State meaning they don't go out of their way to find illegal immigrants, but that doesn't mean they welcome or want to keep violent criminals so that doesn't really prove anything. Besides, you don't believe the citizens of California should get to vote on the laws that govern California? Interesting.
No, immigration law is federal in nature. I see you try to play the federalism card when convenient, even though it doesn’t apply.

And this is about not cooperating at all with ICE.

Means not only not looking for them, but not giving over any info they have already collected on illegal immigrants or any actions to help them enforce federal laws


Big Pharma has settled billions of dollars worth of lawsuits regarding the careless distribution of drugs they manufacture. Gun manufacturers can be held liable in a similar way if their products get into the wrong hands. We have a constitutional right to bear arms, but we don't have a constitutional right to buy a gun. The court could easily say manufacturers of dangerous products (like guns) have a responsibility to ensure those products are not abused by requiring stringent background checks and other barriers of purchase, again like opioids and other prescriptions.
But whether or not people are going through background checks is a role of the government to determine. If you stab people with a filet knife, should we sue knife manufacturers?

And whether or not manufacturers can distribute their guns to certain areas.... guess what? That is also for the government to determine. They put magazine limits and other laws if they want to restrict sales. It isn’t up to the gun maker to do the government’s job.

That is just a shameless attempt at restricting gun rights by threatening manufacturers. (Meanwhile as you allude to, there is no right to drugs in the Constitution)

That's a pretty nonsensical position considering the U.S. is a nation built by immigrants. After slave labor helped make the country rich, immigrants made it thrive throughout the Industrial Revolution. The country has always been a melting pot with more immigration than anywhere else in the world since this country's inception. Do you not believe the U.S. is great and hasn't been great this whole time? Which country is better?

Even if you wanted to delude yourself into believing harmony could be achieved with one homogenous race and religion (despite how many times that's been disproven throughout history) we know white Christians in Vermont are much different than white Christians in Mississippi. There is absolutely, positively no one or right way to be American or define what America has "always been." So that's really just hyperbolic 'love it or leave it' nonsense.
Slave labor by no means made the country rich. It held the country back.

Slave labor is dreadful economically. And prior to the 1960s, we had an immigration system designed to acquire European immigrants, who were much more likely to assimilate into American culture.

Accepting mass, uninterrupted third world immigration has not been the historic norm, however.

As for the differences of Vermont Christian and those from Mississippi, I remember not 40 years ago, when the country was not like it was now, that we had 49 state landslide victories. Doesn’t happen anymore without a homogenous population. Happened with Reagan, happened before that with Nixon. Huge landslides for FDR as well.

Which crap is that? I think it's stupid to be hyper-partisan and cheer against a political party like it's a sports team. Liberals are not wrong about everything. An example of how stupid it is to devote yourself for/against one political party is to look at how much the GOP has changed just in the last 4 years alone. They've done a complete 180 where they used to be for free trade; now they're pro regulation and tariffs. All of their pro capitalism rhetoric went right out the window and most Republicans are too ignorant to have any clue what they're even cheering for.

Another example is how Republicans were firmly against increasing the deficit and would not increase spending at ALL when Obama was in office. When Trump was in office, they did another 180 and voted for the exact same things they voted against when Obama's administration proposed them. So really people just like hating shit for the sake of hating it and start yelling like monkeys. They don't even know what they're talking about half the time. I think it's pathetic to take sides like that as both parties tend to be right/wrong on various things.

It's interesting that Bernie and AOC have somehow come to define the Democrat party even though most Dems are more moderate. That's how Republicans aimed to win their political races in 2020: scaring people into thinking the Democrats are now bonafide socialists. It's not true but it worked like a charm so it was a good strategy. I'm personally not a fan of socialist politics myself. I am a fan of inclusion and non discrimination. Obviously it doesn't matter to any sane or decent human being which bathroom someone chooses to pee in, so I don't hate on Democrats for stuff like that.
I agree. I don’t cheer for political parties. I don’t even like the GOP. I’m speaking of the current, general beliefs of either a party’s voters or its leaders. I have beliefs, and I get behind candidates who share those. That, and it is fair to view them as sports teams when you see them voting on party lines for many major decisions like Supreme Court justices.

However, the Dems and I’d wager to say the vast majority of their voters select candidates that are too far gone socially to ever get my vote in the next few decades.

But I’ve been trying to use the term “liberal” more than Dem because I’m opposed to both parties, but I’m opposed to liberal ideology more so.

I thought the socialism smear was stupid. I watched a Hill video and they said that most Republicans were actually attacking based on corruption smears.

Also guess I’m indecent and insane because I don’t think grown men who think they are women should be in the same bathroom as little girls.
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@HistoryBuff
and one party has large support for hate speech, that would be the much bigger issue. 
Ah yes, my party having ideas you find controversial is definitely worse than your party wanting to jail and/or fine people for hurting peoples’ feelings with said opinions.... totally.

I think most people support common sense gun control. There is a difference of opinion of where that line should be, but i think most people can agree that having to pass a training course and a background check is reasonable. But the republican party tries to obstruct any kind of reform at all.
From what I understand, most laws proposed generally have some sort of provisions used for tracking guns. Since that sets up for taking guns down the line, whenever the Overton window shifts far enough, they oppose it, whether you buy that argument or not. Since D’s seem to idolize European countries, most of which have strict gun control, and based on NY and CA’s highly restrictive laws, I don’t think it is an insane assertion.

Most gun deaths are either homicide or suicide, so I doubt training courses would help much, although I’m not against them.

yeah, the republicans. They love those gun toting "proud boys" who try to attack and kill protesters
Lmao, I really hope this is satire. Either that or you’re disconnected from reality. Take your pick. I could go look up who is advertising bail funds for rioters. Oh yeah, the likely future Dem VP!

The fact that republicans hate a word they don't even understand is the much bigger issue.
Most of its supporters probably can’t define it, either.

none of these things are differences in basic values. Xenophobia isn't a value. both sides are against (or at least claim to be against, the republicans seem to cheer it on) violence in the streets.

They differ in certain policy goals. How much gun control is the right amount? No one thinks they should be handed out on the street to every person that comes along, virtually no one thinks all guns should be banned. So everyone agrees some amount of gun control is needed, it is just how much that is at question.

the issue is not that there are fundamental differences in basic values, it is that polarizing language is being used by both sides to try to play up this divide. The leadership of both parties want you think that the other side is the "other". They are unreasonable and want to destroy your way of life, etc. That way you have no choice but to support them, even though you likely don't agree with alot of the things that leader wants to do. It is a political tactic, and it is causing huge damage.
Both sides are against violence? Get back to me when Biden condemns Antifa, the easiest thing in the world to do.

Like I said to Zed, I’d like to think the only difference is rhetoric. However, if you compare each side’s vision of America, they seem incompatible to me.

Some issues like gun control are on a line. But there are lots of non-starters nowadays. Issues like DACA, ending “birthright citizenship”, among other issues have very little middle ground
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@Danielle
Lol @ liberal teachers telling white people to hate themselves. File that under "stupid shit Republicans whine about but never happens." Please note that being a drag queen is pretty rad (they have great comedy shows), being a makeup artist isn't a bad thing, and being gender confused is a sad reality that has nothing to do with being liberal -- they just don't shame you for it. Caitlyn Jenner is a conservative.
No, it actually happens a lot. It is most common in college. They blame every bad thing currently in black peoples’ lives on white people. White people are evil oppressors and we are somehow uniquely bad because of slavery, even though the North African slave trade enslaved more white people.

Just check out all of the white people who have raised black power fists, kiss/washed boots of black people, and groveled at them since the beginning of the year. It goes much deeper than that, but those are the most visible signs.

Do Democrats advocate keeping violent criminals in the US? I haven't heard of that; they're usually looking to protect Dreamers and such.
Biden said there will be at least a 100 day moratorium on deportations, no matter what they have done. California refuses to work with ICE to help deport illegal aliens.

I also think weapons should be easier to get under certain circumstances (i.e. tort reform that makes it possible to sue gun manufacturers for negligence the way you can sue the manufacturers of other dangerous products). But that of course would make it easier for everyone to get guns, including "degenerate" groups or more dangerous folks like terrorists and ANTIFA.
How are gun manufacturers negligent that they should be sued for?

And speaking of degenerates, what does "not living in a serious nation" mean? Sounds like some people hate America! If they don't like it, maybe they should leave?! Perhaps go to a less expensive country with a lower tax rate. The options are: Mexico, Thailand, Singapore, Poland, Kenya, Albania, Latvia, the Czech Republic, Ukraine and Hungary. Which one would you choose? I'd probs pick one of those cuz the only other options are way too liberal - Canada and New Zealand.
I wouldn’t mind living in Hungary or Poland.

But, I’d say the people who want to pervert what America has always been and was meant to be should leave first.

I agree rent control is pretty dumb, but it doesn't actually increase homelessness just because prices go up and rental vacancy goes down. I know that sounds counterintuitive but they've done research on it. Usually it protects the poorest and most vulnerable while fucking over the middle class, as many policies do. Womp womp.
I’m familiar with it being associated with dilapidated housing and housing shortages. I could be wrong. I’ll look into it.

Hey why do you hate liberals so much? Just curious.
Because of their crap, I will soon not be proud to be an American. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to become an anti-white version of Brazil.
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@Conway
No, it should have been in quotes lol 
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@zedvictor4
I don’t like the term “freedom of choice”. It is meant to sound good but it is way too broad.

Anti-murder laws infringe on your right to choose to murder people.

Anti-transgender bathroom choice laws are mainly to protect female children. That, and the term “bathroom” doesn’t appear in the Constitituion.

I appreciate your attempt at “Republicans and Democrats are the same....” but that is too idealistic, unfortunately.
Back in the day, I’m sure that applied in an America where both parties and their voters had the same general goals and values. That isn’t the case anymore.

It used to be that both parties agreed on many basic things like English should be mandatory, we should follow the Bill of Rights, patriotism is important because our country is great, etc.

Now, we have Spanish on our official documents, one party has large support for hate speech laws, one party supports strong gun control, one party’s leaders laud the ruffians in our streets burning American flags, and a large portion of Democrats aren’t even against “socialism” as opposed to “capitalism” anymore.

That isn’t to demonize Democrats-even though I’m 100% biased against them- that is to point out that, without the same basic values, you can’t really say that we’re all just the same and can come together for change. Not in an increasingly partisan and multicultural state. In an ethnically and religiously diverse state, all you can have is conflict.
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@Trent0405
Black judges can be racist too. Actually they have been proven to be racist. A 2010 study I read a while back took fictional robberies and put them in front of judges to determine sentences. So mock sentencing basically. The only thing that differed was the race of the robber, it found that even black judges sentenced black people longer. So this is the same fake robbery (judges think it's real obviously) but one variable changes, the race of the fake perpetrator, and the trend persists even with black judges
From what I am seeing, this study is deeply flawed and shouldn’t be used to make such sweeping assumptions.

For this experiment, they used 66 college students from a single college in Hawaii. That is a very small sample size with a relatively homogenous population in terms of geographic location, age, and occupation.

I doubt a college student from Hawaii is going to think the same as a rural Alabaman or a New York City banker, even if we were to assume that 66 students from one college are even representative of the rest of college students in their state.

Another issue that they didn’t elaborate much on was that they had them rate guilt from 0 to 100 on a scale. That is not how real cases work. The burden of proof for a felony (like all other criminal cases) is “beyond a reasonable doubt”. So even if the race changed the number from 40 to 60, that would still be an innocent ruling. It doesn’t prove widespread changing of rulings based simply on race.

Finally, earlier in the paper, it references a meta analysis (a study of many studies) that found little evidence of racism for convictions, stating:

“A 2005 meta-analysis conducted by Tara Mitchell and her colleagues followed up Sommers and Ellsworth's discussion by quantitatively testing race- effects on mock-jurors.8 3 Aggregating and analyzing verdict data from thirty- four studies and 7397 participants, and sentencing data from sixteen studies and 3141 participants, the researchers analyzed whether mock-jurors across these studies demonstrated racial bias in decision-making. The researchers found small but significant differences in race effects on both verdicts and sentences, indicating that mock jurors were biased in favor of defendants of their own race.8 4 However, this significant effect was quite small, and the statistical signi-
85 ficance disappeared if the experimenters eliminated certain types of studies”

This study that set out to try to prove racial bias admits that a meta-analysis found that, at the worst, there is a tiny amount of in-race bias (not anti-black bias) and, at best, there is no bias at all. I choose to trust the over 7k grouping of studies over this one with 66 participants
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@zedvictor4
Why did you tag oro? Lol

Plus, I am an absolute tyrant! I shall choose which bathrooms the gender confused get to defecate in! Muahahahahaha!
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@n8nrgmi
Sue’s young boy is a drag queen/gender-confused makeup artist who hates their evil oppressive White self because their liberal teacher taught them to be that way.

Sue’s husband got killed by an illegal alien since the liberal government refused to deport them and made the process of acquiring a good weapon for self-defense very complex.

Sue no longer lives in a serious nation because liberals made degeneracy and inclusion at all costs a religion that cannot be questioned.

Sue lost her job because all of the expensive regulations and taxes made her company uncompetitive.

Now Sue and her drag queen son live on the streets because rent control and regulations reduced the availability of housing.

Thanks, liberals!
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@Crocodile
  • Any slave attempting to run away and leave the colony (later, the state) received the death penalty.

I'm sure that was never enforced. It was so great on the plantation that they had no reason to run away in the first place!!!!
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@Death23
You're not suggesting that Uncle Ruckus (no relation) lied to us, are you?
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@HistoryBuff

packing the courts with right wing judges so they can make the courts swing the law to the right even though that is not what the people want. That is undermining democracy.
Ah, so electing right-wing senators and a right-wing president, whose combined job it is to elect Supreme Court justices is “undermining democracy”. Intriguing.

The republicans used political games to pack the courts with right wing judges. Now the democrats are thinking of doing the same. But in your mind the republicans are fine, but if the democrats do that, that's wrong. That is some hyper partisan bullshit
After decades of left-wing rulings on gay marriage and abortion and your judges legislating through the courts, I’d say it is about time for conservative rulings. If we’re being honest, it is only a 5-4 majority since Roberts cucks all of the time.

there is some twisted logic. Having everyone's votes count for the same amount is a "power grab". having rural people's votes count for way more than urban people's votes is totally fine though....

Two options: give rural voters a little bit of power or give them no voice at all. I’d choose to give them some. Their states are only worth like 3-8 votes while California is like 55.

If it was popular vote, who is going to actually represent the interests of people in states with 200k people? Nobody

lol just because someone disputes something, doesn't mean they are right. I can dispute that the moon exists, but that doesn't change that it is there. Biden won, that is extremely clear. Trump can dispute all he wants, he's an idiot.

I mean, I doubt the results will be overturned, but it is possible. Depends on if there was significant fraud and what routes are taken to remedy that. There are people coming forward and signing affidavits. I haven’t looked into them too much because I’m doubtful, but it is possible.

Also there is always the wildcard of faithless electors. Cenk for TYT in 2016 said they should vote against their state since Trump was “unfit”. Could see the same with Biden, since some days he can barely finish a sentence.

this says alot about the republican party. They recognize they do not represent the majority of americans. They know that they are attempting to force a minority of people's wishes on the majority, and they are ok with it. They actually enjoy it. Its a bit perverse.
I would say that the GOP is very representative of your average American. If you look at county-wide elections for president, the vast majority of them are red. It is just big cities that vote blue, so while they represent “more people” depending on the year, they are really only representing urbanites. While most “areas” don’t vote for them.

That happens now. The only states that get paid attention to are the swing states. Any state that is "safe" is ignored. All the system does is change which states get ignored.
Well the others are “ignored” during election season. But Trump held rallies in tons of safe red states during his presidency like Mississippi to meet the people there. And traveling to swing states is just all for election purposes.

If it was just a popular vote, rural America would probably get ignored while currently with the “undemocratic” Senate and electoral college, they have enough influence to matter in elections.

Policy-wise, I don’t think only swing states matter to the president in the way only urban interests would matter under your proposed system.

yes. California has more people than many countries.

California has about 40 million people. That is about 12% of the US's population. they have 55 of 538 electoral college votes. that is a bit over 10% of the electoral college vote.

Iowa has 3.15 million people. That is about  0.95% of the US population. They get 6 electoral college votes. That is about 0.11% of the electoral college.

So yes, California should have a bigger say in the electoral college than they do. A vote in california is worth less than a vote in Iowa.
California should have a bigger say and they do. But the way the country is set up, via states, popular vote isn’t a good system.

Each state has its own culture, distinct economy, environment, etc and it isn’t a good idea to bulldoze them all simply because they don’t have a massive population. Iowa could still flip either way and not change the chances of winning the presidency that much. If Democrats lost California? They couldn’t win at all.

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@MgtowDemon
Lmao, I did not expect to see this on the forum this morning.

I'd say that slavery conditions varied widely. Some house slaves were treated as well as if they were the slave owner's own child. Some field slaves were malnourished, beaten, and slept in overcrowded shacks.

Difficulty of work would also depend on the type of crop and if the owner was rich enough to purchase better equipment. 


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@Greyparrot
Degentrification sounds culturally enriching, you bigot.
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@Greyparrot
Or they force rent control to fix that problem for a lack of low-income housing!

And then all existing infrastructure deteriorates since there is no profit incentive to keep it clean and nobody is willing to spend all of that money that will take 10 years to recover the costs!

Yay! Housing shortages and garbage housing!
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@Greyparrot
Honestly, I have yet to hear one good argument for why "gentrification" is bad. When everything is cleaned up, is the "gig up"? Can't blame the neighborhood and red-lining anymore?
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@HistoryBuff
ok. so the republicans refused to allow a sitting president to pick a supreme court judge, which is not illegal, but extremely unusual and their reasons for doing it were lies. They then rammed through a supreme court judge like a month before losing an election. Also not illegal, but still pretty obviously playing games with the system. 

Some dems want to expand the court, which is not illegal.

So the republicans playing games with the courts to undermine democracy is totally fine with you. but if the democrats try to respond suddenly it is totally unacceptable. That is some hyper partisan bullshit. 

How were Republicans undermining democracy?

There is a pretty big difference between not voting on a justice and fundamentally changing the court.

the electoral college is an antiquated system which is designed to make some people's votes matter more than others. It is, by design, a discriminatory system. Even with that system, the dems won. If the dems want to get rid of the electoral college, why shouldn't they pursue that?

It is not an antiquated system. It gives rural voters a voice. But I'm sure that you'd just love to neglect "flyover America" and let it rot. You hate them because they don't vote for your insane socialist policies. Only the urban votes matter to you elitists, huh?

I suppose they could get rid of the electoral college if they felt like it and had the votes. It is just a really stupid idea and an obvious power grab.

they did win. both by millions of votes and by the electoral college. 

Still disputed, but probably. If you win through the electoral college, good on you. If you win the popular vote, literally couldn't care less.

In America, we have states, and allowing all areas of the US to matter electorally is important. I'd secede if I was in the Midwest and would be constantly taxed and neglected in Congress.

Meanwhile, California still has a huge voice under the current system even though their votes "matter less".

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@Greyparrot
Metro Detroit has full control on how to deal with local crime and local teacher's unions, so it's really hard to blame whitey.

No sir, it is Whitey's fault for leaving instead of fixing all of their problems, don't you know?
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@Greyparrot
What do you mean it is expensive? Detroit has self-segregated for years.

That's because of White flight, and I'm sure it was very expensive for those White families lol
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@Death23
Illegal aliens compete a lot with high school dropouts in the labor market. Rates for general labor aren't sufficient for a man to be marriageable right now.

Yeah, I noticed that a surprisingly small amount of Black men voted for Trump in 2016 after his tough positions on illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants are eroding wages in construction especially, which is what a lot of high-school-educated Blacks work in and are suffering from.

Other policy suggestion might be to reduce financial barriers to obtaining marketable job skills. Trade schools can allow people to obtain reasonably good blue collar incomes with minimal education cost in terms of time and money. Training for truck driving, handy man type work and the like perhaps should be subsidized. It's a lot more cost efficient than subsidizing the arts or bloated university budgets that study simply for the sake of academic interest rather than meaningfully improving lives. The student loan system is a joke, really. People get, effectively, a credit card to spend on education. They end up spending it on educations that don't give them good incomes, and then they can't pay back the loans. The winners are the schools. The losers are the students who wasted their time and are now deeply in debt, sometimes for life. The government ends up eating the losses.

I've heard that holding colleges responsible in some manner would make them more responsible with their spending and guiding kids towards useful careers. As of now, their only incentive is to get students to take classes.

Making them co-sign loans would make sure they are taking in students likely to succeed, would push these kids towards useful majors, or else they would get punished.
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@zedvictor4
How    Long   Is    a    Piece   of   String?

A piece of string has a pretty defined length.

But let us pretend that some group gets paid and has huge benefits awarded to them because of their "string measuring" status. Do they have a perverse incentive to say the string is longer than it is and that they will need a lot of time to finish measuring it?

Do they benefit by gaining power through lengthening the length of the string?

(Translation: they benefit with political power from being "victims" and they get a lot of preferential treatment from the government by saying they are oppressed. Seems like they would have a pretty strong incentive to hype up the "oppression" as a basis on which to gain more power).
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@Trent0405
Cool, and to address your question, yes, there is undeniably systemic sexism in the US against me. Actually, systemic sexism against men is stronger than systemic racism against black people.

Remember when I stated that black people got sentenced 20.4% longer relative to white people, well for men, they have to endure sentences which are 63% longer than their female counterparts.(I know my link is a 538 article but it summarizes a 2015 study from Michigan state university)

In short, I have always contended that both systemic sexism and racism exist in the courts.
So you don't believe that there are any other explanations for this than that it must be sexist? Most judges are male, so why do you think that they would be sexist against their own gender?

Additionally, this didn't break down the rulings based on the race of the judge giving the sentence. So, we don't know if Black judges gave preferential sentences to Black criminals and harsher sentences to Whites, and the White judges gave harsh sentences to Blacks and lighter sentences to Whites. We can't prove racial bias on the part of judges. Additionally, it didn't compare the same judge's sentencing based on White vs Black defendants. Maybe hard-on-crime judges are more prevalent in majority-Black areas?

Hundreds of factors go into sentencing: the type of weapon used, the type of drugs, if the attack was particularly cruel, if the attacker showed remorse in court, if the crime was done in a way as to try to avoid hurting people, etc. I think that the uniqueness of every case makes it very difficult to compare them on race, especially since I pointed out originally that different races have different cultures. They are going to go about crimes in different ways based on motivations and what they were exposed to.

I'd say that such broad studies can only be determined to be inconclusive and not evidence for or against racial bias.
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@Trent0405
Well I would like to go one point at a time to make sure we don't get gallop-y

It says in that report that women of all races got shorter sentences than White men. Do you think that our country suffers from systemic sexism as well?
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@Death23
I think that if anything has become obvious over the past few decades, it is that simply cutting people a check does nothing to increase their position in life.

It doesn't encourage smart spending and saving habits, it doesn't encourage them to invest in themselves to acquire new skills, and our unemployment system's check for "searching for employment" is a joke. 

We have given all poor people, disproportionately Black, everything they need to live: food, education, and housing. Outside of providing those opportunities, I don't think there is much more to be done. We blame the schools, but at some point underperforming groups need to look in the mirror: what does the home life look like, what kind of behavior does your subculture encourage, and what kinds of role models do you have?

Those are all problem areas with the Black community as I see it: over 70% born out of wedlock many of which end up being single-parent households with no male role model. A culture that glorifies gangsters. And the deification of drug addict career criminal, George Floyd, reflects that.

So really, what kinds of policies do you think would actually target them well? Because policies can't change cultures, and they can only do so much to resolve single parenthood.
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@MgtowDemon
Hey now, play nice. Death is a pretty cool dude.
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@Death23
Do you want me to paste the whole study?
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@Death23
I have access to Google Scholar for the study
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@Greyparrot
What's with the barbershop quartet? XD
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@Death23
The data suggests that ~42% of the observed difference between white and black infant mortality is being caused by racism. It's time for those babies to shut up and start taking responsibility!

I see... It appears George Wallace was right! "Segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!"

But I would be interested to see what other circumstances were at play. They say it is a "complicated question". They don't say if White babies are more likely to survive when cared for by Black doctors. There isn't any other breakdown by race to compare it to. Maybe the death rate is even higher under Asian doctors because they are more qualified and only take on emergency cases? I don't know.
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@MgtowDemon
There is no point. "Racism" is a product of having differing non-European groups involved with other racial groups. Even in their homelands (such as Kenya), Africans still complain of other Kenyans racially discriminating against them. In Singapore, Chinese have to be legally forbidden from spreading Chinese supremacist mantra, in order to maintain the peace.

Precisely. Multiculturalism brings on a ton of problems to little benefit. As you increase the perceived differences among people and there is any different in outcomes, there is going to be a scapegoat.

And when you bring people with different values, cultures, and languages to another country, you are much more likely to have wide disparities. Some cultures don't value delayed gratification, but Asians do a lot, which is obvious from their high savings rates. Delayed gratification is associated with success, so you are stuck with two options: blame people for doing something good that others don't do, or blame people for not making wiser decisions.

It's fascinating that in some leftist's minds they can house this complete contradiction: cultural differences should be celebrated but cultural differences don't matter. This isn't even to delve into the fact that some cultures are objectively abhorrent, such as some parts of the extreme Islamic world wherein women are stoned to death for being raped (for dishonoring the family), or in parts of Uganda where they believe witchcraft is a real thing https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-02/witchcraft-child-sacrifice-uganda-victims/11248026 . 

Yes, there doesn't seem to be an end for the degeneracy and awful decisions the government is willing to tolerate. Kind in mind that this issue is exacerbated by the tax-payer having to prop these irresponsible people up.
That is a really good point. They put so much weight on not "culturally appropriating" and how you aren't allowed to critique other peoples' cultures, yet they do then act like they have no consequences. Even speaking a different language can greatly affect your perception. They studied languages and determined that it is powerful in determining how you deal with abstract issues and shaping habitual thought (like perceptions of time). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010028501907480

Think of how damaging it must be for kids growing up in a household where "ebonics" is the norm. It is improper English, which will lead to worse school grades. Who knows what other cognitive effects might results from it?

Learned helplessness is a pathology.

The word I was thinking about the whole post. You teach people that things are hopeless and they stop trying. I would personally believe that if you are an authority figure and tell kids that no matter what they do, they will never succeed, they will be inclined to believe you.

If you say that until reparations, they will never be able to succeed, do you think they will even try until they get reparations? Most probably won't.

If anything, Africans and Hispanics receive, overall, favorable handouts from the government (for example, getting into universities with lower SAT scores through affirmative action) https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/12/17/affirmative-action/


It breaks down acceptance rate by MCAT and GPA by race.

An MCAT between 24-26 and GPA between 3.2-3.39, Asian acceptance is 6% and Black acceptance is 56%!

If diversity is our strength, why do they need to alter acceptance rates so blatantly? Why did California's Supreme Court lower Bar score requirements to diversify the law profession(supposedly because of COVID, but then why would it be permanent?)? This article found that the permanent 50 point deduction in score would only lower the racial disparity by 2.7% https://www.law.com/therecorder/2020/10/19/study-lower-bar-exam-cut-score-wont-solve-californias-attorney-diversity-problem/?slreturn=20201018201227

In the end, medical and legal malpractice will just hurt all of us. 

Thanks for the well-backed post, bruh.
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