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@Ramshutu
In general, and from what I can recall, your votes have usually been well within the voting policy standards. If there is a specific RFD you want me to look at, I could give some feedback to you in an unofficial capacity on how that RFD could've been better.
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Oh? If that was the case then Mike should be the inaccessible owner who lets the site devolve into chaos overridden by spam. The forums should be formatted exactly the same. The ban list should carry over. Airmax should be the mod. Etc. Etc. Etc.
That remark is not only gratuitous, but a deliberate strawman, as well you know.
Regardless, I wish you a happy Thanksgiving. TTYL.
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@drafterman
Who decided there should be continuity? The decision that DART should be DDO 2.0 seems to have been made unilaterally.
The very fact that the majority of the userbase here is from DDO made it only logical to provide continuity in standards until changes to those standards could be decided and moderation customized to the site.
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@drafterman
That's not quite an honest way of depicting the situation. We continued to implement standards of vote moderation that were used on DDO because these methods were tried and tested, and because they provided continuity. It was largely felt among vote moderation that there was a real obligation to continue to implement those practices until the community here overrode them, as it has now done. To say that we created the work for ourselves implies that we took actions designed to increase our workload beyond existing requirements, when really what we did was do what we saw was already required.And this, of course, is not an entirely honest way of depicting the situation. The majority of the work was work you created for yourself (which has been partially remedied).The only actual work a report entails is: reading the vote/comment in question and deciding if action needs to be taken. This is seconds, maybe 1-2 minutes of necessary work.
Moreover, the evaluation of votes can, itself, take up to 10 minutes depending on the difficulty of the case. There may be certain questions moderators have which require them to consult with other moderators, and there may be cases which are difficult in generally to evaluate. While the mode is about a minute, the average is probably in excess, at least for me, of 2 minutes. Each vote deserves thoughtful consideration.
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@1harderthanyouthink
"Trouble for the mods" is not something worth considering unless the change would end moderation. BSH signed up for this, Virtuoso signed up for this, Mike signed up for this. Unless they're going to quit if reporting becomes anonymous -- and unless they're irreplaceable -- who cares.
The problem with Bossy's statement is that it suggests that any amount of work is somehow okay to place on the mods' shoulders. The mods and Mike have a right to free time. I am certainly happy to do quite a lot of work, and I have. But it is prima facie unreasonable to require any mod--irrespective of who that mod is--to put in 40 hours of work on DART in addition to their IRL duties. That's basically what massive levels of intentional spam reporting does. I already put in around 30 hours regularly and that's fine, and I am willing to occasionally put in more, but not as a regular thing. So yeah, trouble for the mods should not be the primary argument against any useful policy or user right. But it's not a totally unreasonable argument either.
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@TheGreatSeal
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@Vaarka
I was tempted to make a gay joke, but instead I'll say this: "Why aren't you in the personal section?!"
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Who are the three people you admire most, living or dead? What three world leaders, living or dead, have done the best jobs leading their countries? Why Monarchism?
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@Tejretics
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@Tejretics
If I may, why are you going through this phase of revisiting views.
I'd be happy to debate some of these topics with you if that might help.
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Attention
Do not post in the DP. The DP is over.
The next living player to do so will be mod-killed.
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@RationalMadman
I was not saying anything about YOUR arguments, RM. I was only saying that I found the argument highly persuasive, and I found it highly persuasive before our debate.
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@Tejretics
Do you think gun rights deter violent crime? If not, why not? If yes, why do you think that is outweighed by gun-related deaths?
I don't think they deter crime. There are a bunch of reasons why this is the case, including that guns are often high-value merchandise that thieves and robbers want to steal (so a gun can attract criminals to your house or person), guns ownership and possession encourages crimes of passion and rash decision-making (people often shoot first, think later), and homicide rates (comparing Europe to N. America) show that lower rates of gun ownership correlate with fewer murders.
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@RationalMadman
Depends on the things...What makes you order your favourites how you do in things? What drives you to like them? Is it pure emotion or part reasoning or what?
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@Tejretics
(1) Why do you think rivers and forests have personhood?
If you look at my debate with RM over the environment, you'll see the eco-monism argument I make there. I found that incredibly persuasive. Plus, I should clarify that I mean legal personhood, like corporations.
I will say that once meat can be produced abuse-free in labs (like grown in a petri dish), it would probably be morally permissible to consume.
(2) I mean -- you'd be really hard-pressed to find dairy or eggs that didn't involve significant amounts of abuse. Their harvesting almost certainly harms the animals. Male chicks are routinely killed in egg farms; hens are locked up in cages, have their sensitive beaks chopped off, etc. Similar levels of abuse in the dairy industry.
I could concede all of that and still not find their consumption wrong on principle. I certainly think that ethical farming practices need to be enforced through laws.
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@David
What's your ideal man?
Physically: 6'1" or taller, washboard abs, broad shoulders, good biceps, deep but smooth voice, dark hair (maybe black hair with green eyes), tan, athletic thighs, and 6-8" where it counts. I'm not into super muscled guys; I don't want a bodybuilder physique. Something natural but fit.
In terms of other traits, I would prefer someone who is college-educated, emotionally available (lets me vent and supports me when I'm upset [is talkative]--that's a big one for me), kind, protective (but not weirdly so), willing to cope with my general laziness, dog-loving, better at math than me, willing to debate philosophy and politics without getting personal, puts up with flashes of anger/frustration, gets my sense of humor, wants kids, would be supportive if I ran for office, is in to cuddling and PDA, more organized than me, and is generally quite thoughtful and romantic. I am a sucker for romance, thoughtfulness, cuddling, and emotional availability/supportiveness. I also want someone who is dominant and assertive without being overbearing, controlling, dismissive of my views, or degrading.
Also, obviously, we'd need to be compatible in the bedroom too.
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@Swagnarok
Federal elected or Senate-confirmed office. Marry a great guy and have 5 kids without going crazy or getting divorced.
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@RationalMadman
Not necessarily in the context of moderation, but probably 1. Struggles and journeys may be the real lessons, but they are called "struggles" for a reason. Doing well is nice, but it's not as good as doing well and getting recognition for it. So, numero uno.
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@RationalMadman
I did not know Mike prior to becoming a mod and it means that I get to help/perform a service to a community that I care about, and that is valuable to me.
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@Tejretics
How so? Why? Did my answers help?I’m going through a “phase” of becoming more and more undecided about a lot of political issues.
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@RationalMadman
See the OP: "feel free to ask me anything as long as it's not about moderation."
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@Tejretics
(5) By a “living wage,” I assume you mean a federally-mandated minimum wage of $15/hour. If yes, how do you deal with the argument that a federally-mandated minimum wage would cause significant unemployment, especially since the US doesn’t have experience with minimum wages going that high? Even pro-minimum wage economists such as Alan Krueger, per my knowledge, wouldn’t go as far as $15/hour.
So: "Back in 2015, The Economist estimated that, given how rich the U.S. is and the pattern among other advanced economies in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, “one would expect America...to pay a minimum wage around $12 an hour." I'd be down for $12-15 for a living wage. I am just not sold on the idea that a $12-15 LW would cause large scale, long-term unemployment. If anything, it would boost consumer's lagging purchasing power, and could potentially energize certain sectors of the economy. Temporary subsidies might be needed to offset market shock, or the wage could be phased in. But once it's implemented, it should be indexed to inflation so that we don't have to go through this LW rigmarole again, and so there's market certainty. It should be automatically adjusted every three years based on that indexing.
(6) How would you respond to the argument that legalized prostitution would lead to increased human trafficking because (a) it would increase demand and (b) it would make it harder for law enforcement officials to catch human traffickers due to the difficulty in distinguishing between sex workers who consented to be sex workers and sex workers who are victims of trafficking?
The increase in demand is an obvious consequence of legalized prostitution. The question is whether human traffickers and unscrupulous brothel owners would be able to disguise their activities from law enforcement, because even with rising demand, if they aren't able to conceal their activities, the question is moot. There seem to me to be quite a few factors at play. First of all, prostitutes would more likely be willing to seek help if they did not have to face potential charges themselves. Second, government regulation of brothels would force brothels to submit to inspections, to file paperwork, and to be audited. These kinds of activities don't currently happen in brothels. Their presence increases the potential to catch malfeasance. Third, willing volunteers would likely reduce the demand for traffickers themselves. So yeah, the industry demand will go up, but the demand for traffickers may simply go down because people willing to do the job would come forward themselves. Finally, you could require all sex workers to be citizens, to reduce the risk of trafficking in foreigners.
There's also a sense that criminalizing prostitution actually makes it harder on victims of trafficking. Not only can they be trafficked, but once they get to their destination, they can be arrested for prostituting themselves. That seems like a double-wrong. Are we really okay with that? Sex trafficking is gonna happen, but at least with legalization, sex workers aren't hit with two wrongs...
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@Tejretics
(3) I’ve seen you argue before for animal rights using the “argument from marginal cases.” Do you think eating meat, dairy, or eggs is morally justified? Would you vote for a candidate who is fantastic on animal welfare but terrible on the economy and social justice? “No” to the first question and “yes” to the second (given the extent of abuse animals face) seem like the logical extension of the “argument from marginal cases,” given that I imagine that’s what most people would do if severely mentally enfeebled individuals or infants were treated in similar ways.
I am starting to come around to the notion that eating meat is probably immoral, but that doesn't mean I plan to stop (tu quoque, I guess). I am even starting to embrace positions like personhood for rivers and forests. Dairy and eggs are separate issues--I don't think that milk and egg consumption (much like the use of wool in coats or eating honey) is immoral to the extent that their harvesting does not harm the animals involved and to the extent that the eggs are sterile or non-viable.
I would probably prioritize the economy and social justice. While I believe the argument from marginal cases is viable, I don't think it definitively establishes that the interests of humans possessing meaningful agency do not outweigh the interests of animals. So, I would prioritize those humans' welfare, but I would still factor animal rights issues into my vote.
(4) What gun control laws do you support? Do you believe that gun rights deter crime? If no, why not? If yes, why do you still support significant gun control measures?
I'd be down for just banning private ownership of guns, period (though I would allow state-owned gun clubs to lease guns for short durations and only for certain purposes). But, if that weren't an option, it would be easier to tell you what I would permit: owning a rifle or shot gun capable of firing no more than 6 shots before needing to be reloaded. The firearms would have to be stored separately from the ammunition, and both the ammunition and the firearms would need to be stored in locked compartments. Gunowners would need to submit to three random inspections a year to verify that they are storing the firearms correctly. Gunowners would need to pass, once every five years, a gun safety and use assessment. Every gunowner would need to pass a background check and a mental health check administered by a panel of psychiatrists. Every ten years the background check and mental health check would need to be repeated.
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@Tejretics
Why do you prefer a negative income tax to a guaranteed minimum income with work requirements, an unconditional minimum income that is means-tested, a universal basic income, and a safety net comprised of giving people access to specific services/vouchers for those services (e.g., free healthcare, free education, food stamps)?
I'd love to debate someone on this, actually. But, in general, a basic income doesn't focus its benefits among the most needy in the way that an NIT does. I would give NIT benefits to those without income as well, as long as they declared so to the IRS. I also don't like work requirements in general, because (a) someone's life and health should not be taken away because a person is lazy and (b) they are tokenistic in the sense that they are included primarily to appease certain political groups without regard to whether the programs actually foster industriousness (is having a job meaningful if you don't do it well?). And then there's always (c): what if you're laid off or its a recession and you can't get a job?
Why do you prefer single-payer healthcare to Hillary Clinton’s plans to expand Obamacare or a means-tested healthcare program, or even an entirely cash-based system of health services with subsidies? How do you deal with the argument that the costs of single-payer healthcare would be better spent on welfare reform and that limited political capital for Democrats means they should prioritize spending that money on welfare?
Healthcare is a fundamental right, IMO, just like education or due process, for example. We shouldn't make people pay (beyond taxes) to exercise their fundamental rights--that seems like a kind of unacceptable imposition. I shouldn't have to fork out $10,000 in order to go to high school or to have a trial by jury. So why should I have to fork that out in order to receive healthcare? So long as we regard healthcare as a fundamental right, ought it not be free? If "yes" is the answer to that question, means-testing goes out the window, because healthcare ought to be free for everyone, since everyone can claim it as a fundamental right.
The latter portion of your question is a bit more complicated, because I think--essentially--the welfare system should be overhauled. We should basically have: single-payer; guaranteed food security; guaranteed housing; a small tax credit for parents, the aged, and the disabled; a living wage; and an NIT. All other programs should be scrapped (though I am open to reconsidering that on a program-by-program basis). I think, practically, single-payer is a kind of welfare reform, and so many of the necessary reforms can be packaged as one thing more or less, to maximize political capital.
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Attention
Given that Thanksgiving is this Thursday, the NP and the next DP will be 24 hours longer than usual to accommodate changes in schedules during the holiday period. Please give thanks for this extra time by being engaged and active in the game moving forward. Enjoy the holiday!
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Final Tally
Wylted (4/5) - DPR, Budda, Lunatic, Supa
Lunatic (1/5) - Wylted
Results
The DP ended in a no-lynch!
The DP is over. Stop posting.
Submit night actions.
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@drafterman
The point where you try to force me to insult you is the point where this conversation ends.
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I just loved Mike's choice of quote in the notification. Let's all just stop going cuckoo for coco-puffs and appreciate the glory of that choice.
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@drafterman
I certainly didn't stop at that moment or in that day.
As far as I can reckon, you did. No additional mass-reports came in to our report feed once it was made clear to you that reports were not anonymous.
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@drafterman
Your mass-reporting of votes ceased in immediate temporal proximity to your being identified as the culprit. I see no other reasonable explanation for the change in your activity.
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@Castin
I would argue that Drafter only chose to stop because he was identified as the culprit.
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Vote Count
Wylted (4/5) - DPR, Budda, Wylted, Lunatic
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This thread is closed for questions. Thanks to everyone who participated :)
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I will /in if need be, but mod duties and school make my activity level questionable. That said, I'm usually online every day, so...
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@Wylted
I totally disagree with that analysis, but I'm not going to really debate it here.
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Like Hallowee, friday the 13th, nightmare on elmstreet etc.
I don't watch horror movies. Ever...
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