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@Elminster
drafter was there because drafter typically plays more assertive than that, and his theory is let town kill each other.
I intentionally kept Drafter out of my scum piles because I knew (1) I could flip on any read if he was alive DP4 --- and I was fairly confident he would be, though wasn't sure; and (2) I saw scum reading him as potentially derailing my other project with Warren, whose lynch I was primarily interested in; given that in order for the game to be balanced he had to be a scum-sided role.
The post you quoted me on was the lynch order I wanted until supa set redirector and then that made me think pie helped him come up with miller.
Interesting. I didn't pick up on that, and I doubt I would have because I wasn't scrutinizing his posts like I was the posts of others (Warren, Drafter, Whiteflame and Oro) once Chris was lynched. I hard town-read Supa before the end of DP1 and didn't really need to pay much more attention to him after that.
Same with Pie. Behaviorally, because I town-read Supa and I also town-read pie, the only extent to which I was paying attention to what he did was the extent to which it related to me directly, lynching Warren, or getting him off the idiot wagon that formed DP2 --- but once he was on the idiot wagon, I was pretty sure that no matter how wrong his reads were (or his anticipated death at the end of multiple day phases, when at no point during that time would he have been the conceivable night target for even a minimally adequate scum team) he was as good as town confirmed.
Knowing how Supa plays, I saw everything he did as consistent with his town meta. Not consistent with his scum meta.
I am less familiar with Pie. But I could not see scum motives for what he was doing. At any point. Though, again, I don't remember anything that made me think pie helped supa come up with a claim, but mainly because I was pretty sure there was no way supa was fake claiming.
So was backing off christ at the end but in my notes I had it split to both those theories. So when chris died, it would have been theory 1 lynch order
I backed off of Chris because I needed to think about what he said, too, and I didn't want to rush it when I thought we had more time. Turns out he slipped in a way that entailed the conclusion. Your theory 1 group I understand, though I still do not understand putting me over Warren, which Whiteflame did too. My thought on why whiteflame did that was because I was the easier of the two to sort out. Was there a distinction in your DP1 thoughts as to the relative probability that either warren or I were scum? Did you think I was more likely to be scum than him? Why, if so?
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@Elminster
He woudnt fake claim the wording of redirector lolI thought he just paraphrased redirector as miller and forgot it was there
This is one of the reasons I place more weight on behavior than claims, even to the point that I will throw an un-CC'd cop into the scum pile when he's doing things that objectively advance scum interests. Cop, after all, has been a fake claim given to mafia in games and there are a whole bunch of ways to beadcrumb that without being locked in. Claims matter, but the behavioral read on Supa was town from the get-go. So I don't understand the Supa scum read.
Fine though having me in the POE. Did you ever actually scum read me for other reasons?
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@Elminster
I told luna my theoryit was eitherdrafterchriscoalwarrenorpiesupacoaldrafter
Why, despite the fact that I was town, did you have me in both of your scum piles?
Why, even though drafter was scum, did you scum read him?
Warren I can see in the first group. Same with Chris, based on play.
At no point did pie or supa ever do anything that suggested they were scum to me.
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@Speedrace
But also, like I genuinely noticed Whiteflame play differently
Explain
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@Lunatic
This website you are lucky to get even 12 players. Even 11 is kind of a stretch these days. Your used to Debate.org's massive games lol
Well I've got it, if it could ever be filled.
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@Lunatic
The whole player base was basically ousted dp1 minuse two or three people, and mafia were largely rooted out to POE over behavior. I may think about getting back into pressing mass claims after seeing how this went, combined with the last few live mafia games where similar things happened. I know you'd disagree, but just saying, results are results haha
There will be no mass claims ;)
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@Lunatic
Well he called out the whole scum team in post 607... But he never really followed through with it and backed off of Chris extremely easily. That said I was still impressed with his post calling them out lol.
Yes, but he also called out everyone else. But again, the "fuckery" to which I referred around the end of DP1 seemed like he was trying to dodge the NK. Saying the things he needed to say to keep scum from killing him.
Would have been interesting to see. I feel like he and I would have butted heads, though, and probably harder than I did with whiteflame.
The whiteflame wagon, I'll agree was a bit hard to watch.
Yes. I was very unhappy when I logged on and saw that. But later, after I reflected on the situation, I was less motivated to blood-eagle him.
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@ILikePie5
Would’ve been a million times harder haha
I don't know. If I correctly interpreted the purpose of his posts, around the end of DP1, he was trying to throw up smoke to avoid the NK. That's what it looked to me like at least, but maybe those were genuine reads. I don't play with him enough in the forums to be able to tell.
I get the feeling if they were genuine, he and I would have butted heads. I am a very aggressive player. I'm also not exactly the most tolerant of tricks and games like Mikal plays and I don't think he takes kindly to my domineering playstyle either.
I play mafia the way Christian Grey has sex, for the most part.
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@Lunatic
I have a 16-20 person game you might like to run.
Movie character themed.
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@Lunatic
Mikal wanted his in depth justification paraphrased and speed was technically giving it to him, but it like the worst communicable way possible lol. However I could understand the frustration on both of their parts at the same time
I have to wonder how, if Mikal hadn't been killed, the game would have played out.
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This was very satisfying.
Drafter's claim was solid, as a fake claim.
Warren really had no other options but to do what he did. It was good play.
Chris, hopefully I didn't scare you off. Not bad play from you either, by any measure.
Pie, I am mildly amused by your activity here.
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@ILikePie5
Speed’s dead so I’ll do the honors:VTL Drafter
I meant you, since you're online.
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@ILikePie5
If this is the case tomorrow it will be 4-1. Lynch Coal tomorrow and then Oro.
You really aren't paying attention, are you?
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@whiteflame
We're at L-1, and frankly I'm comfortable with speed hammering him.
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In case anyone is wondering why I am VTLing Drafter after having town-read him earlier . . .
But, don't worry, you don't need to lynch me, I'm going to die anyway on N3.I'm Roy Batty from Blade Runner. Though I'm presented as the villain, I'm just fighting for the right to survive. Because of my enhanced strength and durability, I'm vigilante and bulletproof, but since I'm programmed to die (and at the end of my life) I will die at the end of NP3. I've confirmed that I still get my action that night.
And yet here we are, in DP4, with him alive.
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@Speedrace
He's probably judas, in which case that's false
Explain that to me....
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@Speedrace
We should theoretically be able to cut our scum pile in half
Seems to me like Warren is the last remaining scum.
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@Vader
The thing is about WF is, yes, he did handle the situation poorly, but I am an un CC'd Miller and he is an un CC'd cop. If you are town reading me as the Miller, it would be the most viable option to believe a cop where to exist. Plus, we clearly see scum had two roles trying to diverge a cop result. Depsite his holding out and soft claims then refusing to hard claim, the fact of the matter is scum was not given fake claims according to DP1, which means whiteflame was taking a massive risk and gambit by claiming the cop. If whiteflame is scum, the trigger is pointed to my head. But again, scum is not informed of fake claims according to the DP1 OP, which means the probability of pulling such a risky gambit with NO INFORMATION about the game. I think the odds of that are extremely low. In conclusion, whiteflame handled the claim poorly, but looking at mechanics and probability, it would be extremely unlikely that he would get away with this. I believe he should be in the town pile
DP is over, kiddo. Can't post until tomorrow.
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@ILikePie5
Lemme do the math real quickRight it’s probably 7-2If Warren is town, after tonight it will be 5-2Tomorrow we will be forced to no lynch so we can confirm Drafter as telling the truth bringing the game to LYLO cause if we lynch and Drafter is telling the truth, we lose.So after the no lynch it will be 3-2I probably die tonight and WF probably dies tomorrow night. Warren will die tonight leaving 5 peopleSpeedSupaOroGPCoalAssuming Oro was telling the truth, which he probably is because Motivator has been town in the past 2-3 games he’s had them, it leaves:SpeedSupaGPCoalLunatic hasn’t done a fully role madness game with zero vanillas as far back as I have looked. There’s always at least one vanilla, so that probably means Speed is town leaving:SupaGPCoalFrom that list id lynch Coal,GP, Supa in that order. If Supa is scum kudos to him for getting away with Miller in a Lunatic game cause he uses Miller’s all the time.
This is the stupidest post in a mafia game I have ever seen.
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Update:
I have since learned that, hypothetically, if someone were immune to being lynched, since use of my role counts as a lynch, executing a lynchproof would end the DP.
TUF did not, however, confirm that Warren or anyone else holds such a role --- despite my best efforts. lol
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@ILikePie5
Sméagol?
You didn't read The Hobbit, I assume?
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@Speedrace
I have since learned that TUF is counting executions as a "lynch" for the purpose of my role, based on the fact that a wagon being at a certain point is the precondition for my ability to execute.
Figures.
So I can execute Warren, but he'll live if he is telling the truth that he is a 1x lynchproof. No word yet on what if anything happens relative to ending the DP if I do that, though.
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@Lunatic
Does an execution count as a lynch, or is that a different kind of kill?
The way I understand my role PM, they are not the same thing. A lynch is something that requires town cooperation whereas an execution DOES NOT COUNT as an alternative form of lynch, but instead something that can only happen if the wagon reaches a certain point.
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Coal- 4/5- Whiteflame, iLikePie5, Drafterman, oromagiNot Voting: supadudz, greyparrot, Coal, Speedrace, warren
Seriously. What the fuck even was that. It's a damn work day and you all know what I do. You also know I am not responding to social shit during that time. I've been at work all day and then you put this shit at my doorstep?
I was angry earlier. Murderously angry, at this idiot wagon and everyone on it. Like rip whiteflame's spinal column out and beat him to death with it (metaphorically) angry. But, in reflection I remember I did that to Max one time (start a wagon on him that puts him at L-1 during the work day) by accident. So I am less angry now.
Town:
Pie is town, despite his DP2 conduct (for which I might strangle him, see DP2-52). I started the town-focus on Chris. Pie follows on Chris, which he would not have done as scum (DP1-612). He jumped on the idiot wagon, but then got off once Warren stated the obvious (DP2-83).
Speed is town (DP1-616). Despite Whiteflame at DP1-614 trying to misdirect from Chris to Oro, Speed correctly stays on Chris. Correctly notes the risk created by the idiot wagon (DP2-89).
Drafter is town, and claims a role with a level of detail far too specific to be a fake claim, (DP1-618 ("I will die at the end of NP3. I've confirmed that I still get my action that night.")), while avoids misuse of a power role that may have an anti-town effect (DP1-698).
Oro is probably town, claimed a role he breadcrumbed more or less correctly, which he breadcrumbed at the risk of being counterclaimed (DP1-683).
Speed is town, for stating the obvious after I started the wagon on Chris. (DP1-713 ("Lynching Oro is stupid because he can confirm himself. Everyone should get off of Oro and go to Chris.")).
Supa is town. DP1-716 never happens is Supa is scum. He was already in my town pile. Did not join the idiot wagon.
Lean Town/Null:
Whiteflame is lean town/null. Whiteflame pushes Oro (DP1-614), which was objectively stupid at 614 unless he was scum knowing Oro is town; while walking the line on Chris ("I see some reason to sus MC and Oro. Not so convinced regarding Draft."). But he did sort himself out, to his credit, but only after Speed said what everyone should have been thinking (DP1-714).
Whiteflame breadcrumbed the cop role poorly --- by failing entirely to do it at all and appease Mikal, who was foaming at the mouth --- and TUF's meta is oriented to make cop-results inherently suspect. Even still, he is uncounterclaimed and purports to confirm Oro. This may be useful, especially if he is truthfully indicating that he investigated twice.
Whiteflame can be scum even if Oro is town, however, because Oro motivated Whiteflame. If Whiteflame didn't have an explanation for what he did despite having motivated, he would obviously have been lynched. Even still, his DP2-36 post was stupid:
As for the remainder of us, I can't say we've confirmed anything about Draft, though he's scheduled to die during NP3, so at least we know when he should be gone. I have at least a slight town read on Supa and GP. That just leaves Coal, Speed and Warren, and in this case, I'll lean on Coal to get his claim.
This garbage was the start of the idiot wagon that put me at L-1, that he didn't get off of until DP2-92.
Whiteflame has me first, despite the fact that I am the only reason anyone even paid attention to the DP1-lynched scum, Chris. Is he capable of such a big-brain (to use Mikal's phrase) move? Perhaps he thought he could make the argument that I was going to bus, but if so, that would be a poor argument to make given the circumstances under which anyone even started to focus on Chris. No one was even paying attention to him. He was lurking. Then he slipped, later on, after a dubious character claim.
But that's what it felt like Whiteflame was doing here, in addition to power-role fishing. I didn't character claim DP1 which by the conspicuousness of my non-claiming implied I had something or was scum. From his perspective based on what he thought was the POE, maybe he thought the costs justified the benefits. Still, he should have been pushing Warren for the same --- and he didn't --- which was a mistake so glaring that Warren noted moments later.
My instinct is to read malicious intent into actions that have bad results, and Whiteflame started a lynch that put me at L-1. I skimmed the DP earlier and was ready to rip out his spinal column and beat him to death with it (metaphorically), but I have since reflected. It is easier to believe he just screwed up the reads (like he screwed up his claim) than to think he has some grand design in all of these ostensible missteps.
But isn't it interesting how Warren was the first to point it out? (DP2-37). Whiteflame claims "I don’t sus him, but I want a claim." (DP2-39). So I assume from his perspective he thought it would be easier to rule me out and then focus on Warren. Not how I would have handled it, but I also wouldn't have handled his claim in the way he did either --- but I probably would have investigated Mikal and I likely could see myself, if motivated, investigating Oro. So he has that going for him.
Potential Scum:
Warren is in the POE, having remained silent through almost 29 pages of content (DP1-699). But he did hammer Chris, who was scum. Though Chris was a foregone conclusion by then. He states the obvious at DP2-77, but seems like he could be trying to buddy with me. Not a bad scum strategy given he's the obvious POE, but kind of transparent.
I need clarification on whether if I kill Warren, who claims to be the 1x lynchproof, he dies. Does my "execution" count as a "lynch"?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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@warren42
Why the fuck would we lynch me and shoot me rather than just shoot me. This is so moronic and I can't think of how to dumb it down any more than that
Because a viable POE is you and drafter.
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@ILikePie5
Why are you being uncooperative?
Because you're not paying attention and it's irritating to a degree I am not sure you have the ability to understand. In addition, you are being being obstinate, irritating, and you jumped on a wagon that almost got me mislynched because a so called cop went power-role fishing; despite:
Mikal, at 601:
I think from a town poe it's safe to assumeMe and WF - not scum togetherMe and Speed - not scum togetherPie and Speed - not scum togetherPie and Oro - not scum togetherYYW and Chris - not scum togetherIf I were picking it would probably be between drafter, Chris, and warren because I feel like scum would just let town rip each other apart.My town pile currently isWFSupa
So I think Chris's flip helps give us a poe with him as well. I'm surprised he really hasn't pressured drafter for backseating but goes after chris who is a much easier target.To me drafter sticks out more than ChrisHe's usually more vocal about what he thinks and he's just been very agreeable with what people are assuming about the theme and not engaging as much as he normally does.
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@ILikePie5
I have given more than sufficient information for my claim and unless you can provide me with a competent reason why I should provide more, focus your efforts on more productive things.
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@ILikePie5
Oh and we were voting you for your full claim, not cause we want to lynch you, although now that I think about it you’re a good option as well
Maybe you were. You weren't the one at L-1.
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@whiteflame
You wouldn't be the first person who bussed a scum partner by being the first one on a lynch. Speed did that two games ago.Also, if you think I'm scum, then you haven't taken much time to consider what everyone else has clearly realized: MC's flip shows that there must be a cop in this game, and I wasn't CC'd. Pie copped innocent, and there's good reason to believe that Oro motivated my second investigation. The fact that we didn't immediately hop on the lynch of MC, but became parties to it later, doesn't mean that we're scum.
No, I haven't had time to consider anything given that I am in the process of working on a brief and then log on to find that in my absence, you lead a wagon to L-1 against me under circumstances that belie an intent to fish for unclaimed power-roles. If you fail to see why you would be the No. 1 person I would be not only suspicious of but willing to kill --- precisely after I directed the town to killing scum on DP1 --- when you point to ME BEFORE ANYONE ELSE . . . your claim DP1 is the only thing keeping me from doing everything to kill you.
It defies comprehension why you would claim when your results are worthless. Mikal is dead. Granted, you let the cat out of the bag when you failed to pacify Mikal yesterday; and perhaps that was you working your way to the cop-fake claim. After all, your movie is a bit different than the others, is it not? Given TUF's anti-cop meta, all would do well to take you with a grain of salt.
In the mean-time, if you are a cop, told the truth yesterday and in fact are telling the truth now; there were more pro-town ways to handle.
I am Thanos, from the Avengers. I am not only an antagonist; I am the ultimate antagonist. My Malthusian philosophy of reducing the population was oriented towards problem-solving throughout the universe just with a "snap" of my fingers. Blah blah blah .... stuff about Endgame and Thor being fat.
I am therefore the executioner. I can "snap" my fingers and execute according to the conditions I already said and win with the town.
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@ILikePie5
I have not read through the whole DP and will further respond to your activity later this evening.
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@Speedrace
Whiteflame is the cop
Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. TUF has a thing about cops not being trustworthy.
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@Speedrace
Last time we had an executioner, it was scum
And no doubt as scum on DP1 I would directly lead the town to lynch my scum mate?
Your observation is noted, but irrelevant.
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@ILikePie5
You’re not going to be the lynch today. We just need your role character and justification
The fact that you sheeped whiteflame who is obviously baiting a power role claim, which was the sole purpose of his "leaning" on me is a reflection of your inability to correctly perceive intentions.
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Remining scum is in this pile:
Whiteflame, iLikePie5, Drafterman, oromagi
The fact that three tonwies jumped on this wagon after I did everything within reason to get the town focused on Chris is beyond insane.
I'm going to kill someone in this pile today as soon as they are at 3/5.
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@whiteflame
I not only started the lynch on Chris, I specifically did so for the purpose of getting the lynch off of a townie, as plainly demonstrated by the DP.
I am working right now, and will deal with this when I can tonight.
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@oromagi
My character comes from a series that I do not have extensive familiarity with, because I am not a fan and have not seen the movie(s) in which this character is the primary antagonist. Though I have seen some movies within the universe, my preference has always been for a different universe.
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I don't remember How The Grinch Stole Christmas.
I don't think the Grinch is a protagonist.
I also am not sure I buy that claim.
I mistyped earlier.
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@ILikePie5
I’m willing to lynch Chris or Oro because they both claim they’re protagonists.
Chris, yes.
Oro, no. Johnny Lawrence is the antagonist in Karate Kid, not the protagonist. I have seen every one of those movies and Cobra Kai.
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@MisterChris
You claim (502):
But really I'd say I'm not lurking.... I've been posting pretty consistently today I'd say.
What have you done to move the ball forward?
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@Elminster
You can reflect later. For the moment, put your vote on Chris.
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@MisterChris
Don't wanna give too much else. We've done a good enough job making town vulnerable this day phase already.
Would you rather claim or die?
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@MisterChris
The fact that you're from a move is lovely. I am also from a movie. Most of us are from a movie.
What is your character?
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@MisterChris
The fact that you were engaged in a debate on this site is noted. It doesn't change anything about what I said, though.
Let's stay focused and then we maybe can further assess what to do next.
What is your character?
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