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coal

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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@ILikePie5
Do you plan on saying whether you’re from a movie or tv show after Chris does?
I don't have a problem disclosing whether my character appears in a movie or a TV show, though I fail to see any utility in doing so.  No facts so far suggest that the TV/movie distinction matters. 
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@Elminster
Let me read back on Chris and I may join you. 
Provide me with a status update.  Have you since reviewed the thread, and reached the conclusion that Chris has been lurking?  

Have you further read my response (487) to his most intriguing post (461)?  

From this exercise, have you concluded that you should be pressuring Chris? 

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@oromagi
Are you going to continue to pursue the futile speed lynch, or are you willing to do something productive like pressure Chris? 
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@Greyparrot
Whats the justification for killing Chris?
We aren't lynching Chris, yet.  Yet.  Though that time may come.

For the moment, a character claim will suffice. 

I should have specified that there has been enough ROLE claiming in my prior post (487). 

There is no reason why Chris would be disinclined to character claim at the moment.  Or at least a soft claim of his character. 
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@ILikePie5
Why Chris over Warren? Warren has been 10x more inactive than Chris.
Let's not try to walk and chew gum at the same time for the moment.  Read over the posts I have written that mention Chris.  That should clear things up. 

Warren's time may come.  But for the moment, it's Chris's time in the sun.  
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
Player - [Character] / [Role] (link to post)

  1. oromagi - [Presumably Jonny] ("My show is Karate Kid/Cobra Kai") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241261)
  2. elminster - Wicked Witch of the West / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241959) (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241958) 
  3. mistercrhis
  4. supadudz - Neagan / Miller (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241170) 
  5. greyparrot - Smeagol / Hider (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241213) 
  6. drafterman - ("I'm from a movie. If I say the movie it'll be obvious who I am. But I am a "villain") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241242)
  7. coal
  8. speedrace - Hyenas from Lion King / Vanilla (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241532) (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241730) 
  9. whiteflame - ("I’m from Police Academy. Fill in the blanks. Thanks for helping scum, guys!") / [obvs] - (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241896) 
  10. warren42 - ("My character is from Game of Thrones") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592-inverse-reality-day-phase-1?page=2) 
  11. ilikepie5 - Magneto / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241345) 
Unvote.

With town so vulnerable, we've got to think about this more carefully now. 

Pie's point about Speed claiming before we knew the split got me to look back, and Speed hinted literally within the first 10 mins of the DP about his role being multiple people... 

It's not beyond Speed to fake claim multiple people as scum. But what I think IS beyond him is soft claiming multiple people within the first 10 mins of DP1, therefore limiting your options severely. 

This was just as true at 461 as it was when you initially VTL'd speed, so nothing changed objectively between then and now.  Or if it has, you haven't pointed it out.   Looks to me like you're getting cold feet about being on a wagon.  

This post also suggests (1) distance between you and the "town";  (2) that you're not confident about the theme because you don't know what to make of Speed and Grayparrot's claim; and (3)  that you're trying to lay some foundation for wanting to avoid claiming this phase because you're afraid you'll claim outside the theme. 

I agree there's been enough claiming, but the intentions behind your comments here do not suggest motivations arising from an uninformed perspective. 


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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@ILikePie5
Vote for MisterChris.
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@Elminster
Speed is not the lynch today.  There is plenty of time, and the "case" for speed has been unhelpful.  

We should pressure MisterChris, who has been lurking.  You know as well as I do what scum do DP1, which is hide in the background while town tries to convince other town to lynch town.  

The signal to noise ratio so far in this day phase is higher than it needs to be. 
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@drafterman
Are you still pursuing the speed lynch, or can we move onto something productive? 
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If I wasn't reasonably confident Pie is telling the truth about his claim, I'd be pushing his lynch right now based on behavior.

Right now, MisterChris is who I want to hear more from.

He has been hiding in the shadows.  It's time to step into the light. 

VOTE: MisterChris
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@Elminster
So you're the wicked witch of the west? 
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@Elminster
I assume the mandalorian is in this game. 

What is your universe?
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@whiteflame
Well, I anticipate being entirely useless now, so I think I’ll just let whatever is going to play out go ahead. If Elm can’t get off the “lynch WF” train after that claim, then nothing would have convinced him, and I think that speaks to my own suspicions of him.

Just note, guys, that he clearly wanted more claims. Pie might have just jumped on the bandwagon, but Elm led it. If Speed gets lynched and he flips town, Elm should be next.


There is a non-trivial possibility you would have been flavored or otherwise unreliable.  TUF has this thing where he doesn't think the cop's result should be automatically trusted, so he does things like that.

That being said, the way you handled your claim is curious; though no one else is stepping forward and claiming cop, so as far as I'm concerned you're un-CC'd.  

I would have probably just said "one of the Eddie Murphy movies" or something like that to keep the door open, but give Mikal enough so he stops foaming at the mouth.  
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@Elminster
Are you the Mandalorian? 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
Player - [Character] / [Role] (link to post)

  1. oromagi - [Presumably Jonny] ("My show is Karate Kid/Cobra Kai") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241261)
  2. elminster
  3. mistercrhis
  4. supadudz - Neagan / Miller (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241170) 
  5. greyparrot - Smeagol / Hider (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241213) 
  6. drafterman - ("I'm from a movie. If I say the movie it'll be obvious who I am. But I am a "villain") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241242)
  7. coal
  8. speedrace - Hyenas from Lion King / Vanilla (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241532) (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241730) 
  9. whiteflame - ("I’m from Police Academy. Fill in the blanks. Thanks for helping scum, guys!") / [obvs] - (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241896) 
  10. warren42 - ("My character is from Game of Thrones") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592-inverse-reality-day-phase-1?page=2) 
  11. ilikepie5 - Magneto / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241345) 

Calling this now 

You are simba , took the kingdom away from scar and blah blah. What an asshole. 
A curious way to sum-read Speed. 


Speed's claim doesn't fit with the "bad guys where were right/justification" theme, but then again we don't know that's the actual theme, it's just what we've deduced with the available information.
I agree, if that's the theme --- and it very well may be.  My character is consistent with that being the theme.  The problem is that Grayparrot's Smeagol claim breaks that theory, unless Smeagol was a fake, but the circumstances of how Parrot made that claim do not suggest to me that he was fake claiming.


 And also if Speed is Mufasa, why would there be a Scar on the other side?
This is an insightful question, and one I have been wondering about myself.  If scum have characters that overlap fictional universes with town, then scum fake claims would be too obvious.  

That said, so far, everyone has unique fictional universes.  I'm not seeing other Lion King characters on the list, unless I missed them.  

Further, speed's claim does stand out because, at least as far as I can tell, he is the only claim for multiple living things (multiple hyenas) as opposed to singular characters.   But if this claim was fake, it stands to reason that speed would have recognized that issue and gone with a singular character from another universe.  Scar is the obvious choice for a town-sided role within the Lion King universe. 

So, if Scar is in the game, I am comfortable lynching Speed. 

But until Scar claims, Speed is not my preferred lynch.  IF anyone has Scar as their character, they should claim now.  Or anyone else who has a character from the Lion King universe.  Claim now.  

I don't think anything further needs to be said about Speed.  I'm also getting tired of reading Mikal say the same thing over and over. 

Collaterally, I wonder if Tony Soprano is in the game.  Or the Joker.  Or Walter White.  Or Frank Underwood.  

There is a part of me that thinks Mikal is the Mandalorian, even though he has said nothing to this effect. 

Until such time as I see any other Lion King characters being claimed, I'm interested in hearing more from MisterChris, including in particular his claim.  

In my experience on DP1, scum tend to hide behind noise that townies with strong personalities (e.g., Mikal) create.  

I would also like to know whether Sauron is in the game.  If so, that person should claim. 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@ILikePie5
If Speed flips town I think I know who one of his partners probably is.
Wanna try that again?
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@Elminster
You are sephiroth. Damn that cloud and avalanche for trying to stop your goals. You've always had the best intent. Sure you want to destroy the world but it's to bring about paradise and ressurect jenova. No one understands you but all you really want is to bring about world unity. You are deathrpoof because you are connected to the life force and can't truly die. 
----


Everyone so far has you are (bad guy). He flips why they are bad and explains how they are morally justified with the actions they did in their universe. You are town 


Are you claiming this? 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@oromagi
Supa may have been typing on his phone, but we can safely assume he wasn't copying and pasting.

Seems like if he was posting a fake claim, he would have copied/pasted.
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@ILikePie5
I think enough has been said about the theme and decline to discuss it further. 
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@ILikePie5
As I previously indicated at the bottom  of posts I will now copy and paste . . . 

Player - [Character] / [Role] (link to post)

  1. oromagi - ("My show is Karate Kid/Cobra Kai") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241261)
  2. elminster
  3. mistercrhis
  4. supadudz - Neagan / Miller (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241170) 
  5. greyparrot - Smeagol / Hider (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241213) 
  6. drafterman - ("I'm from a movie. If I say the movie it'll be obvious who I am. But I am a "villain") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241242)
  7. coal
  8. speedrace
  9. whiteflame
  10. warren42 - ("My character is from Game of Thrones") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592-inverse-reality-day-phase-1?page=2) 
  11. ilikepie5 - Magneto / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241345) 
Before I do anything, I have a couple of questions:  

@elminster - Who are you on DDO?  Have I played live mafia with you?  Who are you? 

@all - wasn't pie the one who VTL'd the confirmed townie as town in a life mafia game recently?  I feel like that was him.  

I also have a couple of observations:

We are not lynching an un-counterclaimed miller DP1; now, tomorrow or ever.  

Grayparrot is likely town. 

Supa is town. 

I would like everyone's thoughts on elminster.  I am particurlarly interested in what whiteflame, drafter, speed and warren think of elminster. 

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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@whiteflame
Thank you.
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@ILikePie5

 Your opinion. I’m voting Supa if there’s not an alternative.

This is unhelpful.  It proclaims to mafia that you will follow a wagon on an un-counterclaimed townie, and therefore provides them with an incentive to build that wagon; and prevent any alternative wagon from forming. 
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@MisterChris
Couple of things . . . . 

1. Who are you on DDO?
2. Have I played life mafia with you?
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@ILikePie5
Thank you

That would explain things so far . . . . 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@whiteflame
Can you confirm that elminister is Mikal? 
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@ILikePie5
Those are the reasons. I’d support my own lynch if I was Miller as well. It’s nothing personal, just the fact that it’s an easy fake claim for scum 
The miller is only an easy fake claim for scum if they know that there isn't a miller in the game that will counterclaim them, and mafia do not often have that information.  

Consider how it would play out.  Mafia fake claims a miller.  Miller CCs.  One of them is lynched.  The other's honesty or lack of it is confirmed.  

I am not persuaded. 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@MisterChris
Have I played live mafia with you? 
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@whiteflame

Well, it sounds like we've made some headway on figuring out the theme and the potential split. While I won't reveal what it is, I am at least familiar with the show my character is from, even if I'm not familiar with the character. Seems to fit into the theme that's been discussed.

Yes, and for the moment I think we've seen enough claims.  

What are your thoughts on Elminster; both in this game, and in general? 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@oromagi
Thank you 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
Player - [Character] / [Role] (link to post)

  1. oromagi - ("My show is Karate Kid/Cobra Kai") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241261)
  2. elminster
  3. mistercrhis
  4. supadudz - Neagan / Miller (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241170) 
  5. greyparrot - Smeagol / Hider (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241213) 
  6. drafterman - ("I'm from a movie. If I say the movie it'll be obvious who I am. But I am a "villain") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241242)
  7. coal
  8. speedrace
  9. whiteflame
  10. warren42 - ("My character is from Game of Thrones") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592-inverse-reality-day-phase-1?page=2) 
  11. ilikepie5 - Magneto / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241345) 
Let me know if I've missed anything.  I don't think I did, but I'm kind of tired and I've been working all day. 

Oro pointed out to me that he soft claimed AND that Warren was the person who claimed  that his charracter was from GOT.   

Oops. 

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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
Player - [Character] / [Role] (link to post)

  1. oromagi - ("My show is Karate Kid/Cobra Kai") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241261)
  2. elminster
  3. mistercrhis
  4. supadudz - Neagan / Miller (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241170) 
  5. greyparrot - Smeagol / Hider (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241213) 
  6. drafterman - ("I'm from a movie. If I say the movie it'll be obvious who I am. But I am a "villain") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241242)
  7. coal
  8. speedrace
  9. whiteflame - ("My character is from Game of Thrones") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592-inverse-reality-day-phase-1?page=2) 
  10. warren42
  11. ilikepie5 - Magneto / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241345) 
Let me know if I've missed anything.  I don't think I did, but I'm kind of tired and I've been working all day. 

Oro pointed out to me that he soft claimed.  I missed it.  I think that was when my order from DoorDash arrived.  

Oops. 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@oromagi
What was the post where you claimed? 
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@ILikePie5
It’s a pretty safe claim for a scum to make. I don’t want a Miller at MYLO or LYLO with me. But like I said if we have have a better target that should take precedence.

Someone, though I do not recall who, mentioned your unique approach to lynching millers in live mafia a week or two ago.  Do you have other reasons, or is that the extent of it? 
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
Player - [Character] / [Role] (link to post)

  1. oromagi
  2. elminster
  3. mistercrhis
  4. supadudz - Neagan / Miller (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241170) 
  5. greyparrot - Smeagol / Hider (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241213) 
  6. drafterman - ("I'm from a movie. If I say the movie it'll be obvious who I am. But I am a "villain") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241242)
  7. coal
  8. speedrace
  9. whiteflame - ("My character is from Game of Thrones") / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592-inverse-reality-day-phase-1?page=2) 
  10. warren42
  11. ilikepie5 - Magneto / ? (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5592/post-links/241345) 
Let me know if I've missed anything.  I don't think I did, but I'm kind of tired and I've been working all day. 

Before I do anything, I have a couple of questions:  

@elminster - Who are you on DDO?  Have I played live mafia with you?  Who are you? 

@all - wasn't pie the one who VTL'd the confirmed townie as town in a life mafia game recently?  I feel like that was him.  

I also have a couple of observations:

We are not lynching an un-counterclaimed miller DP1; now, tomorrow or ever.  

Grayparrot is likely town. 

Supa is town. 

I would like everyone's thoughts on elminster.  I am particurlarly interested in what whiteflame, drafter, speed and warren think of elminster. 
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@ILikePie5
I just got here lol. I’m in for policy lynching millers if we don’t have an alternative target
Explain your theory on why millers should be policy lynched, in sufficient detail.
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Inverse Reality Day Phase 1
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@ILikePie5
Please tell us any and all experience you’ve had with playing mafia whether online or in person
I have obviously had no experience whatsoever.  
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draftermafia Sign-Ups
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@drafterman
Maybe.  
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draftermafia Sign-Ups
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@drafterman
Well, I guess I'll sit this one out. 
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DART Unofficial MEEP/Opinion Poll
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@Discipulus_Didicit
This is a pretty big reason why I liked Ragnar's recent move of reducing the size of the CoC so significantly. It isn't going to happen all at once but I think that big move and several other more discreet ones are an indication that the mods are slowly taking the site in the right direction.
Well that is good, and to the extent that that's what he's doing, it's a step in the right direction. 

I've been shocked and dismayed at the level of over-regulation on this site.  It's as if Dolores Umbridge and Hillary Clinton sat down with a team of bureaucrats to develop the site's rules and structure.  Totally insane.

More insane is the fact that the legacy of bsh1's "moderation" wasn't destroyed as soon as he exfiltrated himself from the site.   Even this process, another legacy of his mismanagement and nonsense, is insane.  The fact that it's still here.  That this is still how changes to the "code of conduct" are proposed.  

It's nauseating.  

Rules that are good develop from observations and practices.  These were imposed from the top down.  


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What is one reason DDO fell apart.
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@User_2006
Imagine having a debate about whether black people should exist in 2020.

It would not happen, or if the topic (obvious troll topic) even came into being, the site would probably be subject to a DDOS attack. 
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DART Unofficial MEEP/Opinion Poll
I think the fact that the "MEEP" process exists in the first instance is nauseating.  

This is a procedure developed by someone whose fetish for rules and regulations strangled this site from its instantiation, who is now gone, and for that reason, this process should be vitiated. 

If the site needs ads to be viable, then put ads on it.  I can say with confidence that if the ads are too intrusive, I will leave.  But, I'm not concerned about that.

This site has too many moderators and the moderation process itself is absurd.  

Voting moderation should not exist.

You all take yourselves far too seriously.

This should be a place where people come to have fun, where good sportsmanship for the sake of good sportsmanship is encouraged, and where bans of any form are implemented only as a last resort by an individual who is and thinks like an adult. 

It's not that I think certain of those mods in charge now are incompetent; I do not.  I think they are operating under a culture that was created by influences that, fundamentally, understood neither human nature nor what optimal community functioning would look like.  And, having been given a fairly banal, if not trivial level of authority, grew the scope of that power to the point that every infraction would be "covered" to a level of specificity rivaling that of the tax code. 

That is mental. 

So this is me, throwing a brick into the glass artifice I see in front of me. 

You all do not need babysitters.  You just need to treat other people respectfully; and that applies both to the mods and to the users.  We can all get along in peace without so many idiotic fucking rules.  
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Chaos in Minnesota
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@Imabench
Such as? from what I can tell, the US has become so jaded and unreliable that there really isnt any effective route that can be taken to achieve reforms, so whatever releases community anger the most is the next best option. 
Such as nonviolent political action in any one of the scores of forms that can take.  Civil disobedience is the first and most obvious that comes to mind.  It is not only effective, it is the only form of resistance to oppression that does not poison the target audience against the activists.  

This is what the Antifa or Black Lives Matter people are too inept to understand.  

Every form of political action is evaluated on at least two levels: the objective and the means to that objective.  However noble any objective may be, if the means to that objective become alienating to the target audience, the activists have lost. 

Political activism is, before it is anything else, an act of public persuasion.  What that means is that you, as a political activist, have to over come public apathy to whatever problem you're rallying against and do so without making the public hate you.  Then, once the public cares and you have their attention, you begin to win them to your way of thinking. 

But if you lose the public's good will, you have lost any chance to win them to your way of thinking.  This is why MLK (and like every other political organizer who ever made a difference) insisted, to the end, on *never* resorting to violence no matter what violence was waged against him or those who followed him.  He understood, correctly, that as soon as those who challenged power engaged in the same or similar methods as the power they were resisting, good will in the public would be vitiated.  Not just lost; but vitiated.  

So marches, sit ins, and political organization and mobilization are forms of nonviolent options.  Go back and look at what happened in Freedom Summer; when college students registered tens of thousands of blacks to vote, and they voted, for the first time.  

And if you want to know if I'm right, look at the historical record.  How are the Weathermen remembered?  As terrorists.  How is MLK remembered?  As a civil rights leader.  

Think about how Bloody Sunday might have been remembered if the marchers fought back. 

Means matter as much as ends.  


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Chaos in Minnesota
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@Imabench
I sort of skimmed what you wrote and it looks like you are arguing that "the oppressed" have no other option but to engage in violence.  

This is mistaken.  There is always an alternative to violence, and the alternatives are far more numerous than you have described.  
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Chaos in Minnesota
I live in a fairly affluent area of Chicago.  It's around Northwestern Hospital.  

I have seen rioters burn police cars within blocks of my apartment, windows of established businesses and retail stores shattered, and mobs of rioters reign terror down upon my city.  Helicopters circled over the city last night.  Police formed protective barriers to prevent the rioters' onslaught into an otherwise peaceful neighborhood by the lake. 

In The Loop, which is the main business/commercial area of the city, businesses that have been here for generations have been destroyed.  Family owned, often minority owned businesses have been damaged beyond repair.  Their inventories have been looted.  Residents have been shot at by "the oppressed".  

While we have so far escaped the fires, arson, and the worst of the wanton destruction these criminals have caused; the night is still young. 

The rioters are both black and white.  Some of them are only kids.  Many of them are in their 20s and 30s.  

The looters are only black.  They are all ages.  

This form of violence does nothing to support any cause they seemingly support.  In reality, #BlackLivesMatter and its cohort, Antifa, look more to me pretexts. 

These people don't give a shit about social justice.  They just want to watch the world burn, and more specifically be the ones to set it on fire. 

If racial justice was their purpose, they would not be destroying the lives and livelihoods of minority-owned, and specifically black owned, businesses -- of which there (were) many in Chicago. 

I have sympathy for the victims of injustice; not for the agents of injustice.  These rioters are not victims.  They are the victimizers.  They disgrace their message, the cause of racial justice, and they have done irreparable harm to that cause.  Harm that will take generations to unwind.  

They are beneath contempt.  
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@Lunatic
You haven't played with oro much lately have you? He has a reputation for inactivity; just posting enough to not get replaced but not enough to ever be helpful. I suggest making him a policy lynch going forward.
That is a bad, reckless way to play.  
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@oromagi
I am very sorry to hear about your mother, Oro.
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@Danielle
Did you know Zaradi was lying about having a PR?
I was pretty sure he was lying, but I wasn't positive, because I didn't immediately believe Ragnar's claim.  Nothing about his play suggested he had a power role other than the doc, and I knew there wasn't a roleblocker in the game.

The strategy behind what he was doing was, subjectively, something I could only see town Zaradi doing.  That was a real read.  I would have read that the same way as town.  

Ragnar's play was annoying but Zaradi's was too. Gambits aren't always bad and maybe it's just because I don't know Zaradi well enough, but that seemed pretty dumb. There was no way for him to know if Ragnar was town that early on and I feel like that really could have hurt town if we had a doctor that was outed because of it. It would have been a much different game if Zaradi didn't replace out (or do that in the first place). 
I agree there was no way for Zaradi to know Ragnar was town (which, notably, is why TUF's entire "case" against me is vacuous).  TUF disagrees with what happened with Ragnar, but that doesn't change the fact that Ragnar was the most pro-scum and anti-town player in the game despite being the cop. It was spectacularly bad town play. 

Although, had those two played differently and we lynched Ragnar dp1 followed by a game of all vanillas, I don't think town would have stood a chance. I probs would have lost interest entirely. 
I don't know.  Maybe.  I still think the town's loss is more proximately attributable to Ragnar than anyone else.  

Ragnar's actions set in motion my strategy that cost town the game.  


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@sui_generis
there really was very very little chance of me changing my read on coal.
Nor should there have been.  I was objectively the most pro-town player in the game and you made the right decision to sheep me.  You were making the right decisions for the right reasons to the extent you were agreeing with how I was framing the issues for the town.

Your mistake, I think, was in scum reading Danielle for her expressing  willingness to consider that I was scum.  That wasn't a scum tell.  

TUF should have been the DP3 lynch.  Regretfully that didn't happen because he needed to be disposed of. 
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@Danielle
I figured that I would be on your radar based on your posts in the last DP, but I also thought that keeping TUF alive could convince you that he and one of the inactives were scum.  That's why I wanted to keep him alive, initially.  But then, in the end, the "case" against me suggested he was going to complicate the DP3 more than I wanted to deal with -- even if I think Oro and I still would have won.  

I wanted to win with TUF being the mislynch for the poetry of it, but that was going to entail more work than I thought was necessary (and possibly more risk because of the chaos and confusion he would have created by allowing him to remain alive).  

I assumed Sui would be the person most likely to vote and I thought that by VTLing him I would both throw you off and get Sui to try to establish his town-cred with me, because I was pretty confident he read me as town and thought that scum were one of Warren, You, or Oro.  So when that occurred to me, NKing TUF made more sense.  It's not because I was afraid TUF would lead a wagon on me (he tried that throughout the game and it went nowhere) and I was pretty confident if he tried it would just play to my advantage by further distracting from Oro's inactivity.

What I expected would happen was that once I VTL'd Sui, he would vote for Warren and then Oro and I would hammer.  But, when he VTL'd you I couldn't pass that up.  I suppose Sui town read me and therefore because he anticipated that you were going to VTL me, he scum read you.  Though, I still am not sure why he did that.  But that's my theory at least.  

All in all I think this was a good game.  I think that Zaradi tried to do something that I would have typically expected from Lucky, but it just didn't work out.  I wish he didn't replace out.  I like Zaradi as a person and as a player.  I also like TUF as a player when I'm scum because he is so useful to keep around, but that's another conversation entirely.  lol

Oro played as well as I would want any scum partner to play.  He let me do what I wanted to do with no interference.  That's really all I ever want in a scum mate.  I need to do my own thing and bounce ideas off, but that's it. 

The only players who really were irritating were Ragnar (because of how badly he played his town-cop role) and Max (for his inactivity and then replacing out).  Ragnar's town play was among the worst I have ever seen, and I think that the wagon that formed on him was objectively the correct decision as town or scum.  That is why his play was so anti-town and why it became so easy to misdirect -- on my end -- in DP2.  Ragnar, if anyone, is who lost the game for the town.  Not Sui and not Zaradi.  

That is because without Ragnar's play, Zaradi would have never fake claimed mason (or hinted at it), which means Zaradi would have never replaced out, which means Zaradi would not have been policy lynched, which means town would have had actual information to work with DP3.  But that chain of events began with how Ragnar played.  Now, to be sure, absent Ragnar's play I may still have been able to contrive some kind of strategy to misdirect and mislead, but it would have been a LOT harder.  Ragnar's play also gave me what I needed to get Sui to town read me.  

But after I knew who the sole power role was (which I did as soon as Ragnar fake claimed), I knew who to night kill then, how to control the NK's for the rest of the game, and what level of risk I had to potentially face (and the lack of it) because I knew there was nothing other than the cop. 

So I had a lot of fun, and I will probably play with you guys in the future again.  Hope everyone else enjoyed as well.

TUF needs to BTFO of Oro because that's just mean.  The idea is to play so that people want to continue to play with you, town or scum.  And acting like a jackass and blaming everyone else when you never had it right in the first place... it's just not a good look.   There is exactly zero chance you would have led the town to victory. 
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People really should read TUF's post, though.  I think in seven pages he got maybe two, incidental facts right.  The rest was nonsense. 
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