coal

The sequence of what happened there isn't just Oro's reads.  It's Oro's reads, Zaradi's suggesting Oro is potentially scum, and then Zaradi not voting for Oro.   

There are four possible worlds.  Both are scum, one is town and the other is scum; vice versa; and both are town.  

If they're both scum, then Zaradi has to do something in response to what Oro did otherwise he looked scummy; but bussing a team mate early is risky, especially if a wagon forms. 

So in the world where they're both potentially scum, it looked to me like Zaradi maybe had a guilty conscience and while he didn't feel comfortable leading a potential wagon on Oro, he certainly seemed willing to jump on one potentially early so as to preserve himself for later in the game. 

Also in the world where Zaradi is scum but Oro is town, then Zaradi is looking like he's laying the foundation for a mislynch but again he's hesitating; he's not willing to lead the wagon, just jump on board once it's rolling.  

If Zaradi is town and Oro is scum, then where Zaradi thinks he found a scum tell he should be voting for Oro whether Oro is town or scum, even if for no other reason than to apply pressure.   But that didn't happen.  So it's weird. 

But then i've got to consider the alternative world where Zaradi VTL's Oro.  I think that if that had happened, where Zaradi just voted, I would have read that as being very pro-town.  Even if he's grasping straws he would still be generating activity and potentially forcing others to take a position.  But maybe not.  I wouldn't have read it as OMUGS because I don't think as a player Zaradi is about that life.  

The problem here is that I agreed with Zaradi that what Oro did was scummy -- but town makes mistakes like that all the time, because they're uninformed.  That's what uninformed people do.  I also can see how town Zaradi might be thinking that by simply noting the behavior that Oro is up to, he has done his part.   So there is a different play style between him and I; except he has been acutely focused on inconsistency in other people's actions, yet doesn't seem to note the inconsistency in his own.  Does scum Zaradi identify this contradiction and avoid it?  Seems possible, but town Zaradi isn't even thinking about it.  

That's my thinking so far on that limited issue. 

Do you actually agree with my town read on TUF?  If so, do you agree with my reasons or do you have other reasons?  Do you disagree with my reasons?  Please explain.  If you have a basis to pressure TUF please indicate it.  

What is your read on Airmax? 

What is your read on me? 

Please post a list of your reads on all the players.  The OMGUSing thing, I assume, was a joke?  Please post actual reads so far.  

Here is a list you can work from: 

I concur.

I would like to see more of Danielle and Max, though.  

As for thoughts on the DP generally, and particularly in response to your comments above, I don't think that DP1 is usually anything other than fairly disorganized noise in the moment it happens, but I think that when people have the least information they are most likely to reveal their motives and intentions -- even if those motives and intentions aren't clear until the next day phase.   I think also patterns tend to become clearer in actions and intentions as a player's DP1 actions are compared to their DP2 and DP3 actions.   So yes even if I think there isn't a lot of moving the ball forward right now, because it's hard to do that by the design of DP1, I still want to see baselines of activity so that there's something to compare to later in the game.  Without that, it is much harder to sort town from scum and it is also unfair to deny others the chance to do so; while in the same instance giving scum the chance to lurk peacefully and then make stuff up in subsequent day phases while they don't have to commit to anything.  

Getting early reads is important I think for that reason.  Maybe others have a different theory, but I think there's value in early reads even and especially if those reads are based on little activity.  I think the absence of a willingness to post reads is also important.  I also like to see what other people think about other people's reads DP1 even if, again, the reads aren't going to be based on much.  It is in this way that who has an informed perspective should become more clear as the game progresses, as well as who does not.  I think it's often easier to get scum by POE by picking out whose perspective isn't informed, and with a higher level of accuracy, than to look only for slips and other tells.  Make no mistake, I think those are important, but I think looking at the other side of that is important too.  The potential masons in this game make that a bit more complicated, but still that's my thinking on the issue.  So that's why I'm somewhat frustrated by not having a lot of communication here.  Communication helps me understand where people are coming from and why.  When I don't have communication I have to wonder what people are thinking and what their intentions are, and that means that I have a harder time what people are up to.  

Do you buy his argument that he was setting up the VTL of Oro before I VTL'd Oro?   Please explain. 

Please elaborate more on your thoughts on Oro.  

I am really getting frustrated with the inactivity.  

We approach the time that prompts are needed.  

Why do you think that? 

In addition to what I have already said, TUF and Zaradi aren't even close to on the same page, and it doesn't look forced. 

They cannot both be scum.  

This is correct. 

I am just as open to pressuring Max, but I'm not sure if he's been online of late whereas Dani may have been online and thereafter not posted.

From Dani, I would like a list of reads so far.

I think the time to get Dani to be active has come.

Objectivity is looking pretty town rn.

What do you think about Oro's list of "reads"?  What do you think about Zaradi's jumping on the bus to VTL oro after that list of "reads"?

I have thought more of this.  It doesn't make any sense that Oro and Zaradi are both scum together unless they're not coordinating at all and then Zaradi VTL'd him in retaliation for Oro's seemingly random vote.  

It would be too weird for a mafia to VTL their scum mate like that where there was only one player (me) putting pressure on his teammate.

More likely case is that they are both town or only one is scum.  

Zaradi's jumping on the bus stands independent of that, though.  The alternative world where Zaradi is scum and Oro is town, but Zaradi tries to set Oro up is viable.  

On the other hand, Zaradi is doing what he should be doing if he is town, which is scum hunting (even if it seems a little forced).  That is why I am not VTLing Zaradi right now, but might do so later.  I will think more about this.  

I don't know what your intentions are.  But the sequence of events is noticeable.  

Explain why you voted for Zaradi but he wasn't your strongest scum read.  

Senpai has noticed you.

You can't set up a bus and then bus and then when you bus, thereafter say you weren't bussing. 

Weak.  If he is your scum buddy you have to do that after his list of "reads".  Otherwise it's you on the line, as I've clearly left the door open that I'm not convinced you're town.

Airmax is conspicuously silent. 

Don't get an attitude with me... that's not nice. 

I changed my mind.  

It's weird that Oro "reads" Zradi on the scale that he does.

It is also weird that Zaradi immediately jumps behind me to VTL Oro after that.  

That is something to think about. 

I still want Sui's list of reads of all players. 

Oh, boyo... do you want me to scum read you? ;)

Note that I said that  both you and TUF could not be scum, together.  I did not say that if TUF is town then you must be sucm.  Big difference there.  

I think I've been clear on what I want to see so far. 

Do you think that Zaradi and Ragnar are only interacting superficially?  

Why do you think Sui is lurking? 

Sui should post his reads on all players. 

Ragnar should post his reads on TUF and Zaradi. 

TUF is town.  I've tried to prod him multiple times and he's focusing on the objective.  

TUF and Zaradi cannot both be scum based on their interactions.

Objectivity is being shy; likely town for now.  

At least one of the people who have not posted at this point must be scum. 

I wonder if the masons are going to avoid talking to each other in the forms because they'll be worried about appearing like they're coordinating. 

Idk, players should read the potential setups... but I just don't care at least for DP1.  I will probably care slightly more DP2. 

What I'd mostly like to see are Adam's reads on people. 

I haven't played with him in the forums before and I'd like to know what he's thinking and why.  

I would also like Sui's reads. 

lol I did not actually read Lucky's OP (or the role list until after your post) 

I was tempted to not even read my role PM... 

And you're confident in your ability to read both sui and Objectivity?

Have you played with them before in forum mafia? 

You ignored my second question.  So you are town reading Objectivity then and you are town reading Sui? 

Thanks, but please include the [1/5] rather than just the number of votes.

I also like parenthesis around the whole listing of the voter and the post in which they voted.  Thanks 

It just helps keep things organized. 

airmax1227 [1/5]: (sui_generis (18)), 

So why didn't you want to start with Airmax or Danielle, each of whom have one vote on them now?

Do you think you will be able to read objectivity and/or Sui better than you would be able to read me? 

Also the friendly neighbor should breadcrumb that they are the doctor to draw the night kill away from the doctor. 

When you post vote counts, can you do it like this?  It's just easier to follow this way.

Please bold whoever has votes on them, and put the people voting in parens.  

Also, it would be very helpful for everyone so that you don't have to keep going back and reviewing posts that have already been reviewed, if you put the post number in there.  

Thanks

I'd like your list of reads on all players. 

I was going to wait until after maybe someone took the bait, but since TUF has already tripped the wire. . . 

1. Vanilla Townie

2. Town Jailkeeper

3. Town Cop

4.  Town Mason 

5. Town Tracker

6. Town Doctor

7. Town Friendly Neighbor

1. Mafia Goon

2. Mafia Role Cop

3. Mafia  Roleblocker

 

Potentially either 6 town and 3 mafia (unlikely, for balance reasons) or 7 town and 2 mafia (more likely).

If the former, then the Mason must be able to talk to a non-Mason.

If the latter, then the Mason should be able to only talk to another Mason; which would suggest only the possibility of only one viable fake role claim.  

Assuming a 7 town 2 scum setup, which I think is most likely, of the two mafia, one has to be a goon, the other has to be either a role cop or a role blocker; to have two would make scum OP. 

If there is a town friendly neighbor, someone should have results DP2 confirming that person's affiliation, unless the town friendly neighbor is roleblocked by either of a potential mafia roleblocker or town jailkeeper.

Whoever the friendly neighbor targets should indicate the message they receive first thing DP2. 

The jailkeeper should try to figure out who is the doc and protect that person NP1 if it is clear who the doc is.  Otherwise, the jailkeeper should try to block the potential scum most likely to perform the kill. 

It would be good if the cop could investigate the potential tracker, the tracker could track the jailkeeper, who protects the doctor on NP1.   

The cop should not claim until DP3, and post results for the past two night actions then.  

Now let's see how long it takes for TUF to suggest a mass claim. 

Well no risk of that now, is there, TUF?

Smh

Well I've already told Zaradi that he should take his shirt off so.... 

All I can say is that I remember that YYW guy and he was a total asshole.  

hahaha 

You shall be advised

I am but an obsolete

fuel source on DA

Be that as it may

You by your own admission

are DART's YY

You on this website

Spend time on frivolity

achieving nothing. 

I wonder if Mharman stopped wetting the bed...

I think by now I am a meme of at least DDO.

I note that to the degree you interact with other human beings that, themselves, interact with the rest of society, you run the risk of contracting the Chinese virus.  

Everyone will eventually get this.  Not a question of if, but when.