Total posts: 5,653
Posted in:
The scouts approach the village, following the Old Svalich road as it descends into the valley. As they keep an eye on the village, the windows of each house stare out back at them from pools of blackness. The gravel road leads them to the village, its tall houses dark as tombstones. Nestled among these solemn dwellings are a handful of closed-up shops. Even the tavern is shut tight.
No sound cuts the silence except for a soft whimpering that draws your eye toward a pair of
children standing in the middle of an otherwise lifeless street.
The Village:
The Children:
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Buddamoose
Budda:
And then we get into the issue that stopping in the midst of foreplay to be like, "I'm gonna need you to sign an consent form" is a huge buzzkill and oft would lead to zero sex and awkward interactions thereafter and into the future. Baby making would be super constrained, basically, and we want a system thats conducive to babymaking, while also one that stresses consent. Its a balance between the two. Too much focus on consent and the thrill dissapears, because well, you try reading over a contract and staying ready for sex, i wouldnt be able to, and credit to anyone who could 😂.
Except no one is asking you to sign a contract. I mean, people see a positive consent law and talk about things like contracts and affirming consent every five seconds. This is basically text-book strawman. Are you saying you literally cannot get hard in the presence of affirmative consent? If so, that is scary. Just sit back and think about it. Think about what this law is actually saying, not these comical cariactures you have drawn.
At least my hyperbolic scenario is one we all agree is an ideal outcome that should happen! You guys are just inventing stupid ideas that no one is calling for.
Mister:
That's pretty difficult. In cases of rape, it's mostly "he said, she said." I'm talking about ways to prevent it, not ways to convict rapists. And like Buddamoose said, it's quite difficult to have good sex while having to gain consent every five seconds, and at the same time can lead to people feeling like they aren't trusted.Just because I don't have a solution doesn't mean I can't criticize others.
I'm also talking about ways to prevent it. I believe there is some sense to the "teach men not to rape" angle. Go out there and a lot of men have some twisted and perverted issues when it comes to what is rape and the ideas of consent. Consider that, until recently, it was an accepted fact that it was impossible for a husband to rape his wife. Like, we didn't have laws against marital rape until the 19 fucking 70's. The idea that - yes - a husband can rape a wife was an idea that had to be argued and taught.
Socially, some men are simply not taught how to appropriately interact with women in ways that are not all attributable to mental illness.
Nor am I taking away your right to criticize, I'm simply criticizing it back. Again, consider that while what I present is impractical it is still a goal we agree on while your criticism is about something that no one is proposing (affirming consent every five seconds). So, given a choice between agreeing with something you agree with, you've decided to instead construct a fictitious scenario to critique and take the opposite side of the argument.
I do agree that men should take body language into account, and if they're continuing to do something even though the girl is being quite hesitant, there's something wrong.
Yeah, and a solution to that is changing how boys are raised into men. But that is a multi-generational process involving a generation of adults that actually agree with such a change needs to happen, and we're not there yet. In the mean time, rather than hoping men suddenly become attuned to body language, you still think it is unreasonable to place a higher value on affirmative, unambiguous consent?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
How? Unisex require fewer fixtures. Would that not be cheaper?
Doesn't? I don't see how that follows. Regardless, you'd have to replace the existing infrastructure in male-only bathrooms to accommodate female attendants. That costs money.
What about when scotus decided that segregation (separate but equal) was unconstitutional?
In that case of racial segregation, I agree with SCOTUS. Racial segregation is bad.
While this is impressively liberal, it doesn't actually explain why boys and girls have different bathrooms.
You asked what I'd tell him. That's what I'd tell him. The actual origins of the phenomenon is quite obscure and outdated and probably has little reason (other than the lingering momentum of tradition) for why they exist today.
Created:
Posted in:
Created:
Posted in:
Before you, the fog has dispersed, giving partial visibility to the wide valley below you. In the distance, tall shapes loom out of the dense fog that surrounds everything, recognizable as village dwellings. No lights can be seen coming from the village, and tendrils of the fog snake between the silent buildings.
Created:
Posted in:
Zud imbues Eikka with the certainty of action usually reserved to small children and heads of state. The plants and trees are of the same species that one would expect of this area but everything has the air of being... old... aged, but also untouched by time, as if not permitted to die. The stonework of the gates are worn smooth with time, and there is no evidence of any signage: Anything carved into the stonework would have long since eroded, and any wood would have long since rotted.
As they pass through, the gates close with another hideous screech. The fog follows behind them stopping at the game, lingering among the bars but passing no further.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
It is eerily silent, but not necessarily more silent than a forest would be at this time of night. However, the sky here on this side of the mountains is cloud-covered, muting the light of the full moon and making things more difficult to see. The tracks here have the same appearance and disposition of those examined elsewhere on the road: horse-drawn carriages leading to and through the gates.
As you approach the gate with your inspection, the gates open of their own apparent accord, accompanied by a piercing screech that rips through the silence.
Created:
Posted in:
(I'll note that minor illusion can only create static images of objects)
Created:
Posted in:
The party regathers themselves on the road. As they take stock of their surroundings they notice that the mountains are now suddenly behind them, to the east. All the more odd, given that at no point did they notice the road change from its flat grade to indicate that they passed over or between them.
The fog opens up in front of them, revealing the path ahead. Jutting from the impenetrable woods on both sides of the road, are high stone buttresses looming gray in the fog. Huge iron gates hang on the stonework and dew clings with cold tenacity to the rusted bars. Two headless statues of armed guardians flank the gate, their heads now lying among the weeds at their feet. They greet you only with silence.
Created:
Posted in:
(The width of the road is constant, yes. And the fog only threatens to separate those who venture off of the road. Those remaining on the road notice themselves in essentially a clear "bubble" of air, perhaps 20 feet in diameter that seems to move with them as they move west)
Created:
Posted in:
Roberts studiously observes the surrounding environment, as of now, the moon shines down through an open sky, but the party notices that, as they have moved further and further west, the fog has begun to slowly encompass them. At this rate, by the time they finish the five hour hike, they will be completely surrounded.
Sticking to the road, Roberts notices that the primary evidence of travel are hoof-prints and wheel tracks: horse-drawn carriages. There are many such tracks, indicating heavy travel, the most recent of which is only a few weeks old.
Heading into the forest along the road's edge, he inspects the trees. They are ancient and withered. A casual inspection would make one suspect that they are all dead, but nevertheless they are still alive. Dead and rotting leaves litter the forest floor. The primary evidence of animal life are wolf tracks, normal and giant sized, as well as some sort of wolf-human footprint. Webbing of various sizes and consistency cling to the odd tree here and there. There is no evidence of anything artificial or man-made.
Most notably, however, is the fog. It grows much thicker as one enters the forest, as if pushing the intruder back onto the road. The air grows thick and breathing becomes labored. Sounds are muted and even a shout only travels a few feet before being swallowed by the mists. Though he is only a few feet off of the road, Roberts can no longer hear the party, and can just barely make out their silhouettes through the fog.
Created:
Posted in:
Why can't we have unisex bathrooms in high school?
Money.
Do separate bathrooms teach kids that we see boys and girls as not equal?
No.
Are separate bathrooms not a form of segregation?
Yes.
Is segregation ever right?
I'll say that it's sometimes not bad.
If you had a 10 year old son, and he asked you why did boys and girls have different bathrooms, what would you say?
I do have a 10 year old son. If he asked me, I'd say that because girls don't have a penis and therefore cannot pee standing up; they have to pee sitting down. This means they can't use urinals.
What societal I'll is separate bathrooms in high school supposed to stop or inhibit? Is there evidential justification for it?
Gendered bathrooms arose in response to woman becoming more prominent in public social and working spaces. There was a perception that the outside world was dangerous, women were weak, and therefore they needed protection in the form of their own reading spaces in libraries, their own train cars, their own bathrooms. This justification is quite obviously horseshit of the highest caliber, yet the infrastructure is in place and it would probably cost millions of dollars to "remedy" that error.
As a guy, I am biased toward the status quo, however, in that I don't feel like waiting an hour at large gatherings to use the restroom. I rather enjoy being able to stroll down the quarter-mile long line of women right over to a urinal and be done with it in.
Created:
Posted in:
(I'll save y'all the trouble. Eikka and Roberts each have a Perception of 14. Describe what you're doing/how you're doing it, and I'll make the appropriate checks.)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@mustardness
The issue at hand for this particular question is sound as qualia. That is, the perception which is independent of the physical vibrations.
Created:
Posted in:
Economic Left/Right: -3.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31
Created:
Posted in:
The party fixes their gear and plans to head west through the Svalich woods. Contrary to their memory from a few hours ago, the road to the west now appears complete, though still in a clear state of disarray. The dampness from the ever present fog has seeped into the ground, creating muddy pools of black water, reflecting the moonlight like some dark mirror. A clear tunnel through the fog has appeared in ominous invitation. In the distance, far to the west, rise the mountains that hide the valley of Barovia. The full moon peeks over the tops of the mountains, as if watching the party and awaiting their entrance into its domain.
The trek down the road is quiet and uneventful. Occasionally, the group will hear the rustle of leaves or the snap of a twig from the depths of the forest, but the fog blocks any attempts to visually locate the source of the sounds. Once in the woods, the wall of mist gradually closes behind them, moving with them as they venture further and further west. The gnarled branches of Svalich's trees lean over the roadway, as if reaching down, ready to snatch up an unwary traveler.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Buddamoose
@Mister_Man
@Mister_Man:
No, I'm not. But if someone chooses to go along with something that they don't want to, then that shouldn't be a punishable crime.
And how would you, as a third party, ascertain their voluntary choice?
@Buddamoose:
The only issue is "terror" is a subjective element, "coercion" is not, but is quickly becoming a subjective element. For example with Louis C.K. Just because of his celebrity quite a large amount of people were saying his actions, the worst of which was asking if he could whack it in front of a couple fans in his private room, was coercion because he was a celebrity and those women felt pressured because of it.
First of all, surely actually masturbating in front of someone without their consent is worse. Secondly, I'll admit there is a grey area here in terms of coercion vs. pressure (and it's undeniable that the mere presence of celebrity creates pressure to assent). Did he coerce them? No. Did he exploit the pressure his celebrity naturally creates in order to do these things? Yes - he admits as much.
When like, ok, so anyone who has any semblence of power and celebrity cant make sexual advances? Because if their celebrity makes any sexual advance coercion, which is absurd to what coercion is, for example, telling a subordinate "either you sleep with me or i'll make sure you lose your job" or "have sex with me if you want this job". The act of coercion requires active intimidation, not percieved.
Well, I can't imagine any person getting away with what Louis did, so I'm not sure how his celebrity is a factor in this particular case.
But as pointed out, plenty of people are trying to attribute a criminal act(coercion) to acts which are far from coercive(such as C.K.). That's a dangerous precedent to set because it places the determination of whether or not a crime has been committed, squarely in the hands of the person percieving the wrongdoing, and not independent of that. Basically, its stepping into the territory of, *thats a crime because I thought it was". Which in turn makes alot of people guilty of crimes they rationally should not be held as guilty of 🤔
Depends on the crime and the law. In some cases, some crimes do have a subjective element. Some have objective elements. Some have both. In this specific case, it is a subjective element: whether he exposed himself in a place where people would likely be offended. Offense is subjective. This crime is also a misdemeanor (unless it committed three or more times) and has a short statute of limitations (which has since passed).
But for me, I take issue with Mister_Man's statement:
If someone doesn't want to have sex, all they have to do is say no.
Would you agree with that sentiment, Budda?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
What is a God?
I don't know, but I have it on good authority that if someone asks if you are one, you say: "Yes".
Created:
Posted in:
The barkeep grumbles again as the visitor bids his adieu and moves on to the next settlement.
Barkeep: Tha' forest surrounds the mountains. People mostly complain about wolves comin' oot and eatin' thar crops and kids. Sometimes wolves bigger than wolves if ye catch my meaning. I think tha' stuff about werewolves is hocus pocum. I've lived at the foot of these mountains for twenty years and ain't never seen no werewolf. I don't go out much, but ain't none come in here and order a drink, tho'
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mister_Man
So you're ok, then, with terrifying people into not saying no?
Created:
Posted in:
From the patrons, the names of "Barovia" and "Svalich Woods" evoke groans of dread and foreboding. All decry the Svalich forest at the base of the mountains as haunted, filled with monstrous wolves that walk like men. Occasionally the beasts will raid nearby settlements and steal away children and goods. More terrifying is the permanent fog that creeps over the peaks of the mountains and settles down, obscuring the forest floor. All who venture too deep into the forest are never to be seen...
...save for the Vistani. The patrons identify the man as a "Vistani": a nomadic people who travel from town to town, with no place to call their own. They are the only humans known to enter and leave the valley, though whether through protective magics or because they are in league with the evils that lie within is disputed.
Only the oldest of the patrons recognize the name "Barovia": name of both the valley and its chief settlement, at least according to legend. No one has laid eyes on Barovia or its native inhabitants in hundreds of years. Tales tell of warfare and curses and Dark Powers that have consumed the land and enshrouded it in eternal darkness.
As far as the visitor...
I did not choose to venture through the woods at night. The fog obscures even the noon sun and it is easy to get lost. The forest only allows you to pass if it wants you to pass. That I made it out is either through sheer luck or because it grew tired of toying with me.
He slowly rises to his feet shakily.
My need is great, and I must needs pass this message onto further settlements. I applaud you rising to this challenge and hope that additional help is unneeded.
Grahf inquires about places to stock up on goods. The barkeep informs them that the nearest shop would be several hours in the opposite direction, but encourages them to head in that direction away, as venturing in the woods - at any time - is a fool's errand.
Created:
Posted in:
The man sits up a bit more and appears to have caught his breath.
Yes, I came from the mountains, from a village on the other side... Please, we need your help.
He reaches the inside of his tunic and fumbles around for something.
In an accented voice he says, I have been sent to youto deliver this message. If you be creatures of honor, you will come to my master's aid at first light; It is not advisable to travel the Svalich Woods at night!
He pullsfrom his tunic a sealed letter, written in a beautiful flowing script. He presses the letter firmly into Grahf's hand.
Tomorrow, at dawn, take the west road from here some five hours marchdown through the Svalich Woods. There you will find mymaster in Barovia.
The letter reads:
Hail to thee of might and valor, I, a lowly servant of Barovia, send honor to thee. We plead for thy so desperately needed assistance. The love of my life, Ireena Kolyana, has been afflicted by an evil so deadly that even the good people of our village cannot protect her. She languishes from her wound, and I would have her saved from this menace. There is much wealth in this community. I offer all that might be had to thee and thy fellows if thou shalt but answer my desperate plea. Come quickly, for her time is at hand! All that I have shall be thine!- Kolyan Indirovich
(Earth: I don't really track alignment)
Created:
Posted in:
The barkeep raises and eyebrow at the commotion and simply shrugs his shoulders at the question.
The man is alive and simply appears to be suffering from exhaustion. Grahf - whose purse is slightly heavier - finds olive colored skin to be cold and clammy, both from sweat and the condensation of the heavy fog. He sits up slightly and opens his eyes at the group huddled around him.
Th-Thirsty...
Created:
Posted in:
The shouts and music gets the patrons' attention. Some of them actually smile and are entertained by the performance while the rest turn to their own business, mulling over cheap ale and brooding.
The stout barkeeper narrows his Snerp and grumbles something about annoying outsiders, then resumes 'cleaning' glasses - though they seem to end up dirtier than when he started.
Just as the mood seems that it might lighten a bit, the tavern door swings open, and a hushfalls over the room. Framed by the lamp-lit fog, a formstrides leans against the doorway. His brightlycolored clothes are draped in loose folds about him, andhis hat hangs askew, hiding his eyes in shadows. A heavy, booted foot fall breaks the silence as he takes a single step... then falls forward collapsing to the floor with a solid thud and jingle of coins.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
@Buddamoose
@Earth
@TheDredPriateRoberts
The tavern is smaller than average, and does not appear to be well kept. The road leading past the tavern quickly deteriorates as it continues west toward the forest at the base of the mountain, making this effectively a dead end; not a particularly lucrative spot for an inn.
Regardless, there do appear to be a number of patrons, about a dozen or so. Their disheveled state indicates that they likely chose this place simply to get out of the encroaching fog spilling down the sides of the mountain, oozing into the nearby villages. Not many appear to be eating or drinking, instead huddling together by the hearth where space allows, and by each other where space does not.
A haggard looking barkeep fills the orders of the few who request a drink. As you observe, you notice there is basically one thing on the menu: a rather nondescript ale, none too appetizing by the looks of those that bother to drink it.
The overall atmosphere is one of damp dreariness. Everyone is dressed in the local fashion: dull greys and browns, nothing too flamboyant. More than the look, everyone has the same miserable expression in their eyes, not that any raise theirs to meet yours.
Created:
Posted in:
(Oh, and anything out-of-character should be put in parenthesis)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
@Buddamoose
@Earth
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Day 1.Evening.Raining.
To a party of seasoned adventurers such as yourselves, what you see is but another dull tavern in another dull town in some nameless province nestled at the foothills of some nameless mountains. It is but another span of time between the challenges of true adventuring.
Outside the tavern, a fog lies over the town this evening. The damp, cobbled pavement glistens as the lights of street lanterns dance across the slick stones. The fog chills the bones and shivers the soul of anyone outside.Yet inside these tavern walls the food is hearty, and the ale is warm and frothy. A fire blazes in the hearth, and the tavern is alive with the tumbling voices of country folk.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
@Buddamoose
@Earth
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Before we begin, a note on preferred style:
Bold is speech.
Italics is thought.
Normal text is descriptive/action.
I will also use the quote tool to provide setting information.
Activity requested is minimum 1/post per day. If everyone posts, I'll follow up when I can, so we may be able to get more than one post a day in.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
You do realize you're on a debate site, right? Like, you're expected to actually argue a position effectively, not just make bare assertions and pray that the other side concedes, right?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
You cannot make statements concerning truth while simultaneously denying The Truth existing.
You can make statements concerning truth while simultaneously denying The Truth existing.
You see how this works? I can take any bare assertion you make and flip it on its head.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
And I could easily say: The Truth is not whether or not you choose to deny it.
See how much of a useless statement that is to make?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Earth
I didn't want to spoil anything, but I'll be doing a module.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Only if I accept your premises. I don't.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
So you believe that impermanence is eternal truth?
Not universally so. That facts can change doesn't mean they must change. They simply are.
But, more to the point of our discussion. You include an necessary element of essence to The Truth and the Ultimately Reality that exists above and beyond the mere truths and facts that make them up. I do not believe in this essence, meaning I do not believe in The Truth or Ultimate Reality as you define it, meaning I do not believe in God as you define it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Yes, correct.If the facts change, The Truth changes.
Thats the impression I am getting, and it looks arbitrary to me.
Again, correct. The facts of the world adhere to no grand master plan. They are what they are.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
We've already been over this and I really don't feel like repeating myself. As an example, I don't believe "The Truth" in the same sense as you. So all of this stuff where you root truths in "The Truth." I don't do that.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
It's only fundamentally illogical if one accepts your premises. The problem is, you fail to consider the fact that people aren't starting from the same premises as you.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Right, but we established that what you mean by those words isn't what I mean. Just because we label them the same thing doesn't make them the same thing.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Not according to how you've previously defined it, no.If you believe that the ultimate reality is the sum of all things true, you still believe the ultimate. reality. You believe God exists.
Created:
-->
@Castin
I agree. A bad habit spilling over from DDO.
Created:
-->
@DebateArt.com
Can we get this thread moved to the Misc or Personal forum? I don't think it belongs in this forum.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mister_Man
If there was a more reasonable solution to ending rape (which is sex against someone's will - someone regretting doing something because they decided not to say no is not rape), I would be completely on board with it. Unfortunately, rape is incredibly hard to prove and deter to begin with, so I'm not too sure what we can really do to put an end to it.
So instead you decide to give up on trying to end it and then criticize others for their solutions?
You're also taking away from natural human instinct and hurting the way we communicate naturally by forcing vocal interactions when nonverbal interactions have been our way of life forever.
I think this is an exaggeration of the situation; sex historically has involved and incorporated verbal interaction since the dawn of time. Furthermore, a culture of primarily non-verbal ques involving sex is just asking to create a haven where rape can go pretty much unchecked. As you just said, rape is incredibly hard to prove, precisely because of the ambiguous nature of consent. Yet you oppose making consent less ambiguous!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@FaustianJustice
If there was no rape, then logically that means all sex is consensual. But that is a separate issue from validating that consent.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Right, and I don't believe there is anything that is "Greater than the sum of all truths", so I don't believe in God.I would still say that God is greater than the sum of all truths.
And since you do believe that God is greater than the sum of all truths, you should recognize that what you believe in as God is something I don't believe in.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
I understand your analogy and how it relates to "truths" vs "The Truth."
But, I have no idea what this extra stuff is and I don't believe in it. I don't believe there is anything more or greater than simply the sum of all things that are true. I am an existentialist and believe that existence precedes essence, which is little more than our conscious abstractions of things that exist.
Created:
Posted in:
You could use minor illusion to obscure a campfire, but it wouldn't create an unnatural attraction to that spot. Also, for minor illusion, it creates either sight or sound. So while you might hide the campfire from view, you can't muffle its sound, block its heat, or obscure any smoke that rises out of the area effect. A better idea would be to hide the opening to a pit trap with a false illusion of the ground.
I'm doing milestone leveling, so XP will not be a thing in this game.
Created: