Total posts: 5,653
Posted in:
Night Actions:
Lunatic - Kill Water; Witch Speed
Supa - Steal Oro's role
Speed - Jailkeep Supa (roleblocked by Oro)
Oro - Drunk Speed (activates witch killing ability on Speed)
Water - Irrelevant because killed
Created:
Posted in:
Lunatic - 2/2 - Supa, Oro
Lunatic was lynched!
Lunatic - You are the WITCH. Each night you may visit another player. If a Town-sided player visits your target, your target will die. You win with the Mafia.
Town Wins!
Created:
Posted in:
Setup: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zIrMexPXe7UvdIKoL1NJ7331gRAyAVqSMpvytT9Ahls/edit?usp=sharing
Rules: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sJhZVByoBRh2ieqazkKlC9hFsiJjwWGFiwktRmJ5usE/edit?usp=sharing
Roles Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_pFVyzYrrc2kkwkX60hMmmTeYrM0bC3LejPCYtLZ9cQ/edit?usp=sharing
Died in the Night
WaterPhoenix - You are the FRIENDLY NEIGHBOR. Each night you may visit another player. That player will be told of your identity and role. You win with the Town.
Speedrace - You are the JAILKEEPER. Each night you may visit another player. They may not be targeted by other players and cannot target other players themselves. You win with the Town.
Graveyard
Water - Neighbor - Town
Speedrace - Jailkeeper - Town
Living Players
- Lunatic
- SupaDudz
- Oromagi
With 3 players, it takes 2 votes to lynch. The day phase will end on 2/19/2020 at 1:00pm EST or when all players have voted and a wagon has a majority vote.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
@Vader
@oromagi
@Speedrace
@WaterPhoenix
Going with this:
Sign-Ups
1. Lunatic
2. Supa
3. Speed
4. Oro
5. Water
It'll be 4 town, 1 mafia. Night start.
NP0 begins now. It will end tomorrow at 0700 2/18 or when everyone submits their actions.
Created:
-->
@Christen
Did you message the owner directly?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Sure. I'll start on Monday with whatever we have.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mharman
Yes, that is a 100% accurate verbatim account of what I said. You nailed it, buddy.
Created:
Posted in:
Sign-Ups
1. Lunatic
2. Supa
3. Speed
4. Oro
5. Water
6.
7.
Created:
-->
@TheRealNihilist
What? The fact that users are allowed to form and express their own opinions about other users? No, that is not being looked into.I guess it would be a CoC violation if he print screened his PM and posted it in the public?
Yes.
When the need arises, the head moderators can check IPs, yet. It is not a routine thing, no.How else do you check multi-accounts if not through IPs?
Multi accounts are checked through IPs, just not actively. It's ad hoc.
None.What is your next move since ethang5 said it was in PMs?
Created:
-->
@ethang5
Since the old account isn't in active use and they don't appear to have been perma banned, I don't see an issue. Thanks for the info
Created:
-->
@TheRealNihilist
1. NoIs that being looked into?
What? The fact that users are allowed to form and express their own opinions about other users? No, that is not being looked into.
2. Willows is not currently banned.Have you asked ethang5 why Willows will make a second account when his original account is still active?
No, why would I?
My only interest is if they are the same users then one of the accounts needs to be disabled to comply with alternate account rules.Don't you already check people's IPs.
When the need arises, the head moderators can check IPs, yet. It is not a routine thing, no.
What data could ethang5 give in order to convince you otherwise?
A public post where Salixes says they are Willow.
I don't know if it is in a PM, at the moment I haven't even asked for the info, I asked if it was public.If it is PM then wouldn't that mean ethang5 will be banned for sharing that information or maybe you will ban him for even accepting that before receiving that information. Don't know how you enforce that.
Created:
-->
@TheRealNihilist
1. No
2. Willows is not currently banned.
My only interest is if they are the same users then one of the accounts needs to be disabled to comply with alternate account rules.
Created:
-->
@TheRealNihilist
This is pedantic and I don't why you just can't scroll up but whatever.
I can scroll but. But I did not know that those posts were the posts you were talking about. This is why I requested specifics rather than just a vague "What ethang is doing."
Post #35Remember he was banned before (as Willows) for the same behavior. We are now under a different CoC, so it may be true that his is not violating our current CoC.Calling Salixes Willows without evidence. He should also know that you check this stuff so he is pretty much lying.
He claims to have evidence, which is why I responded to him. Even if he was calling Salixes Willow without evidence that doesn't make it a lie. It's only a lie if he knows it to be false. And even if he was lying there is no moderator response warranted.
Post #38Salixes is Willows.I've known he was Willows for a while, and said nothing till he voluntarily admitted to me that he was.Doubling down. Says he knows but doesn't show the information. This is could be seen as misleading moderators on information plus doubling down on an accusations.
Okay... And?
Because I didn't see anything he said that was actionable, so I had no idea what you were talking about. If you have a problem with a post either A) explicitly state which post it is or B) use the report function, that's what it's there for.Contrary to popular beliefWhy add this? I have in no way spread conspiracy theories nor made any comparison that you are literally everywhere.the moderators do not monitor every single user's posts. So when you say, "what ethang is doing" you are going to have to be more specific/explicit.Am I supposed to take this seriously? I never asked you to look at every single post. I said look at ethang 5's posts. It is heavily implied that it is his posts in this thread since I brought it up in this thread yet you say this?
A vague, "what this person is doing" isn't helpful.
Created:
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Contrary to popular belief, the moderators do not monitor every single user's posts. So when you say, "what ethang is doing" you are going to have to be more specific/explicit.
Created:
-->
@ethang5
Did they do this publicly or in PM?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
Not in set theory, no.Sorry, I don't understand what you're opposing. Are you saying that two sets with the same number of elements cannot be called equal?
Not if those elements are different.
{1,2,4} is not equal to {1,2,5}
The set of even numbers it not equal to the set of odd numbers.
It makes their cardinality the same, yes, but it does not make them equal.It depends on what the equality refers to. Two infinite sets are equal in infinity if they share a 1 to 1 correlation. Also, two sets with similar element types can be said to be "equal", like a set of black cars, and the set of red cars, if "equal" is referring to the type of element within the sets.
Since we're dealing with set theory, we should use the terminology of set theory. I'm not aware of the measure: "equal in infinity" unless you're just using that as a place holder for "cardinality." But the cardinality of the set is also its size, so we need to look back at the statement you made:
"All three sets are equal. The same size."
So either you are being redundant and saying that they are the same cardinality twice, in two different ways, or you have made an incorrect statement.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
The size of a set is represented by its cardinality. And you an certainly (as shown) move between larger and smaller cardinalities among sets of infinite size through addition and substraction.The only way to reduce an infinite set in size is to subtract an infinity, but that is not subtraction as much as it is a deletion.
Whatever you want to call it, it is the process you described.
No, being in 1:1 correlation with something does not make those two things identical.It makes them identical in infiniteness.
It makes their cardinality the same, yes, but it does not make them equal.
The set of all even numbers is in 1:1 correlation with the set of odd numbers, but it would be incorrect to say that the set of even numbers IS the set of odd numbers.You misunderstand me. A set that shares a 1 to 1 correlation with another set that is infinite, is itself infinite. And while we have infinite sets in theory, God is the only literal infinite set. Any real set that is infinite is either a subset of God, and therefore reflects the property of God, or it is the superset God itself.
What property of God?
But that is not what makes sets equal. Sets are only equal of they contain the same elements.No. There are several ways sets can be equal. They can have an equal number of elements, or they can have the same type of element, or they can be infinite.
Not in set theory, no.
It is not rational to say two sets are equal because they have the same elements. This is tautology. Its like saying the set of all even numbers is equal to the set of even numbers. They aren't two separate sets. But sets can be equal in size, or type of S, or in infinity.
You aren't always dealing with known sets. Sometimes you have two sets that may be different that are subsequently shown to be equal. That is: containing exactly the same elements. This is a very useful thing to do in set theory.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@OntologicalSpider
It's amazing you answered "yes" to my quote... You can't even look at the sun with your naked eye and you expect the Creator of all Suns to give you a shout out...
Yes.
You're yet to explain why God is obligated to speak to you directly, considering he's the Creator of the entire universe and everything within it, and you're a collection of dust who came on the scene in the 80s, but interestingly enough, let me ask you this.
Not obligated, perhaps, but he's the one that wants me to believe in him, yet doesn't do what is necessary to bring about that result. Seems odd.
If the God of the Bible came down directly from heaven and said,"Drafterman... I am real."In all honesty, would you worship Him and become a Christian?
Of course. Why wouldn't I? If any all powerful being made itself known to me and threatened me with eternal torment if I didn't worship it, I would worship it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@OntologicalSpider
If we're talking about what God actually does in response to a genuine believer, Jesus already told us:Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23)So no, we don't actually have to pull a guest into our house, He will come and make His abode with us. That's contingent on us actually seeking/ believing on Him.
Yeah, exactly. I've done that. And yet...
I'm not personally aware of anything God has done for me.Oh that's just crazy talk. Aside from holding together every atom in your body and supplying you with life and consciousness for some three decades, He also died to redeem your soul. That's lot.
I'm not aware that God is doing that.
I find it ironic that you contend you're a limited being with a life of your own who shouldn't shoulder the responsibility of seeking his Creator. Think about this for a moment...The Being who not only created the entire universe, and for all we know, multiverse, but sustains and upholds the entire realm of existence, sustaining our world, sustaining all the life within it, ordering the cosmos, judging countless souls... Basically the Manager of the universe, is obligated to pursue a minute life form unimaginably below Him?
Yes.
The amazing thing is He does pursue us still. He even sends ontological spiders to try and reason with unbelievers and show them the error of their ways. ;)
And this is where you undermine this whole thing. This is literally the least efficient and least reliable way of doing it. So you're saying God is unwilling to actually contact me in a meaningful direct way under the reasoning that it is not his responsibility of doing so, but God does manipulate others to do it on his behalf?
You can't have it both ways.
If he wants me to believe, he can make that happen. It hasn't happened, ergo he either doesn't want me to believe or he doesn't exist.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@OntologicalSpider
I would argue the opposite.
So when you invite someone into your house you don't wait for them to come in, you physically pull them inside?
We submit to God as a response to what He did and does for us.
I'm not personally aware of anything God has done for me.
We don't say hey God if you're out there give me a jingle sometime. That's hardly the right way to approach the Creator and sustainer of all.
Why not?
Think about the implications of this for a moment. If God exists, He is the sole reason for your existence. You are completely dependant every day on Him sustaining your life, giving breath and letting you live to see each minute.So in light of that alone, if God did exist, would in not be our responsibility to seek Him
I remain to be convinced that between God - who's is omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent, and the one that wants believers - and me, who is a drastically limited being with an entire life of my own - that it is somehow my responsibility to sift through all the muck and mire of thousands of years of human myths and superstition to figure out which is right and wrong without any sort of discernible feedback.
If God wants me to believe he could settle the issue in an instant.
Created:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
My response is that I don't see any behavior that needs to be discouraged, ergo no reason to update the CoC to give the mods the authority to deal with it.
What Silaxes is doing is fine.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
You said you were done with the conversation and I accept that.
I am not interested in your parables since you are unwilling to stand by them. As far as I am concerned, you ended the conversation, so let it be over. Unless you wish to re-continue our previous conversation, please do not respond to me.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@OntologicalSpider
I'm just wondering, why does God have to shoulder the burden of pursuing you? If God existed, wouldn't you, as His creation, be obligated to seek and know Him?
This thread is about inviting God into one's hearts and mind. Once the invitation is sent, the burden is naturally on the recipient to make an effort to respond.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Sincerity is a state of mind. It is the mens rea, not the actus rea.
Human beings generally require actions to support the state of mind because we lack the capacity to peer into someone's state of mind to validate it directly. God is not bound by that limitation, so supporting actions are unnecessary.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@OntologicalSpider
I have no idea. But no worries, if God exists, he knows what it would take.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@OntologicalSpider
Then good for Paul? Doesn't do me a lick of good.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
You said we weren't going to use parables or poems, sorry.
Created:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
1. Whether or not this is against the CoC is literally what this thread is about.
2. It's the job of the moderators to enforce the CoC, not Dr. Franklin's whims.
Created:
-->
@Dr.Franklin
In terms of what the CoC would disallow and require to be removed, it isn't.
Created:
We're not the "quality content" police, unfortunately.
Created:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
People have tried to "game" the system with high quantity posts. Some did actually engage in spamming by posting the exact same (or virtually similar) message over and over again and those posts were deleted.
What Salixes is doing isn't posting the same message over and over again, however.
Created:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
That's not what spam is.
Currently there is no limit to the number of threads a user is allowed to make in a certain period of time. While the threads are low-effort content, they are all different and Salixes is generating and responding to discussions.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
To say that scripture is "just" a book of myths is very dismissive.
You're right, there are parables and poetry, but we're ignoring those for this conversation, remember?
unless your scripture says that Jesus was the entirety of space-time and all of the energy and matter contained therein, then he wasn't a perfect image of reality"the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."
But reality (nor anything in it) was created, unless we're just talking about the reordering of extant particles. But reality can't fit on a cross and bleed. So if Jesus fit on a cross and bled on it, he wasn't the perfect image of reality.
I said that I, like everyone else, directly experiences reality, not that the perception of reality is the same among everyoneEveryone directly experiences a reality, and everyone's experience is their personal relationship with God.But the reality that we experience is not ultimately real. It should be apparent that the inadequacy of our senses, the propensity of the mind to hallucinate, the desires and motivations of our heart, and the narrowness of our perspective act as strong evidences that the way we experience reality is not reality as it truly is.
Those are perceptions, which I already addressed. We all experience THE reality, though our perceptions of it differ.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
You appear to be expressing naïve realism.
I said that I, like everyone else, directly experiences reality, not that the perception of reality is the same among everyone.
If Jesus Christ were simply a human being, the scripture would not say, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man"
I don't see why not. The scripture was just a book of myths written by other human beings.
Regardless, unless your scripture says that Jesus was the entirety of space-time and all of the energy and matter contained therein, then he wasn't a perfect image of reality.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
I experience reality directly, just like everyone else. No bridge needed.
And Jesus, being a human being inside reality, can't be a perfect image of it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Okay, but if reality is already eternal and uncreated, what do I need a bridge for?
Created:
Posted in:
Current Quickfire
Quickfire Sign-ups
drafterman
Quickfire Hopper
TUF- president role
Bullish - Nightless Sensor
Current Mafia
Sign-ups
Zaradi - D&D
In the Hopper
Virtuoso
Bullish (Memes of the 2010's)
SupaDudz- Total Drama Island
drafterman
Discipulus_Didicit - Star Control (no bastard mechanics)
Speedrace
Lunatic- Pick yer poison!
ILikePie5 - Bakugan or Riverdale
On Hold
warren42
Created:
Posted in:
Third quickfire game using my Semi-Open Setup for 7 players (5 town, 2 mafia). Semi-Open TL;DR:
- Semi-Open: the ratios of town to third party to mafia is known. The pool that roles are selected from is known, but not the subset that is selected for the game. Within each affiliation, roles are unique. Roles with identical functions are named differently between Town and Mafia (e.g. Tracker. vs Scout)
- The game is Night Start. Instead of starting at DP1 leading into NP1, it will be NP1 leading into DP1.
- With 7 players, the ratio will be 5 town and 2 mafia.
Also, here are my generic Mafia Rules. TL;DR:
- Day Phases are 36 hours or when all players have voted and a wagon has a majority vote.
- Players not voting if the time limit has been reached are removed from game. (This is the only requirement for activity)
- If a role calls for a Twilight Phase, it will begin at the end of the Day Phase and last 12 hours or until all actions have been submitted.
- If a game uses Twilight Phases, the results of the lynch won't be revealed until after the Twilight Phase has ended.
- Night phases last 24 hours or when all actions have been submitted.
- Players not submitting actions when their respective Twilight or Night Phase ends will be removed from game.
- Actions may only be waived explicitly.
- Use of encryption or external sites to convey information is forbidden (no deciphering schemes or use of Google Documents for arguments)
Links:
Full Roles List: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_pFVyzYrrc2kkwkX60hMmmTeYrM0bC3LejPCYtLZ9cQ/edit#gid=0
Sign-Ups
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
Starting with #3, the referenced paper does not prove that all identical sets are equal,The paper does not try to prove all identical sets are equal! What would "identical" and "equal" mean in such a case? Identical sets ARE equal.The paper asserted that though p was a subset of t, t was not larger than p! The subset still shared a 1 to 1 correlation with the original set. They were both infinite.
Sorry, I meant "infinite", not "identical"
As a consequence, findings #2 and #1 are also false, as you can move from a countable set to an uncountable set via addition or subtraction. For example, the Integers + (Reals-Integers) = Reals. E.g. you've added something to a countable set to make it uncountable, thus increasing its cardinality. And a similar logic shows that you can subtract from an uncountable set to make it countable, thus decreasing its cardinality.You are confusing countability with infinity. You cannot move from infinity to finite via subtraction with infinite sets. And addition does not change a sets cardinality. Findings #1 and #2 are correct as to the sets quality of being infinite.
"Countable" is a kind of infinity. And there are different infinities with different cardinalities that allow is to make statements regarding their size. The size of a set is represented by its cardinality. And you an certainly (as shown) move between larger and smaller cardinalities among sets of infinite size through addition and substraction.
That they exist in 1:1 correlation with God (and each other) is true.And any being with a 1 to 1 correlation with God IS God.
No, being in 1:1 correlation with something does not make those two things identical. The set of all even numbers is in 1:1 correlation with the set of odd numbers, but it would be incorrect to say that the set of even numbers IS the set of odd numbers.
However, it is not true to say that the sets are "equal." They have the same cardinality, yes, but sets are only equal if they contain the same elements.Untrue. Two sets containing all the same elements are tautology. They would be the same set. They are equal in "infiniteness". And share cardinality.
But that is not what makes sets equal. Sets are only equal of they contain the same elements.
Since F, S, and H are all proper subsets of G, then necessarily G contains elements not in F, S, and H meaning it is not equal to them.Partly true. For F, S and H are still just as "big" as G, and still have a 1 to 1 correlation to G. And while G has elements not in each subset, no subset has elements not in G.It is possible for F = S = H, however, since we are told of no other distinguishing characteristics that might set them apart.If they are separate sets, they must have at least some unique elements.But again, it would seem that the fact that G contains elements not in F, S, or H, then G has properties that are also not in F, S, H, namely the property of containing said elements!Containing certain elements is not a "property". Of course G has elements not in a subset. That is a given. The point is that the subset is still the same size as G.
In this respect we were talking about reflection which talks about the properties of sets. What do you consider to be "properties" of sets in the context of the reflection principle?
Created:
Posted in:
So if I'm a doctor that can self target that's actually meaningless because being targeted by the mafia prevents my night action anyway.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
There is no "begining" to the universe. It is uncreated and eternal. So please provide an example of created energy. Is it kinetic? Gravitational? Potential?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
So? Since when does killing double as a roleblock?
Created: