Total posts: 5,653
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Vargas: Yes. Very well. I think I've seen all I need to see. Join me in the Town Square two night's hence.
Vargas then heads out of the room.
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Eikka can easily follow the sound of music to where Snerp is.
[Snerp Performance Check: d20 (11, 13) + 4 = 17]
Vargas gives a vigorous round of applause. Very good, master gnome, very good. I think you've earned yourself a spot as our feature act!
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(Larry, Curly, Moe, Shemp, and two Joes)
Grahf heads out of the room and up a set of stairs. At the top of the stairs are two doors.
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Henrik: The bones are in my bedroom upstairs, in the wardrobe under a false floor. The vampires... they're in the boxes in the storage up stairs. They're planning on attacking the church on the day of the festival. Please don't hurt me!
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(@Budda: He came in from the same hallway that you did. So you see the hallway)
(@Secular: Yes, we can assume you've made it there and have rejoined your companions)
Vargas looks confused: My court? What are you babbling about? I want you to perform for the festival, and I want to hear a sample now. I'm a busy man. He waves his hand in the general direction off the illusion. I'm sure your illusions are very entertaining, please continue.
Grahf bursts into the shop from the southern entrance. He finds himself in a workshop area. This workshop contains everything a carpenter needsto make coffins and furniture. Three sturdy worktablesstretch the length of the west wall. An old man stumbles backwards in surprise and scurries across the floor away from the fearsome dragon born.
Henrik: Please! I didn't have a choice! They made me get the bones!
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Burgomaster Mansion
[Snerp Insight Check: d20 (20) + 2 = 22]
Snerp senses that the man is self-conscious to the point of desperation. The desire to have outside support of his festival seems like a way of legitimizing it. That is, if some stranger has traveled from outside the valley just to perform here, then the festival must be important.
Vargas, impatiently: Yes, yes, play now!
Coffin Maker House
Even at the threat of bringing the guards, the man inside refuses to open up. Go away! I've done nothing wrong!
(There are two entrances to the coffin shop. One to the top right, the other to the bottom left.)
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Vargas: Hmm. Yes. A vouchsafe from intrepid adventurers from beyond the mountains. That would do nicely. Of course I would have to have a sample of your talent.
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Lucien: I don't know, but I'm sure you will do what you must. The survival of this town depends on it.
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Vargas: Yes, yes, very good. And how might you be of service to our fine town, Sir... Finkleskitzle?
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Father Lucien is distressed by the news. He pleads with Grahf. Please don't tell the guards. If they knew there were vampires, that'd cause a disturbance. If Vargas found out I was the cause of such a disturbance, I'd be tossed in stocks for sure...
After a while in the Burgomaster's you hear a voice coming down the hall.
All will be well! All will be well my people! Rejoice and keep evil at bay!
A tall, lanky but lavishly dressed man steps into the foyer. I hear I have more acts for our festival! I am Baron Vargas Vallakovich. Who has the honor of meeting me?
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@Castin
Either have a third party rewrite it, or place the moderation team.
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@Earth
(The only mechanically issue with the vaccuum of space is the need to breathe, which Vampires don't)
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I can see quite a bit of truth there. Interpretive power does diminish the power of the rules themselves, in practice. But I think RationalMadman hit the nail on the head: you can't remove subjectivity or the human element from a system of power.
Right. But we can minimize it. Right now it is maximized. If the argument is: We can't eliminate it completely, so we should turn the dial up to 11. Then I disagree. It's like saying, we can't cure cancer right now, so let's actively give it to people.
Statutes cannot rule by themselves; they always need people to enforce them.
Statutes? It's just rules on a web site on the internet. I find these depictions of the moderation here as some sort of government as laughable. The moderation on this sight isn't a government and has none of the qualities of a desirable government.
In the meantime I'll freely admit that I'm simply placing my trust in the personalities of our moderators, but I'm not entirely hopeless that a compromise can't be reached which addresses your concerns, as I think you make valid points. I'm not sure what form such a compromise would take. I'd be interested in hearing suggestions.
The moderation isn't interested in a compromise and has no incentive to reach a compromise. They have all the power, are the final say in how the site is run (even trumping the site owner, apparently). There is literally no reason why they would willingly give any of that up.
I've heard moderation say many times now that this is to protect the privacy rights of members. Your "criminal record" is personal and sensitive information. Your votes on debates aren't, really. So I can understand why these two realms are treated differently.
Huh? Your comments are as public as your votes. Yet if your vote violates the CoC, there is a specifically tailored message explaining that it was reported, evaluated, and what moderation action was taken, with all the ways you fucked up. Yet when that applies to a forum comment it is magically a violation of privacy?
Like, you can't even ask a mod if a comment violates the CoC and they won't even answer hypothetical questions on comments. Yet you'll get a 5 page treatise on how and why votes are good or bad.
EDIT: Additionally, I think there is something to be said that the people who make up the moderation team should be separate and distinct from the people who make up the Code of Conduct. By having them be the same people, you end up with a group that has an emotionally vested interest in the rules as intended rather than rules as written and a propensity to ignore mistakes in moderation which inevitable leads to moderator abuse.Another point I find true but unavoidable.
How is this unavoidable? Every single thing in that paragraph is something that can be avoided. Don't have moderators who were involved in making the rules. Simple as that.
But I think bish would make every effort to ensure the rules as written reflect the rules as intended. The only time I saw someone who seemed to violate the rules as written without being penalized was when Vaarka said "you're all idiots" shortly after the CoC went up. But since moderation is private, I have no idea how that was really handled.
And yet if that was a vote, we'd have a very public demonstration as to whether or not it violated the CoC and whether that comment was deleted. See the difference and double standard?
Also, I don't have as high opinion of bsh as you do.
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The maid continues to stair at Snerp, dumfounded.
Maid: Riiight. Follow me.
The maid escorts Snerp and Roberts down the hallway to the first door on the right and opens the door.
Maid: Wait here and the Burgomaster will be with you shortly.
Padded chairs and couches line the walls of this cozy,carpeted den. The room reeks of pipe smoke, andmounted on the east wall is the head of an angry-lookingbrown bear.
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As Grahf focuses on sensing beings of good, evil and otherwise, he gets the strong sensation of nearby undead. Specifically, 6 undead sources coming from the second floor of the coffing shop.
From inside the shop: Because we're closed! That's why!
Player Summaries:
✶Eikka - 31/31 HP - 16 AC - Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Relentless Endurance: ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|3
Grahf - 36/36 HP - 16 AC - Breath Weapon: ⬤ | Divine Sense: 3 | Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Lay on Hands: 20 | Spell Slots: 2
Luraxt - 22/22 HP - 13 AC - Arcane Recovery ⬤ | Spell Secrets ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|3
✶Roberts - 36/36 HP - 18 AC - Action Surge: ⬤ | Second Wind ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3
✶Snerp - 23/23 HP - 13 AC - Bardic Inspiration: ⬤⬤ | Feather Fall ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|3
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As Grahf looks around the shop, he hears movement from inside. Go away! We're closed!
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Burgomaster's Mansion
The maid looks around, confused, then back at Snerp.
Maid: U wot?
The Coffin Maker
Grahf, Eikka, and Kinder make their way through the town. The sight of a half-orc, dragonborn, and drow are something of a novelty, and they attract the attention of anyone within eyeshot. Needless to say, the sidewalk on their side of the road becomes conspicuously empty whenever they approach. Eventually they reach the location of the coffin shop.
This uninviting shop is two stories tall and has a sign shaped like a coffin above the front door. All of the window shutters are closed up tight, and a deathly silence surrounds the establishment.
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@Mopac
Not according to the dictionary
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(Let's see what the rest of the group wants to do, ie join you or split up)
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@Mopac
Perhaps you should abandon the assumption that what is obvious to you isn't obvious to other people.
It isn't obvious to me that there is some fundamental power that has authority all over reality that reality and truth depends on for its existence. And I'm not asking you to make things simpler. That's part of the problem. Is you have opted for simplicity in your terminology at the expensive of actually conveying useful information.
Like, you can tell me that a Honda Ridgline is like a Honda Pilot, but if I don't know what either of those things are (let alone what a car is), that isn't going to convey any knowledge to me.
So, make it less simple. Let's zoom in and break these things down to their constituent components. It's like pulling teeth, but we're getting there. So far, as far as I can understand (and correct me if I'm wrong)
But The Ultimate Reality is some fundamental, supremely authoritative, and final power to all reality that all reality is contingent upon and depends upon and without which cannot exist. Right?
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Roberts inquires as to the purpose of the twigs. A small child smiles.
It's for the festival! We're going... we're going to build a GIANT SUN and then... and then... we're going to LIGHT IT ON FIRE!
The mother rolls her eyes and escorts the child away.
Snerp steps into the vestibule of the house. Framed portraits adorn the walls of this grand foyer, which features a wide staircase with a sculpted railing. A long, carpeted hall attached to the foyer stretches almost the length of the mansion and has several doors leading away from it, including one at the far end. Bundles of twigs are heaped against the walls.
In the room is a young, disheveled looking maid who seems to be directing the villagers as they bring in the loads of twigs.
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@Mopac
What about what I'm saying do you believe contradicts what you are saying?
I never said there was any contradiction. There are just extra elements in your version that I don't know what those are and what those mean.
This is something you seem to keep missing in our conversations. Whatever my depiction or understanding of reality, yours includes extra elements. I want to understand what those are. To wit:
1. What is "the total essence of reality? (I don't believe that reality has an "essence", I believe existence precedes and is greater than essence)
2. What is the "fundamental power to all reality"? (I'm am not aware that there is a fundamental power to all reality. I don't know that reality requires some fundamental power to account for its existence).
3. What is the "supreme, final, and fundamental power" that reality depends on? (I am not aware that a supreme, final, or fundamental power exist, or that reality depends upon such a thing)
You're overly concerned with labels and keep switching among them. I'm trying to get down to the brass tacks of what these things actually mean in order to evaluate whether it's reasonable to believe in them.
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(It's about 6 hours till midday)
Rictavio: The only place to get useful wares would be the stockyard where I keep my wagon. As far as magical wares, you'd need to go to a big city for that. Nothing like that around here.
Rictavio then gives him directions to the stockyard (N5) and burgomaster's house (N3).
Snerp, Roberts (and any others) head through town to the burgomaster's mansion. When they reach it, they see a mansion with walls of plastered stone that display many scars where the plaster has fallen away from age and neglect. Drapes cover every window, including a large, arched opening above the mansion's double entrance doors.
The mansion is very busy, with people coming and going, most of them carrying bundles of twigs which they take inside and come back out empty handed.
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Rictavio: As a fellow entertainer, I'm sure you understand how much preparation can go into these things. It would require a lot of modification to incorporate a second act, but fear not, I am sure there will be enough room in the Festival for both of us!
Szoldar grumbles but takes the coin. We be back at noon. Then hunt some more, with or without you.
Yevgeni nods. Hunt. Noon. Da.
The hunters then exit the tavern.
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@Mopac
There is reality as it seems to be and reality as it truly is. When you say, "the reality that we occupy", that doesn't really tell me much. We certainly all live in God, but what you call reality may in fact be what reality seems to be to you. The reality that you know.
When I say "the reality that we occupied" I mean the physical universe. All the atoms and energy and space and time that make it up.
The reality we can understand is not the same thing as reality as it truly is, and the reality thst we understand comes from reality as it truly is. Otherwise, what are we understanding?For there to be an understanding, there must be an abstraction process, that is, a taking away of information. When we understand things, we are not really holding on to the entire thing. It is impossible to hold on to the whole thing, the very act of knowing necessitates the highlighting of some information at the expense of other information. In fact, this is something that goes to our very senses even. The ear does not see the way an eye does. They extract different information from the source, and so the way they sense the world is completely alien from each other.The source is God.If you can understand what I am saying here, every single one of your questions will be addressed.
No. I don't understand what you are saying. My ears and eyes extract information from the physical world around me, not God.
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Rictavio: Well, you'll just have to attend the festival and see!
Szoldar: Daylight burning. Where do you want to go?
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Rictavio: Oh, I've only been here for little over a month. It is a miracle that Urwin tolerates my presence, especially after the Piccolo disaster (poor monkey). I came here because that is where my travels took me! I go from town to town, preferably one I've never been to before. I haven't left yet, I can't leave until I've made my grand performance!
As they are conversing, the hunters Szoldar and Yevgeni meander into the tavern.
Szoldar: Is time to hunt? Da? Where do you want to go?
Yevgeni: Hunt. Da.
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@janesix
The entire biomass of Earth comprises about 0.00000000938% of all of its mass. It is not "much more" than a rock. It's a rock that has some wriggly carbohydrates smeared on its surface.
Spinning through space.
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It doesn't have a purpose. It is a rock spinning through space.
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@Mopac
What is the mystery surrounding what truth means? Reality?
I know what truth and reality are. I do not know what The Truth and the Ultimate Reality are.
It is not hard to accept that there is a reality as it truly is. A reality true independent of observation and postulation.
I'm with you here. I believe in this! But, we're going off the dictionary, right? This is what the dictionary says:
I don't know what that is. Do you?
The very foundation of all realities, the sustainer of all realities, and the reality that is not contingent on other realities to exist.
Whoops! Lost me again. I'm only aware of one reality: the reality we occupy. I am not aware that it needs a foundation or sustainment or that it is contingent upon some other reality. This is where you're going to have to help me. Because I am not aware that any of that exists or needs to exist.
Q1: 1. How does The Truth differ from a truth?A1: It is the difference between the uncreated and the created.
Huh? "Created" and "uncreated" are opposites. Are you saying that "Truth" and "truth" are opposites?
Q2. What does "The Truth is the truth in the truest sense of what that means." mean?A2: That which satisfies in total the essence of reality.
What is "the total essence of reality?
Q3: What is "the reality that all is contingent on?"A3: GodQ5: What is the "fundamental power to all reality"?A5: God
I'm not asking what your call or label it, I'm asking what it is (without you going in circles). Telling me it's name doesn't tell me what it is.
Q4: Why is it stupid to not believe in a "supreme, final, and fundamental power in all reality"A4: Because if you don't believe in this you don't really believe in reality at all.
Only if I accept the premise that reality depends on some "supreme, final, and fundamental power." I don't accept that premise. Why is that stupid?
Q6: Why does the lack of a "fundamental power to all reality" mean there could be no reality?A6: Because this is what makes anything reality at all.
How so?
Q7: What does it mean for "The Ultimate Reality" to have "all authority."A7: It is the determiner of all things. Nothing can overthrow it.
Ok, good.
Q8: How does "The Truth" relate to "The Ultimate Reality?" Are they synonyms? Different phrases that mean the exact same thing?A8: In the context of what I am saying, yes.
This helps, but there are two different questions here. Synonyms mean something similar, but not necessarily the exact same thing. So which is it. Are they similar or are they exact?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Well I am well traveled, certainly - among populated towns and civilized areas! I don't think I would get much of an audience in an abandoned town and mansion. Within this valley I have found a nice home here (for the time being). Outside I have traveled far and wide. Elf lands and dwarf lands and beyond!
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Rictavio: This is my first year here myself, so I cannot speak from experience. From what I understand, this town is rife with such festivals: one every few weeks, yes, Urwin? Well, a performer such as myself, I could not avoid such an opportunity (not to mention a steady line of work). Each festival is different, too! The last one was... what... the Wolf's Head Jamboree? From the descriptions I have heard, it involved lots of play acting the hunting of wolves, marching around with wolf heads on pikes. I think Szoldar and Yevgeni even gave a live skinning and carving demonstration (live in that they performed it before a live audience, not that the wolf was live!)
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[Snerp Deception Check: d20 (2) + 4 = 6]
Rictavio gives a small nod to Urwin who darts back into the kitchen and comes out with a hot mug of coffee for Snerp.
Rictavio: Free of charge, for a colleague, of course! I am more... self educated. A carnival ringmaster and story teller rather than a musician or actor. I regale people by spinning and weaving threads of plot, constructing entire worlds for them to get lost in. As unbelievable as my words may seem I assert that every story I've told is true! True I say! At this Urwin chuckles and shakes his head.
Urwin: Da, true. Like the story of the goblin with two heads?
Rictavio: "Conjoined" my good man. Two whole goblins bound together at the hip! One of my best acts!
Urwin merely laughs and turns to Snerp: Hunters should be here shortly. Early for them might not be early for you, da?
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@Buddamoose
(I just pulled it from it's real-world etymology. There is no deeper hidden secret here. It was just a throwaway to indicate that the man is well traveled)
[Snerp Insight Check: d20 (4) + 2 = 6]
It seems like this Rictavio fell is on the up-and-up, if a bit boisterous.
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@Mopac
Cool. While we're talking:
1. How does The Truth differ from a truth?
2. What does "The Truth is the truth in the truest sense of what that means." mean?
3. What is "the reality that all is contingent on?"
4. Why is it stupid to not believe in a "supreme, final, and fundamental power in all reality"
5. What is the "fundamental power to all reality"?
6. Why does the lack of a "fundamental power to all reality" mean there could be no reality?
7. What does it mean for "The Ultimate Reality" to have "all authority."
8. How does "The Truth" relate to "The Ultimate Reality?" Are they synonyms? Different phrases that mean the exact same thing?
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@Mopac
It is less admirable to claim it is stupid to adhere to concepts you can't fully explain yourself.
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@Mopac
If you think it requires a miracle to plainly and simply explain your beliefs, then perhaps this is not the right line of work for you. I cannot plainly and simply explain how a car works and, lo and behold, I am not a mechanic.
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The man behind the bar smiles.
Man: Ah, you must be the small one my wife was talking about. I am pleased to have you with us. I am Urwin, me and my wife own this establishment. Could I interest you in some morning refreshment? Rictavio here has brought with him some exotic drink... what do you call it, cyoffee?
Rictavio: Ah, my good man. It is called coffee! Qhawah, in it's original dialect.
Rictavio turns to Snerp and the others and bows deep, flourishing his hat in an exaggerated manner. Pleased to make your acquaintance, sir gnome! I can easily spot a member of the same craft as I. It seems you and your troupe of exotic races have joined this fair town for its Festival of the Blazing Sun?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
(I wasn't making specific commentary, just that that is a useful link to have in general. Also, you found the book at the crossroads already)
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@secularmerlin
@Earth
@kindertina
(Good catch)
@Earth, you get 4 spells from your list (Level 1)
@kinder, you get 6 spells from your spellbook (listed in the features of your character sheet)
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@Castin
I think there should be minimal interpretation. I would prefer moderation that is less a group of individuals implementing a broad philosophical framework and more along the lines of human robots implementing a concise set of rules (and only because AI isn't developed enough to do it automatically.)
Based on the moderator's commentary and the CoC as written: it's completely pointless. The mods can decide or not decide that any behavior is in line with, or against the CoC, whether or not that behavior is explicitly permitted or disallowed by the CoC. It's all up to their discretion without appeal. In which case, why have a CoC? It literally doesn't matter.
I want a CoC that matters. Which means strict enforcement. Note that "strict enforcement" doesn't mean "strict moderation." It means the "strictness" of the moderation is dependent only upon the rules not the disposition of the moderator. Allah forbid that bsh1, Virtuoso, and Tej get hit by a trolley by some callous utilitarian and another group of moderators decide to step into their shoes, but have a drastically different style of moderation. There is nothing stopping that because, as a site, we've decided that this is Ok. That our moderation can be dictated solely be the mood of the moderators. We're ok with divesting great power in them because we've decided that they're ok guys and they're going to use it responsibly.
Nonsense. Power should be limited by statute not by the personalities of whoever is wielding it. Moderators should have absolutely 0 input in how the site should be moderated. They should only be implementing a predetermined set of rules, and nothing more.
Take note that forum and voting moderation is treated in completely opposite fashions. Forum commenters can get away with just about anything. You can curse, abuse, and explicitly violate the CoC and nothing (apparent) happens. It is all opaque and no one (other than the mods and possible violators) know if anything is even happening.
Compare that with voting which is very heavily scrutinized with a fine-toothed come, and moderator reactions are very public and explicit.
Why the two forms of moderation on the same site? Well, I have my opinions as to why votes are treated so preciously while forum comments are an afterthought, but that's irrelevant. The point is, there should be a single moderation style. Or, if we want different moderation styles for different aspects of the site, have a different set of rules and moderators implementing each.
EDIT: Additionally, I think there is something to be said that the people who make up the moderation team should be separate and distinct from the people who make up the Code of Conduct. By having them be the same people, you end up with a group that has an emotionally vested interest in the rules as intended rather than rules as written and a propensity to ignore mistakes in moderation which inevitable leads to moderator abuse.
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The group heads down the hallway and down the stairs outside the Inn, then dips back into the main tavern area. This early in the morning, the tap room is empty save for two people: a somewhat husky older man behind the bar, who is chatting quietly with a flamboyantly dressed half-elf.
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(FYI, here is a link to the fortune telling page.
Might be worth it to book mark it)
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(Long rest)
Day 4 (2 Days until the Festival)Morning
Player Summaries:
✶Eikka - 31/31 HP - 16 AC - Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Relentless Endurance: ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|3
Grahf - 36/36 HP - 16 AC - Breath Weapon: ⬤ | Divine Sense: 3 | Channel Divinity: ⬤ | Lay on Hands: 20 | Spell Slots: 3
Luraxt - 22/22 HP - 13 AC - Arcane Recovery ⬤ | Spell Secrets ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|3
✶Roberts - 36/36 HP - 18 AC - Action Surge: ⬤ | Second Wind ⬤ | Spell Slots: 3
✶Snerp - 23/23 HP - 13 AC - Bardic Inspiration: ⬤⬤ | Feather Fall ⬤ | Spell Slots: 4|3
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The realest truest most existiest reality there is.Questions answered?
No. I don't know what that is. To me, reality is simply all of the matter and energy that make up the physical universe. "The Ultimate Reality" is more than that. I want to know what that "more" part is.
If not, me answering these questions won't help.You, after all, admit that the words I'm using are placeholders to you.
Uh, yeah, to me. Because I don't know what you mean by them. So I'm asking you. How can you answering these questions not help me in getting your answers to these questions? You're not making any sense.
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@Mopac
You want some type of knowledge I can't give you, sorry. Perhaps you should get over your aversion to the unknown.
Wait... my desire for knowledge I don't have means... I have an aversion to knowledge I don't have?
Maybe it would help if you contemplated what the words I'm telling you mean instead of taking them to be arbitrary and meaningless placeholders. I can't think for you.
You can, however, explain what you mean using simple and accessible language instead of hopping from one arbitrary and meaningless placeholder to another.
1. How does The Truth differ from a truth?
2. What does "The Truth is the truth in the truest sense of what that means." mean?
3. What is "the reality that all is contingent on?"
4. Why is it stupid to not believe in a "supreme, final, and fundamental power in all reality"
5. What is the "fundamental power to all reality"?
6. Why does the lack of a "fundamental power to all reality" mean there could be no reality?
7. What does it mean for "The Ultimate Reality" to have "all authority."
8. How does "The Truth" relate to "The Ultimate Reality?" Are they synonyms? Different phrases that mean the exact same thing?
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