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@ILikePie5
Is that the only reason you scumread him? POE?
No I literally just said I thought he was scummy for publically guessing at claims, and I said that in my read list in dp1... I put him as an overall null read because I didn't know if that was a behavior he would do as town as well, but it rubbed me the wrong way when he did it.
I’m not using it against you. I’m just saying, you scumread Mikal and Whiteflame and then Savant as well apparently. Not all of that can be true
I was waning off whiteflame towards the end of the dp1, as he answered for me more clearly why he thought earths claim was safe while also agreeing with you that it was obscure enough it had to be the mod provided claim if not true. I didn't understand how he was coming to the conlcusion that it would be sagfe, until he explained that CC's happen a lot so the claim qualified as "safe" because he was less likely to be CC'ed.
I already responded to this. It can only be Joe Rogan or Howie Mandel. The latter is not as well known as the former. The others cannot be Casey’s host because the shows are pre-2000 when Casey claimed post-2000
Those are all pretty well known names actually, you can't just selectively dismiss them for no reason. The only one you can eliminate based on time frame issues is Bob Barker. But even then I was literally the first person to claim post 2000 so you can't ignore the fact that if you think I was scum then I already had a fake claim locked in, considering wylted used no fake claim, then I would have had to use the fake claim the mod provided, or was being honest. But it can't be both that I was using the mod given fake claim AND caseys claim.
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I was literally the first person to soft something about my character, so you can argue that I already had a claim locked in from the mod, or you can argue that I took caseys, but you can't argue both. The other side of the coin is that I am actually being honest about my character. It's ironic that the one game I barely volunteer information about my role is the one where its used against me the most as a scum tell for offering the very little in which I did (Mikal) and also a point of hurt because if I had claimed my show early on this wouldn't even be an argument from pie. I have arguments pointed at me that say im scummy either way, and it really makes no sense!
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
Also the point about caseys hint is really such a bad argument, I have already pointed out there are several other hosts that casey could have been talking about. Drew Carrie (Moozers show), Steve Harvey (Austins show), Howie Mendel (Savants show), and Bob Barker (Mharmans show) all are people I think are widely considered big recognizable celebrity names. I don't know why you are hyper focused on mine being the only one that fits that category.
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@ILikePie5
My read on wylted was null because he really didn't contribute much, but it might as well have been a scum tell because other than mikal and a light read on austin and wwhiteflame I had basically everyone else as town at the time. And I specifically pointed out him calling out characters in my read, I did that specifically because he was calling out fear factor. I wasn't around at the end of the day phase to press him so its hardly fair to use that against me. Wylted was in my POE before most people were really considering him.
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Anyways I am going to be busy for a bit today. Tag me if I am needed for something, I get an email everytime someone @'s me, otherwise I might not check on this until later tonight.
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@Mikal
Agree with you or scum got it. Logic good
You are actually a child. Maybe I'll start talking to you like one if thats how you are going to act.
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@Mikal
if everyone else agrees they see logic in what I’m saying and understand why I’m saying it and you are literally the only one who disagrees, that may be a you problem. I am not going to go back and re type and retype and run in circles over my thoughts. They are there to read
Its not "everyone" thought thats the point. Its the select few that happen to have the time and availability to drown out the other voices. Again its funny that you are so quick to use ad populum now, when last day phase you were quick to use the opposite card "No one is agreeing with me thus my read has to be true". You pick the safest lane each time to justify your position.
and also yes. Earth claiming he got the town item and not getting cced is enough of a reason not to sus him for now. Could he be mafia and have the mafia item sure. If he uses it he’s dead. So more pressing issues like Poe and whiteflame. Game dynamics change, go figure.
Thank god earth happens to be good at trivia, other wise you would have one more mislynch lined up.
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@Savant
Everyone Mikal has pushed for is well within PoE. How do you know for certain that Mharman and whiteflame are mislynch targets? Even if you are innocent and thus know you are a mislynch target, I know that I'm a mislynch target, so I could accuse you of the same thing.
I can read the room. If you notice, the most active players seem to be dominating most of the discussion. You, pie, mikal etc. And I disagree that you are really a mislynch target, most people seem to have you in their town pools. Mharman wasn't a mislynch target until today. Also mislynch suggest I know the person is town, which I don't, but I am noticing trends, 'activity bullying' is one. Its crazy to me that neither you pie nor mikal have even role claimed but are the ones leading the day phase for example and dominating the discussion of who to lynch, how to vote, etc.
From your seat its easy to throw suspicion on someone who has claimed, for example trying to spin mharmans role as a slip with the oracle, when you yourself haven't even claimed yet.. Same goes for mikal and pie. I do think pie is town so he's the only one I am giving a pass to, and mainly because he also saw through mikals guise last day phase and pointed out that he was pushing "easy" targets.
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@Savant
There's a difference between being focused on a player you're trying to lynch (what Mikal did) and being focused on a single reason to lynch a player (what you're doing now). The latter isn't always scummy, but it's not usually convincing.
The entire reason I suspect mikal is that he is pushing for mislynch targets, and he is using his activity as town cred to blatantly manipulate people into thinking hes got to be town because there is no way scum would be this active right? But if you actually read what he says, the arguments he has really don't make a lot of sense. I don't understand how he gets away with it really. The same thing applies to his whiteflame lynch, which really also makes no sense. He is a smart person capable of logic, so when he used bad logic this should be a red flag to people. I am very surprised he is not to more people than just me.
Furthermore, Earth is still alive, and Mikal hasn't been trying to push him.
If earth didn't win that cop ability last day phase, I guarantee you he would still be pushing him. Now it is blatantly scummy for him to push earth. Him backing off earth suddenly after earth is has a good reason to be town now should be a warning sign to you. It shows that behavior wasn't ever really taken into account like he is pretending it was.
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@Savant
The reason your reads haven't caught on is that you've been hyperfocusing on a single point (willingness to vote Earth), which isn't even a scummy thing, since Earth was in PoE yesterday.
I don't think I was hyperfocused on earth, Mikal was, and was actively trying to push his lynch, and I still don't think the reasons were very good. Basically that he was "scummy" and "defensive" and I honestly thought he looked less so than in other games I've seen him in, and plus his claim was very very solid. Earth became the hyperfocus of last day phase for poor reasons, so I was looking into anyone who seemed to agree with those reasons as a good reason to lynch him because that was obviously scums goal for a mislynch dp1.
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@Mikal
I would post a crying emoji if I could.All wifom
Everything you've ever said this ENTIRE game has been wifom. I don't know why no one else calls you out on it.
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Also whiteflame has to be town. He was scum reading me last day phase, it makes no sense for him to suddenly just come out and confirm my results like that if he was mafia. I really don't advise we lynch him.
I don't know how to proceed this game, because the main person I want to lynch is mikal, and it seems no one else is willing to consider him an option, we are even giving him a free item to use against us if he is scum. I don't know who to push in absence of mikal. I still town read mharman. If I had to guess who mikals partner is, at this point I would have to say I am leaning savant despite thinking his behavior was townie day phase one. His willingness to lynch earth dp1 alongside mikal, and his wanting to lynch me based on activity when this is actually the most active I've ever been in a mafia game reeks of the same thing he is accusing me of, "Opportunistic".
You will just say that im "omgusing" but I have been suspecting savant a bit since last day phase, so its really not. But you will say it anyway. Who cares.
I so obviously in the minority with my reads that it almost doesn't even matter at this point.
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@Savant
I think banana is who I want to ultimately lynch today. I like whiteflame's reads and attitude. I also think Mharman made a lot of fair points. But I feel like not posting for this long is a bit opportunistic, like banana is hoping the attention will move off her.
It's frustrating that you feel this way. This is the most active I have ever been in a mafia game. I didn't post for one evening in this game because I had irl things going on and you say its oppertunistic, when theres been many games where I maybe only post once or twice a day phase. I am trying my best to be active here, and its still not enough. I would not have signed up for this game if I knew it would be so high paced, but I am actively trying my best to be as active as I can.
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I will say, I really, really don't like that we are taking mikal for his word here. I will vote him to comply with town, but this is such a red flag.
But my vote will be:
1st: Mikal
2nd: Earth
3rd: Mharman
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@ILikePie5
What was the guess you made regarding the trivia yesterday?
I just submitted day cop, because I don't know many roles. I've never seen or even heard of a sensor.
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Hey guys, im still here. I am having difficulty keeping up with this game, I will try to catch up, but this is becoming exhausting to keep up with. I didn't expect the activity to be this high paced, or I probably wouldn't have signed up.
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@ILikePie5
Pie this is what I said in post 606 in my reads of dp1:
"The one thing I will say about wylted that I don't like is him openly speculating about roles and characters that could exist in the game. I feel like he is an experienced enough player to know that is not beneficial."
The whole reason I said that was because wylted was openly talking about my character like that.
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Is there any reasons not to get the last three claims? Mikal, savant and pie are the last to claim. Id be okay with pie going last as he seems towniest, but Id really like mikals claim in particular.
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Both austin and moozer seem town to me, I don't see why anyone would lie here. I think it's likely that lunatic just messed up, I am not going to place too much stock in that counter claim argument.
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@ILikePie5
There are a lot of famous tv hosts, Bob Barker, Drew Carrie, Howie Mandell, etc. I think any of those would apply to "famous host you all know" just as well.
Also why do you think I was mad that wylted was talking about characters publicly? I literally pointed out that this was a scum tell for him because he specifically mentioned my character...
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@ILikePie5
I am telling the truth. I don't understand why you would vote me.
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Well since mharman claimed already I will go ahead and claim.
I am Fear Factor, since the show is about facing fears I am the Brave Townie. I can target a person each night, if that person is scum I am immune to the night kill that night. Last night I was going to target mikal, but changed my mind to savant last minute after having some doubts about his motivations in lynching earth that I couldn't get out of my head.
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@ILikePie5
Banana & Savant are the only 2 who can use Casey’s character and role claim that scum Janitored.
A few points to make here: I was the first to suggest locking scum into fake claims, so I had to have either had my fake claim ready from the beginning (or used the free fake claim).
Secondly, scum could have claimed already.
Thirdly they could mix and match roles and characters from the provided / janitored claim, etc.
Anyways if you want me to claim I can, but I just want to point out that there are other things that can effect who used the janitor claim and how it was used. We don't know all the answers.
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@Savant
You realize I was the first vote on WyIted and a played a significant part in getting him lynched?
I am not saying you weren't. Again I still mostly town read you, I just was having a few second thoughts after reading the earth willingness.
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@AustinL0926
Agree, we can decide that after we figure out who to give the prize to. Right now, I'm thinking Moozer is the best choice.What's your POE looking like right now?
I guess right now my two strongest reads would be mikal and whiteflame, and I do still town read savant but I didn't like how willing he was to participate on the earth lynch last day phase, so I don't full on scum read him, I am a little hesitant to clear him. I am willing to take you out of the POE for now since this plan doesn't seem like it could benefit scum at all, and I don't see why you would reccomend it as scum. Pie is town, he basically led the wylted lynch. Not sure on mharman, I still town read him behaviorally, but he could be scum too. Moozer and earth are hard town to me.
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@AustinL0926
Thats... Thats actually a really clever plan. I will throw you some town cred for that. If we do this, we should make a detailed list telling everyone clearly how to submit their votes according to this method, so that way there isn't any risk of people claiming mistakes or confusion.
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@Savant
Because it matters whether or not someone is 100% confirmed.
We can't know either way so...
Ok, how were we supposed to know that Earth was town yesterday though? Today he looks pretty towny, but this is obvious hindsight bias. When it was Earth vs. WyIted it was a bigger deal, but just having Earth in PoE after he claimed soldier? That's not really scummy.
The case against earth was really bad, so why lynch him in the first place? He had a role that fits the character very well. Only reason he would be scum is if he got the fake claim from lunatic, but other than that there wasn't a good reason for people to sus him, and many were bandwagoning mikal. Austin even admitted he was copying mikal. So I would not want those two anywhere near a list where they could get a prize but thats just me.
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@Savant
Because it matters whether or not someone is 100% confirmed.
We can't know either way so...
Ok, how were we supposed to know that Earth was town yesterday though? Today he looks pretty towny, but this is obvious hindsight bias. When it was Earth vs. WyIted it was a bigger deal, but just having Earth in PoE after he claimed soldier? That's not really scummy.
The case against earth was really bad, so why lynch him in the first place? He had a role that fits the character very well. Only reason he would be scum is if he got the fake claim from lunatic, but other than that there wasn't a good reason for people to sus him, and many were bandwagoning mikal. Austin even admitted he was copying mikal. So I would not want those two anywhere near a list where they could get a prize but thats just me.
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@Mharman
Where did Pie say he is the cop?
Huh? No EARTH is the cop. or he won the trivia for the 1x that is
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@Savant
Earth could be scum and lying about using the cop. I think he's telling the truth, but he's not confirmed.
if you think he's telling the truth why even bring this up
You realize I also demanded that WyIted claim, right? And Austin's role is confirmable?I might actually switch out Mikal for Earth, give me a bit to fidget with the probabilities.
I do town read you despite the willingness to lynch earth, but I am not that certain with the other two. And austin himself said he has seen his role on both sides, so idk about it being confirmable meaning anything.
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@Savant
1. Savant, 2. Austin, 3. Mikal
Not a fan of this list. All three of these people were willing to vote earth last day phase, if wylted wasn't forced to claim by pie, he would have been chopped, and he is our cop.
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@Earth
Looks like I missed the end of the crazy dp last night, but for the record, I did scum read wylted, so glad you guys made the right decision. Also I figured you were town earth, glad you got the cop!
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@ILikePie5
Pick out of Wylted, WF, Mharman for the last claim
If I had to pick out of these three, it would be whiteflame because he is doesn't have a hard line stance and I suspect him of being willing to jump on one of the "easy lynch" bandwagons. Wylted might be second for me. I kind of town read mharman though.
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@AustinL0926
I don't see this as being AI for Austin in particular; he often uses a lot of self-analysis in his posts, both as town and as mafia.Maybe you are right, but I would have just assumed all that stuff as true if he didn't point it out, so that's the only reason I thought it was odd.Like... it's shifting a NAI thing at best into potential scum? Idk, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it feels like a contradiction. Banana, could you explain your reasoning here?
Like all those things you pointed out you wouldn't do as scum, seem kind of obvious to me. Like you not initially knowing there was 3 scum, I saw that and was like "thats a town slip", until you brought attention to it, then I had to second guess and be like "Maybe he knew the whole time, but was acting dumb about it to make it look like a town slip". If that makes sense. Then I started noticing you had done that a couple other times before that, and it just set off a little red flag.
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@AustinL0926
Not sure what to make of banana's reasoning on me; me making self-analysis is NAI by itself, but the thing is, even if my analysis isn't necessarily reliable, that doesn't really invalidate my posts that are being analyzed in the first place.Phrased that kinda poorly so: I can understand her being hesitant on her read on me; but I would trust it more if she gave an independent attempt to townread my posts, whereas right now, her read comes down to:
I did say I was reading you as town absent of those posts though.
So it feels like I'm just in POE despite her not really having read me (implied by saying I'm not a scum read, i.e. I am a scum read to some extent); and it can't be for the self-analysis itself, because other people have said it's NAI
Im not other people, just because it didn't stick out to them doesn't mean it isn't something to think about. But I am not hard scumreading you over it either, I just would have seen those things you pointed out already, so you bringing attention to them just made me question the authenticity. Maybe I am wrong here.
and I don't really like how she just ignores my role; even if it *can* be scum, it's still town the majority of the time. Feels kinda hedgy.
Other than some of the common roles I've seen game to game, I don't know a lot about mafia roles yet. All I have to go on is you saying that you've seen this role on both sides.
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@Moozer325
Okay, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying in some respect.Why is Austin in your PoE though, he claimed gladiator which is a confirmable role?
"Austin has come in recently and made some really big posts, at first I was liking it. But the one thing I think is holding me back from town reading him is that it feels like he is selling his own towniness a little too hard. "I would have consulted my scum team, I wouldn't need to catch up, see I am town!" or "I didn't read the OP, see if I was scum I would already know there was 3 scum!", etc etc. He's done that a few too many times for my comfort level, and hes obviously experienced and smart enough to know that stuff would look good for him, so why even bring attention to it? In fact I might have bought him as town for all those reasons anyway, if he hadn't personally brought them up himself. Anyways I wanted to put him as a town lean, but thats the main issue I have with him for the time being."
Also a role being confirmable doesnt mean he is town. Anyways, hes not a strong scum read, but I did feel he was overselling his towniness a bit too far.
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@Moozer325
I get that he's pretty relentless with the same argument, but you wanted him to back off on the ground that you know you are town. I understand the first part, but then you use the worst justification for wanting him to back off.
I dis-agree.
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@Casey_Risk
I wanna ask both of you a question. Assume, just for a moment, that both of you are town and Earth is also town. Who would your top scumread be in this scenario?
My problem is I am town reading a lot of the active players. My read list had whiteflame, austin, wylted as potential scum, wylted being more null, but for trying to get people to out character information, austin for "I have to be town, I wouldnt do x and x otherwise" and whiteflame for positioning himself to bandwagon off of mikal. But admittedly multiple people are doing that now, so I can't really hold whiteflame more accountable for that than others. These are players I don't neccesarily want more information from, but would be willing to lynch. If there are any common demoninators here in this group of people that people are willing to lynch, I would support it. I don't know if I can get behind an earth lynch.
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@Moozer325
Meant to include my response to you in that last post. It's the worst possible defense a town player can make essentially. Everyone "knows" that they are town, but the rest of us don't know that. I can make the same defense now by saying "I know I'm town, so don't lynch me!"
I didn't say that. I said that its a waste of time having to constantly defend myself against him when he's barraging me with paragraphs of posts repeating the same thing, "OMGUS!", and "Town cred!" The argument hasn't changed, and meanwhile its taking time from solving the game with other people and pressuring other roads.
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@Mikal
When I am at my computer I can flip back. I am not reading old dayphases or even old posts in this ok my phone. To much of a pita.
You've been saying this for ages now, you aren't going to do it. So might as well just take the words of people saying this is a thing.
Off memory I believe whiteflame, Moozer and Casey have all said your recent posts and logic revolve around our interactions or you are just typing fluff and hyper fixating on my initial read.
I am not denying that a lot of my reads are based on people and their interactions with you. You are my strongest scum read, so how people treat you and react to you is extremely important in determining who your team is. No one is agreeing with your logic on your original reads though.
I am saying at the time of you saying I was going for easy lynches, I was the only one scum reading you and the more you have continued to post. The more illogical some of your reads come off and people have been picking up on that as well.
They didn't say they were illogical, just pointed out they were based around you, which I happily admit. Again if you are scum like I think you are, its important to judge your interactions with others to find your team.
Early on as in as very soon after you posted that and even before anyone mentioned it. It stuck out to me.
You found something to double down even more on, congratulations, more proof that your reads don't evolve or change when you think you have an easy mislynch in sight.
You are mad I’m scum reading you
lol you are projecting. Calling you out for bad reads doesn't mean I am mad about them. I am actually happy that I have a lead to go off of so thankyou.
And framing your reads of other people off how they perceive you, perceive me, or based on my reads of those people.
Thats literally how you scum hunt.
Omgus by definition because you are literally looking reasons to support your confirmation bias because I scum read you.
Talking about confirmation bias when your me and earth have been in every scum list of every read list you've posted is kind of hilariously hypocritical.
If you think it’s bad logic that’s fine. I disagree. I am correct that scum do what you did to farm town cred. The only varying factor on that is if it’s actually a meta on site which I have acknowledged at this point that if it is, it could be NAI. I have also said you are a gut read for me.
So you have time to write paragraphs to me, but don't have time to check one thread for 5 seconds to see if a meta exists or not. Interesting use of your time. It's like you are delaying purposely so you can keep me in your confirmation bias.
You are in fact doing that. You basically said he just needs to claim. I keep saying whoever we make claim needs to die off behavior. Having a claim just for the sake of a claim is not helping us because we are giving scum more info.
So if you read a cop scum behaviorally, your going to lynch him because we dont want to give scum more info?
That is not an excuse just to make someone claim. I have said we need to pick a target and focus on it. You are not giving a reason why you want moozer to die. You are saying he just needs to claim. That’s dumb.
I want to cross moozer off the list, the same way we have for austin. We can't do that if we are constantly waiting for him to post.
To add to that. You are saying Moozer needs to claim to claim in the sense of. Austin did so he should to. Wylted was either trying to force a scum slip and catch Austin off guard or is scum and was being opportunistic.
How are you able to speak for wylteds intentions? And even if you are correct why would that logic apply to austin and not moozer when both were equally inactive?
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@Mikal
I don’t think it’s a bad read I still think it felt like you were framing town credit. I already conceded to Casey this may be some weird site meta (I also have to check this later) but it just felt wrong.
You can literally verify this meta in 2 seconds by checking dp1 one of literally any of the recent games. Black ops was an exception because someone mentioned it wouldn't work for that theme for some reason.
Past that you are defensive as all hell. It’s like you are offended i am scum reading you and hyper focusing on me when other people are pointing out the same inconsistencies.
Defensive? I am just pointing out bad logic. Also name one other person who is "pointing out the same inconsistencies" weren't you just trying to use the argument that no one else was agreeing with you on your read? You can't have it both ways. You want to use ad populum fallacy, or play the victim that no one is agreeing with you which means your argument is more correct? Pick a lane buddy.
I notated very early on that I thought it was super weird you town read Moozer just because he was defending you (now your voting him or pushing him for a claim?)
What do you mean early on? I literally didn't put a read list up until late last night, and my vote was on moozer since the beginning of the day phase...Why are you blatantly lying now?
Your read on earth is largely based on my perception of him. It’s not a lazy analysis. It’s literal omgus which again is not AI.
I am not earth, so how is my defense of earth remotely related to the word omgus? See what I mean how you are just throwing out this word like it means something? It's a talking point, but you don't even seem to understand it since you are clearly using it incorrectly.
But just hyper fixating and basing a a majority of your reads on me all because I found your initial post as farming town cred is odd.
I am going to call bad logic out when I see it. You don't get an excuse because I have seen you make posts that use great logic, so I am left with the conclusion that you are doing this against people you think are easy to paint as mislynch targets. Pie pointed out the same thing, you aren't accusing him of being scummy for it lol.
You do realizing forcing claims just to force them is bad right?
I am not doing that. Moozer was absent most of the day phase, same with austin. At some point he will be the focus and if you wanna wait two and a half days in day phase 2 for him to finally claim, rather than getting it out of the way now, thats on you. Austin was forced to claim and he was just as inactive as moozer. It seems fair moozer would be held to the same standard.
Whoever we push this time needs to be who we kill unless there is some overwhelming claim that makes it logical not to do so. We can’t keep giving up free information.
Except we are no where near coming to a conclusion on who to lynch yet, you being absolutely unwilling to change your dumb reads is part of the problem.
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