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@FLRW
that's just how many atoms there are. just think how many combinations and arrangements of all the atoms there could be. it'd be off the scale.
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It looks like it boils down to a Lotta ignorance and knee jerk reactions from libs
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i see slogans like 'free palestine' from libs? free them from what? are they being deprived their rights? maybe i'm not fairly characterizing these libs but i just dont understand taking positions like 'pro palestine'. is 'pro palestine' just a way to say 'they deserve a seat at the table'? if that's all it is, it's merely posturing to say 'pro paelstine', cause that's what the large majority of folks already say.
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this is a land dispute. land disputes go back as long as life came to earth. it's not clear who should have the right to what. but it's generally good to negotiate with each other and live in peace. that's why palestine and israel should live in peace, and a two state solution is ideal.... except to say, israel shouldn't have to deal with terrorists killing them. why are liberals defending hamas? or is it just palestine that they are defending? dems like to call out conservatives for antisemite behavior from conservatives... but it's actually mostly coming from the dem base. even if those libs aren't pro hamas and are only pro palestine... what's up with that? no one is right in a land dispute like this, except it's always fair to defend ourselves like israel is doing.
i dont know much about this dispute... and am open to new persepctives/info, but this is the way i see it from my limited perspective.
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@Best.Korea
I'm an instigator, .380 slug penetrator
Degradin', creatin' murders to kill haters
Accused for every crime known through the equator
They knew I did it for havin' blood on my 'gators
My weed'll hit your chest like a double barrel gauge and I'm a black grenade that'll blow up in yo' face
With a fifth in me, when I guzzle Remy, I do shit on purpose
You never hear me say, “Forgive me”
I'm snatchin' every penny, it gotta be that way, nigga, face it
That weed I sold to you, Brigade laced it
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@Best.Korea
No doubt, sat back on the couch
Pants down, rubber on, set to turn that ass out
Laid the bitch out, then I put it in her mouth
Pulled out, nutted on a towel and passed out
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@Best.Korea
an atheist that's polytheist is a contradiction in terms. it's clear that you are very confused and going down a dark road that you need to stop going down.
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@Best.Korea
to me, your position on human sex with animals, is a natural consequence of giving up on God.
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@Best.Korea
"I am pretty sure that person having sex with an animal isnt something I would consider bad." -Best.Korea
you heard it here folks!
you should start a thread to defend that position... would be amusing to watch folks come outta the wood works to argue with ya.
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@Best.Korea
are you pro or anti sex with animals? the road you've been goin down lately, i wouldn't be surprised either way.
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@Best.Korea
an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth? although to be fair... that used to be God's rule, in the old testament.
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most christians have like a 'marriage' with jesus. they have a relationship. what's the threshhold of a marriage? at its minimum, it's hard to define. but as a functional phenomenon, it's a living faith and complete.
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i do acknowledge that it's dangerous to let facists like trump in power... and it's stupid of voters to support him and think this way, but many of them probably dont take what trump says or does seriously. the loosely support him, and otherwise think of him as 'crazy uncle don', like a crazy uncle.
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If you don't include hard science and math, you are probably just talking out your ass. Yes a Lotta truth is obtained that way, but that's not where the real work is
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It's tempting to think half the country is just nuts. I think if we're about to make an assumption that big, we gotta be careful
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@Double_R
I would say a half of conservatives want another pick than trump. Plus a lot who support him in the primary r prob only doing it as a strategy and not actually their first pick. Another quarter think he sucks as a person but effective at the job and they agree on the issues. Another quarter think he can do no wrong and r brainwashed. Does this sound about right to you? We gotta consider that a Lotta folks r apolitical, so if u really break down how many folks make up those portions, I wouldn't say the country is as crazy as you might think. But yea Maybe 1 in 5 people need a swift kick in the butt and 1 in 10 r deluded
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@Double_R
You have a tendency in these trump bashing threads to overlook that a lot of his supporters largely agree with him on substantive conservative issues. You r very good at giving non substantive reasons to be against him, but many of his supporters just value the issues and r willing to overlook his bad qualities. Then there's the conservatives who want an alternative to trump but r willing to vote for him anyway if need be. It's not common for trumpeters to acknowlege he's an authoritarian and sucks as a person and still vote for him enthusiastically... the types to admit all that vote reluctantly for their own non sucky to them reasons
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@Double_R
so would you agree with the conclusion that half the country is either stupid, ignorant, or engaging in cognitive dissonance? if there's more to that half of the population, how would you describe the rest of trump supporters?
i would think there are some conservatives who dont like voting for democrats, and trump is the one standing out to throw their support behind. wouldn't quite call that cognitive dissonance, as long as they are wiilling to admit trump is a terrible person. there are plenty of trumpsters who vote for him despite acknowledging that he sucks.
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i dont have enough faith to be an atheist
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@Double_R
do you think there are reasonable trump supporters out there? can't half the country be crazy? or they are reasonable despite the fact they support trump? or maybe like nazi germany moved a whole country off the cliff, trump has led half the country off the cliff?
how would you characterize all this?
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this site needs more trump supporters, or at least trump supporters who try to take politics seriously. i cant imagine half the country has gone crazy.... where are all the sane trump supporters to come here to defend trump and to defend their support of him?
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@Best.Korea
i dont believe in bodily autonomy... i believe in external influence or coercion.
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@Best.Korea
are you choosing not to reproduce as if you have a choice to begin with, or are women choosing for you?
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@Best.Korea
so you're sayin that you dont support the death penalty for women that have abortions?
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@SethBrown
you are over scrutinizing it. if a medical doctor says there's evidence for an afterlife, then we need to assume there's something to what he says. doctors are distinguished with smarts and science.
if we can establish that a soul exists, it follows that an afterlife probably exists too, given out of body experiences and afterlife experiences usually go together. i know you just said something like "it doesn't necessarily one thing prove the other" but you are being overly posturing yourself as if you dont think an afterlife would follow a soul being proven, when that's almost certainly not the case. you are engaging in truisms but your tone and the meaning of what you say is clear and flawed.
we can't prove that dead family members proves an afterlife. but it's at least evidence to begin with, cause we should be seeing more living nonrelatives and living relatives and dead nonrelatives, but we dont. it's possible people hallucinate dead family members, given so many were close to dead family. but if this is just a hallucination, why aren't people hallucinating taylor swift? why not their best friend that died when they were in elementary school? why not their living mother as a hallucination? not everyone was super close to dead family members so the 'people are often close to dead family' argument is weak.
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@SethBrown
you look open minded. you might like this thread. id say you look like an open minded christian, but i'm not sure if you are christian? you say things that indicate that you are, but also say things that show you are willing to doubt. if you are christian, you are open to truth as a general rule, and only accept jesus based on your best pursuit of truth, and not cause someone told you to.
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@SethBrown
there's also the possibility that we are dealing with the consequences of original sin, due to the fall of man. i agree with eastern christians, that we dont inherit sin, we inherit just the propensity to sin. but even just the propensity to sin, means that on this side of heaven, there is imperfection. near death experiences teach us that a purpose of life, is to experience separation.... the next life is about unity and oneness, but this life is about separation and imperfection.
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is it possible for there to be a purpose for suffering? yes. it can help us make progress to end suffering. we are co creators in that sense. it can give people the perspective to appreciate no suffering. as jesus said, the man wasn't born with health problems because of something him or his parents did, but to give glory to God when he's one day disease free.also, asking why we still have suffering is like asking why darkness exists. that's just the way it is. can we have just light? i dont think that is possible in our reality. same way, suffering may need to exist in this reality too.of course, a person can just insist that if it's possible for suffering not to exist but does, then it isn't necessary. a person could rationally cling to that principle, but they have to admit that they might be wrong if everything i say is true, and they need to admit that the alternative view that i present is completely realistic. What if God and heaven exist, and the reality is how i present it? then the skeptic is just clinging to philosophy that has no basis in reality. the words and thoughts, the pointless ramblings, of mere men.
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@SethBrown
It is different than the apostles just making up a story. Cult members in general don't think they r making anything up. But while the theory that Jesus led a cult doesn't address your proposed ideas in your opening post, the theory is still possible, isn't it, as a natural explanation?
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@SethBrown
so you asked for a naturalistic explanation for why the apostles did what they did, and i pointed out the cult theory. why doesn't the cult theory fit the definition of an adequate naturalistic answer? do you think cult members wouldn't make up seeing a resurrected cult leader?
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@SethBrown
if someone said that jesus was a cult leader what would you say?
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ancient historians note factually that the apostles died for their faith based on what they say they saw. usually people dont die for hoaxes.... yes sometimes fanatics might die for second hand testimony or for cults, but the apostles testimony was first hand. ancient historians dont know about all the apostles, but the core ones they do know, such as peter, paul, james, and john. ancient historians called jesus a magician based on his reputation for doing mystical things. both jewish and roman ancient historians made note that jesus existed. there's a consensus among modern historians that he existed. basically, there's compelling reasons to think there might be something to this jesus story. that's not looking at miracles, near death experiences, or just looking at the writings of the apostles philosophically... as jesus said, his sheep know his voice, the shepard.
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@Best.Korea
do you like being woke? i thought sane people knew that being woke is bad, given by definition woke means irrational about identity politics. i dont know why anyone would choose to say and think woke stuff
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the fact that half of murders are committed by black people, might help explain this. despite blacks being a small minority of the population.
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@Best.Korea
oh, so a person is now a psychopath if they call their newborn son a boy. gotcha.
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@Best.Korea
what movies have good guys torturing bad guys? im sure it's out there, but i question if it's as common as you are indicating.
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fun topic
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maybe bacon doesn't prove God.
maybe bacon IS God.
all hail bacon!
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@IlDiavolo
you have a very weak argument. "the placebo effect helps heal people. therefore all inexplicable healing of incurable diseases, are based on placebo or the mind". i saw two examples in your articles... someone's burn healing faster, someone's headache going away faster. those aren't considered incurable, only things healing faster than they otherwise would. what about what were thought to be incurable illnesses being cured? what about someone who has a damaged retina suddenly being able to see, or someone with Parkinson suddenly being disease free like we see with miracles of the saints? i will admit, it's possible these 'miracles' are only related to the brain, but you are making a really weak argument that that's the case. i should just uproot everything that has been established in the congregation for the causes of the saints and elsewhere over millennia, cause you posted some flimsy science on the placebo effect?
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@IlDiavolo
maybe simon the magician was a fraud. i am open to the possibility of dark magic, but it's not covered in much detail in the bible and we dont see it in every day modern life.
christians perform miracles to this day. the catholic church requires that for a saint to be canonized, there has to be three miracles that are inexplicable. there's lots of examples outside of the catholic church too, in christianity. there's barely any or questionable examples outside of christianity. i know you contested that point once, but it was a non sensical response so i didn't respond to you. if you want me to show the flaw in your reasoning, go ahead and argue your points.I'm taking issue with your arguments because you are stuck in the bible when it comes to find an explanation for the miracles, even when the bible doesn't give good reasons for explaining the phenomena, which is fine because it's based on a primitive mindset. We are in the 21st century, we need to find out what the fuck this is all about and I am incapable of buying what the bible try to sell us.
frankly this is a non sense answer. i'm making claims of things that look supernatural, happening in modern times. you then for some reason say i'm stuck in the bible and that we need modern principles to understand it. okay, the bible point is a non sequiter, i dont know why you are trying to paint my miracle argument with being stuck in the bible, as that's only loosely relevant. you should use modern science to refute what i say, but when it comes to that, in the past you always get into pseudo science or hearsay. i think it might help you to take a class in logic and reasoning.
this is a debate website, so sorry if i'm not full of love and affection. i truly do have a softer side. you came at me sideways, so i tried to set straight your insults.
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@IlDiavolo
are you saying there were reports from ancient historians of magic from nonchristians? or is this a contemporary thing? you need to cite something or add better context for me to accept your proposition.
christians perform miracles to this day. the catholic church requires that for a saint to be canonized, there has to be three miracles that are inexplicable. there's lots of examples outside of the catholic church too, in christianity. there's barely any or questionable examples outside of christianity. i know you contested that point once, but it was a non sensical response so i didn't respond to you. if you want me to show the flaw in your reasoning, go ahead and argue your points.
i dont know why you keep harping on the point. i read all day every day. with formal education im over educated, and even outside of formal education. im conversant on a wide range of complex topic, which is a sign of high intelligence. my scores on standardized tests and on aptitude tests show me to have a high IQ. are you insecure with yourself or something? i know i can be sloppy with my writing but the content of my posts illustrates knowledge and wisdom. i'm not gonna carefully craft everything i write for a stupid internet forum.
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@Stephen
it was just a figure of speech. jesus' point was that when someone dies, you have to move on with life, you can't dwell on the past. it's excellent wisdom.
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@Stephen
I think Jesus replied let the dead bury the dead. What is your point?
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@IlDiavolo
Jesus followers performed miracles in Jesus name. Even Jesus said that would and should happen. I think u r confused again
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@Best.Korea
For conservatives, it's always a conspiracy
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I miss the old days when the race was between a pedophile sympathizer and a kkk sympathizer
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@IlDiavolo
I think the passage in the gospels u r referring to is where a man was performing miracles in Jesus's name but wasn't following the apostles. Jesus said who ain't against him is for him and not to worry about the guy. My guess is you r mistaken
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@IlDiavolo
I have three honors degrees in engineering and science from competitive schools. Not just in formal education but otherwise I'm way over educated. The fact you think that makes me think that u r the uneducated one. Not calling myself genius, but there's a saying that genius mother Fuckers look like dumb mother Fuckers to people who r themselves dumb mother fuckers.
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@SkepticalOne
You know what modern historians don't attribute to historical figures? Magic. There's a good reason for that.
that looks like a deflection. ancient historicans did refer to him as a magician. whether or not modern historicians would seriously entertain magic is irrelevant. you can choose to ignore what ancient historians said, but at least state that you are choosing ignoring it.
someone who is willing to die for their faith, it bolsters what they say. i understand people die for their faith all the time, and some of those faiths are untrue.. but it's still indiciative of soemthing when someone dies for their faith.This is incoherent. You're agreeing with me AND suggesting dying for your beliefs points to factuality. You can't have it both ways.Clearly, death for beliefs has absolutely no relevance to the truth of those beliefs. There are countless examples of people dying for beliefs that we know to be absolutely bogus. (Heavensgate, Jonestown, etc.)
you misquote me and misunderstand me. if someone is willing to die for their faith, they probably have a good reason for why they'd make that sacrifice. sometimes people are just stupid, but that's the exception to the rule. and the part you didn't quote which is a stronger point, is that the apostles had first hand witness to the events, not just stupid fanatics who die for a random belief.
it seems far fetched that someone would happen to have a seizure when as far as we can tell, they were otherwise healthy, that just happens to lead to him being a central figure in the worlds most dominate religion.I don't think so. A seizure would explain the vision, the blindness, and the change of heart afterwards. It's certainly more plausible than the alternative.
i guess we just disagree. i dont think a one time event of a seizure makes the best explanation with all the other context, too big of a coincidence.
you haven't pin pointed a good motive in why they would lie about supernatural claims.I think maybe you didn't understand what I said. I didn't claim early believers were generally lying about Jesus. I said the opposite - early followers believed their testimony. That's not to say their testimony accurately reflected reality. Add to that legendary accretion as time passes and Jesus becomes more and more extraordinary. Again, we can see this occuring with modern figures. Who knows, in a thousand years, Elvis or Dwayne Johnson might be considered a deity.
you misquoted my later post where i acknowledged that even if they weren't lying, you dont explain why they'd be mistaken about the thing theyd die for. sure a mistake is possible, but you look like you just ignore trying to explain it. people generally dont make mistakes in that nature that cost their lives. you say it's possible that legend develops over time, but that speciic point is irrelevant as to explaining their mistake. i understand that is just an additional point you're making, though.
their first hand testimony and willingness to die for their faith is compelling.FYI, legendary accretion also applies to the apostles. The martyrdom of the apostles is a church tradition. There are multiple (and contradictory) martyrdom stories for some of the apostles - different churches have different death stories for their apostolic heroes.Furthermore, the gospels are not thought, at least not by critical scholars, to be eye-witness accounts. That is another 'church tradition' with questionable relation to reality.
do you think the willingness to die due their first hand accounts have anything to do with church tradition? i'm not sure what point you are trying to make. my understanding is that there are objective third party historicans who attest to the martyrdom of the apostles.
on a last point, you could make the argument about cults. was jesus a cult leader? it's an interesting idea. most people aren't stupid enough to fall for cult hucksters, and it isn't likely that histroicans would record the cult leader as a historical figure and record the deeds the cult leader are said to have performed. were other false messiahs recorded by historicans? i really dont know that answer. a cult, it's an interesting idea i hadn't really considered too much. so a cult leader that was followed by a seizure dude with all their followers writing profound spritiual letters? it seems far fetched, but i dunno.
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