oromagi

-->@oromagi

Do you, like, have a pathological aversion to original sources? Like? Am I debating a bot account right now?

All those articles did not give any ORIGINAL sources. They all, therefore, do not count as original sources.

I asked for primary sources. I think you need a refresher course in such a thing. Unless you can tell me which people were coted who had firsthand experience in the topic, then the news articles you sent me are not actually proving anything.

It's very simple, Oromagi. The burden of proof demands actual sources, not claims by news outlets, but actual evidence.

As far as what Oromagi said, what was the original source? Because from what I understand Flynn lied to Trump and that was why Trump ousted him. Flynn also received money from Russia, like tens of thousands of dollars in money from Russia. It could have been Trump had no idea this happened, or he knew and didn't care. Who knows. I need the original source.

• Flynn was paid more than $65,000 by companies connected to Russia in 2015, including $11,250 each from Volga-Dnepr Airlines and the U.S. subsidiary of Kaspersky Lab.  Other clients included Palo Alto Networks, Francisco Partners, Brainwave Science and Adobe Systems.
  

• Ten days before the inauguration of Donald Trump, Flynn told then-National Security Advisor Susan Rice not to proceed with a planned invasion of Raqqa using Kurdish People's Protection Units.
  

• Comey sends FBI agents to get Flynn on the record before the inauguration.  Flynn lies or says "don't know" about everything.  Comey goes to the AG, AG goes to Trump on Jan 27th and tells him that the top US Spy is lying about his secret interactions with the top Russian Spy.  
  
• Jan 30,  Trump fires AG
  
• Flynn spends his two weeks in office almost exclusively interested in Ukraine.  Russia delivers a "Ukraine Peace plan" which included overthrow of Ukrainian govt and surrender of east Ukraine and Black Sea  Coast to Russia, which Flynn gives to Trump on his last day in office.
  
• Trump continues to state that he has full confidence in Flynn, knowing that Flynn has lied to the FBI and Trump had covered up for him.
  
• On Feb 14th, Trump accepts Flynn's resignation stating that Flynn had lied to Pence, never mind that Trump could have told Pence the truth about Flynn's lies for three weeks.
  
• Trump pressures Sessions and Comey not to investigate Flynn and Russia.  Fires Comey when Comey flat out refuses to refrain from investigating.
  
• Flynn confirms some payments from Russia and Turkey in March and registers as a foreign agent.
  
• As the Hon Emmett Sullivan put it at Flynn's sentencing hearing
  
• "All along, you were an unregistered agent of a foreign country while serving as the national security advisor to the president of the United States,” Sullivan told Flynn, referring to the other case, for which Flynn was not charged. That undermines everything this flag over here stands for....you sold your country out  I’m not hiding my disgust, my disdain, Hypothetically could he have been charged with treason?”
  
• Trump pardoned Flynn 
  

How is it that you and I studied the same document and arrived at vastly different conclusions on it? 

90% of the intelligence reports surrounding the 2020 election are still classified,

for the sole purpose of registering voters likely to vote Democrat and also deliver ballots for people,

What we CAN claim is that Trump believed there was and told Georgia to find the destroyed ballots.

And this credible source is?

• Michael Flynn testified to his crimes under oath on at least two occasions.  Trump's pardon effectively certifies those crimes.
  

Can anyone actually list a single crime worthy of imprisonment that Trump did where there is conclusive evidence he did it?

He didn't use the FBI as his own arm of enforcement. He didn't use the DOJ to prosecute political opponents

-->@oromagi

are there any constitutional or statutory provisions which say the president doesnt have ultimate authority to change classifications at will? i suppose if a statute says it, it would constrain the president. at first, i was thinking that the president's authority would over ride a statute, and i suppose that's one way to look at it, but i think the whole picture approach is that the president is constrained by statutes- cause that's the way it's designed. 

• there are some but all of that authority was originally derived from some President so there is some question.  
  
• For example, the law says that its not declassified until the marking have been changed, but that law was enacted by President Obama so did Trump have to follow it while in office?  Murky but probably not.  No doubt that Trump has to follow that law now that he's out of office.  Likewise, the law says the President can declassify record made during his administration but not prior administration.  He can declassify White House stuff at will but if the documents originated with another Dept, that Dept. has the right to be given 60 days notice and deny declassification.  But then if the declassifier wants to appeal, they can appeal to the President- so does that mean the President can just skip the process and go go straight to declassification.   There are some classifications that say it doesn't matter what anybody say or does, this document can never be declassified under any circumstance.  But since that authority came from Eisenhower, etc. doesn't Trump have the same power?
  
• Be sure to notice in all this legal wrangling that Trump has not once claimed declassification in any court document.  That's because as soon as he does, a Judge is within his rights to say "show me the paperwork documenting  that" and if Trump can't (he can't) the Judge is entitled to ignore the claim.  Trump's whole "declassified" claim is for Fox News viewers- he is isn't using that as a legal defense of his actions and couldn't if he wanted to.

-->@oromagi

Wait!  Who was was that orange bitch that was all tits and wigs?

Your mom?

but if the constitution says that the executive branch equals the president, how can any process that undermines him be constitutional? he's the executive branch, that means any other part of the branch is subordinate to him. so, if he simply says something is declassified, that seems to make it so, right? 

but if the constitution says that the executive branch equals the president, how can any process that undermines him be constitutional?

Tim Pool predicts the 1st Woman president next year.

• Your mom?  That is surprising.

what do you think of the argument that trump had effectively declassified the documents

1. None of the crimes Trump is being investigated for depend on classification.  Classification is irrelevant for the purposes of determining criminal wrongdoing.
   
2. You can easily test the falsity of Trump's claim this way:
   
1. Almost any declassified Presidential record is available to a FoIA [freedom of information act] request.
   
2. We now know the labels and codes of certain folders of top secret human intelligence (spies), and need-to-know only satellite photos.
   
3. Just try to FOIA some of that compartmentalized, eyes only intelligence and watch how fast they say no.
   
4. Some of these documents were so secret that FBI agents with top secret clearance weren't allowed to touch them.  
   
3. Right before the 2020 Election, Trump declared that he declassified every classified document regarding Hillary Clinton's email.  Folks immediately began submitting FOIA requests only to discover that it was not true, the President can't just say something is declassified and that makes it declassified.  There's a process- NARA has to notified, the registration of the doc has to change, and a NARA official has to come in and modify all the marking on every page.  Until NARA has done so, the document is not declassified.  There's a whole bunch of agencies who have to have an opportunity to object if a President wants to declassify something.  It is true that a President can ask most non top-secret stuff to be declassified and NARA will probably comply but not until a procedure is followed.  Trump never even started that procedure for any of these documents.
   

 Also, is he gay?

According to Trump's legal team, the former President declassified everything he took with him before it left the White House while he was still president. 

If this is the case, then none of the information found was classified, since a sitting President can declassify whatever he wants to declassify. 

The question remains which side is telling the truth, and without credible documents or a host of eye-witness accounts, we will never know for sure.

Dreamer, I think it is waste of time and effort to attempt logical conversation with you.  Your a Trumpet cultist   and if he goes to jail  ---God I hope so--- I dont mind if join him there to be his servant.

• I gave him a five minute video showing Georgia election counters packing up the "suitcases" for three minutes while the Georgia Head of Elections and Lester Holt pointed and explained but Dream claimed he could not see it any packing.  I think it is like an actual hysterical blindness to any evidence that does not confirm one's bias.  

He's copy pasting AP articles for the most part, which I suppose qualifies him as a mainstream journalist these days.

Also, as a side note, how do you feel about Eucharistic miracles? 

 As of August 2022, Vladimir Putin’s net worth is estimated to be $70 Billion.

-->@3RU7AL

except that the paper you quoted contains demonstrably false claims

I did not quote anything.  I am 100% confident that you did not read the National Academy of Science's report.

except that the paper you quoted contains demonstrably false claims

1.) I didn't say "stupid" I said "ignorant", you for instance are probably not stupid but you are ignorant and/or biased (or at least doing a good job of conveying that impression)

The "doctrine of the inerrancy of scripture"held by the Catholic Church, as expressed by the Second Vatican Council, is that "The books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation."

Catholic Church.The Second Vatican Council authoritatively expressed the Catholic Church's view on biblical inerrancy. Citing earlier declarations, it stated: "Since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation." The Council added: "Since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words."

how are they going to fake the receipt that the voter takes home ?

One of the main reasons for the upgrade is scalability. The current Ethereum network can only support around 30 transactions per second; this causes delays and congestion. Ethereum 2.0 promises up to 100,000 transactions per second. This increase will be achieved through the implementation of shard chains.

all of these "frightening scenarios" apply equally to the current "mail-n-ballot" system

this "problem" is not specific to blockchain voting

any infrastructure failure is going to affect the "current system" and any "proposed system" equally

and obviously paper ballots could very easily be used in "emergency" special cases

are you familiar with the concept of "institutional inertia" ?

-->@oromagi

• Would you mail voters their token code in plain text, non coded form?  or would you eliminate vote by mail?
  

registered voters could show up in person at some point, any point really, to present their credentials and be randomly assigned one of the official e20 tokens from their local election authority

and at that point they could vote from anywhere on the planet with their unique code and also verify their vote online

• OK, but you'd have to agree that kill the number one advantage of mail-in voting, right?
• How would overseas and US Military work.  Would you run servers on foreign networks?
  

you seem to simply ignore the person you're talking to and instead simply DECLARE that what you personally consider an "authority" is basically "unquestionable"

The Bible is accepted as inerrant by some 2 billion Christians.

speech on appeals to authority

• Would you mail voters their token code in plain text, non coded form?  or would you eliminate vote by mail?
  
• Say Greg Abbot is your Governor and the power goes out for a week when it gets cold and election day is cold?  Is there some kind of back up system or do we have to wait for the power to come on for these voters to vote?  If the power is out past the election day deadline are these voters denied the right to vote?
  
• If power outages and DoS attacks can substantially suppress voting what's to keep Roger Stone from calculating exactly which Democratic strongholds need to be out of service in Wisconsin and Georgia for a couple of hours to guarantee a MAGA win and then ordering some DoS or well-timed transformer explosions?
  
• If voters can prove how they voted from their phone, doesn't that increase the opportunities for coercion and vote-selling?  Say, Milo Yianopoulos goes onto a traditionally liberal voting campus and puts the word out that he'll give $20 to anybody who can prove they voted for Trump?  How would we detect this kind of vote-selling?  Say an abusive husband demands that his wife prove that she voted for Trump when she comes home?
  
• Doesn't high volume significantly increase the cost and decrease the process time of block chain transactions?  Would a national one-day event overload the system and drive up the costs?
  
• Wouldn't it be true that any election official with access to the secure lockbox would be able to check voter's ballot?  Would that kind of vulnerability violate voters' Constitutional right to anonymity?
  
• If we're using Open Source on Pi Raspberry for everything, wouldn't it be fairly simple for some voting administrator to load some remote sharing software?