oromagi

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@3RU7AL

ok, it seemed like you were trying to find some other way of disqualifying them

So you just skipped past all that talk about coalition-building, I guess?

have you considered proposals for fully transparent and fully auditable voting systems that protect individual voter identification data ?

Well, we certainly had the most transparent and most audited election in US history in 2020.

Here in Colorado I get my ballot in the mail a month before the election and I can track its progress by barcode through the counting process and then see the scanned copy of my vote on file any time I like for seven years via the same app that documents my state licenses, vax records, etc. City elections are now done entirely by mail. Its super simple, much cheaper, participation is way up and we have high confidence in the accuracy of our votes.

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3 years ago

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DEMOCRATS HOLD 4 POINT LEAD over REPUBLICANS on GENERIC CONGRESSOINAL BALLOT: POLL

BY CAROLINE VAKIL - 08/17/22 3:31 PM ET

Democrats are leading Republicans by 4 percentage points on a generic congressional ballot, according to a new poll.

A Politico-Morning Consult poll released Wednesday found 46 percent of registered voters would choose the Democratic candidate compared to 42 percent who would choose the Republican if the election for Congress was held in their district today.

Twelve percent either said they did not know or had no opinion.

The poll is the latest showing Democrats just outpacing their Republican counterparts on a generic congressional ballot. Another recent survey showed more respondents supporting the Democratic Party controlling Congress than the Republican Party.

The Politico-Morning Consult poll also shows that 42 percent of respondents approve of President Biden’s job as president, up 3 percentage points from a poll that Politico and Morning Consult released last week.

Democrats are expected to encounter several headwinds in November, including the president’s still-underwater approval ratings, inflation and the precedent that a first-term president’s party usually suffers some losses in the midterms.

But Democrats have some reasons to feel optimistic, too. Biden signed a sweeping climate, tax reform and health bill on Tuesday after Democrats passed the reconciliation package in Congress. It was considered a major feat for the party given previous failed attempts to pass a social spending bill.

Recent data has also shown inflation has started to cool off, though it’s unclear if the trend will continue. A July jobs report that outpaced economists’ expectations is also considered a boost for Democrats.

The Politico-Morning Consult poll was conducted between Aug. 12 and Aug. 14 with 2,005 registered voters. The margin of error is plus or minus 2 percentage points.

VOTE them motherfuckers down!

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3 years ago

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@3RU7AL

-->@oromagi
"by that single attribute universally disqualified for office in any democracy"
how do you propose we exclude these people from the democratic process ?

The answer would have been obvious to anybody who is pro-democracy: vote the motherfuckers down

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3 years ago

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@3RU7AL

what leads you to the conclusion that "Trump and his supporters are not pro-democracy"

That's the number one topic in American politics for the last seven years. Are you really so unfamiliar with the evidence?

this claim appears to be "anti-democratic"

Nonsense. Atheists make bad popes. Liberals make bad kings. Autocrats make bad elected officials. Before you can effectively run any enterprise, you have to believe that enterprise is worth running.

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3 years ago

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@3RU7AL

Not sure what you're confused about.

people who don't believe in the success or worth of any project tend to work towards the manifestation of those beliefs.

Therefore people who don't believe in the success or worth of any project make objectively poor leaders for that project if success is the ultimate goal

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@3RU7AL

-->@oromagi

Liz Cheney famously broke with her family in 2013 by opposing gay marriage ahead of a failed Senate bid. Her objections caused a rift with her sister, Mary, a married lesbian. Mary's spouse, Heather Poe, posted on Facebook that year that Cheney's position was offensive and that “I always thought freedom meant freedom for EVERYONE.”

Yeah, well, that's democracy for you. Of course, I've been voting and sometimes campaigning for Democratic candidates who opposed gay marriage my whole life. 2016 was the first presidential race with a pro gay marriage candidate and she had run in 2008 opposed to the notion. I remember marching on my state's Democratic victory party when Bill Clinton was elected because Amendment 2 had passed in Colorado and we thought it unfair for Democrats to celebrating even as a law denying gays any legal protection passed.

LGBT folks learned long ago you don't have the luxury of demanding ideological purity when you're trying to build a coalition. You rank your priorities and then you build on number one, maybe number two if you're lucky.

I blame Dick Cheney for deliberately provoking the Gulf War, manufacturing a racist casus belli for the Iraq War, and tyrannically destroying the investigators who uncovered him. Dick Cheney's last heart attack is about forty years overdue as far as I'm concerned. But he's right when he says that Trump's the worst threat America has ever faced.

Citizens of a democracy have to know the difference between enemies of the state and the loyal opposition. Saving democracy takes priority over gay marriage because its inclusive. LGBT rights is just too easy an exploit for any autocrat to ignore (especially the gay ones). Cheney and I and loyal Americans and lovers of democracy worldwide need to get together on Trump now. Trump and his supporters are not pro-democracy and by that single attribute universally disqualified for office in any democracy.

Created:

3 years ago

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Posted in:

https://youtu.be/ro8rkZ4HQZQ

Created:

3 years ago

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Posted in:

TODAY OUR FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT IS BEING THREATENED. A FEDERAL JUDGE IS BEING THREATENED. FRESH THREATS OF VIOLENCE ARE ARISING EVERYWHERE AND DESPITE KNOWING ALL OF THIS, DONALD TRUMP RECENTLY RELEASED THE NAMES OF THE FBI AGENTS INVOLVED IN THE SEARCH.

THAT WAS PURPOSEFUL AND MALICIOUS.

NO PATRIOTIC AMERICAN SHOULD EXCUSE THESE THREATS OR BE INTIMIDATED BY THEM. OUR GREAT NATION MUST NOT BE RULED BY A MOB PROVOKED OVER SOCIAL MEDIA. OUR DUTY AS CITIZENS OF THIS REPUBLIC IS NOT ONLY TO DEFEND THE FREEDOM THAT'S BEEN HANDED DOWN TO US. WE ALSO HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO LEARN FROM THE ACTIONS OF THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE TO KNOW THE STORIES OF THE GRIT AND PERSEVERANCE OF THE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN WHO BUILT AND SAVED THIS UNION. IN THE LIVES OF THESE GREAT AMERICANS, WE FIND INSPIRATION AND PURPOSE.

IN MAY OF 1864 AFTER YEARS OF WAR AND A STRING OF RELUCTANT UNION GENERALS, ULYSSES S GRANT MET GENERAL LEE'S FORCES AT THE BATTLE OF THE WILDERNESS. IN TWO DAYS OF HEAVY FIGHTING, THE UNION SUFFERED OVER 17,000 CASUALTIES. AT THE END OF THAT BATTLE, GENERAL GRANT FACED A CHOICE, MOST ASSUMED HE WOULD DO WHAT PREVIOUS UNION GENERALS HAD DONE AND RETREAT. ON THE EVENING OF MAY SEVENTH, GRANT BEGAN TO MOVE. AS THE FIRES OF THE BATTLE STILL SMOLDERED, GRANT RODE TO THE HEAD OF THE COLUMN, HE RODE TO THE INTERSECTION OF BROCK ROAD AND ORANGE PLANK ROAD AND THERE AS THE MEN OF HIS ARMY WATCHED AND WAITED, INSTEAD OF TURNING NORTH BACK TOWARDS WASHINGTON AND SAFETY, GRANT TURNED HIS HORSE SOUTH TOWARD RICHMOND AND THE HEART OF LEE'S ARMY. REFUSING TO RETREAT, GRANT PRESSED ON TO VICTORY.

LINCOLN AND GRANT AND ALL WHO FOUGHT IN OUR NATION'S TRAGIC CIVIL WAR, INCLUDING MY OWN GREAT GREAT GRANDFATHERS SAVED OUR UNION. THEIR COURAGE SAVED FREEDOM AND IF WE LISTEN CLOSELY, THEY ARE SPEAKING TO US DOWN THE GENERATIONS. WE MUST NOT IDLY SQUANDER WHAT SO MANY HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED FOR.

AMERICA HAS MEANT SO MUCH TO SO MANY BECAUSE WE ARE THE BEST HOPE OF FREEDOM ON EARTH. LAST WEEK, IN LARAMIE A GENTLEMAN CAME UP TO ME WITH TEARS IN HIS EYES. I'M NOT AN AMERICAN. HE SAID. BUT MY CHILDREN ARE, I GREW UP IN BRAZIL, I KNOW HOW FRAGILE FREEDOM IS AND WE MUST NOT LOSE IT HERE.

A FEW DAYS AGO, HERE IN JACKSON, A WOMAN TOLD ME THAT HER GRANDPARENTS HAD SURVIVED AUSCHWITZ. THEY FOUND REFUGE IN AMERICA. SHE SAID SHE WAS AFRAID THAT SHE HAD NOWHERE TO GO IF FREEDOM DIED HERE.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, FREEDOM MUST NOT CANNOT AND WILL NOT DIE HERE.

WE MUST BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THE THREAT WE FACE AND ABOUT WHAT IS REQUIRED TO DEFEAT IT. I HAVE SAID SINCE JANUARY 6 THAT I WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO ENSURE DONALD TRUMP IS NEVER AGAIN ANYWHERE NEAR THE OVAL OFFICE. AND I MEAN IT. THIS IS A FIGHT FOR ALL OF US TOGETHER.

I'M A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN. I BELIEVE DEEPLY IN THE PRINCIPALS AND THE IDEALS ON WHICH MY PARTY WAS FOUNDED. I LOVE ITS HISTORY AND I LOVE WHAT OUR PARTY HAS STOOD FOR, BUT I LOVE MY COUNTRY MORE.

SO I ASK YOU TONIGHT TO JOIN ME AS WE LEAVE HERE, LET US RESOLVE THAT WE WILL STAND TOGETHER. REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS AND INDEPENDENTS AGAINST THOSE WHO WOULD DESTROY OUR REPUBLIC. THEY ARE ANGRY AND THEY ARE DETERMINED. BUT THEY HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THE POWER OF AMERICANS, UNITED IN DEFENSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND COMMITTED TO THE CAUSE OF FREEDOM. THERE IS NO GREATER POWER ON THIS EARTH. AND WITH GOD'S HELP WE WILL PREVAIL.

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3 years ago

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A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AGO I RECEIVED A NOTE FROM A GOLD STAR FATHER. HE SAID TO ME, STANDING UP FOR TRUTH HONORS ALL WHO GAVE ALL AND I HAVE THOUGHT OF HIS WORDS EVERY SINGLE DAY SINCE THEN I'VE THOUGHT OF THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE A REMINDER OF HOW WE MUST ALL CONDUCT OURSELVES. WE MUST CONDUCT OURSELVES IN A WAY THAT IS WORTHY OF THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO WEAR THE UNIFORM OF THIS NATION AND IN PARTICULAR OF THOSE WHO HAVE GIVEN THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE.

THIS IS NOT A GAME. EVERY ONE OF US MUST BE COMMITTED TO THE ETERNAL DEFENSE OF THIS MIRACULOUS EXPERIMENT CALLED AMERICA AND AT THE HEART OF OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESS, OUR ELECTIONS. THEY ARE THE FOUNDATIONAL PRINCIPLE OF OUR CONSTITUTION.

TWO YEARS AGO, I WON THIS PRIMARY WITH 73% OF THE VOTE. I COULD EASILY HAVE DONE THE SAME AGAIN. THE PATH WAS CLEAR BUT IT WOULD HAVE REQUIRED THAT I GO ALONG WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LIE ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION. IT WOULD HAVE REQUIRED THAT I ENABLE HIS ONGOING EFFORTS TO UNRAVEL OUR DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM AND ATTACK THE FOUNDATIONS OF OUR REPUBLIC. THAT WAS A PATH I COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT TAKE.

NO HOUSE SEAT. NO OFFICE IN THIS LAND IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PRINCIPLES THAT WE ARE ALL SWORN TO PROTECT AND I WELL UNDERSTOOD THE POTENTIAL POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES OF ABIDING BY MY DUTY. OUR REPUBLIC RELIES UPON THE GOODWILL OF ALL CANDIDATES FOR OFFICE TO ACCEPT HONORABLY THE OUTCOME OF ELECTIONS. THIS PRIMARY ELECTION IS OVER BUT NOW THE REAL WORK BEGINS.

THE GREAT AND ORIGINAL CHAMPION OF OUR PARTY, ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS DEFEATED IN ELECTIONS FOR THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE BEFORE HE WON THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF ALL. LINCOLN ULTIMATELY PREVAILED. HE SAVED OUR UNION AND HE DEFINED OUR OBLIGATION AS AMERICANS FOR ALL OF HISTORY. SPEAKING AT GETTYSBURG, OF THE GREAT TASK REMAINING BEFORE US, LINCOLN SAID THAT WE HERE HIGHLY RESOLVE THAT THESE DEAD SHALL NOT HAVE DIED IN VAIN. THAT THIS NATION UNDER GOD SHALL HAVE A NEW BIRTH OF FREEDOM AND THAT GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE SHALL NOT PERISH FROM THIS EARTH . AS WE MEET HERE TONIGHT, THAT REMAINS OUR GREATEST AND MOST IMPORTANT TASK.

MOST OF WORLD HISTORY IS A STORY OF VIOLENT CONFLICT[ OF SERVITUDE AND SUFFERING. MOST PEOPLE IN MOST PLACES HAVE NOT LIVED IN FREEDOM. OUR AMERICAN FREEDOM IS A PROVIDENTIAL DEPARTURE FROM HISTORY. WE ARE THE EXCEPTION, WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE GIFT OF FREEDOM BY GOD AND OUR FOUNDING FATHERS.

IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT THE LONG ARC OF HISTORY BENDS TOWARDS JUSTICE AND FREEDOM. THAT'S TRUE, BUT ONLY IF WE MAKE IT BEND. TODAY OUR HIGHEST DUTY IS TO BEND THE ARC OF HISTORY, TO PRESERVE OUR NATION AND ITS BLESSINGS TO ENSURE THAT FREEDOM WILL NOT PERISH, TO PROTECT THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF THIS CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

NEVER IN OUR NATION'S 246 YEARS HAVE WE SEEN WHAT WE SAW ON JANUARY 6. LIKE SO MANY AMERICANS, I ASSUMED THAT THE VIOLENCE AND THE CHAOS OF THAT DAY WOULD HAVE PROMPTED A UNITED RESPONSE, A RECOGNITION THAT THIS WAS A LINE THAT MUST NEVER BE CROSSED, A TRAGIC CHAPTER IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY TO BE STUDIED BY HISTORIANS TO ENSURE THAT IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. BUT INSTEAD, MAJOR ELEMENTS OF MY PARTY STILL VEHEMENTLY DEFENDS THOSE WHO CAUSED IT.

AT THE HEART OF THE ATTACK ON JANUARY 6, IS A WILLINGNESS TO EMBRACE DANGEROUS CONSPIRACIES THAT ATTACK THE VERY CORE PREMISE OF OUR NATION. THAT LAWFUL ELECTIONS REVIEWED BY THE COURTS WHEN NECESSARY AND CERTIFIED BY THE STATES AND ELECTORAL COLLEGE DETERMINE WHO SERVES AS PRESIDENT. IF WE DO NOT CONDEMN THE CONSPIRACIES AND THE LIES, IF WE DO NOT HOLD THOSE RESPONSIBLE TO ACCOUNT, WE WILL BE EXCUSING THIS CONDUCT AND IT WILL BECOME A FEATURE OF ALL ELECTIONS.

AMERICA WILL NEVER BE THE SAME .

TODAY AS WE MEET HERE, THERE ARE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR WHO DENY THE OUTCOME OF THE 2020 ELECTION AND WHO MAY REFUSE TO CERTIFY FUTURE ELECTIONS IF THEY OPPOSE THE RESULTS.

WE HAVE CANDIDATES FOR SECRETARY OF STATE WHO MAY REFUSE TO REPORT THE ACTUAL RESULTS OF THE POPULAR VOTE IN FUTURE ELECTIONS.

AND WE HAVE CANDIDATES FOR CONGRESS INCLUDING HERE IN WYOMING, WHO REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT JOE BIDEN WON THE 2020 ELECTION AND SUGGESTED STATES DECERTIFY THEIR RESULTS.

OUR NATION IS BARRELING ONCE AGAIN TOWARDS CRISIS, LAWLESSNESS, AND VIOLENCE! NO AMERICAN SHOULD SUPPORT ELECTION DENIERS FOR ANY POSITION OF GENUINE RESPONSIBILITY WHERE THEIR REFUSAL TO FOLLOW THE RULE OF LAW WILL CORRUPT OUR FUTURE!

OUR NATION IS YOUNG IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND YET WE'RE THE OLDEST DEMOCRACY IN THE WORLD. OUR SURVIVAL IS NOT GUARANTEED. HISTORY HAS SHOWN US OVER AND OVER AGAIN HOW POISONOUS LIES DESTROY FREE NATIONS.

OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, IN THE JANUARY SIX HEARINGS, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE WATCHED DOZENS OF REPUBLICANS, INCLUDING THE MOST SENIOR OFFICIALS WORKING FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND ON HIS CAMPAIGN. PEOPLE WHO SERVED PRESIDENT TRUMP LOYALLY TESTIFY THAT THEY TOLD HIM THE ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN OR RIGGED AND THAT THERE WAS NO MASSIVE FRAUD. THAT'S WHY PRESIDENT TRUMP AND OTHERS INVENT EXCUSES AND PRETEXTS FOR PEOPLE NOT TO WATCH THE HEARINGS AT ALL,

BUT NO CITIZEN OF THIS REPUBLIC IS A BYSTANDER.

ALL OF US HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO UNDERSTAND WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. WE CANNOT ABANDON THE TRUTH AND REMAIN A FREE NATION.

TO BELIEVE DONALD TRUMP'S ELECTION LIES, YOU MUST BELIEVE THAT DOZENS OF FEDERAL AND STATE COURTS WHO RULED AGAINST HIM, INCLUDING MANY JUDGES HE APPOINTED, WERE ALL CORRUPTED AND BIASED. THAT ALL MANNER OF CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORIES STOLE OUR ELECTION FROM US AND THAT DONALD TRUMP ACTUALLY REMAINS PRESIDENT TODAY.

AS OF LAST WEEK, YOU MUST ALSO BELIEVE THAT 30 CAREER FBI AGENTS WHO HAVE SPENT THEIR LIVES WORKING TO SERVE OUR COUNTRY, ABANDONED THEIR HONOR AND THEIR OATHS AND WENT TO MAR A LAGO NOT TO PERFORM A LAWFUL SEARCH OR ADDRESS A NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT, BUT INSTEAD WITH A SECRET PLAN TO PLANT FAKE INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS IN THE BOXES THEY SEIZED. THIS IS YET ANOTHER INSIDIOUS LIE.

DONALD TRUMP KNOWS THAT VOICING THESE CONSPIRACIES WILL PROVOKE VIOLENCE AND THREATS OF VIOLENCE. THIS HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6 AND IS NOW HAPPENING AGAIN. IT IS ENTIRELY FORESEEABLE THAT THE VIOLENCE WILL ESCALATE FURTHER. YET HE AND OTHERS CONTINUE PURPOSELY TO FEED THE DANGER .

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3 years ago

3

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"Better Call Saul" Ends

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@Swagnarok

-->@oromagi
I mean, he didn't actually cause the plane thing. You could say he was responsible via the butterfly effect, but that's not really the same thing. Walt never chose to push a button to make two planes collide.

No but that's when any rational man would've rethought his life.

That eye of the bear burnt just like Fring. That eye that Walter pockets and embraces Heisenberg with certainty. That's when Walt pushed the button.

When Saul tells the story of how he met Walter and brings Marie to the point of forgiveness and then uses that to negotiate, I was certain that Saul had pocketed his eyeball so I am glad that his love for Kim, at least, was non-negotiable.

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3 years ago

3

Posted in:

"Better Call Saul" Ends

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@Swagnarok

I stopped rooting for Walt after the plane blew up. Then it was like, you know, there's worse things than Cancer....

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3 years ago

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@IwantRooseveltagain

You don’t think illegal campaign contributions are anti-American?

Not really, no. I mean, D'Souza's a fool and a lech but he's not actively selling out American's safety and interest like the rest of these guys. At least, as far I know.

All political campaigning is unnecessarily long and expensive essentially because politicians enjoy long periods of getting standing ovations for dining free with billionaires and celebrities. I think political campaigns should be very short, spartan, and at public expense. The line between legal and illegal campaign spending is hopelessly fuzzy and impossible to regulate.

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3 years ago

0

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"Better Call Saul" Ends

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@Swagnarok

I cried at the end.

Because Breaking Bad was a tragedy I assumed that Better Call Saul would be one too but I'm glad it was a love story and I'm glad even Slippin' JImmy can still sacrifice everything for love.

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3 years ago

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@ADreamOfLiberty

federal bureaucracies have exhausted their benefit of the doubt when arresting members of Trump's campaign or administration.

The FBI is about as core a Republican organization as you will find. My oldest friend is a lawyer at the FBI because after 15 years at FOX News they paid for most of his law degree and then introduced him to their connections at the FBI. He says there is a real culture about not talking about politics but it doesn't take long to to figure out that just about everybody votes Republican. If you think the FBI is going after Trump & thugs because they are Republicans then you have badly mistaken the FBI's motives. The FBI is just pro-American, pro-rule of law, like Liz Cheney and John McCain and whole bunch of other Republicans that Trump is purging out of the Republican party to his great discredit and the disservice of all Americans. All of the guys you're talking about pled guilty to their crimes and all of their crimes (except D'Souza) are pretty fucking anti-American.

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3 years ago

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ELECTION FRAUD: GIULIANI is TARGET of ELECTION PROBE

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@ADreamOfLiberty

AP says officials say, but my eyes are what I'm listening to and my eyes say they kept the watchers in a corner and then sent them home

Your eyes are easy to deceive when the brain behind them is so unquestioning. Your eyes watch two minutes of video but Giuliani provides you the narrative. Your brain does not see "suitcases" they are just ordinary ballot containers- if you watch the whole day's video you see a hundred of them get filled and emptied all day long. Your eyes boxes pulled out from under the table but your eyes don't tell you that those boxes were filled and closed and sealed just one hour before in front of the press and plenty of public observers. The narrative that something covert is going on is entirely made up by Giuliani and you unquestioningly believe rather than asking to see when the boxes were placed there.

Here is Gabriel Sterling, Trump voting life long Georgia Republican and Operations Chief for the Republican Secretary of State explaining the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjKXvqSNIkk&ab_channel=60Minutes

Nobody asked the press and observer to leave. The vote counters started packing up at 10pm to go home for the night, so the press and observer started leaving. The last one left at 10:45. At 11:00pm the Secretary calls down and tell vote counters that he want them to keep on counting and even though these folks have been working since early morning, they come back and start counting again. It is nobody's job to tell the press and observers they're going to count again- nobody cares whether they are there. The independent observer and the investigator required by State Law were present and the entire process entirely above board.
Your eyes actually see nothing unusual. Giuliani has provided the narrative that makes you think something unusual has happened.

before pulling out the containers. There also appears to be repeatedly running the same ballots through.

Again, this is your ignorance and lack of questioning rather than any unusual event. Anybody observing any automatic ballot counting machines in any counting room will observe the same process. As Sterling testified under oath:

"What happens there is a standard operating procedure. That if there is a missed scan, if there's a misalignment, if it doesn't read right — these are high speed, high capacity scanners. So three or four will go through after a mis-scan. You have to delete that batch and put it back through again. And by going through the hand tally, as the Secretary pointed out, we showed that if there had been multiple ballots scanned without a, you know, corresponding physical ballot, your counts would have been a lot higher than the ballots themselves."
"And by doing the hand tally, we saw two specific numbers that were me — met. The hand tally got us to a .1053 percent off of the total votes cast and .0099 percent on the margin, which is essentially dead on accurate. Most academic studies say on a hand tally you will have between one and two percent. But because we use ballot marking devices where it's very clear what the voter intended, it made it a lot easier to us — for us to conduct that hand count and show that none of that was true."

You don't know what a normal scanning process looks like and aren't curious enough to find our for yourself. Giuliani counts on that ignorance to fill in his narrative that these are people recounting votes even thought their activity is indistinguishable from any other ballot count with high speed scanners where the ballots favored Trump.
What you saw was brief clips out of context and then you allowed Giuliani to tell you a story about what think you are observing, rather than interrogating those facts yourself.

My lying eyes vs AP reporting on 'officials', tough one.

Nobody disputes this fact, not even Giuliani. Since they are visible on video tape from time to time , there is no point in denying it. Giuliani only claims that press and public observers were told to leave. Interviews with those press and observers has established that nobody told anybody to leave, they just left because everybody thought it was over for the night. AP News is generally most reliable because Fox News and WSJ and whoever else rely on it for factual reporting as much ABC, NBC, etc. If FOX News didn't think AP was reliable, they wouldn't pay AP the massive subscription fee. The truth is most of the non-political news you get on FOX, etc comes from the AP.

The total numbers of ballot counted in the hour and one half of overtime counting was roughly 1,000.
Prove it.

The independent monitor noted that between 8:15 p.m. and 12:43 a.m., the change in total ballots went from 89,381 ballots to 99,133 ballots — so a difference of 9,752 votes. But after the callback it looks like there's only one scanner going, maybe two. So very roughly between 1/11th of total scanner production= 887 ballots and 2/12ths of total scanner production=1,625. That's just my estimate, nobody official has gotten more specific than 9752 votes between 8:15 and 12:43

Claims of fraud is not necessarily proportional to fraud.

No but claims of fraud generally exceed actual fraud. When nobody reports any fraud, that's a good sign. When the results of an election with no complaints matches very well to the results of an election just 8 weeks prior, that provides an additional level of confidence.

I did look at the evidence, I'm simply placing a higher weight on the evidence over assertions.

I beg your pardon but you are clearly preferring the testimony of one drunk, biased, non-witness lawyer for the losing candidate based on a brief clip of video to the very consistent testimony of every person in the room sworn under oath and repeated to 5 or 6 investigations in the face of death threats. Let's recall that same lawyer told Republican leadership confidentially that he he had no evidence of fraud even as he was pursuing this very claim in court.

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3 years ago

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https://www.debateart.com/debates/3643-thbt-conservatives-are-right

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@ADreamOfLiberty

oromagi: An utterly corrupt statement.
Reversing corruption is not corruption.

There's no such thing as "reversing corruption." You are admitting here that you endorse corruption so long as you think of it a revenge corruption. Reversing corruption with corruption is just as corrupt as reversing murder with murder is still just more murder.

Obviously DAs and cops shouldn't charge and jury/judge shop based on political judgement but when Pandora's box is open...

But DA and cops can't ignore obvious crimes just because they're Republican which is what you claim when you say "DOJ treats X like criminal insurrectionist" and "X" is a republican, that's not convincing anyone. You're essentially saying that is is not a crime if a Republican commits it.

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3 years ago

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why slavery is good

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@Athias

If you're going to assume a "new identity," the least you could do is disguise your habits.

You know you might be right.

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3 years ago

4

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VOTE the MEEP! CONSPIRACY THEORIES and/or HISTORY as NEW FORUM CATEGORIES?

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@Barney

-->@oromagi
What description do you have in mind for the new forum? I also suggest normal caps for the name, even while the referendum technically had it all caps.

Definitely normal for caps- standard format.

How about

"Topics related to the memory, interrogation, documentation, and validity of the past" ?

Too long? Maybe lose interrogation?

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3 years ago

3

Posted in:

VOTE the MEEP! CONSPIRACY THEORIES and/or HISTORY as NEW FORUM CATEGORIES?

PROPOSITION2 WINS in a LANDSLIDE!

Shall we request the creation of a new FORUM CATEGORY titled HISTORY ?

YES :oro, Barney, BearMan, Ehyeh, christianm, Best.Korea, Castin, Kritikal, Yester, RM, Alfresco, Stephen, FLRW, TWS, BDP, Poly, Skep, Morn, CompNerd, fivesix, Psheep, Tej, David,

23

NO:intel6,3RU7AL, thett3, Lemming, Earth, Novice, Ram, Mharman

8

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3 years ago

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CHALLENGE

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@Vici

-->@oromagi
you are literally a piece of scum who snipes opponents and picks at debates from corners which are clearly not within the parameters of a debate. Why do i need to put in the description "no fuckery" - why cant people here just be decent - obviously, fuckery is not desirable so why do it?

Because some pieces of scum try to snipe opponent with little bits of semantic fuckery like this-

and then brag about their fuckery like this:

i bet you didnt see my argumnt coming

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BSH1 MEMORiAL PROFiLE PiC PiCK of the WEEK No. 40- STAND with UKRAINE

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@Vici

So by your logic, Van Gogh was worthless because nobody ever saw his work.

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3 years ago

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ELECTION FRAUD: GIULIANI is TARGET of ELECTION PROBE

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@ADreamOfLiberty

P.S. that video was not "debunked" Raffensperger asserted that everything was fine. I debunk his debunking by asserting it was not fine.

Your religious beliefs are yours to believe.

Here is Trump's claim as stated on the Jan 2nd extortion call:

"We had at least 18,000, that's on tape. We had them counted very painstakingly, 18,000 voters having to do with the .That's she's a vote scammer, a professional vote scammer and hustler. that is that was the tape that's been shown all over the world that makes everybody look bad. You, me and everybody else where they got -- number one they said they said very clearly. And it's been reported that the said there was a major water main break. Everybody fled the area and then they came back. her daughter and a few people. There was no Republican poll watchers, actually. There were no Democrat poll watchers. I guess they were them, but there were no Democrats either. And there was no law enforcement late in the morning. They went early in the morning. They went to the table with the black robe, the black shield, and they pulled out the votes. Those votes were put there are a number of hours before, the table was put there. I think it was -- Brad, you would know -- it was probably eight hours or seven hours before. And then it was stuffed with votes. They weren’t in an official voter box. They were in what looked to be suitcases or trunks, suitcases, but they weren’t in voter boxes. The minimum number it could be because we watched it, and they watched it certified in slow motion, instant replay, if you can believe it, but had slow motion and it was magnified many times over. And the minimum it was was eighteen thousand ballots, all for Biden."

AP News: "That’s a gross distortion of what actually happened. State and Fulton County election officials say surveillance video that Trump refers shows no improper behavior, but normal ballot processing using not suitcases, but ballot containers on wheels. Officials said that the entire video showed the same workers had earlier packed the ballot containers with valid, uncounted ballots. Republicans have contended that their observers were told to leave Fulton County’s vote counting center, but elections officials said they actually left after confusion that arose because election workers thought they were done for the night. An independent monitor and an investigator in fact oversaw the vote count, according to state and county officials. Trump also refers to a fake confession attributed by a woman allegedly involved in the incident that was posted on social media."

The total numbers of ballot counted in the hour and one half of overtime counting was roughly 1,000. There were 3 recounts total, one with a hand recount examining signatures. The Secretary of States office did an investigation of the counting, followed by the Georgia Senate, followed by the Georgia House. Then came two lawsuits. One found Trump's claims meritless, the other ruled on a technicality but that 4 ballot counts 5 investigation (a sixth Grand Jury investigation is under way assessing whether to charge Trump with extortion. All of the investigations were done by Republicans. None found even a tiny bit of merit to Trump's claim.

No other Let's recall that Georgia ran 2 Senate runoff elections 59 days later. The turnout was very nearly the same size as the general election and the same county voted democratic by a slightly larger margin. Even though this election fully validates the general, there are no claims of election fraud for these election.

Trump's claim is not just obviously fake it is also stupid- just refusing to look at the evidence.

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@ADreamOfLiberty

Mostly ideal cases of pardon power use, when your political opponents have captured law enforcement institutions and are using them to blackmail confessions out of people and/or framing them to try to get you to lie about how bad the president is.

Of course he wouldn't have to do that if he had just destroyed those subverted institutions, SAAAD!

An utterly corrupt statement. Obviously, no President should ever pardon friends or associates and certainly not based on any political judgement, which simply can't help but be biased.

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@Swagnarok

I appreciate the clarification but I don't buy your assertion. I suppose this is the kind of thing that heavily depends on personal experience.

It sounds like my personal experience is very different from yours. I've certainly seen resolutions to such accusations that ranged wildly across the board but my tendency is to believe the victim's claim of any assault so long as they are specific and remain consistent. My experience is most false claims fall apart pretty easily.

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ELECTION FRAUD: GIULIANI is TARGET of ELECTION PROBE

Trump is to John Brown

as

Bill Barr is to Alexis Texas

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@Swagnarok

well, its a distinction but I don't see much difference.

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@Swagnarok

Men will rally around a tribal identity. That of their family. Or a national identity. A political party. A religion or religious identity. A race. An ethnicity. Sometimes even a sexual orientation. But never their own male sex. It's like men are hardwired not to go there. More like, it can't be sustained in large numbers. Men will never enjoy widespread solidarity with each other simply for being male.

Doesn't this website objectively refute this statement? Isn't this website (and debate as an activity generally) quite clearly peopled by a majority of men seeking/preferring the company of other men? As far as I can tell, Danielle and Poly are pretty much the exceptions that prove the rule.

gaming, drinking, sports (as activity and/or entertainment) all seem like exactly the places men go to enjoy solidarity with other men.

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How big of an asshole does a guy have to be to block somebody but then constantly pepper that somebody with questions? Think of all the times each day ratman has to go to his settings / unblock me / make his comment / go back to his settings / block me again / and still somehow rationalize to himself that he has some credibility as a debater.

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ELECTION FRAUD: GIULIANI is TARGET of ELECTION PROBE

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@FLRW

-->@oromagi

When do you think Trump will copy Nixon and say, 'I Am Not A Crook'?

Not at all his style. Trump style is to take your last dollar, kick you in the balls, and walk away leaving some lawyer he'll never pay to bully you into a non-disclosure agreement.

He actually sold himself to his constituency as a man who could get away with murder, so the far less defamatory standard of "crook" would an improvement on his promised standard of conduct.

Here he is today, caught red-handed with evidence of treasonous espionage, and he argues both that the FBI is planting the evidence but also that evidence was declassified by him years ago so he could take it home. Trump consistently offers at least one argument for smart people and another argument for his supporters, confident they lack the reasoning and backbone to challenge dear leader's facts.

He takes the fifth 440 times in one interview and actually brags about his 440 confessions of guilt. Then he tells his supporters that cheating on taxes is how the really smart guys get ahead. and his followers merely nod their heads approvingly.

I wish Trump cared enough about his (or by extension his country's) reputation to deny being a crook.

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BSH1 MEMORiAL PROFiLE PiC PiCK of the WEEK No. 40- STAND with UKRAINE

Breakdown Estimated & claimed casualties Time period

Civilians 12,000–28,521+ killed 24 February – 7 August 2022

Russian and other forces 70,000–80,000 killed and wounded 24 February – 8 August 2022

US estimate 20,000 killed

Ukraine estimate 43,400 killed, 24 February – 13 August 2022

98,000–117,000 wounded

SLAVA UKRAINI!

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CHALLENGE

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@Novice_II

good advice. Also-

define terms in the description of the debate.

define every noun, verb, adjective, and adverb in your thesis statement.

Use mainstream popular sources but don't be afraid to choose the sense of the word that best supports your case.

setting a "no trolls or kritiks, please" rule in description gets the VOTERS on your side in the case of any semantic fuckery.

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What does Red Pill do?

Community members dissect Red Pill theory with each other, sharing "field reports" of their experiences, writing "rants" against feminism or other topics.

For a group of socially-aware individuals disappointed in the current state of gender relations, there's not much activism, so to speak. By Morpheus's own admission, Red Pill doesn't do much offline.

"We’re definitely a little different from the men’s rights movement in the sense that we don’t seek to 'fix' society or our government," he said. "In fact, a lot of us feel that things are beyond fixing. Sure it’d be nice if reproductive rights were equal between women and men, but nobody’s holding their breath about it. A majority of our goals are personal and interpersonal improvement. Not really something to write your congressperson for."

Misandry and male disadvantage

Return of KingsThis comic (right) gets at the general tone of the Red Pill worldview.One user cites this personal experience with society's anti-male attitude. He loves lifting weights because he enjoys getting stronger and pushing himself, but his family makes fun of him for doing so. They lob accusations of wasted time and money at him, telling him that girls don't like muscular men, only gay men do. He concludes that his family is teasing him because his weightlifting is "not in the service of a woman, so it's bad and a waste of time."

Other commonly-cited examples of our so-called misandrist society? In some states cohabitation is considered a Common Law marriage – a man's common law wife could have him evicted from his own house. 80% of women will get human papiloma virus. More than 50% of all marriages end in divorce, and 70% of these are initiated by women.

There's plenty of discussion over gender-based news items: The woman who got less than four years in jail for cutting off her husband's penis to make sure he couldn't impregnate any other women. The woman who lied about being raped in order to win $10,000 on a talk radio show. Stories like these (and the ensuing discussion and debate) lead to the worldview that society isn't fair enough for men:

Our entire social structure is designed to support women’s living any way they want [...] Women are allowed to do and say anything they want anywhere. Men are restricted in their speech and conduct. VAWA [the Violence Against Women Act], which has a "must arrest" policy in a domestic violence call. Women can assault and beat men in public with impunity and the tacit support of feminists.

There are new social customs to constrain most men. A man is forbidden to notice an attractive woman at work. He is not to comment on it, talk about it or even look a second or two too long. Nuclear rejections, public shaming are the norm if a man she deems unattractive deigns to talk to her in public. Men are never, ever to even notice good looking women.Attractive men are exempt from all of these legal and social conventions.

The other side of the coin?

LA prominent feminist blogger who we'll call Alicia described Red Pill to us as follows: "Where feminists are saying, 'Okay men, you have enough rights. Let women catch up,' Red Pill says, 'Hey women, you have too many rights and we need to take some away.'"She says that Red Pill isn't actually the other side of the gender relations coin, but a group of hateful, militant extremists. Red Pill is quick to respond with data that purport to show an institutional bias against males, such as the stat that "90% of imprisonments, suicides, and crippling occupational injuries are of men," but Alicia calls this a "shroud of credibility. They use that approach to make it okay to hate women."

When we asked Morpheus if Red Pillers hate women, he said, "Delving into Red Pill ideas is a very shocking experience for some, especially for those who were raised to believe that politically correct ideals reflect nature. The road to our forum is paved with bad experiences, men who have never been loved, have loved and lost, men who have tried and failed, or men who succeeded and were taken advantage of."

Alicia told us that she's "tried to empathize with some of these guys for a long time, because it's clear that many of them are suffering so acutely. They want female attention and for one reason or another, they're not getting it."

Having followed the group for many years, she said she wasn't too bothered by them when they were a smaller in number. Its introduction page still references a time when there were only 100 members (and as you recall from before, there are a touch over 15,000 members today). "As they grow online, the real danger is in exposing this stuff to younger boys," Alicia said. "When you're 15, girls are weird and you're looking for answers. The Red Pill claims to have them."

Becoming alpha

AThe stated goal of a man in The Red Pill community, generally speaking, is to "become alpha." We spoke to John Romaniello, a coach and author of Man 2.0: Becoming The Alpha, to get his take on what an alpha attitude is all about.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, he hadn't exactly swallowed the Red Pill.

"My definition of an alpha is someone who wants to become the best version of themselves so that they can best serve the world. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with motivating guys to become better men, but The Red Pill seems to be doing so in an aggressive and adversarial sort of way. From an outside perspective, it seems like they're a bit too vocal about categorizing themselves as alphas and others as betas ... there doesn't seem to be an attitude of wanting to bring other people into the fold. It seems divisive rather than inclusive."

Romaniello referenced a post he saw where a Red Piller wrote something to the effect of "if you focus on self-improvement, you'll attract a higher-quality woman."

"There's nothing controversial to this statement," he said. "And, speaking personally, I agree with it. I think there are many Red Pill members who see it that way. But there are a lot of voices decrying this sentiment in favor of an attitude of ... degradation, I guess. It seems like The Red Pill is generally taking the idea of alpha from the pickup artist perspective and running in an extreme direction with it. Like any group or belief system, there's a lot of value to be found with the reasonable stuff. But also like any other group, The Red Pill has some extremists who are fervent in their beliefs and incredibly vocal. Oh, and batshit crazy. I think that's likely the reason The Red Pill has gotten the reputation of being misogynistic. "

Romaniello added, "I want to like the Red Pill. They're helping guys find confidence and actively seek self-edification. It's a good idea, I'm just not in love with the execution. The goal of an alpha should be to serve the world and improve other people – not to tear men down and hate women. Maybe the Red Pillers just have a bit more growing to do. I think they'll get there."

But does it work?

We were interested to see if we could find an example of someone struggling with Red Pill and everything that goes along with it. Maybe someone who adopted the ideas only to change his mind upon putting them into practice. The closest we came was this post written by a user who qualifies that he was drunk while writing it. Here's an excerpt:

I don’t know what I’m doing, but I want a really high value girl and this lifestyle isn't yielding what I consider to be high value and, to be completely honest, I don’t want what it has offered so far [...] I feel completely lost, full of value, and wandering amongst an ocean of women who aren’t offering what I desire (a healthy BMI, a fun personality that can take my teasing, and some legitimate intelligence to keep up with me and know how to push back against my teasing [...] I’m an attractive, muscular, intelligent, and fun guy. I fully believe in my sexual market value, but I don’t feel like I’m finding any girls to satisfy my desires in a partner.

The last comment on the post says, "You can make it through this man, I believe in you."

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