Could any of you guys take action over BrotherD.Thomas? He keeps commenting unnecessary things under debates and I think he may be a bot. Please could you look into this issue.
I understand your point but at the end I did say everything is within the Tafsir.
'(as we are the first of the believers,) means, because we are the first of our people, the Egyptians, to believe. So he killed them all.'
This is Ibn Kathir, one of the best Arabic scholars who interpreted it as 'of his people'.
As well as this, Muslim means 'submitter'. By definition Adam was the first Muslim which again shows that no one after Adam can be the first Muslim ever. It doesn't say in the verses 'ever' it just says 'first of the believers'. All this evidence points to the verses specifically talking about the people at its time. With the Muhammed (PBUH) verse, it talked about his people in the very next verse, suggesting the former was also
If we take every verse literally within the Quran with no interpretation from the Tafsir nor from a linguistic/Arabic point of view, then certain phrases and sentences won't make sense to the English speaker. It is why we have the interpretations in the first place. First hand Arabic scholars who have studied the Arabic language break down each word and say what it is referring to.
It can be applied to every language. In French, there are certain phrases if we say literally they don't make sense.
I am contesting your vote based on this reason, I don't think you gave that a fair assessment taking in all factors aside from the point it is a different language that is translated into English. Especially if this is the only reason that you voted Con, on this one 'contradiction'.
People like you are already blind to the truth therefore I don't need to debate or deny your claims because they are nonsensical as they are. You are a little boy, no two ways about it
You quoted a hadith, not the Quran. So your original claim was false. Anyway, as I said not an authentic hadith, never happened. These fools, never learn smh
And Aisha was not a male, but a female. So that claim was wrong to.
And it is the same argument with the marriage of Aisha and the Prophet, pathetic, it has been debunked many many times.
Trolling is weird my guy, especially when you are wrong for every single thing lol
The Quran has nothing to do with the Prophets accounts because the Quran was written by God. Now you are making disgusting claims about the Prophet which you have no evidence of. I don't see where the Prophet brags about having sex with a 13 year old cousin in the Hadith, nor do I see an authentic Hadith stating he wants to 'suck on his tongue'. This is a clueless attempt at an argument and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Melcharaz and Savant what are you talking about? I am literally using the Bible to disagree with the statement and I have correctly done so. If there is a verse that says Jesus cannot be God in the Bible then Jesus is not God right?
If the bible has many contradictions in, then it isn't a reliable source is it? Also the description clear says that the Bible is the only reference that can be used
The term 'Christian' means follower of Christ.
I know that Jesus lived a very good life, I know that true Christians are those who follow his true teachings.
I know that Jesus spread the message of one God and I know that the Quran is the most accurate account of Jesus, even if the book came hundreds of years later.
Your example makes no sense. We both believe that Muhammed (PBUH) was a prophet and the last prophet. We don't agree on the caliphs after him. But that is beside the point.
The Christians who do believe in the trinity, believe that salvation is only through him. Ask any trinitarian, if you don't believe in Jesus being God, will you go to hell? They will say yes. Only a small minority don't believe that Jesus is God.
As most Christians believe in the trinity and all arguments go towards proving that, they do practise this belief. They pray to Jesus instead of the Father in most cases. Like saying Jesus Christ or Jesus on its own. They say Jesus help me or Jesus save me. Only in the Lords prayer do they refer to the Father.
They believe that Jesus was divine, that he was the son of God, son of Man and God all in one.
True Christians do not agree with the trinity, however those are the exceptions and exceptions do not make a rule. The vast majority of Christians believe in it and that is why the mainstream view in Christianity is to believe in the trinity.
Realistically, this debate is pointless. Pro has not even confirmed his position and forfeited every round. Plus this debate has been answered so many times previously.
Being a Muslim myself, has nothing to do with it. I am saying Jesus is not God. The principle is from the Christian belief who are the only believers who believe that Jesus is God. Therefore, I use the Bible, the nature of Jesus according to the Bible etc to self assess if Jesus is God or not.
Yes I agree, people have an inate understanding of God when they are born, a study was actually done on this. If you left a child on an island with no knowledge his first response would be that there is a higher power
If you compare the Quran with the Bible and co you can see the difference. Loads of books have no contradictions, correct. Loads of religious books and scriptures however? No, that is where it stops. Isn't explaining that something is not a contradiction the right thing to do? If the opponent accepts that explanation then job done right?
God is the creator of the universe. The Islamic God is also the creator of the universe. Unless there is a different definition to God, I conclude that they are both the same.
The same way I used those arguments, is the same way the Quran argument is. The opponent does not need to believe in it for me to use it. That's like saying, he needs to believe in the Big Bang for me to use that.
My argument about the Quran was a fair one. Con wanted physical proof of God and the Quran is the physical proof. It is from God, that is my claim. If the Quran is from God, then God exists.
I just don't like things going off this platform into the public view etc, I don't know why it's just a preference for me. You do you, if my username is in it, it is what it is
The Quran is the first thing to look at. Study it, look at the rules and regulations within it and see for yourself what kind of book it is, in it's entirety. Go to a mosque, ask the imam or other Muslims who know about Islam. Watch YouTube videos about the key beliefs etc. I am definitely not a scholar but I want to learn more and these things I would recommend. Also Hadith's are good to read as well.
Islam promises heaven for the believers but for the disbelievers it's hell. Hell does the torturing, it's not a little chamber, it's a beast. God created hell as a punishment for the disbelievers
Yes, that is the point. Obviously forcing someone to become Muslim is forbidden, but the clear guidance via the Quran is there plus the clear proof that we exist therefore God exists is also there. So it isn't God's fault that one ends up in hell, it is that individual who rejects the signs. If I keep on breaking the law, I will get a few warnings. Once those warnings are done and I keep on breaking the law after that, I get put in prison. If I keep on breaking the law after that, it would be a life sentence and I will most likely die in prison. It is the same principle you apply to hell.
Is it? Even if you know that the outcome will be eternal hell if you continue to disbelieve and be arrogant, then why would one be surprised that they are getting what they wanted?
I don't get your vote. I never only spoke about non Muslims not believing in hell. I said this 'This punishment is justified, you have your chance in this world to follow Islam, and it is down to a person's free will to do so if they choose. And if they don't, it is down to the same person. '.
That was my reasoning. 70, 80, 90 years on this earth to figure it out and if you reject it, the belief if you die as a disbeliever and go to hell. However if you accept it, or if you don't know too much about it, then you will be judged by God. This is the common Muslim belief, I don't understand where the 'knockdown' argument is.
This is a debate between a Muslim and an opponent. I think if someone tries to argue that Jesus is God, we will both believe that God exists therefore no need to state the presumption of God existing. Hope this helps!
Could any of you guys take action over BrotherD.Thomas? He keeps commenting unnecessary things under debates and I think he may be a bot. Please could you look into this issue.
Sure,
What do you want to do? It is the wrong way round, I want to be second which would fit the debate better
I don't get this site. How can I go second and Liam to go first?
I am still learning brother. I understand your concerns :)
Ok I'll try to use references properly next time then
I understand your point but at the end I did say everything is within the Tafsir.
'(as we are the first of the believers,) means, because we are the first of our people, the Egyptians, to believe. So he killed them all.'
This is Ibn Kathir, one of the best Arabic scholars who interpreted it as 'of his people'.
As well as this, Muslim means 'submitter'. By definition Adam was the first Muslim which again shows that no one after Adam can be the first Muslim ever. It doesn't say in the verses 'ever' it just says 'first of the believers'. All this evidence points to the verses specifically talking about the people at its time. With the Muhammed (PBUH) verse, it talked about his people in the very next verse, suggesting the former was also
If we take every verse literally within the Quran with no interpretation from the Tafsir nor from a linguistic/Arabic point of view, then certain phrases and sentences won't make sense to the English speaker. It is why we have the interpretations in the first place. First hand Arabic scholars who have studied the Arabic language break down each word and say what it is referring to.
It can be applied to every language. In French, there are certain phrases if we say literally they don't make sense.
I am contesting your vote based on this reason, I don't think you gave that a fair assessment taking in all factors aside from the point it is a different language that is translated into English. Especially if this is the only reason that you voted Con, on this one 'contradiction'.
Well the short description is this: I believe that the Quran contains no contradiction, Con has to prove that it does contain contradictions.
So it clearly states that Pro believes it doesn't contain contradictions and Con has to prove it does.
I just want to clear misconceptions, plus it is fun, it is just the point of the debate
I want to see if anyone else can do it. Plus those who think they can, will realise they can't hopefully and then change their ways. That is the aim!
People like you are already blind to the truth therefore I don't need to debate or deny your claims because they are nonsensical as they are. You are a little boy, no two ways about it
I am not entertaining this conversation, you are not worth my time little guy
You quoted a hadith, not the Quran. So your original claim was false. Anyway, as I said not an authentic hadith, never happened. These fools, never learn smh
And Aisha was not a male, but a female. So that claim was wrong to.
And it is the same argument with the marriage of Aisha and the Prophet, pathetic, it has been debunked many many times.
Trolling is weird my guy, especially when you are wrong for every single thing lol
The Quran has nothing to do with the Prophets accounts because the Quran was written by God. Now you are making disgusting claims about the Prophet which you have no evidence of. I don't see where the Prophet brags about having sex with a 13 year old cousin in the Hadith, nor do I see an authentic Hadith stating he wants to 'suck on his tongue'. This is a clueless attempt at an argument and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Melcharaz and Savant what are you talking about? I am literally using the Bible to disagree with the statement and I have correctly done so. If there is a verse that says Jesus cannot be God in the Bible then Jesus is not God right?
If the bible has many contradictions in, then it isn't a reliable source is it? Also the description clear says that the Bible is the only reference that can be used
Bro carry on, you blocked me so it's clear you don't care for my points
Don't get what I did wrong lmao to get blocked
Maybe you misinterpreted my answer.
The term 'Christian' means follower of Christ.
I know that Jesus lived a very good life, I know that true Christians are those who follow his true teachings.
I know that Jesus spread the message of one God and I know that the Quran is the most accurate account of Jesus, even if the book came hundreds of years later.
Your example makes no sense. We both believe that Muhammed (PBUH) was a prophet and the last prophet. We don't agree on the caliphs after him. But that is beside the point.
The Christians who do believe in the trinity, believe that salvation is only through him. Ask any trinitarian, if you don't believe in Jesus being God, will you go to hell? They will say yes. Only a small minority don't believe that Jesus is God.
As most Christians believe in the trinity and all arguments go towards proving that, they do practise this belief. They pray to Jesus instead of the Father in most cases. Like saying Jesus Christ or Jesus on its own. They say Jesus help me or Jesus save me. Only in the Lords prayer do they refer to the Father.
They believe that Jesus was divine, that he was the son of God, son of Man and God all in one.
This is a belief most Christians practise.
True Christians do not agree with the trinity, however those are the exceptions and exceptions do not make a rule. The vast majority of Christians believe in it and that is why the mainstream view in Christianity is to believe in the trinity.
Realistically, this debate is pointless. Pro has not even confirmed his position and forfeited every round. Plus this debate has been answered so many times previously.
Being a Muslim myself, has nothing to do with it. I am saying Jesus is not God. The principle is from the Christian belief who are the only believers who believe that Jesus is God. Therefore, I use the Bible, the nature of Jesus according to the Bible etc to self assess if Jesus is God or not.
No I never missed a word.
Muslims believe Jesus is the messiah, correct. He is referred as a messiah in a few verses as well.
I can't lie, I know nothing about boxing lol
Yes I agree, people have an inate understanding of God when they are born, a study was actually done on this. If you left a child on an island with no knowledge his first response would be that there is a higher power
Thank you very much, I appreciate it
Probably one of the first people since I joined this site that actually commended me
If you compare the Quran with the Bible and co you can see the difference. Loads of books have no contradictions, correct. Loads of religious books and scriptures however? No, that is where it stops. Isn't explaining that something is not a contradiction the right thing to do? If the opponent accepts that explanation then job done right?
God is the creator of the universe. The Islamic God is also the creator of the universe. Unless there is a different definition to God, I conclude that they are both the same.
The same way I used those arguments, is the same way the Quran argument is. The opponent does not need to believe in it for me to use it. That's like saying, he needs to believe in the Big Bang for me to use that.
My argument about the Quran was a fair one. Con wanted physical proof of God and the Quran is the physical proof. It is from God, that is my claim. If the Quran is from God, then God exists.
I just don't like things going off this platform into the public view etc, I don't know why it's just a preference for me. You do you, if my username is in it, it is what it is
I would not say it is one God. But that could be saved for a debate.
Yes I agree. Trinity and Tawhid are two different words.
The Quran is the first thing to look at. Study it, look at the rules and regulations within it and see for yourself what kind of book it is, in it's entirety. Go to a mosque, ask the imam or other Muslims who know about Islam. Watch YouTube videos about the key beliefs etc. I am definitely not a scholar but I want to learn more and these things I would recommend. Also Hadith's are good to read as well.
To answer your questions, from my understanding,
Islam promises heaven for the believers but for the disbelievers it's hell. Hell does the torturing, it's not a little chamber, it's a beast. God created hell as a punishment for the disbelievers
Oh yes, by that I totally agree. There is no trinity in Islam.
Allah is God in Islam, the superior being, the highest being, the most merciful, the most forgiving, the supreme being
Yes, that is the point. Obviously forcing someone to become Muslim is forbidden, but the clear guidance via the Quran is there plus the clear proof that we exist therefore God exists is also there. So it isn't God's fault that one ends up in hell, it is that individual who rejects the signs. If I keep on breaking the law, I will get a few warnings. Once those warnings are done and I keep on breaking the law after that, I get put in prison. If I keep on breaking the law after that, it would be a life sentence and I will most likely die in prison. It is the same principle you apply to hell.
Is it? Even if you know that the outcome will be eternal hell if you continue to disbelieve and be arrogant, then why would one be surprised that they are getting what they wanted?
I don't get your vote. I never only spoke about non Muslims not believing in hell. I said this 'This punishment is justified, you have your chance in this world to follow Islam, and it is down to a person's free will to do so if they choose. And if they don't, it is down to the same person. '.
That was my reasoning. 70, 80, 90 years on this earth to figure it out and if you reject it, the belief if you die as a disbeliever and go to hell. However if you accept it, or if you don't know too much about it, then you will be judged by God. This is the common Muslim belief, I don't understand where the 'knockdown' argument is.
Yes, what Lancelot said.
Be sure to not include my username if possible
This is a debate between a Muslim and an opponent. I think if someone tries to argue that Jesus is God, we will both believe that God exists therefore no need to state the presumption of God existing. Hope this helps!
Lol, I'm only joking
Consult me if you feel intimidated by my opponent.
It doesn't give me an option to delete the vote, only to report.
That was quick
In my vote, I stated 'Con wins this point'. I meant Pro