Jesus is God
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This debate will be about whether Jesus Christ is GOD or not.
Only reference that can be used is the Bible.
If I need to change terms, please message me.
1. Is jealous (Exodus 34:14)2. Is not a man (Numbers 23:19)3. Is to be worshipped alone (Exodus 20:3)4. Will not share glory (Isaiah 42:8)5. Is the creator alone (Isaiah 44:24)6. Is the only savoir (Isaiah 43:10-11)7. Is above (better than) mankind (Isaiah 55:8-9)8. Cannot be measured (Isaiah 66:1)9. God is a spirit (John 4:24)
Again, the description could on for a while, but for the sake of this debate I want to show that the Son was not the same as God or was a second/lesser God.
There is a concept that is widely overlooked and that is the separation between the spirit (personality) and the flesh (body).
Jesus was a human, he ate, drank, slept etc . . . .. . .This proves that Jesus in fact had a God and God does not cry out loud for God to save him because God can do that himself. If Jesus was God, he would not have wanted the father to save him from this crucifixion because he could easily do it himself.
Are these qualities of God? God cannot be jealous because that is a negative attribute and God is perfect has not got a negative attribute. So this is a contradiction.
Why do Christians worship Jesus and all the things he did on earth with his physical body which is not divine when God is to be worshipped alone?
So the Son is not equal to the father? . . . .. . . If it referred to his body then Jesus would say 'My father is greater is my body', not I.
To go to heaven, you need to believe that Jesus is God. To go to heaven, I need to believe in the creator of all things, that is where the difference lies.
It is the main argument for Christians to try and prove that Jesus is God. So not underlooked, in fact the opposite is true because it still isn't logical. There is no proof, Jesus does not admit this in the Bible. . . .. . .Until you can prove the Bible is a viable and reliable source, all quotes that you present in favour of Jesus being God don't matter.
Propitiation means a payment. Jesus made the payment for our sins. He did this on purpose and didn't want to save himself from the crucifixion.
So to answer who died, it was Jesus Christ for sure. Did God die? No way, he cannot die, but his vehicle did die and he wanted it to go for all of mankind. This will then bring more light into scriptures such as:
God is worshipped alone. We do not worship a man nor a body. We worship the spirit that is in that body.
Good question! And one that stumps many bible scholars. The Son is not God. The Son is the flesh or body like you said. Here is a reference:
It's not my argument about how valid is the Bible. My argument is that Jesus is God and it can be proved with the Bible. Again, you knew the standards.
Right off the bat, using the Bible as the only source is a big advantage to PRO. I'm not sure why CON would agree to use it as a reliable source, it would be like PRO agreeing to use the Quran. CON sort of argues outside the scope of the debate using historical events, so I will just focus on the bits in the Bible.
Anyway, PRO doesn't argue for the Trinity and seems to be closer to the Nestorianism camp. This actually doesn't hold them back as much as I expected, and it keeps them from having to counter the usual criticisms of the Trinity. CON does not argue that the Bible contradicts itself and is unreliable, which would have bee their strongest opportunity given that some verses seem to support them and some their opponent. In the absence of such an argument, PRO's spirit explanation is the only thing that explains all the evidence given. Once PRO argues that Jesus has the spirit of God but is part human (though not in the conventional Trinitarian sense), CON has to address that. Unfortunately, all the evidence CON gives from that point on is consistent with PRO's view of Jesus. So CON would have had to show that Jesus doesn't have God's spirit at all or reframe the debate.
In short, PRO's argument explains CON's evidence. CON's argument does not explain PRO's evidence.
Interesting subject
Melcharaz and Savant what are you talking about? I am literally using the Bible to disagree with the statement and I have correctly done so. If there is a verse that says Jesus cannot be God in the Bible then Jesus is not God right?
i agree, we know that God wont contridict himself, if there is any votes against pro it is simply based on personal logic and personal understanding of the voters. feelings and ignorance dont determine truth.
If the bible has many contradictions in, then it isn't a reliable source is it? Also the description clear says that the Bible is the only reference that can be used
Savant,
Forget about the Bible fool Melcharaz and his "Convoluted Bible Babble" that he doesn't even understand when challenged against it, whereas the Bible does specifically show Jesus as the Son of God, AND as God in a CONTRADICTION form!
JESUS BEING THE SON OF GOD IN THE BIBLE:
“Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” (John 20:17)
"Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know." (Acts 2:22)
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus," (1 Timothy 2:5)
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JESUS ACTUALLY BEING GOD IN THE BIBLE:
“Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness 'of our God and Savior Jesus Christ' have received a faith as precious as ours.” (2 Peter 1:1
"By common confession, 'great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh,' Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.” (1 Timothy 3:15-16)
“Thomas answered and said to Him, “my lord and 'MY GOD'(John 20:28)
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Now, if you want to use the disturbing mish-mash of the Trinity Doctrine, then hang on to your underwear!
As the only TRUE Christian upon this Religion Forum, this is why I want Barney to remove this debate that shows absolute CONTRADICTION of Jesus being God, and only the Son of God, whereas we Christians have a hard enough time in defending our faith!
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With the Bible as the only source, this seems like an easy win for Pro. It's literally one of the main tenets of Christianity.
BARNEY,
DAVIDAZ biblically proves that Jesus IS GOD: "1 Timothy 3:16; And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
RAYHAN16 biblically proves Jesus is NOT GOD: "Also a reference to that above paragraph can be JOHN 14:28 where Jesus says 'My father is greater than I'. This shows that Jesus and the father are not equal."
Therefore, the Bible explicitly relating to Jesus being God, and not God at the same time, is CONTRADICTING, and where there is contradiction, there are FALSHOODS, and where there are FALSEHOODS, there are LIES, because both contradicting FALSEHOODS cannot be true at the same time! GET IT?
As a TRUE Christian, do the simple math, this debate is questioning my faith and pseudo-christians as well, therefore STOP THIS DEBATE NOW, where "mums the word" on this ungodly topic!!!!!
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Bro carry on, you blocked me so it's clear you don't care for my points
jesus= God has become salvation.
christ= anointed vessel.
dont confuse the vessel with God. Jesus Is God (its literally his name) but christ is not God.
or if you dont understand the difference, think of this.
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
was Christ (the man) before all things? no, but God was. Jesus, the son.
I’ve debated this before, and it can be a very fun topic. Sadly, it gets long winded, which discourages voters.