Now what Muslims believe is when the day of judgement is going to come, Jesus is going to say to those who worshipped him to 'get out of his sight'. He gave a message and the people corrupted it. Obviously you will not believe that, however this is just a warning. If you do not believe it, then we will see when it comes to it.
Can you send the video again please? I seem to have lost it
Secondly,
Islam is completely different. These things that we believe in, the 5 pillars, these are the fundamental things which are not confusing, everyone thinks the same on them and are explicitly said that a human must do these things at the very basics. However, the trinity is nothing like these. Each Christian gives a different answer. I have had the EED argument, I have had the water argument, I have had the forefathers argument, I have had the body argument, so much. This is a fundamental belief. It depends on salvation. Name me 1 thing in Islam that is like this and depends on salvation. There is none.
This illusion argument as well. Seems like Christians have gotten confused. Everyone is human temporarily, we then die. Jesus did the same. Everyone is born, Jesus was the same. He was a man yes, but had humanistic qualities. The argument of being 100% human and 100% God is a paradox in itself. Jesus is Gods creation. The water analogy-https://www.apostolictheology.org/2014/02/why-trinity-is-not-like-water-in-any-way.html
Yes I agree with the last bit to an extent. People do change religions. I watch speakers corner, debate videos. I do not think 1 Christian video that I watched, the Christian has come off better than the Muslim. And these videos are on different channels. some being non-Muslim channels too. I pick the religion that makes the most sense, the book in which has no contradictions, no errors etc.
No one knows the authors of the 4 gospels, these are anonymous. The earliest manuscript for the new testament was in the 4th century. We can see errors and contradictions in the Bible, Jesus does not admit to being God, nor did any Prophet worship him. There is no trinity in the Bible however Christians constantly are like its there.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus
Muslim : Is Jesus the son of Mary.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who created Mary?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian: Jesus
Muslim : Jesus is the begotten son.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who is his father?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Jesus is a servant of God.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Jesus died on the cross?
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who resurrected him?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Is Jesus a messenger.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who sent him?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim: Did Jesus worship while on earth.
Christian: Yes
Muslim: Whom did he worship?
Christian: God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Did God have a beginning?
Christian : No
Muslim: Then who was born on 25/DEC?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Is Jesus God.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Where's God?
Christian : In heaven.
Muslim : How many Gods are there in heaven?
Christian : Only one God.
Muslim : Where's Jesus?
Christian : He is seated on the right hand of his father.
Muslim : Then how many are they in heaven?
Christian : Only one God.
Muslim : Then how many seats?
Christian : one
Muslim : where's Jesus?
Christian: Seated next to God.
It is not accurate comparing something which is part of humanity to God. God is above humanity. He is the creator.
Now if Jesus relies on God for his existence, how is he God. Think about it. Muslims believe that God has not inherited these powers or attributes. They have been there with Him, always. Jesus is not an attribute, he was a human. You may disagree, but this is facts. He was a human. Jesus relied on the father, the father never relied on anything else. Tell me what makes sense?
Also you never answered the part where I talked about, this is a huge issue and my salvation relies upon it. Why is it so argued upon, it should be categorically clear otherwise the Christian God is selfish and tells people to rely on blind faith.
The same water cannot be solid, liquid and gas at the same time, but this is what the trinity is. All 3 components are God, fully divine to 100% , yet Jesus is 100% human as well. If we remove Jesus, the father will exist. If we remove the holy spirit, the father will exist. If we remove the father, the other 2 parts of the trinity won't. Jesus relies on the Father. Now if Jesus relies on the father, to do whatever, to live, to do miracles etc, then he is dependant. And if Jesus is dependant, then he is not God. It is as simple as that.
Yes I know there is a difference of opinion, however my salvation relies on this, so why is it not simple? Why is there such a huge difference of opinion amongst Christians when it is the most fundamental teachings in my opinion. There is no mention of the trinity in the Bible, that they are some co-equal God. It just does not work.
My point is this. Bible contains errors and contradictions, yes Con has 'answered' some however I need to have a rebuttle. The Quran does not. Both are the main books of the religions. Thus, this makes Islam more true than Christianity. As the basis of Islam is to follow the Quran and the basis of the latter is to follow Christianity. Nothing new
I do acknowledge I got the quotes from the atheist site, however it should not really affect it. Plus, round 2 I copied the quotes from the actual bible NIV so hopefully that should be enough
and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.- Galatations 5:21
How many Christians nowadays are drunk? Many, many, and many more.
You are right. The same thing will happen to Islam. This is a prophecy. This is to show that it is one of the last days on earth. People will sin, there are many other prophecies and miracles which have actually come true. This prophecy will signify the end. Then the day of judgement will arrive. However, if a religion changes overtime to meet the expectations of society, then it is a flawed religion. People are not following the religion itself, just the society who tells the religion to be a certain way. Doesn't that make the religion weak? It surely does. We have a preserved Quran, one that has not changed and will never change. The 1.8 billion of us, a quarter of humanity will not change our religion. In the future however, as sad as it is, it will be.
This is where you are going wrong. You are taking the societal expectations of today and forcing it onto religion. My religion is not going to change for you. My religion will not change for society. There are 1.8 Billion Muslims on this earth, they will say the same. Religions do not die if they do not meet the change in the times, if they do change such as that Christianity has changed, then the religion itself, the meaning and the influence is all over the place. No one would take a religion seriously if it changes just to meet standards. This is why Christianity is not taken seriously, even the pope has changed the value of the religion.
Anyway lets address your points.
'its still her choice, a man runs a heightened risk of having domestic troubles with more than 1 wife too. Maybe this is heightened more for a woman but its still a double standard. We have laws in place to protect these women from domestic abuse, as we do men.'
A woman may want more than 1 husband, it is her choice. No one is stopping her. But we look at the domestic cases and even with 1 husband, the abuse is much. After the Euros 2020, when England lost to Italy on pens, the domestic issues were through the roof. That is with 1 husband as well. Plus, sure, that woman may feel like she can handle it. She can have 4 husbands. However these 4 husbands will 99% not be Muslim, as they will be going against their own religion. She sins if she has more than 1 husband, it is as simple as that.
'why does she need to have 2 children from each father? didnt prophet Muhammad take on baron women? Women handle kids better than men do, on average.'
Because the father would normally want 2 or more kids right? And if the father wants 3 kids then its 3. If the father wants 0 kids, then he is just in it for the sex right according to your logic?
not all men are primitive.
Most. I am generalizing as I am talking about the vast majority.
'if all of them work they can pay a babysitter. All of these arguments you made just make it more of an inconvenience for a woman to have more than 1 husband. But its also more of an inconvenience for a man to have more than 1 wife. Even if we grant its more of an issue for women, its still definitely doable, and why shouldn't she if she wanted? all the issues you pose aren't major problems which cannot be overcome in the modern day.
I am not saying that a woman cannot do it. She can, however she is not following Islam. It is the same with Christianity. It teaches to not drink alcohol, yet it is now normalised. The religion is weak because it changed to fit the standards of society. Islam has not changed, will not change. I know you do not agree with many things in Islam however it is a double standard in your religion. Did a certain Prophet in Christianity not keep slaves? Yes this is another point, but you need to stop dismissing your own religion.
Now, I do not find this disgusting. I find this empowering for women. They have rights, they are treated with respect. Why do you want to change my religion to fit your standards of how society should be? If you were born 50 years ago, you would not say these things.
Please do not infuse double standards in this conversation as I am not changing my religion to fit a few Christians narratives of how it should be.
Genetic testing. Why do we have to change a religion and the rules of a religion to make it fit into modern society? There are rules for a reason. I will give more reasons to why women cannot have more than 1 husband. And I am going to copy it from my other comment. Not just genetic testing but also
-Men can be more abusive to a vulnerable wife when there is 4 of them and 1 of her
-Women are more emotional in biology so they would not cope with 8 children (2 from each father) plus sex every week and 8 children to give birth to, could be more
-Women need to work too to look after her children, if you ask why can't the fathers do it, who will look after the kids?
-The men are naturally more stronger, more dominant so there will be fights which would pressure the woman.
Yes and I agree with that thinking as well. Groups like ISIS and terror groups which are similar, want to take the out of context verses and say we need to kill and fight. This is not Islam. I commend you for not following this ideology.
You clearly said this in your penultimate comment.
'There is nothing to debate in that new challenge, "Islam promotes terrorism" with you being pro for that statement...as I agree with it, Islam does promote terrorism. Declined again.'
'as I agree with it, Islam does promote terrorism'
No, women are not allowed, many reasons, all explained in this debate, first argument. I will reiterate it for you
-For 1400 years, there has been no DNA testing, how would you know who the father is?
-Men can be more abusive to a vulnerable wife when there is 4 of them and 1 of her
-Women are more emotional in biology so they would not cope with 8 children (2 from each father) plus sex every week and 8 children to give birth to, could be more
-Women need to work too to look after her children, if you ask why can't the fathers do it, who will look after the kids?
-The men are naturally more stronger, more dominant so there will be fights which would pressure the woman.
Many reasons,
Secondly, how many women are Prophets. Interesting question.
Why does a woman need to be a Prophet to show equality? A Prophet is one that receives a message from God and spreads it. God picks the Prophets. Mary is a mother to a Prophet, 13 women are wives to a very important prophet. Also if a woman wants to spread Islam and share the message, she would have gotten ridiculed back in those times. Being a Prophet was a dangerous job. The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) endured so much abuse. He had so much abuse it is hard to imagine, yet he still carried on. A woman being more emotional, more chance of abuse, it would simply not work out. Plus it is God's choice. Was there any Prophets that were women in the Bible or the Torah? Nope.
The Prophet was an exception. As I already stated, God told the Prophet to marry 12/13 of these wives. Men now, cannot marry more than 4. As it states marry women of your choice, 2, 3 or 4, however if you cannot cope then only marry 1.
The reason why the Prophet (PBUH) married more than 4 wives was because nearly all were widows. The Prophet also married a woman who was 20 years older than him.
She was not groomed, the Prophet had 13 wives. Treated each one equal. Never forced anything upon anyone. He was not in the marriage for sex. God commanded for him to marry 12/13 wives as nearly all of them were widows as their husbands fought wars and got killed. Then the Prophet married all of them, not for sex or being a pedo, but to look after them and give them a way better life than before. Some even say she was 19 years old, not 9. We do not know exactly the age, people ponder. She was accused of adultery and the punishment for that is death. However she denied these accusations and the Prophet believed her and he backed her. So why would he do this if he was a pedo? You may say for sex, however he was not in it for the sex. It is so much more than that. And he would have killed her if he was in it for the sex because he still had 12 wives right?
Really, search up the marriage and his intentions, you would know a lot better
It is clear that you have no evidence for your claims, that her father wanted political power etc. I suggest you read an autobiography on her life, I suggest you watch videos on her marriage and her life. You can then see if the Prophet was a paedophile or not, shame on you for even thinking that. He provided for her, he never shouted at her, he never hit her, he never abused her, he never raped her, he took care of her, he never used her for power nor for sex. This is a misconception to say the least. Watch a few unbiased videos on the marriage.
Physical tests, mental tests etc. She was very mature for her age, she gave consent to marriage, she was a known for her intellectual capacity. And girls did menstruate then as well at age 9, which is why she got married.
Thats your standards tho. In Islam the legal age for marriage is not a set age. We do tests to see if they are mentally ready and physically ready. Yes there will be some cases where they aren't mentally nor physically ready at 16, so we have to wait till they are. 18,19,20,21 etc.
There are a number of factors, from context of the times to being physically and mentally ready.
Plus this incident does not oppress women, its a red herring. Women are not oppressed because they can get married when they are physically and mentally ready.
If you watched the video and I'm sure you did, the guy said even the enemies of the Prophet did not question this because this was a norm in society. And thinking changes when society changes. 500 years ago, girls were not even entitled to education in the West. This is working class girls. Now they are, norms of s society changes but you cannot expect for every age of society to reach your norm
It does not make him a pedo, a pedo is one that preys on little girls and wants sex from them. The Prophet did not just want sex from Aisha
To reassure it, he committed no sin
Again, who are you to decide the age of marriage?
and for 4:3, you misunderstood
Men are not allowed to cause pain to their wives
Men are not allowed to leave a mark
Men are not allowed to hit the face
How is this domestic abuse when men are not allowed to do these things?
A simple tap is all they can do, unless you want to say this is abuse?
And that is exactly why you should consult a Muslim, you did the right thing, let me clear it all up for you
The Prophet never endorsed any paedophilia thing, maybe you got that from the marriage with Aisha?
These are the points
-The Prophet married Aisha at 6 and consummated at 9. Why did he wait 3 years if he was a pedo?
-The context of times is very important. 1400 years ago, it was very common for girls to get married at a young age because when a girl hits puberty, they are considered more mature and an adult.
-If we look at the Prophets (SAW) life then we can understand he committed no sin. Why is it just 1 event that may seem a little shady?
-100 years ago in the UK, the legal age to marry was 12, imagine 1400 years ago
That is that sorted
Now the marrying underage girls part
Who are you to say that a girl is underage? A girl is more mature physically and mentally at the age of puberty. Why are you restricting it to the age of 16 or 18 or even 21. It is the context of the times my friend.
Plus the verse you were actually talking about, does not just give rules on women who have not completed the menstruation, but the women who have as well, no singling out.
Then we move onto 4:34
Men are not allowed to leave a mark on their wives, nor cause them pain nor hit the face. Now can you interpret the word 'strike' taking all these into context. It is just a simple tap.
There we go, all misconceptions out of the window, thanks for consulting a Muslim, proud to be of assistance
A non-Muslim can argue what he wants about Islam, can be true can be false.
This is why there are challenges set by many scholars,
Can you find a single contradiction in the Quran?
Can you find where the Quran advocates terrorism and oppression to women and so on?
Muslims know fully well that no one can find these, so the challenger can try but fail.
A non-Muslim can judge the religion, if it is not a fair judgement then Muslims can explain why it is not fair,
If it is a fair judgement, then that is fine
There has to be a definitive answer, Islam can be or not be the truth
If any non-Muslims wants to say why it is not the truth and give reasons then so be it, he can do so.
However a Muslim will always refute his claims and there is no agree to disagree, as there has to be an answer
Right, so as you have not provided any evidence for your claims nor have you given your point of view on how the universe was created, you have not got my permission to talk to me. Once you provide that evidence and point of view then expect an answer.
First of all, religion gives you hope. Religion is there for peace of mind, for a purpose in life. Atheism does not.
Besides, who has more to lose here
Me or you?
Lets say there is no God (I do not believe this but it is hypothetical), nothing would happen to me, I would die and that would be it.
Then lets say there is a God, and Islam was the truth. You would be in a sticky situation my friend,
We can also discount the theory that nothing created the universe as nothing does not exist.
A dependant entity cannot create the universe because it would be an infinite regress.
The entity that created the universe must have no beginning or else it would be dependant of time
This just discounts the theory of nothing creating the universe, the multiverse, any dependant thing that you can think of right now cannot create the universe.
It is illogical to say anything other than God created the universe.
Unless you can give me a sufficient answer, religion is the truth
The assassins I already went over. Very quickly, not following Islam, like ISIS, should be condemned
That is that out of the way
Then Khalid, you never gave me anything that he did which was a terrorist act. Remember the definitions, and you can give the terrorist acts that Khalid had committed.
You had 3 rounds with 10k characters each. You had the last round with 9000 characters left. I had the same amount of characters as you. I never said the only non-aggressive ones are authentic, I just said that terrorism is not supported. There was no response to self defence as whiteflame had already voted.
A lot of suicide bombers. However, this does not make sense.
How many school shootings would it take to blame the US. It would take a lot. However people are blaming the guns, rightly so
Think of the guns in this scenario as a red herring.
It is the same with Islam. Yes there are some verses that talk about war, however these are only in extreme circumstances. Peoples minds and influence on the scripture is the red herring in this situation, which is why groups like ISIS exist.
It is very canny actually. There is actually one thing in common between groups like ISIS and the islamophobes. They both think that Islam is a violent religion.
I would strongly encourage you to watch this video. It is very insightful and not that long, just less than 15 mins.
It could solve all that you are asking, so I am asking you to watch it and take it in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy9tNyp03M0
The religion of Islam has its laws. Of course when people do not follow its laws then it is not the fault of the religion, it is the fault of the person. So what else am I supposed to say? If my opponent brings something which is allowed in Islam and its Muslims follow it, then fair point. But if not, then of course I am going to say the person is not following its laws.
I will give you an example.
A man commits a murder in the name of the UK. He gets convicted. We have a debate about the UK. You bring up this incident and say this man killed in the name of the UK which makes the UK accountable. However the man did the deed so the man is accountable, and there is no need to investigate the UK because of this man.
Please vote on this one if you can,
thanks
Full forfeit
Clearly we have a difference of opinion.
Now what Muslims believe is when the day of judgement is going to come, Jesus is going to say to those who worshipped him to 'get out of his sight'. He gave a message and the people corrupted it. Obviously you will not believe that, however this is just a warning. If you do not believe it, then we will see when it comes to it.
I will try to watch the video tomorrow, gotta watch Arsenal vs Orlando City today. Prediction Gabriel Jesus gonna score a double
How about that last part, where is God in heaven? Where does he sit?
Can you send the video again please? I seem to have lost it
Secondly,
Islam is completely different. These things that we believe in, the 5 pillars, these are the fundamental things which are not confusing, everyone thinks the same on them and are explicitly said that a human must do these things at the very basics. However, the trinity is nothing like these. Each Christian gives a different answer. I have had the EED argument, I have had the water argument, I have had the forefathers argument, I have had the body argument, so much. This is a fundamental belief. It depends on salvation. Name me 1 thing in Islam that is like this and depends on salvation. There is none.
This illusion argument as well. Seems like Christians have gotten confused. Everyone is human temporarily, we then die. Jesus did the same. Everyone is born, Jesus was the same. He was a man yes, but had humanistic qualities. The argument of being 100% human and 100% God is a paradox in itself. Jesus is Gods creation. The water analogy-https://www.apostolictheology.org/2014/02/why-trinity-is-not-like-water-in-any-way.html
Yes I agree with the last bit to an extent. People do change religions. I watch speakers corner, debate videos. I do not think 1 Christian video that I watched, the Christian has come off better than the Muslim. And these videos are on different channels. some being non-Muslim channels too. I pick the religion that makes the most sense, the book in which has no contradictions, no errors etc.
No one knows the authors of the 4 gospels, these are anonymous. The earliest manuscript for the new testament was in the 4th century. We can see errors and contradictions in the Bible, Jesus does not admit to being God, nor did any Prophet worship him. There is no trinity in the Bible however Christians constantly are like its there.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus
Muslim : Is Jesus the son of Mary.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who created Mary?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian: Jesus
Muslim : Jesus is the begotten son.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who is his father?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Jesus is a servant of God.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Jesus died on the cross?
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who resurrected him?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Is Jesus a messenger.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who sent him?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim: Did Jesus worship while on earth.
Christian: Yes
Muslim: Whom did he worship?
Christian: God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Did God have a beginning?
Christian : No
Muslim: Then who was born on 25/DEC?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Is Jesus God.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Where's God?
Christian : In heaven.
Muslim : How many Gods are there in heaven?
Christian : Only one God.
Muslim : Where's Jesus?
Christian : He is seated on the right hand of his father.
Muslim : Then how many are they in heaven?
Christian : Only one God.
Muslim : Then how many seats?
Christian : one
Muslim : where's Jesus?
Christian: Seated next to God.
This is an interesting conversation
It is not accurate comparing something which is part of humanity to God. God is above humanity. He is the creator.
Now if Jesus relies on God for his existence, how is he God. Think about it. Muslims believe that God has not inherited these powers or attributes. They have been there with Him, always. Jesus is not an attribute, he was a human. You may disagree, but this is facts. He was a human. Jesus relied on the father, the father never relied on anything else. Tell me what makes sense?
Also you never answered the part where I talked about, this is a huge issue and my salvation relies upon it. Why is it so argued upon, it should be categorically clear otherwise the Christian God is selfish and tells people to rely on blind faith.
Bad analogy.
The same water cannot be solid, liquid and gas at the same time, but this is what the trinity is. All 3 components are God, fully divine to 100% , yet Jesus is 100% human as well. If we remove Jesus, the father will exist. If we remove the holy spirit, the father will exist. If we remove the father, the other 2 parts of the trinity won't. Jesus relies on the Father. Now if Jesus relies on the father, to do whatever, to live, to do miracles etc, then he is dependant. And if Jesus is dependant, then he is not God. It is as simple as that.
Yes I know there is a difference of opinion, however my salvation relies on this, so why is it not simple? Why is there such a huge difference of opinion amongst Christians when it is the most fundamental teachings in my opinion. There is no mention of the trinity in the Bible, that they are some co-equal God. It just does not work.
My point is this. Bible contains errors and contradictions, yes Con has 'answered' some however I need to have a rebuttle. The Quran does not. Both are the main books of the religions. Thus, this makes Islam more true than Christianity. As the basis of Islam is to follow the Quran and the basis of the latter is to follow Christianity. Nothing new
I do acknowledge I got the quotes from the atheist site, however it should not really affect it. Plus, round 2 I copied the quotes from the actual bible NIV so hopefully that should be enough
How could I plagiarize quotes? It is written in your Bible. It is not plagiarism as we know I never wrote it, it's in the bible. Stupid point to make
And Jesus called a woman a dog?
and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.- Galatations 5:21
How many Christians nowadays are drunk? Many, many, and many more.
You are right. The same thing will happen to Islam. This is a prophecy. This is to show that it is one of the last days on earth. People will sin, there are many other prophecies and miracles which have actually come true. This prophecy will signify the end. Then the day of judgement will arrive. However, if a religion changes overtime to meet the expectations of society, then it is a flawed religion. People are not following the religion itself, just the society who tells the religion to be a certain way. Doesn't that make the religion weak? It surely does. We have a preserved Quran, one that has not changed and will never change. The 1.8 billion of us, a quarter of humanity will not change our religion. In the future however, as sad as it is, it will be.
This is where you are going wrong. You are taking the societal expectations of today and forcing it onto religion. My religion is not going to change for you. My religion will not change for society. There are 1.8 Billion Muslims on this earth, they will say the same. Religions do not die if they do not meet the change in the times, if they do change such as that Christianity has changed, then the religion itself, the meaning and the influence is all over the place. No one would take a religion seriously if it changes just to meet standards. This is why Christianity is not taken seriously, even the pope has changed the value of the religion.
Anyway lets address your points.
'its still her choice, a man runs a heightened risk of having domestic troubles with more than 1 wife too. Maybe this is heightened more for a woman but its still a double standard. We have laws in place to protect these women from domestic abuse, as we do men.'
A woman may want more than 1 husband, it is her choice. No one is stopping her. But we look at the domestic cases and even with 1 husband, the abuse is much. After the Euros 2020, when England lost to Italy on pens, the domestic issues were through the roof. That is with 1 husband as well. Plus, sure, that woman may feel like she can handle it. She can have 4 husbands. However these 4 husbands will 99% not be Muslim, as they will be going against their own religion. She sins if she has more than 1 husband, it is as simple as that.
'why does she need to have 2 children from each father? didnt prophet Muhammad take on baron women? Women handle kids better than men do, on average.'
Because the father would normally want 2 or more kids right? And if the father wants 3 kids then its 3. If the father wants 0 kids, then he is just in it for the sex right according to your logic?
not all men are primitive.
Most. I am generalizing as I am talking about the vast majority.
'if all of them work they can pay a babysitter. All of these arguments you made just make it more of an inconvenience for a woman to have more than 1 husband. But its also more of an inconvenience for a man to have more than 1 wife. Even if we grant its more of an issue for women, its still definitely doable, and why shouldn't she if she wanted? all the issues you pose aren't major problems which cannot be overcome in the modern day.
I am not saying that a woman cannot do it. She can, however she is not following Islam. It is the same with Christianity. It teaches to not drink alcohol, yet it is now normalised. The religion is weak because it changed to fit the standards of society. Islam has not changed, will not change. I know you do not agree with many things in Islam however it is a double standard in your religion. Did a certain Prophet in Christianity not keep slaves? Yes this is another point, but you need to stop dismissing your own religion.
Now, I do not find this disgusting. I find this empowering for women. They have rights, they are treated with respect. Why do you want to change my religion to fit your standards of how society should be? If you were born 50 years ago, you would not say these things.
Please do not infuse double standards in this conversation as I am not changing my religion to fit a few Christians narratives of how it should be.
Good day
I do refute your arguments.
Genetic testing. Why do we have to change a religion and the rules of a religion to make it fit into modern society? There are rules for a reason. I will give more reasons to why women cannot have more than 1 husband. And I am going to copy it from my other comment. Not just genetic testing but also
-Men can be more abusive to a vulnerable wife when there is 4 of them and 1 of her
-Women are more emotional in biology so they would not cope with 8 children (2 from each father) plus sex every week and 8 children to give birth to, could be more
-Women need to work too to look after her children, if you ask why can't the fathers do it, who will look after the kids?
-The men are naturally more stronger, more dominant so there will be fights which would pressure the woman.
Yes and I agree with that thinking as well. Groups like ISIS and terror groups which are similar, want to take the out of context verses and say we need to kill and fight. This is not Islam. I commend you for not following this ideology.
You clearly said this in your penultimate comment.
'There is nothing to debate in that new challenge, "Islam promotes terrorism" with you being pro for that statement...as I agree with it, Islam does promote terrorism. Declined again.'
'as I agree with it, Islam does promote terrorism'
No, women are not allowed, many reasons, all explained in this debate, first argument. I will reiterate it for you
-For 1400 years, there has been no DNA testing, how would you know who the father is?
-Men can be more abusive to a vulnerable wife when there is 4 of them and 1 of her
-Women are more emotional in biology so they would not cope with 8 children (2 from each father) plus sex every week and 8 children to give birth to, could be more
-Women need to work too to look after her children, if you ask why can't the fathers do it, who will look after the kids?
-The men are naturally more stronger, more dominant so there will be fights which would pressure the woman.
Many reasons,
Secondly, how many women are Prophets. Interesting question.
Why does a woman need to be a Prophet to show equality? A Prophet is one that receives a message from God and spreads it. God picks the Prophets. Mary is a mother to a Prophet, 13 women are wives to a very important prophet. Also if a woman wants to spread Islam and share the message, she would have gotten ridiculed back in those times. Being a Prophet was a dangerous job. The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) endured so much abuse. He had so much abuse it is hard to imagine, yet he still carried on. A woman being more emotional, more chance of abuse, it would simply not work out. Plus it is God's choice. Was there any Prophets that were women in the Bible or the Torah? Nope.
The Prophet was an exception. As I already stated, God told the Prophet to marry 12/13 of these wives. Men now, cannot marry more than 4. As it states marry women of your choice, 2, 3 or 4, however if you cannot cope then only marry 1.
The reason why the Prophet (PBUH) married more than 4 wives was because nearly all were widows. The Prophet also married a woman who was 20 years older than him.
She was not groomed, the Prophet had 13 wives. Treated each one equal. Never forced anything upon anyone. He was not in the marriage for sex. God commanded for him to marry 12/13 wives as nearly all of them were widows as their husbands fought wars and got killed. Then the Prophet married all of them, not for sex or being a pedo, but to look after them and give them a way better life than before. Some even say she was 19 years old, not 9. We do not know exactly the age, people ponder. She was accused of adultery and the punishment for that is death. However she denied these accusations and the Prophet believed her and he backed her. So why would he do this if he was a pedo? You may say for sex, however he was not in it for the sex. It is so much more than that. And he would have killed her if he was in it for the sex because he still had 12 wives right?
Really, search up the marriage and his intentions, you would know a lot better
It is clear that you have no evidence for your claims, that her father wanted political power etc. I suggest you read an autobiography on her life, I suggest you watch videos on her marriage and her life. You can then see if the Prophet was a paedophile or not, shame on you for even thinking that. He provided for her, he never shouted at her, he never hit her, he never abused her, he never raped her, he took care of her, he never used her for power nor for sex. This is a misconception to say the least. Watch a few unbiased videos on the marriage.
Physical tests, mental tests etc. She was very mature for her age, she gave consent to marriage, she was a known for her intellectual capacity. And girls did menstruate then as well at age 9, which is why she got married.
Good few arguments, I envy how you word your points, some misconceptions however.
Also, men are not allowed to tap the face of a woman just in case she does get hurt.
Thats your standards tho. In Islam the legal age for marriage is not a set age. We do tests to see if they are mentally ready and physically ready. Yes there will be some cases where they aren't mentally nor physically ready at 16, so we have to wait till they are. 18,19,20,21 etc.
There are a number of factors, from context of the times to being physically and mentally ready.
Plus this incident does not oppress women, its a red herring. Women are not oppressed because they can get married when they are physically and mentally ready.
If you watched the video and I'm sure you did, the guy said even the enemies of the Prophet did not question this because this was a norm in society. And thinking changes when society changes. 500 years ago, girls were not even entitled to education in the West. This is working class girls. Now they are, norms of s society changes but you cannot expect for every age of society to reach your norm
Oh sorry I worded it wrong, silly me
Lemme challenge again
There is a YouTube video that I sent to barney, look at that
Read about Aisha. Read her lifestyle, how she acted, how she thought. And there is also a YouTube video which I linked to Barney. Watch that as well
The Holy War Critera is something which you may not have heard of
-Enemy has to attack first to go to war
-Innocents must not be killed
-Wildlife and the environment must not be harmed
These 3 things dismiss every quote that you can think of
Answer to the marriage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCZDOCZdw2s&t=52s
It does not instruct them to strike them as you think. The term strike means a simple tap as I have said. You cannot tap the face
It does not make him a pedo, a pedo is one that preys on little girls and wants sex from them. The Prophet did not just want sex from Aisha
To reassure it, he committed no sin
Again, who are you to decide the age of marriage?
and for 4:3, you misunderstood
Men are not allowed to cause pain to their wives
Men are not allowed to leave a mark
Men are not allowed to hit the face
How is this domestic abuse when men are not allowed to do these things?
A simple tap is all they can do, unless you want to say this is abuse?
And that is exactly why you should consult a Muslim, you did the right thing, let me clear it all up for you
The Prophet never endorsed any paedophilia thing, maybe you got that from the marriage with Aisha?
These are the points
-The Prophet married Aisha at 6 and consummated at 9. Why did he wait 3 years if he was a pedo?
-The context of times is very important. 1400 years ago, it was very common for girls to get married at a young age because when a girl hits puberty, they are considered more mature and an adult.
-If we look at the Prophets (SAW) life then we can understand he committed no sin. Why is it just 1 event that may seem a little shady?
-100 years ago in the UK, the legal age to marry was 12, imagine 1400 years ago
That is that sorted
Now the marrying underage girls part
Who are you to say that a girl is underage? A girl is more mature physically and mentally at the age of puberty. Why are you restricting it to the age of 16 or 18 or even 21. It is the context of the times my friend.
Plus the verse you were actually talking about, does not just give rules on women who have not completed the menstruation, but the women who have as well, no singling out.
Then we move onto 4:34
Men are not allowed to leave a mark on their wives, nor cause them pain nor hit the face. Now can you interpret the word 'strike' taking all these into context. It is just a simple tap.
There we go, all misconceptions out of the window, thanks for consulting a Muslim, proud to be of assistance
A non-Muslim can argue what he wants about Islam, can be true can be false.
This is why there are challenges set by many scholars,
Can you find a single contradiction in the Quran?
Can you find where the Quran advocates terrorism and oppression to women and so on?
Muslims know fully well that no one can find these, so the challenger can try but fail.
A non-Muslim can judge the religion, if it is not a fair judgement then Muslims can explain why it is not fair,
If it is a fair judgement, then that is fine
There has to be a definitive answer, Islam can be or not be the truth
If any non-Muslims wants to say why it is not the truth and give reasons then so be it, he can do so.
However a Muslim will always refute his claims and there is no agree to disagree, as there has to be an answer
They always run in the end
Right, so as you have not provided any evidence for your claims nor have you given your point of view on how the universe was created, you have not got my permission to talk to me. Once you provide that evidence and point of view then expect an answer.
I am asking you as you made the claim. The old saying 'whoever makes the claim you gotta provide the evidence' or your claim is invalid.
First of all, how does that correlate to my questions?
I am on earth for 1 reason only, and you already know that reason
Secondly
Please answer these questions
What could create the universe if it was not God following my criterium in my last message?
Who is under a bigger risk?
First of all, how does that correlate to my questions?
I am on earth for 1 reason only, and you already know that reason
Secondly
Please answer these questions
What could create the universe if it was not God following my criterium in my last message?
Who is under a bigger risk?
I am not Christian but a Muslim.
You never answered any of my points,
What could create the universe if it was not God following my criterium in my last message?
Who is under a bigger risk?
First of all, religion gives you hope. Religion is there for peace of mind, for a purpose in life. Atheism does not.
Besides, who has more to lose here
Me or you?
Lets say there is no God (I do not believe this but it is hypothetical), nothing would happen to me, I would die and that would be it.
Then lets say there is a God, and Islam was the truth. You would be in a sticky situation my friend,
We can also discount the theory that nothing created the universe as nothing does not exist.
A dependant entity cannot create the universe because it would be an infinite regress.
The entity that created the universe must have no beginning or else it would be dependant of time
This just discounts the theory of nothing creating the universe, the multiverse, any dependant thing that you can think of right now cannot create the universe.
It is illogical to say anything other than God created the universe.
Unless you can give me a sufficient answer, religion is the truth
The assassins I already went over. Very quickly, not following Islam, like ISIS, should be condemned
That is that out of the way
Then Khalid, you never gave me anything that he did which was a terrorist act. Remember the definitions, and you can give the terrorist acts that Khalid had committed.
Yh that video was just a general video. We were talking about guns etc and terrorism is a huge misconception that people have on Islam.
It is the same with oppression of women.
It is so simple, it is not the religion, only the people,
very key concept
You had 3 rounds with 10k characters each. You had the last round with 9000 characters left. I had the same amount of characters as you. I never said the only non-aggressive ones are authentic, I just said that terrorism is not supported. There was no response to self defence as whiteflame had already voted.
You need to accept it and be the bigger man
A lot of suicide bombers. However, this does not make sense.
How many school shootings would it take to blame the US. It would take a lot. However people are blaming the guns, rightly so
Think of the guns in this scenario as a red herring.
It is the same with Islam. Yes there are some verses that talk about war, however these are only in extreme circumstances. Peoples minds and influence on the scripture is the red herring in this situation, which is why groups like ISIS exist.
It is very canny actually. There is actually one thing in common between groups like ISIS and the islamophobes. They both think that Islam is a violent religion.
I would strongly encourage you to watch this video. It is very insightful and not that long, just less than 15 mins.
It could solve all that you are asking, so I am asking you to watch it and take it in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy9tNyp03M0
The religion of Islam has its laws. Of course when people do not follow its laws then it is not the fault of the religion, it is the fault of the person. So what else am I supposed to say? If my opponent brings something which is allowed in Islam and its Muslims follow it, then fair point. But if not, then of course I am going to say the person is not following its laws.
I will give you an example.
A man commits a murder in the name of the UK. He gets convicted. We have a debate about the UK. You bring up this incident and say this man killed in the name of the UK which makes the UK accountable. However the man did the deed so the man is accountable, and there is no need to investigate the UK because of this man.
I love your speech, so elegant, like a giraffe. I love your tone, so precious, like a pearl.
I want you to be vocal, let it all out and I love it.
Be who you want to be
#proud
#emotionalday
#mysonisallgrownup
#proudtobeamuslim
#lovedbyhumanity
#islamisthetruth
#gobacktokorea
#hooked
If you quote from the hadith, I will be more than happy to respond